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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16

    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat May 21, 2022 6:29 am

    dionis wrote:
    Some dip-shit Reuters plonker wrote:The invasion of Ukraine has illustrated the limits of Russia's post-Soviet conventional armed forces, though Putin says the "special military operation" is going to plan.

    This is why the collective west is drowning in its own bile. Russia is only using some ~10% of its regular forces and they are steadily demolishing a NATO-trained and supported Ukraine, but this prostitute-scribbler tries to paint the campaign as a failure or proof of "weakness"  Suspect   The complete refusal of the Empires fart-sniffers to recognise the reality around them will lead them to over-extend and collapse.

    Exciting days indeed Laughing

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    Stealthflanker
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    Post  Stealthflanker Sat May 21, 2022 6:33 am

    https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-russia-claims-full-control-of-mariupol-steel-plant-as-it-happened/a-61871702

    Important bits :

    "Zelenskyy also said that Ukraine lost many pilots of helicopters supplying the Mariupol garrison. "A very large number of people died, our pilots. Unfortunately. Absolutely heroic people who knew that it was difficult, that it was almost impossible to reach Azovstal, bring medicine, food, water, pick up the wounded," he said."

    Some high toll there i guess. Those trolls calling Russian air defense dont work simply disrespecting the bravery of these pilots.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Sat May 21, 2022 6:50 am

    How many helicopters and planes were shot down over the course of the Azovstal battle?

    I recall several helicopters for sure, at least 3 or 4
    Stealthflanker
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    Post  Stealthflanker Sat May 21, 2022 7:09 am

    i would guess many more but.. unfortunately i cannot really say. haven't really follow the MoD briefing.
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    Post  Podlodka77 Sat May 21, 2022 7:47 am

    News from Pentagram

    TASS; Military operation in Ukraine
    May 21, 02:36

    The Pentagon did not confirm information about plans to transfer Patriot air defense systems to Kiev

    No information about the transfer of anti-aircraft missile systems was found on the website of the Ministry of Defense and in the texts of speeches by its officials


    WASHINGTON, May 21st. /TASS/. The US Department of Defense on Friday did not confirm information about the planned transfer of US Patriot anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM) to Kiev as part of a bill approved by Congress on the allocation of additional assistance to Ukraine in the amount of $40.1 billion.

    "We do not have any additional information other than what is available in the transcripts of high-ranking representatives of the Ministry of Defense and the press secretary of the Pentagon on the website [of the ministry] (https://www.defense.gov/) the press service of the defense department said in response to a corresponding request. TASS correspondent. On the website of the Ministry of Defense and in the texts of speeches of its officials, information about the transfer of air defense systems to Kiev was not found.

    Earlier, The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/) reported that the initiative, approved by US lawmakers, "provides $20 billion in military assistance expected to fund the transfer of advanced weapons systems such as Patriot air defense systems and long-range artillery."

    Additional funding for the allocation of assistance to Ukraine was requested earlier from Congress by US President Joe Biden. Initially, he proposed to allocate another $33 billion to support Kiev, but later this amount increased in Congress to $40.1 billion. The head of state is expected to sign a law on the allocation of assistance in the near future. The document as a whole provides for the allocation of funds for military, economic and humanitarian assistance to Kiev.

    https://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/14690595






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    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Sat May 21, 2022 8:32 am

    Lol. The Patriot. They would need to send mercenaries to operate the system. And it would likely be as effective as it is against the Houthis. You can tell how reliable even the US allies think their air defense systems are with Germany now buying air defense (Arrow 3) from Israel.

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Sat May 21, 2022 9:26 am

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 34 FTQ67iPXsAIda2M?format=jpg&name=large
    Der UkroCoomer. This man single-handedly provided the protein requirements of the entire Azovstal contingent of 2400 souls but at a terrible price...

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    Post  ALAMO Sat May 21, 2022 9:26 am

    lancelot wrote:Lol. The Patriot. They would need to send mercenaries to operate the system. And it would likely be as effective as it is against the Houthis. You can tell how reliable even the US allies think their air defense systems are with Germany now buying air defense (Arrow 3) from Israel.

    Ukraine had more systems than the whole USA before the shit started.
    Delivery of MIM-104 will be nothing more than nice exercises for VKS....

