Russian special military operation in Ukraine #12

Sujoy wrote:

GarryB wrote:Bullshit... Moskva has 360 degree radar coverage, but the missiles for the Fort-M system have a minimum engagement range of about 7km and would not be used against sea skimming missiles... the OSA missiles on the other hand would be ideal for shooting down low flying subsonic missiles as would the 6 x AK-630 gatling turrets that are on the ship specifically to deal with subsonic sea skimming missiles.

Which is why they shouldn't have any problem sending it to 90km from Ukraines coast because on paper two subsonic sea skimming missiles would have no chance, even in a storm.

S-300F can search OR guide but only uses one of those radars at a time.  Using the targeting radar leaves you blind to half the sky.

AK- 630 has about 15 second window under ideal conditions.  Less in high seas.  Less if incoming missile is skimming.

S-300F has only one radar (above the hangar, which can be turned and has a coverage of around 270°)), it follows the targets (up to 6 or 12) and sends info to the missiles. The search part is done by the two specialized radars on top of the masts (360° coverage).

ArgentinaGuard wrote:It is incredible that they believe the stupidity of the Ukrainians who look for the faces of the Russians. It is propaganda.

What I can't believe is how Zielinsky's shitty Jew (who keeps making fun of himself in interviews) and the head of the Ukrainian army is still alive.
Those people should be detected and eliminated, smart missiles, commandos, whatever.
I refuse to believe in the incompetence of the Russian army. I just think that these shitty Ukrainians were prepared with the best by NATO.

Excuse me, but I am very angry.

Zelensky is still alive because he is needed to sign the capitulation agreement, which will propably give up large parts of "Ukraine" to eihter independence (sort of) or to become part of Russia again. Also the western border of left-over Ukraine could be guarded by Russian Border Guards, a few military bases in the country and so on. This would give the agreement a lot of legitimacy. That´s why the west will kill the clown in the not so distant future. They will declare some random Guido the new president, keep him in Washington/Brussels/Warsaw and "continue the fight against the evil russian invaders".

Some comments :

( 1 ) There are no rules on this forum against Armchair- Generals or Toilet- cleaners , being members or posting . Some real Generals or soldiers come out of a war with limited experience or knowledge , but with PTSD . Politicians are mostly corrupt and untrustworthy , and are not to be believed . A pen is mightier than a sword .

( 2 ) Killing the " enemy " , into defeat , is one approach . Yet , to be successful in this , one has to kill a lot of people . A difficult task in itself . A better way , may be to encircle an enemy , without killing many , while leaving them the option of surrender . If an objective is highly important to take or destroy , and it is not possible to encircle , then removing enemy troops may be unavoidable .

( 3 ) To my mind , the priority in this operation is to encircle UA in Donnbas . Allowing them no mobility ( at least East of the Dnieper River ) , since I saw on TV , that a UA trooper from Mariupol , was easily transporting reporters from western MSM , to Odessa in private car ! All traffic over the River to be destroyed . Food aid to be provided by Russia or through Russia , to people in the East .

( 4 ) There should be no immediate need to capture a city , even if troops hiding there . Unless there is a valuable facility to be possessed without destroying it . Large cities like Kiev or Kharkiv , should be bypassed . After encircling UA in Donnbas , a Sea-Land operation to encircle Odessa and capture coast entirely . Bad idea to go into Kharkiv or other towns .

Cruise missile (propably Kaliber) in Lviv region

Somalis on the (Mariupol) beach

Aftermath of a short visit by Mr. Iskander

Moving trough Kharkov region

Locals

Big_Gazza wrote:A.Martyanovs view on the loss of the Moskva.



He doesn't think it is likely that she was taken out by Neptune AShMs, though it still a possibility.  He also thinks it is possible that sabotage was the cause, ie a crew member with Ukie sympathies gained access to magazine and caused the fire.  He suspects that the ammo that detonated was the 130mm shells of the fwd arty battery or the depth charges of the fwd RBU complex.  

Bottom line is that at this moment we simply don't know. We'll just need to wait.

Interestingly he says of the ~3000 POWs taken so far, about ~1000 are in the RF and being interrogated for war crimes purposes, that many active NATO personnel has been captured and will be paraded as part of the "walk of shame" once war crimes trials gather pace

If this had been a missile strike, there would be footage of the launch of the missiles. They claimed they used a drone for spotting or fool the radars but there is no footage of or from a drone.
Anything was the clown regime does is for media consumption. They show footage of ATGM launches from Syria and claim they´ve done it. They show scenes from computer games. Footage from aircraft and drone simulators. And this time they only showed some easy to debunk old footage from an sinking tanker/freighter? Highly unlikely.

