Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+68
xeno
Dr.Snufflebug
Serberus
walle83
crod
Broski
ludovicense
11E
ALAMO
Azi
Sprut-B
psg
PhSt
Krepost
Scorpius
OminousSpudd
franco
Singular_Transform
billybatts91
calripson
pavi
ATLASCUB
zorobabel
owais.usmani
Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E
DerWolf
d_taddei2
Ned86
Odin of Ossetia
Stealthflanker
Sujoy
Airbornewolf
Backman
sepheronx
mnztr
SolidarityWithRussia
VARGR198
Erk
thegopnik
Arrow
SeigSoloyvov
nomadski
LMFS
limb
dionis
Firebird
ucmvulcan
AlfaT8
TMA1
GunshipDemocracy
Werewolf
Isos
PapaDragon
Ispan
Hole
Regular
ArgentinaGuard
Belisarius
Mir
Kiko
caveat emptor
Big_Gazza
GarryB
Arkanghelsk
lyle6
JohninMK
flamming_python
kvs
72 posters

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 14965
    Points : 15102
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Turdope's Kanada

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  kvs Sun Jul 24, 2022 1:18 pm

    lyle6 wrote:
    Sujoy wrote:Modularized pods seems to be the way forward for any modern multiple-launch rocket system (MLRS).
    Pods are the poor man's answer to having dedicated vehicles for each munition weight class. And like most el cheapo solutions they are false economy: a heavy duty truck fitted with sophisticated fire direction capabilities for long range BM is supposed to moonlight as an old Ural firing unguided Grad rockets.  Rolling Eyes  

    The more I think about it the less the concept makes sense. The supposed allure of self-reloadable MLRS like M270 is that they can load pods from the ground without assistance. Yeah, but what about the part where you're just making up yet another security headache - you now need to guard a few pods from attack. At least with a transloader the launcher merely has to meet them halfway, 10 minutes reload and after you both go on your merry way.

    Western weapons are infested with gimmickry. The huckster culture of primarily the US which has permeated into the Europe as well.
    This gimmickry clearly dominates the minds of western fanbois who think that every gimmick is a game changer and proves innate
    superiority over the primitive enemy.

    GarryB, Werewolf, Big_Gazza, Sprut-B, Hole, lyle6, Broski and Arkanghelsk like this post

    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov


    Posts : 3674
    Points : 3654
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Jul 24, 2022 1:21 pm

    kvs wrote:
    lyle6 wrote:
    Sujoy wrote:Modularized pods seems to be the way forward for any modern multiple-launch rocket system (MLRS).
    Pods are the poor man's answer to having dedicated vehicles for each munition weight class. And like most el cheapo solutions they are false economy: a heavy duty truck fitted with sophisticated fire direction capabilities for long range BM is supposed to moonlight as an old Ural firing unguided Grad rockets.  Rolling Eyes  

    The more I think about it the less the concept makes sense. The supposed allure of self-reloadable MLRS like M270 is that they can load pods from the ground without assistance. Yeah, but what about the part where you're just making up yet another security headache - you now need to guard a few pods from attack. At least with a transloader the launcher merely has to meet them halfway, 10 minutes reload and after you both go on your merry way.

    Western weapons are infested with gimmickry.   The huckster culture of primarily the US which has permeated into the Europe as well.
    This gimmickry clearly dominates the minds of western fanbois who think that every gimmick is a game changer and proves innate
    superiority over the primitive enemy.  

    Merely proves you don't understand anything about logistics or operational cost.

    The ability to change pods thus able to change armaments and only require one vehicles to use them greatly reduces all the spare parts and such you need when operating various vehicles and makes production a whole gell of a lot easier.

    Clueless fanboys alright, but that's you
    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3074
    Points : 3076
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Mir Sun Jul 24, 2022 1:35 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Yes and no.

    Ukraine will destroy them anyways if the russians get to close, and Ukraine is using these bridges to send supplies over, if the bridges are going to be blown up anyways you may has well slow supplies down for your enemy by destroying them, Russia isn't capturing those bridges in one piece

    Ukraine failed to destroy this bridge and they may struggle to destroy any of these bridges in future - but we'll see.

    They haven't even tried to destroy them because there is no need to as of now, why are you making false accusations.

    This is normally the moment when any discussion with you becomes pointless - when you falsely accuse people...whilst you are actually the guilty party!
    The Antonovskiy Bridge on the Dnepr was attacked by Ukraine. This is the bridge I am talking about - and they failed to destroy it.

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, limb, Broski and Arkanghelsk like this post

    d_taddei2
    d_taddei2


    Posts : 2881
    Points : 3055
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland Alba

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  d_taddei2 Sun Jul 24, 2022 1:48 pm

    VARGR198 wrote:

    Moldova knows what happens when you attack Russian peacekeepers - Georgian war which lasted 12 days, but in this scenario Moldova will lose within 2 days. Moldova won't be attacking any Russian peacekeepers unless it feels suicidal.

