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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:49 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Dunno why this

    "Won't make it to the frontline" crap is still be stated, History has shown Ukraine has no problems getting gear to the frontline despite the many claims said gear never will make it.

    Panzer 2000 is a very good system, If the russians know what's good for them they will not allow that many of those things to reach the frontline

    Like PD said it's a self-propelled gun

    The difference in characteristics will not affect much, it's like arguing about what ATGM is better. So one gun shoots faster and with a longer range, another is slower or slightly less accurate - but the gun which is supplied with ammo consistently will have the advantage by far in any case over the gun which can only fire half the time.
    And the battery that's organized and whose crew gets rest will outperform the adversary's battery even if their equipment is slightly more dated
    And the side with more batteries and more ammo for them will completely blow away the other side

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    Post  Regular Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:51 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Dunno why this

    "Won't make it to the frontline" crap is still be stated, History has shown Ukraine has no problems getting gear to the frontline despite the many claims said gear never will make it.

    Panzer 2000 is a very good system, If the russians know what's good for them they will not allow that many of those things to reach the frontline

    The problem is not Ukrainians putting into service, but German deliveries. Do they have a ready batch of 100 for sale or do these still have to be produced and delivered?

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Jul 28, 2022 6:12 pm

    But of course, they don't.
    The same applies to IRIS-T.

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    Post  Isos Thu Jul 28, 2022 6:24 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    walle83 wrote:Germany approves sale of 100 PzH 2000 self-propelled howitzers to Ukraine.

    https://defence-blog.com/berlin-approves-1-7-billion-sale-of-pzh-2000-howitzers-to-ukraine/?fbclid=IwAR0u3TXEXymLiLqi0qnycbF75iehehg9KmtM25FVVjvLTVCeqLiv68NlKKU
    https://ukranews.com/en/news/872074-german-government-approves-sale-of-100-pzh-2000-howitzers-to-ukraine-media

    [https://i.servimg.com/u/f98/19/92/92/35/62600210.jpg

    Sale?

    No gift?




    US gas not cheap it seems.

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Thu Jul 28, 2022 6:25 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Dunno why this

    "Won't make it to the frontline" crap is still be stated, History has shown Ukraine has no problems getting gear to the frontline despite the many claims said gear never will make it.

    Panzer 2000 is a very good system, If the russians know what's good for them they will not allow that many of those things to reach the frontline

    What history?

    Or do you have statistics available as to how many Ukrainian-destined weapon systems and munitions make it to the front-line versus how many are destroyed en-route? Because I sure haven't seen any one way or the other.

    M777s have made it in bulk, Himars etc of course if you wanna try and pull the stats card which is impossible as no one here would have that information.

    The statement was people HERE saying the weapons won't make it to the front despite the fact many many weapon systems have no problem is just a factually wrong statement
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Thu Jul 28, 2022 6:25 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Dunno why this

    "Won't make it to the frontline" crap is still be stated, History has shown Ukraine has no problems getting gear to the frontline despite the many claims said gear never will make it.

    Panzer 2000 is a very good system, If the russians know what's good for them they will not allow that many of those things to reach the frontline

    Like PD said it's a self-propelled gun

    The difference in characteristics will not affect much, it's like arguing about what ATGM is better. So one gun shoots faster and with a longer range, another is slower or slightly less accurate - but the gun which is supplied with ammo consistently will have the advantage by far in any case over the gun which can only fire half the time.
    And the battery that's organized and whose crew gets rest will outperform the adversary's battery even if their equipment is slightly more dated
    And the side with more batteries and more ammo for them will completely blow away the other side

    M777s have made it in bulk, Himars etc of course if you wanna try and pull the stats card which is impossible as no one here would have that information.

    The statement was people HERE saying the weapons won't make it to the front despite the fact many many weapon systems have no problem is just a factually wrong statement
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    Post  Isos Thu Jul 28, 2022 6:40 pm

    Those US/nato made weapons are used randomly for propaganda purpose. They clearly spent most of their time hidden in hangars and used sporadically.

    When used normally they get captured in mass NLAW/Javelin... or get destroyed Smerch, t-72, t-64...

    Main issue for them is munitions. Nato can't send enough ammo to sustain a conventional war. What they send is enough gor 1 day of normal fighting or 10 or so sporadic attacks, just look how any time on twitter they reported himars attacks, less than 20 which is pathetic. That's the same number as one salvo of russian smerch rockets but russian use them daily.

    Right now their main defence tactic is to throw as many soldiers to death as they can.