The most likely scenario is some malfunction in one of the myriad of electric systems on board the ship. Or some cellphone or notebook battery exploding. The fire spread trough crew quarters and reached some ammunition. Boom. Damage done.

Issue with bombs is that the tu-22m3 isn't capable of using them

The Tu-22M3 is their heaviest bomber, the Blackjack and Bear are not bombers but the Backfire certainly is.... plenty of footage of Backfire dropping dumb bombs on Syrian targets...

S-300F can search OR guide but only uses one of those radars at a time. Using the targeting radar leaves you blind to half the sky.

Who told you that?

S-300 has separate search and tracking radars... the search radar just searches and the tracking radar tracks targets and outgoing missiles... they are not multifunction radar that shift from search to tracking mode they are a search radar and a tracking radar.

Neither of those radars would be used for sea skimming missiles anyway... the radar horizon for a sea skimming missile would be about 10-12 km but the minimum engagement range of S-300F is about 7km so there isn't much point in using it for that.

OSA and the AK-630s are for sea skimming threats... and were designed and intended from the outset for that job.

AK- 630 has about 15 second window under ideal conditions. Less in high seas. Less if incoming missile is skimming.

No it doesn't. Phalanx has a small window because its 50 cal penetrator rounds are only effective to about 1.8km and are not effective within 600m which creates a narrow band where it would be effective but even then it isn't because it gets radar returns off wave tops and can't hit sea skimming targets. It is because the radar is mounted on the gun mount on Phalanx.

On AK-630 the radar is not mounted on any of the 6 gun mounts and radar tracking is much more effective especially against very low targets.

The AK-630 can hit stationary large targets out to about 5km but has an effective engagement range of about 3km down to about 300m... against a subsonic target that is plenty of time and as the targets get closer the chances of hits increases massively.

If this had been a missile strike, there would be footage of the launch of the missiles.

If it had been a missile strike they would be dancing in the streets like they won the war...

Big_Gazza wrote:A.Martyanovs view on the loss of the Moskva.



He doesn't think it is likely that she was taken out by Neptune AShMs, though it still a possibility.  He also thinks it is possible that sabotage was the cause, ie a crew member with Ukie sympathies gained access to magazine and caused the fire.  He suspects that the ammo that detonated was the 130mm shells of the fwd arty battery or the depth charges of the fwd RBU complex.  

Bottom line is that at this moment we simply don't know. We'll just need to wait.

Interestingly he says of the ~3000 POWs taken so far, about ~1000 are in the RF and being interrogated for war crimes purposes, that many active NATO personnel has been captured and will be paraded as part of the "walk of shame" once war crimes trials gather pace

Is the walk of shame copied from the Roman triumph?

At that time we used to end the triumph in front of the temple of Jupiter Optimus Maximus, and the defeated king and leaders would be strangled to death there while in their best dresses and ornaments after being walked in chain during the whole procession.

Just as an example, the Gallic king Vercingetorix had been kept as prisoner for 6 years after his defeat and surrender, just to be paraded and then strangled during Caesar triumph in 46 BC.

Hole wrote:

Zelensky is still alive because he is needed to sign the capitulation agreement, which will propably give up large parts of "Ukraine" to eihter independence (sort of) or to become part of Russia again. Also the western border of left-over Ukraine could be guarded by Russian Border Guards, a few military bases in the country and so on. This would give the agreement a lot of legitimacy. That´s why the west will kill the clown in the not so distant future. They will declare some random Guido the new president, keep him in Washington/Brussels/Warsaw and "continue the fight against the evil russian invaders".

No point, the neo-Nazis will most likely kill Zelensky if he tries to surrender, and blame it on the Russians.

Big_Gazza wrote:Mandatory viewing for anyone who wants to understand the Russia-Ukraine conflict - its origins, the strategic military situation, and the impact on the global financial-economic sphere.

Goddamn but I respect Scott Ritter.  If only Murkan "elites" had the intelligence and honesty of this guy.

Don't be delusional.