    GarryB, psg, Big_Gazza, kvs, zardof, Sprut-B, Hole and like this post

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 13207
    Points : 13249
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  PapaDragon Sun Jul 24, 2022 2:29 pm

    kvs wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:[i]Russia Informs Turkey It Had "Nothing To Do" With Odessa Port Attack
    ...
    Considering the target that was destroyed it is obvious that Russia had nothing to do with this incident. NATzO mass media consumers
    will lap up whatever intellectual excrement is given to them....

    Since they got blamed for it they might as well take out these silos for real

    No need for the whole song and dance routine anymore




    GarryB, owais.usmani, Broski and Arkanghelsk like this post

    Singular_Transform
    Singular_Transform


    Posts : 1032
    Points : 1014
    Join date : 2016-11-13

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Singular_Transform Sun Jul 24, 2022 3:12 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Merely proves you don't understand anything about logistics or operational cost.

    The ability to change pods thus able to change armaments and only require one vehicles to use them greatly reduces all the spare parts and such you need when operating various vehicles and makes production a whole gell of a lot easier.

    Clueless fanboys alright, but that's you

    All of this boil down to the cost components.

    From the same ammount of money, includign sustainment and operation cost, what system could give the same capability for less?
    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 8988
    Points : 9050
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  flamming_python Sun Jul 24, 2022 3:28 pm

    Mir wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Yes and no.

    Ukraine will destroy them anyways if the russians get to close, and Ukraine is using these bridges to send supplies over, if the bridges are going to be blown up anyways you may has well slow supplies down for your enemy by destroying them, Russia isn't capturing those bridges in one piece

    Ukraine failed to destroy this bridge and they may struggle to destroy any of these bridges in future - but we'll see.

    All this hoo-haa about the HIMARS just for a few potholes on Antonovsky bridge that can be repaired in a day's work

    And some of ya'll acted like the sky was falling when the Ukraine started using this weapons system and Arestovich was promising an offensive in Kherson.

    sepheronx, GarryB, d_taddei2, PapaDragon, Sprut-B, Hole, Mir and like this post

    caveat emptor
    caveat emptor


    Posts : 1776
    Points : 1776
    Join date : 2022-02-02
    Location : Murrica

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  caveat emptor Sun Jul 24, 2022 3:30 pm

    Mir wrote:

    This is normally the moment when any discussion with you becomes pointless - when you falsely accuse people...whilst you are actually the guilty party!
    The Antonovskiy Bridge on the Dnepr was attacked by Ukraine. This is the bridge I am talking about - and they failed to destroy it.

    He has a point though. These bridges will be destroyed if Ukrainians see that they will lose control over them. They destroyed dozens of bridges during withdrawal.
    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov


    Posts : 3674
    Points : 3654
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Jul 24, 2022 3:35 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Yes and no.

    Ukraine will destroy them anyways if the russians get to close, and Ukraine is using these bridges to send supplies over, if the bridges are going to be blown up anyways you may has well slow supplies down for your enemy by destroying them, Russia isn't capturing those bridges in one piece

    Ukraine failed to destroy this bridge and they may struggle to destroy any of these bridges in future - but we'll see.

    All this hoo-haa about the HIMARS just for a few potholes on Antonovsky bridge that can be repaired in a day's work

    And some of ya'll acted like the sky was falling when the Ukraine started using this weapons system and Arestovich was promising an offensive in Kherson.

    I thought we where referring to the bridges else were the only reason Ukraine failed to total that particular bridge is because the russians moved to fast and gave them no time to plant charges etc.

    when destroying large bridges like these you need to destroy them at the base and Ukraine will have more then enough time to rig the explosives for this purpose

    Thats not going to happen again, there will be no surprise. Ukraine will total any bridge Russia comes close to, so acting like Ukraine cannot destroy them is moronic as they have destroyed many many bridges already and trying to this one bridge has an example of why they can't is also stupid, it was a unique circumstance at the start of the war.
    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 8988
    Points : 9050
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  flamming_python Sun Jul 24, 2022 3:41 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Yes and no.

    Ukraine will destroy them anyways if the russians get to close, and Ukraine is using these bridges to send supplies over, if the bridges are going to be blown up anyways you may has well slow supplies down for your enemy by destroying them, Russia isn't capturing those bridges in one piece

    Ukraine failed to destroy this bridge and they may struggle to destroy any of these bridges in future - but we'll see.

    All this hoo-haa about the HIMARS just for a few potholes on Antonovsky bridge that can be repaired in a day's work

    And some of ya'll acted like the sky was falling when the Ukraine started using this weapons system and Arestovich was promising an offensive in Kherson.