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    Serberus
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    Post  Serberus Sat May 21, 2022 10:02 am

    lyle6 wrote:Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 34 FTQ67iPXsAIda2M?format=jpg&name=large
    Der UkroCoomer. This man single-handedly provided the protein requirements of the entire Azovstal contingent of 2400 souls but at a terrible price...

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 34 74ff6410

    ————————

    https://t.me/swodki/100230

    “Earlier, David Kasatkin offered to cut off the head of Ramzan Kadyrov's mother and abuse his children. Now we will send this information to the commanders from the Chechen Republic, you will talk to them personally.”

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 34 276ca610

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    Tolstoy
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    Post  Tolstoy Sat May 21, 2022 10:17 am

    GarryB wrote:The only extended range round I have read about is the 180km range extended range guided round which looks like a rather fat APFSDS round containing HE.
    Which round is this?

    Ideally they should design 155mm rounds that can be used by both the 2S19 Msta and modernized 2A36 Giatsint-B that should also be 155 mm.

    2S19 is any case being replaced with the 155mm 2S-35 Koalitsiya-SV.

    Makes sense to have self propelled howitzers and towed howitzers that both use the same 155mm round.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sat May 21, 2022 10:50 am

    Tolstoy wrote:
    GarryB wrote:The only extended range round I have read about is the 180km range extended range guided round which looks like a rather fat APFSDS round containing HE.
    Which round is this?

    Ideally they should design 155mm rounds that can be used by both the 2S19 Msta and modernized 2A36 Giatsint-B that should also be 155 mm.

    2S19 is any case being replaced with the 155mm 2S-35 Koalitsiya-SV.

    Makes sense to have self propelled howitzers and towed howitzers that both use the same 155mm round.

    155mm ?????

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sat May 21, 2022 10:52 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:How many helicopters and planes were shot down over the course of the Azovstal battle?

    I recall several helicopters for sure, at least 3 or 4

    From memory it was 8, only 2 of which at the beginning made it through safely.
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    Post  kvs Sat May 21, 2022 10:53 am

    @LMFS

    It was Medhurst (a Syrian) in a live stream with Ritter. Ritter was going on about how Kiev had developed strategic depth because
    Russia did not roll over Ukraine fast enough.

    1) NATzO spent 8 years preparing its Kiev proxies for war. But now we will have a "game changer" because of some training outside
    of Ukria in Poland and Romania. WTF is this BS inference?

    2) Recall the panicking about humanitarian crisis before Russia pulled back from around Kiev. Funny how this crisis went away. The
    relevant detail is that Russia is not deploying 2 million soldiers and taking up the role of nanny for Ukria.

    3) Gonzalo Lira is correct in his recent video on Ritter. Ritter is spouting Atlantic Monthly drivel and is no longer credible. Ritter can
    be very smart and knowledgeable about military affairs, but what he says still determines his credibility. I will attribute Ritter's flip flop
    to the information terror climate in NATzO. If people want to earn money to eat, then they have to toe the line.

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    Post  nero Sat May 21, 2022 11:42 am

    All of these pseudo analysts you see/read online are worthless.

    Review their "predictions" by going back 1-2 mo. and you'll understand why.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat May 21, 2022 12:42 pm

    My criticism from before 2014 has been this.
    Russia tries to parry the punches, til its worn out. But doesn't punch the aggressor itself.
    Thats sometimes akin to punching a knife rather than a knifer.

    Previously Russia was in no position to take on the entire west.... this is not just the US... this is the entire west which still controls most international organisations and commerce...

    Russia letting the west continue to punch but rather than just absorbing the blows it has been turning the blows back on the west... the west lost a lot of money over the years of all their sanctions... they have lost a lot of income from selling food and other things to Russia and now they face Russian companies that replaced EU companies in the Russian markets in international trade now too and the value of the ruble gives them a huge economic advantage.

    The west will counter with bullying and threats, but the rest of the world are not stupid... how long will they support corrupt and broken America?

    With 780bases around the World, there is no shortage of targets... and enemies of America to arm/"help in the battle for liberation from Western imperialism".
    But does anyone have an idea what preferred tactics might be?

    When countries stop accepting US dollars for anything how are they going to afford that number of bases... let alone all the bribes needed to keep the gears moving...

    With a plus 30 trillion debt and spending even more on their military and helping the Ukraine they are going to have to start balancing their books... it might create a civil war because their goons in Kiev will get paid but social programmes and education and health resources in the US are going to start failing with their funding cut to the bone.

    home ported military ships are NOT currently being allowed through.