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    Post  flamming_python Thu Jul 28, 2022 6:47 pm

    Oof

    Vid in link
    https://t.me/mapsukraine/1143
    40 to 50 Ukrainian soldiers killed in 1 Russian airstrike because a woman working as cleaner at the facility told the Russians about their location. 😁

    https://t.me/mapsukraine/1145
    2 hiding Ukrops in the back of a car captured in severodonetsk.

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    Post  flamming_python Thu Jul 28, 2022 6:52 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Dunno why this

    "Won't make it to the frontline" crap is still be stated, History has shown Ukraine has no problems getting gear to the frontline despite the many claims said gear never will make it.

    Panzer 2000 is a very good system, If the russians know what's good for them they will not allow that many of those things to reach the frontline

    Like PD said it's a self-propelled gun

    The difference in characteristics will not affect much, it's like arguing about what ATGM is better. So one gun shoots faster and with a longer range, another is slower or slightly less accurate - but the gun which is supplied with ammo consistently will have the advantage by far in any case over the gun which can only fire half the time.
    And the battery that's organized and whose crew gets rest will outperform the adversary's battery even if their equipment is slightly more dated
    And the side with more batteries and more ammo for them will completely blow away the other side

    M777s have made it in bulk, Himars etc of course if you wanna try and pull the stats card which is impossible as no one here would have that information.

    The statement was people HERE saying the weapons won't make it to the front despite the fact many many weapon systems have no problem is just a factually wrong statement

    Generally speaking the further a weapon has to be from the 'front-line', the more chance it has of actually getting there. So the HIMARS systems are no surprise

    As for M777s; define bulk - how many made it out of how many sent? We know some have certainly made it through and took part in action. We have no idea however how much out of how many originally.

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    Post  lyle6 Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:16 pm

    The western gear and their crews got a proper viking send off to bandera in bulk. Just like their colleagues armed with soviet leftovers months earlier.

    Pzh 2k is an over-engineered Msta-S. Nothing more. It will share the same fate over the coming weeks, and then a new wunderwaffe that will totally turn the tide will be trotted out. Rinse and repeat until NATO is disarmed and Ukraine is no more.

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    Post  caveat emptor Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:40 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    M777s have made it in bulk, Himars etc of course if you wanna try and pull the stats card which is impossible as no one here would have that information.

    The statement was people HERE saying the weapons won't make it to the front despite the fact many many weapon systems have no problem is just a factually wrong statement
    I believe that problem is of other nature. Unless, they ship Bundeswehr's Pzh-2000, they will need about 5 years to fulfil whole order. Historically, annual production was about 20 pieces.


    Last edited by caveat emptor on Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  mnztr Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:42 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Dunno why this

    "Won't make it to the frontline" crap is still be stated, History has shown Ukraine has no problems getting gear to the frontline despite the many claims said gear never will make it.

    Panzer 2000 is a very good system, If the russians know what's good for them they will not allow that many of those things to reach the frontline

    Yes I agree, the fact that no major rail lines from the West seem to be disabled, and bridges are running just fine puzzles me. Perhaps this is the plan to disarm NATO? In any case interdiction has not been effective. They still have fuel and new weapons are arriving quite fast.

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    Post  mnztr Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:45 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Oof

    Vid in link
    https://t.me/mapsukraine/1143
    40 to 50 Ukrainian soldiers killed in 1 Russian airstrike because a woman working as cleaner at the facility told the Russians about their location. 😁

    https://t.me/mapsukraine/1145
    2 hiding Ukrops in the back of a car captured in severodonetsk.

    Man I hope that lady got away before the caught her.

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    Post  caveat emptor Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:59 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    Yes I agree, the fact that no major rail lines from the West seem to be disabled, and bridges are running just fine puzzles me.  Perhaps this is the plan to disarm NATO? In any case interdiction has not been effective. They still have fuel and new weapons are arriving quite fast.
    They never really tried to shut down Kremenchug refinery. Unless, they plan to take that area, refinery can be destroyed once and for all simply by hitting distillation columns.
    As for the bridges, i can understand only if they plan to take the whole country. Even then, if Ukrainians see that they will lose control over them, they will blow them up.


    Last edited by caveat emptor on Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:20 pm

    Looks like Wagner or Chechens just castrated a Ukrainian POW

    I wouldn't have done it even if they did it to some of Russian POW

    Unless they knew the mf was one of the ones who did it , then **** him

    But pretty gruesome shit

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    Post  Isos Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:21 pm

    Captured ukrainian boat will particopate to the naval parade.


    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 27 Fywqts10

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    Post  Broski Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:37 pm

    Lancet drones at work

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    Post  Broski Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:55 pm

    Former Russian president presents future map of Ukraine

    Medvedev offers Kiev a visual on its worst case scenario

    Ukraine is more likely to be reduced to Kiev and its surroundings than to ever re-encompass Crimea and the Donbass republics, former Russian president Dmitry Medvedev said on his Telegram channel on Wednesday.