    I thought we where referring to the bridges else were the only reason Ukraine failed to total that particular bridge is because the russians moved to fast and gave them no time to plant charges etc.

    when destroying large bridges like these you need to destroy them at the base and Ukraine will have more then enough time to rig the explosives for this purpose

    Thats not going to happen again, there will be no surprise. Ukraine will total any bridge Russia comes close to, so acting like Ukraine cannot destroy them is moronic as they have destroyed many many bridges already and trying to this one bridge has an example of why they can't is also stupid, it was a unique circumstance at the start of the war.

    I'm talking about the threat of using the HIMARS systems to destroy the bridge in Kherson region and cut the Russian group of forces there from resupply, ripe for an encirclement operation by the million-man army Kiev is getting ready to introduce in theatre
    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov


    Posts : 3674
    Points : 3654
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Jul 24, 2022 3:50 pm

    I mean Himmers could cause a collapse of a small portion if it hits the same area over and over.

    As you saw from the images Himmer is highly accurate (etc all the rockets hit within feet of each other) it has good enough range to fire, move and rinse and repeat.

    So in Theory Himmers could damage the bridge enough to prevent large scale support from crossing.

    Now will that happen? Unlikely.
    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 3532
    Points : 3538
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Arkanghelsk Sun Jul 24, 2022 3:55 pm

    The Russian Ministry of Defense has confirmed striking targets in the major Ukrainian port of Odessa on Saturday, revealing that its missiles hit military infrastructure and arms stockpiles.

    “In the seaport of Odessa, on the territory of a shipyard, a docked Ukrainian warship and a warehouse of Harpoon anti-ship missiles, supplied by the US to the Kiev regime, have been destroyed by sea-based high-precision long-range missiles,” the ministry said on Sunday.

    GarryB and d_taddei2 like this post

    Erk
    Erk


    Posts : 933
    Points : 946
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Empire of Lies

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Erk Sun Jul 24, 2022 3:57 pm

    Hole wrote:
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Fyzfdb10
    thumbsup

    How far away from the grain storage was the Russian missile strike?
    It looks rather close on that map, but there is no scale to work from.
    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 11236
    Points : 11206
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Isos Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:00 pm

    I thought we where referring to the bridges else were the only reason Ukraine failed to total that particular bridge is because the russians moved to fast and gave them no time to plant charges etc.

    Planting bombs around a bridge take few minutes frankly. They had all the time they needed. They probably though they could do some counter offensive and retake territories.

    Anyway Russia has a lot of experience creating pantoon bridges now so even if they destroy them that won't stop russian moving forwards.

    sepheronx, GarryB, d_taddei2 and Belisarius like this post

    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov


    Posts : 3674
    Points : 3654
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:02 pm

    Isos wrote:
    I thought we where referring to the bridges else were the only reason Ukraine failed to total that particular bridge is because the russians moved to fast and gave them no time to plant charges etc.

    Planting bombs around a bridge take few minutes frankly. They had all the time they needed. They probably though they could do some counter offensive and retake territories.

    Anyway Russia has a lot of experience creating pantoon bridges now so even if they destroy them that won't stop russian moving forwards.

    Arm chair experts yo~

    Depends on the bridge...how much explosives you need. etc it will not take a few minutes, I have blown bridges.
    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 3532
    Points : 3538
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Arkanghelsk Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:03 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:

    Merely proves you don't understand anything about logistics or operational cost.

    The ability to change pods thus able to change armaments and only require one vehicles to use them greatly reduces all the spare parts and such you need when operating various vehicles and makes production a whole gell of a lot easier.

    Clueless fanboys alright, but that's you

    You don't want to compromise for a system which is already cheap and able to bring mass fire on the enemy

    For example, in designing 1 vehicle you compromise on size of ballistic missile, as well as carrying capacity of rockets

    What you end up getting is a half assed solution, unable to deliver good salvo on Rockets, and able to deliver small and short ranged ballistic missiles

    It is preferable to have a separate vehicle to carry a ballistic missile like Iskander or Tochka U , and to allow that crew to have a separate mission, namely targets which are hardened or far from the front

    While regular MLRS truck focuses on counterbattery and saturation fire on a frontline or near frontline target

    There's no need to compromise when these systems should have a segregated mission

    HIMARS carries 6 - 227mm rockets or 1 ATACMS 300km missile

    I'd rather keep my 12 salvo Uragan or Tornado, and my 2 round Iskander with 500km capability, and kalibr winged variant for different strike mission

    On Tornado launcher pods are included, but as a reload solution, not to have rockets and ballistic missiles crammed onto 1 platform

    So from an efficiency standpoint pods make sense, but not from reducing the types of vehicles standpoint

    You still want a dedicated ballistic missile platform

    GarryB, kvs, Hole and Belisarius like this post

    Walther von Oldenburg dislikes this post

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 11236
    Points : 11206
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Isos Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:09 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    I thought we where referring to the bridges else were the only reason Ukraine failed to total that particular bridge is because the russians moved to fast and gave them no time to plant charges etc.