    You can't take the leap from home ported military ships aer not going through to prove they are not allowed to go through... there is an obvious difference.

    Bush asked Zelensky to kill as many Russians possible.

    Hahaha... the man who said his own invasion of Iraq was a war crime...

    Then he remembered to blame Putin.

    I dont think that Polish elites are that stupid to get their hand between Russia and its Ukraine.

    Hope they are... do Poland a favour and hit a HQ with their most rabid anti Russian politicians with a missile would be hilarious... they could blame old maps like the yanks did when they murdered Chinese diplomats in Serbia.

    Easy to spot the ghost of kiev. Its Stuka siren gives him away.

    Yeah, that and also the cartoonist that draws him uses colours that are way too bright to be realistic.... Twisted Evil

    Since when can "Ukraine" move troops safely?

    It is a special material camouflage called a body bag...

    New advanced lightweight all-terrain wheeled transport system delivered by the west, pricetag: around 500.000$ without extras

    You laugh but a wheel barrow or shopping trolley is a great way of carrying around rather more than you could normally carry... water, ammo, food, fuel etc etc... Nice big all terrain wheels on that wheelbarrow... wont be an accident...

    You could stack a lot of PKP ammo or 30mm grenades on that wheel barrow...

    Russian troops are often identified by the letter “Z” on their vehicles or uniforms. We can thus call them the “Zees”

    Those opposed to the Russians have shunned and “canceled” the letter “Z” itself. We can thus refer to them as the "Not-Zees"

    Except in the country that invented the English language and many of its former colonies call the letter Zed, so that would be Zeds and Not Zeds...

    A strong currency will definitely benefit the man on the street and it will be good for imports as well.

    Not at all... making imports cheaper is bad for production in Russia, and makes Russian exports less competitive...

    Getting Rubles for oil and gas exports will be very beneficial for the economy as a whole.

    Eliminating Euros and US dollars from Russian trade is beneficial to the world outside the west.

    This clown is really stupid. Who talked about this weapon being a turning point? Russia needs no Wunderwaffen, she has Iskanders, Kinzhals and Kalibers.

    Worse than that... Russia has had experience against drones in Syria, but in the Ukraine the number of drones provided to the enemy is multiplied enormously, so this is very much an escalation in the threat of drones for Russia and they are dealing with that escalation with jammers and lasers and all sorts of other methods of dealing with drone threats... can the west claim they are ready to fight an enemy well supplied with drones and air defence systems you can disconnect from an IADS but have to take out one by one?

    I honestly think they would rapidly run out of weapons in every regard... not to mention their vulnerable supply lines...

    So what's more likely, Ukrainians are good at hiding aircraft, or Russians suck at bombing airports?

    Dispersing aircraft is quick and easy. It is not like they are taking off and attacking and then landing and being hidden again... when they take off they get shot down...

    In such a situation having 500 planes is no help if they are going to be shot down as soon as they take off and they risk losing a pilot.

    I don't know about Su-27 family fighters, but I was under the impression that most Soviet era fighter

    Both the MiG-29 and Su-27 are designed with grids to protect their air intakes from FOD while on the ground. The old MiGs have solid panels with overwing louvres to allow air into the engines, while the Su-27s and new MiGs use a mesh grid that covers the the intake.

    Earlier, The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/) reported that the initiative, approved by US lawmakers, "provides $20 billion in military assistance expected to fund the transfer of advanced weapons systems such as Patriot air defense systems and long-range artillery."

    Good idea... that would be a great reason for Russia to level Kiev just to show how useless Patriot is....

    “Earlier, David Kasatkin offered to cut off the head of Ramzan Kadyrov's mother and abuse his children. Now we will send this information to the commanders from the Chechen Republic, you will talk to them personally.”

    That meeting will be brief...

    Which round is this?

    A new round for their navy for shore bombardment and point target destruction.

    Ideally they should design 155mm rounds that can be used by both the 2S19 Msta and modernized 2A36 Giatsint-B that should also be 155 mm.

    You mean 152mm, 155mm is a western calibre.

    2S19 is any case being replaced with the 155mm 2S-35 Koalitsiya-SV.

    It will be replaced by two versions of Koalition... the first based on the Armata chassis called 2S35 and the other based on a wheeled chassis... both 152mm calibre.