    The one-time president and long-time prime minister who now heads the national security council also posted two maps helpfully illustrating his argument.

    The first map showed Ukraine in borders prior to the US-backed coup in 2014, including Crimea and the two eastern regions of Donetsk and Lugansk. A month after the militants backed by Washington seized power in Kiev, Crimea voted to rejoin Russia, while the two Donbass regions declared independence.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 27 62e183f1203027365e1c01d8
    “In the mind of the president of Ukraine, damaged by psychotropic substances, this is what the map of his country’s bright future will look like,” Medvedev wrote on Telegram.

    “Western analysts believe it will look like this, actually,” he said, posting a second map. On it, “Ukraine” is reduced to Kiev and its surroundings. Seven regions in the West have been annexed by Poland, and three in the southwest by Hungary and Romania, respectively.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 27 62e183f1203027365e1c01d9
    Everything else is marked “Russia.”

    He did not specify which Western experts may have envisioned such a partition.

    The Ukrainian government has repeatedly rejected any possibility of territorial concessions, insisting that Kiev’s objectives were a “capitulation” of Russia and “reintegration” of Donbass and Crimea.

    Medvedev served as president of Russia between 2008 and 2012, and then as prime minister until 2020, when he was put in charge of the national security council. Over the course of the conflict in Ukraine, he has made a name for himself with colorful Telegram posts. Just this month, he warned Kiev of “Judgment Day” if they attacked Crimea and offered a list of “Russian sins,” followed up by those of the West.

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:13 pm

    It looks like a Buryat that castrated that Ukrainian

    You know maybe I have lost humanity watching this war

    I don't feel bad for him

    This whole state built its ideology on anti Russian, yelling destroy Russians,  bombing Russians,  

    All I can say is, if you are a hohol fighting, don't get caught

    Because these guys from Akhmat and Buryat, are savage

    And they saw what was done early on, and it will be done worse unto these nazi

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    Post  kvs Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:48 pm

    crod wrote:According to Western news outlets that are quoting uki officials, the Kherson counter is underway.
    Have they the manpower and firepower for this? How well have the Russians dug in there?

    lol1 lol1 lol1

    The British MOD is reporting three pontoon bridges being deployed by Kiev regime forces as fresh news when they and the
    soldiers setting them up have already been obliterated.

    The NATzO coverage of this war would make Orwell cringe. This includes the total lack of coverage of the Donetsk rout
    and the fixation on some bridge that if it were taken out would still leave the vastly more important railway bridge intact
    since the Ukr forces can't reach it with their precious "game changer" HIMARS.

    The counter-offensive is a propaganda metaverse entity.



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    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:07 pm

    Yeah they're saying that they cut off Russian troops

    Literally the only thing that happened was they put a hole on the Antonovsky bridge

    But in NATO speak, the counteroffensive began, and Russians were cutoff lmao

    This whole thing is a flat out invention , but they've done it before, they create reality I guess

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    Post  Hole Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:21 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 27 Fyxst410


    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 27 26a1Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 27 2694 #AFU confirmed in Evening Report start of an Allied offensive in whole #Donetsk dir.Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 27 26a1
    Infrastructure, positions, equipment, manpower got destroyed!
    Allies have success at #Avdeevka, Krasnogorsk, Pesok & Marinka. Some AFU positions & fortifications occupied!
    By @operativsvo

    From Slavyangrad

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    Post  Hole Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:23 pm


    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 27 26a1Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 27 2694 #Allies strike #Ostroe village with Rocket ArtilleryRussian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 27 26a1
    which is in the rear area of the #Avdiivka grouping. Preliminarily there is a large number of #AFU artillery, including those of Western origin.
    By @operativsvo



    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 27 Fyxh-p10

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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:57 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:Looks like Wagner or Chechens just castrated a Ukrainian POW
    I wouldn't have done it even if they did it to some of Russian POW
    Unless they knew the mf was one of the ones who did it , then **** him
    But pretty gruesome shit

    Looking forward to outrage... and copium when old torture videos of Russian POWs get posted in response

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    Post  11E Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:11 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    It's an SPG

    It will be good at surviving just as any other SPG so far

    As for shooting nobody argues it ain't good

    They took out the AFSIS system (Artillery Fire Support Information System) of the Dutch PzH2000s, so basically it is indeed a basic Self-propelled gun with no fancy bells and whistles. I assume the Germans did the same to prevent their information system falling in the hands of Russia.

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