    Planting bombs around a bridge take few minutes frankly. They had all the time they needed. They probably though they could do some counter offensive and retake territories.

    Anyway Russia has a lot of experience creating pantoon bridges now so even if they destroy them that won't stop russian moving forwards.

    Arm chair experts yo~

    Depends on the bridge...how much explosives you need. etc it will not take a few minutes, I have blown bridges.

    They can easily just pack 125mm shells around the base or on one portion to create a big hole and at least damage it to make too dangerous for tanks to drive on.

    C4 should also be available in good quantity.
    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3074
    Points : 3076
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Mir Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:11 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:
    Mir wrote:

    This is normally the moment when any discussion with you becomes pointless - when you falsely accuse people...whilst you are actually the guilty party!
    The Antonovskiy Bridge on the Dnepr was attacked by Ukraine. This is the bridge I am talking about - and they failed to destroy it.

    He has a point though. These bridges will be destroyed if Ukrainians see that they will lose control over them. They destroyed dozens of bridges during withdrawal.

    For most part they destroyed the bridges around cities and villages --- in order to stop civilians from fleeing.

    GarryB likes this post

    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3074
    Points : 3076
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Mir Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:22 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:

    I thought we where referring to the bridges else were the only reason Ukraine failed to total that particular bridge is because the russians moved to fast and gave them no time to plant charges etc.

    when destroying large bridges like these you need to destroy them at the base and Ukraine will have more then enough time to rig the explosives for this purpose

    Thats not going to happen again, there will be no surprise. Ukraine will total any bridge Russia comes close to, so acting like Ukraine cannot destroy them is moronic as they have destroyed many many bridges already and trying to this one bridge has an example of why they can't is also stupid, it was a unique circumstance at the start of the war.

    By the time the Russians will get near the bridges on the Dnepr in the central and northern parts, the Ukrs will have no time to think about destroying these bridges. All they will think about is dodging Russian artillery and air strikes whilst running. Laughing

    The best they could do in the south was long range HIMARS attacks - that failed.

    GarryB, d_taddei2, Hole, Broski, Arkanghelsk and Belisarius like this post

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 10371
    Points : 10351
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 47
    Location : Scholzistan

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Hole Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:23 pm

    Mir wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Yes and no.

    Ukraine will destroy them anyways if the russians get to close, and Ukraine is using these bridges to send supplies over, if the bridges are going to be blown up anyways you may has well slow supplies down for your enemy by destroying them, Russia isn't capturing those bridges in one piece

    Ukraine failed to destroy this bridge and they may struggle to destroy any of these bridges in future - but we'll see.

    They haven't even tried to destroy them because there is no need to as of now, why are you making false accusations.

    This is normally the moment when any discussion with you becomes pointless - when you falsely accuse people...whilst you are actually the guilty party!
    The Antonovskiy Bridge on the Dnepr was attacked by Ukraine. This is the bridge I am talking about - and they failed to destroy it.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 464010
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 464110
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 464210
    russia thumbsup
    I guess this is some other (smaller) bridge in the area which was also lightly damaged.

    GarryB, d_taddei2, kvs, PapaDragon, Sprut-B, Mir, Broski and like this post

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 10371
    Points : 10351
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 47
    Location : Scholzistan

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Hole Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:29 pm

    Erk wrote:
    Hole wrote:
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Fyzfdb10
    thumbsup

    How far away from the grain storage was the Russian missile strike?
    It looks rather close on that map, but there is no scale to work from.
    Roughly 1km
    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov


    Posts : 3674
    Points : 3654
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:29 pm

    @Ark

    Ballistic missiles and MLRs systems are two DIFFERENT THINGS, this entire rant of yours was completely pointless dude.

    I was comment on the post about MLRs not BML systems.

    Geez before you get triggered to do some defensive post think first
    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3074
    Points : 3076
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Mir Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:31 pm

    Hole wrote:
    I guess this is some other (smaller) bridge in the area which was also lightly damaged.

    Laughing Laughing Laughing

    Well this proves that the Russians are going places with this bridge Laughing
    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 14965
    Points : 15102
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Turdope's Kanada

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  kvs Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:32 pm

    Hole wrote:
    Roughly 1km

    Oh, then it falls within the crummy Russian missile CEP.

    lol1 lol1 lol1

    Mir likes this post

    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3074
    Points : 3076
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Mir Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:36 pm

    Hole wrote:
    Roughly 1km

    Unlike the NATzo high precision weapons that normally cause a lot of "collateral damage" - the Russian one's are HIGH PRECISION!

    GarryB, kvs and Urluber like this post


    Sponsored content


    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:49 pm