    Makes sense to have self propelled howitzers and towed howitzers that both use the same 155mm round.

    They will both use the same 152mm round developed for the Army (Coalition in the form of a tracked and wheeled and towed models) and the navy (a shore based coastal artillery gun to replace Bereg and also a gun turret used on destroyers and cruisers).

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    Post  Scorpius Sat May 21, 2022 12:52 pm

    They continue to calculate Ukrainians who mocked captured Russian soldiers. Some of these criminals were found among those who surrendered at Azovstal.

    https://t.me/rustroyka1945/2624

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    Post  Hole Sat May 21, 2022 1:01 pm

    kvs wrote:@LMFS

    It was Medhurst (a Syrian) in a live stream with Ritter.  Ritter was going on about how Kiev had developed strategic depth because
    Russia did not roll over Ukraine fast enough.  

    1) NATzO spent 8 years preparing its Kiev proxies for war.   But now we will have a "game changer" because of some training outside
    of Ukria in Poland and Romania.   WTF is this BS inference?

    2) Recall the panicking about humanitarian crisis before Russia pulled back from around Kiev.   Funny how this crisis went away.   The
    relevant detail is that Russia is not deploying 2 million soldiers and taking up the role of nanny for Ukria.  

    3) Gonzalo Lira is correct in his recent video on Ritter.  Ritter is spouting Atlantic Monthly drivel and is no longer credible.  Ritter can
    be very smart and knowledgeable about military affairs, but what he says still determines his credibility.  I will attribute Ritter's flip flop
    to the information terror climate in NATzO.   If people want to earn money to eat, then they have to toe the line.


    The regime in Kiev/Lviv and his handlers in Washington/Brussels planned an attack on the Donbass. Helmer had an article that claimed even
    an attack against Belgorod or even Rostov and Crimea. That´s why the best units were placed in the east, in the occupied parts of the Donbass
    and Mariupol. None of these units were pulled back after the russian advance. So to claim that the best units are now suddenly in western "Ukraine"
    or in Poland or Germany being trained by NATO is just another propaganda story. Keep on fighting till August then the new army will arrive!



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    Post  Hole Sat May 21, 2022 1:04 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    dionis wrote:
    Some dip-shit Reuters plonker wrote:The invasion of Ukraine has illustrated the limits of Russia's post-Soviet conventional armed forces, though Putin says the "special military operation" is going to plan.

    This is why the collective west is drowning in its own bile. Russia is only using some ~10% of its regular forces and they are steadily demolishing a NATO-trained and supported Ukraine, but this prostitute-scribbler tries to paint the campaign as a failure or proof of "weakness"  Suspect   The complete refusal of the Empires fart-sniffers to recognise the reality around them will lead them to over-extend and collapse.

    Exciting days indeed Laughing

    The limit is that they don´t use 50.000 conscripts to break trough a fortified area and ignore the losses.

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    Post  Tolstoy Sat May 21, 2022 1:05 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Tolstoy wrote:
    GarryB wrote:The only extended range round I have read about is the 180km range extended range guided round which looks like a rather fat APFSDS round containing HE.
    Which round is this?

    Ideally they should design 155mm rounds that can be used by both the 2S19 Msta and modernized 2A36 Giatsint-B that should also be 155 mm.

    2S19 is any case being replaced with the 155mm 2S-35 Koalitsiya-SV.

    Makes sense to have self propelled howitzers and towed howitzers that both use the same 155mm round.

    155mm ?????
    Yes 152 mm though some articles suggest that 2S-35 Koalitsiya-SV is 155 mm.

    My point was both self propelled howitzers and towed howitzers should use the same 152/155mm round.
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    Post  Hole Sat May 21, 2022 1:15 pm

    ucmvulcan wrote:
    limb wrote:
    11E wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:

    Yeah, 404 aircraft fly in from Romania, and are replenished by Su-27s, MiG-29s from whatever old Asian or African stocks. Deal with it.

    Sir,
    I'am afraid I disagree with you that Ukrainian fighter aircraft fly out from Romania (or another NATO country). It would be virtually impossible to hide this from the outside world.

    It would be seen with Russian radar (ground and air)
    It would be followed by Russian Electronic Warfare
    It would be verified after that by Russian satellite
    It would be verified by Russian people on the ground to be sure

    All of these would be a legal casus belli to take action against NATO, a risk even NATO would not take. Or it would be used as evidence in the information war.