The desperation is so high, so palpable, people will seek appeal to authority validation from "ex" American spooks "fallen from grace" (apparently of course - you never quite leave the agency), german, british, brazilians....floridian grifters.... Anybody, anyone that can sell that sweet lie, sweetly wrapped that says "everything is going to be ok", "everything is going according to plan", "there is no reason to worry or panic", "the West are idiots", "the Russians are so smart" etc etc..... Otherwise how could you face the crises, the tension, how could possible sleep peacefully. We all know above all of it, it's just a big massive front to hide the real insecurity and fear cursing through the brain.

It's those people, far far away from Russia's political and military apparatus that know best. Kinda funny contrasting the divide for say a guy like Strelkov... a "6th columnist", a butthurt washed up has been... all for going directly for the Kremlin jugular.

It seems all of this has one common dominator..... for as long as the Kremlin is praised, and damaged control for, or "criticized" with soft gloves boxed in a small confine of limits to create cred validation you're ok for the hive mind. Step outside that confine and well, you'll be an outcast real quick. Not only of the Russian establishment and its propaganda apparatus which is quick to protect itself but also of the sheeple hooked to that drug. A massive circular ego stoking exercise.

I wouldn't be fucking surprised if half of them are western assets, half russian..... so easy to play the act and so easy to dupe the sheeple it's a fucking no brainer. You get "street cred" quick. And seeing how manyturncoats are in the halls of power in Russia, it's frankly a big fat joke.

Also funny is the often seen propaganda lines saying western elites are dumber or stupider than this or that nobody. Really? Who's on the back foot facing a crisis? That's when you know that brain isn't worth half of a broken nut.

ArgentinaGuard wrote:

Yes, I thought very well. Russia must show that it is ready for anything, to end the human life of the enemy. That the Western world experienced fear of the apocalypse in Cuba. And it is justified, since Russia is risking its national destiny, in addition to defending decent civilization from globalist and liberal bullshit. I expect a clear message. Let's see if Biden and the parasites continue to supply the Ukrainians.

First you talk about the fantasy that the Invincible was sunk during the Malvidas/Falklands War and now you say that the Russians should nuke Washington!?

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
Is the walk of shame copied from the Roman triumph?

At that time we used to end the triumph in front of the temple of Jupiter Optimus Maximus, and the defeated king and leaders would be strangled to death there while in their best dresses and ornaments after being walked in chain during the whole procession.

Just as an example, the Gallic king Vercingetorix had been kept as prisoner for 6 years after his defeat and surrender, just to be paraded and then strangled during Caesar triumph in 46 BC.

Was Vitalstatistix the son of or related to Vercingetorix

On a more serious note, the walk of shame will no doubt follow the plot of the one held in Donetsk in 2015, with the water cannon washing the road behind them. Would be impressive if held in Red Square and probably enough captives already for it to be part of this year's 9th May parade. Perhaps a good idea but it might have unpleasant implications for Russian PoW held in Ukraine.

In London after WW2 German PoWs were made to construct all the grandstands for the VE day parade. Many were not allowed home (up to 200,000 of them) until 1947 as the British Ministry of Works was making £20M ( a lot of money in those days) renting them out.

JohninMK wrote:

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
Is the walk of shame copied from the Roman triumph?

At that time we used to end the triumph in front of the temple of Jupiter Optimus Maximus, and the defeated king and leaders would be strangled to death there while in their best dresses and ornaments after being walked in chain during the whole procession.

Just as an example, the Gallic king Vercingetorix had been kept as prisoner for 6 years after his defeat and surrender, just to be paraded and then strangled during Caesar triumph in 46 BC.

Was Vitalstatistix the son of or related to Vercingetorix

On a more serious note, the walk of shame will no doubt follow the plot of the one held in Donetsk in 2015, with the water cannon washing the road behind them. Would be impressive if held in Red Square and probably enough captives already for it to be part of this year's 9th May parade.

In London after WW2 German PoWs were made to construct all the grandstands for the VE day parade. Many were not allowed home (up to 200,000 of them) until 1947 as the British Ministry of Works was making £20M ( a lot of money in those days) renting them out.

There might be one held in Mariupol, and in a couple of other cities in the future with urban battles where civilians were used as human shields and who are ready to give such 'defenders' a good send-off by the end of their whole ordeal.

Small-scale, local ones. Or not, I can't guess the decisions.

There won't be one in Red Square - this isn't WW2 at the end of the day

flamming_python wrote:
There might be one held in Mariupol, and in a couple of other cities in the future with urban battles where civilians were used as human shields and who are ready to give such 'defenders' a good send-off by the end of their whole ordeal.

Small-scale, local ones. Or not, I can't guess the decisions.