    All NATO Combat Reporting Centers (radar stations) (at least in western Europe) are linked together. Also these stations are feed with AWACS imagery. The radar station in the Netherlands can see the air picture of a radar station in southern Germany and vice versa. An example, in the nineties it was possible to see the take-off of Russian Su-27s from Stargard-Kluczewo air base. It was easy to determine the so-called flying days of the Russian aircraft in East Germany and Poland. We used it to go there and take pictures...... So it must be possible to get an air picture whats flying around in Romania. All those radar operators have to keep their mouth about it. After some time someone will talk about it to colleagues and they tell it further.

    The Ukrainian Su-27 which defected to Romania was photographed the exact moment it arrived at that airfield. If, a very big if, Ukrainian combat planes were flying out of Romania (or other NATO country) there would be pictures of it. It would be the opportunity of a lifetime for aircraft spotters to take photographs of combat loaded aircraft or to photograph battle damaged aircraft returning from a mission. Remember, it is still possible to go unhindered to an airfield here and take pictures.

    Sincerely,
    Lesley

    So what's more likely, Ukrainians are good at hiding aircraft, or Russians suck at bombing airports?



    I don't know about Su-27 family fighters, but I was under the impression that most Soviet era fighters were designed to be tough enough take off from unprepared air fields or roads that their western counterparts could not.  I remember a 1991 or so episode of NOVA on the American public television station PBS where an American officer was shocked that at a Russian Air Force base they didn't follow western procedures of picking up any speck of debris no matter how small.  The officer asked his Russian counterpart about this and said during war an air strip would probably not be cleaned up.  So my guess is the Ukes are using the ruggedness of the planes they inherited from the regime they hate that called for that ruggedness to hide them and bring them out to launch from roads and unprepared air strips.

    Due to good weather conditions a lot of airbases were build in that area during Soviet times. Plus a lot of airports. Add to this that the support equipment is from soviet times and completely mobile. Runways are easily repaired, at least when you are using rugged military aircraft.

    The whole of the VKS would be needed to bomb all of the airports/bases for month and still couldn´t keep all of the enemy planes on the ground.

    Instead of that the russian side destroyed ammo and fuel depots, some maintenance areas and a lot of the flyable planes standing at the flightlines.
    This gave them complete air superiority form day 1 and the time to establish there integrated air defence system above the frontlines and thanks to the
    S-400 and S-300V4 systems above a lot of "Ukraine".

    The enemy can repair planes and send them into the air but they´re destroyed in minutes.

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    Post  lyle6 Sat May 21, 2022 1:17 pm


    Agent 47 gives military briefs now. That's how you know the economy is f*cked.

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 34 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16

    Post  Hole Sat May 21, 2022 1:17 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 34 Ftryom10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 34 Ftryom11
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 34 Ftryom12
    Ze Zivilian side of the Force Very Happy

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 34 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16

    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Sat May 21, 2022 1:18 pm

    Zelensky wants to immediately resume negotiations.

    This only days after various gung ho outbursts from the Kievan camp.

    So, what happened? The only takeaway is that either the fronts are collapsing at an alarming rate, or WDC support is drying up, or a combination of both. The former seems to be confirmed, at least.

    In either case, don't think Moscow is too interested.

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    Post  franco Sat May 21, 2022 1:44 pm

    As of May 21, 2022, on the territory of the Donetsk People's Republic, a group of DPR troops, with fire support from the RF Armed Forces, liberated and established full control over 188 settlements, including Novoselovka (Yasinovatsky district) and Mariupol.

    https://twitter.com/spriteer_774400/status/1527965654736900098?cxt=HHwWhMC4-duqtrQqAAAA

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 34 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16

    Post  Firebird Sat May 21, 2022 1:44 pm

    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:Zelensky wants to immediately resume negotiations.

    This only days after various gung ho outbursts from the Kievan camp.

    So, what happened? The only takeaway is that either the fronts are collapsing at an alarming rate, or WDC support is drying up, or a combination of both. The former seems to be confirmed, at least.

    In either case, don't think Moscow is too interested.

    They always do to rescue scum from the cauldrons.
    Scum who are then saved, rearmed, recovered and go on to potentially kill pro Russian civilians and soldiders.
    Just like with Debaltsevo.
    **** them. Sideways. With a pitchfork.

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