There won't be one in Red Square - this isn't WW2 at the end of the day

I agree and already made a qualifier change to my text but you were too fast for me

Walk of shame is for high-tailing it out in the early AM after banging some broad you swore you won't be caught dead with.
An entirely different kind of getting fucked.

lyle6 wrote:Walk of shame is for high-tailing it out in the early AM after banging some broad you swore you won't be caught dead with.
An entirely different kind of getting fucked.

Trying to make sure no-one saw you.

Yeah, the one you frequently said wasn't good enough for your worst enemy.

Don't know what you are talking about

Haven't seen Hinex1988's morning MoD update so here, not as neat as his layout, is the data

Briefing of the Russian Ministry of Defense (16.04.2022)

High-precision long-range air-based weapons destroyed the production buildings of an armored plant in Kyiv and a workshop for repairing military equipment in Nikolaev.

During the night, 16 enemy targets were hit by high-precision air-launched missiles. Among them destroyed:

in the settlements of Povstanskoye, Odessa region, Barvenkovo, Lisichansk, Sribnoye, Petrovsky and Opytnoye, 11 areas where Ukrainian military equipment and weapons are concentrated;
in the Nikolaev area, two depots of rocket and artillery weapons;
in the south-east of Poltava, a central storage base for radar reconnaissance and communications equipment;
south of Poltava, a storage base for anti-aircraft missile weapons;
in the village of Gusarovka, the area of ​​​​concentration of units of the 95th separate air assault brigade.

Operational-tactical aviation destroyed 67 areas of concentration of personnel and Ukrainian military equipment during the night.

Russian air defense systems shot down a Ukrainian Su-25 aircraft in the air 15 kilometers south of the village of Izyum.

Rocket troops and artillery hit 811 targets, including: 43 command posts of Ukrainian troops, 8 convoys with fuel for military equipment, as well as 760 enemy manpower concentration areas.

https://t.me/mod_russia/14420

Juan Sinmiedo
@Youblacksoul
·
4h
Ukrainian army attempted to attack the dam of Kakhovka reservoir in Kherson region with its favourite Vergeltungswaffe Tochka-U ballistic missile. The missile was intercepted by Russian air-defence and some of the debris fell on private houses.

Jackson Hinkle
@jacksonhinklle
·
15h
Russia didn't increase their aggression on Ukraine because of Moskva, they did so because of Klimovo.

On Thursday, Ukraine illegally sent military helicopters with heavy weaponry into Russia to strike homes in Klimovo. 7 civilian casualties including 1 small child were reported.

From the UK's Times paper

British special forces have trained local troops in Kyiv for the first time since the war with Russia began, Ukrainian commanders have told The Times.

Officers from two battalions stationed in and around the capital said they had undergone military training, one last week and the other the week before.

Captain Yuriy Myronenko, whose battalion is stationed in Obolon on the northern outskirts of Kyiv, said that military trainers had come to instruct new and returning military recruits to use NLAWs, British-supplied anti-tank missiles that were delivered in February as the invasion was beginning.

One Ukrainian special forces commander, who goes by the military nickname “Skiff”, said the 112th battalion, to which his unit was attached, had undergone training last week. The account was confirmed by his senior commander. “They were good guys, the Brits,” the commander, nicknamed “Bear”, said. “They have invited us to visit them when the war is over”.

British military trainers were first sent to Ukraine after the invasion of Crimea. They were withdrawn in February to avoid direct conflict with Russian forces and the possibility of Nato being drawn into the latest conflict.

The United States announced this week that it was supplying $800 million in new weapons to Ukraine, for the first time including artillery, as well as resuming training by American troops. The Pentagon said explicitly that the training would not be conducted on Ukrainian territory. Moscow sent a letter to Washington yesterday demanding that the US stop arming Kyiv, warning of “unpredictable consequences”.

In other developments:
• The captain of the Moskva, the Russian flagship of the Black Sea fleet that sank after a reported missile strike, was said to be among the dead.

• William Burns, the director of the CIA, said the US had “practical evidence” that the Kremlin was prepared to use tactical nuclear weapons.

• Moscow threatened targets in Kyiv in response to what it said were Ukrainian attacks on Russian territory.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sas-troops-are-training-local-forces-in-ukraine-32vs5bjzb


Accurate post from Rob Lee

Rob Lee
@RALee85

Rob Lee
@RALee85
·
11h
This was a significant success for Ukraine and a morale boost, but, in military terms, I don't think it will significantly alter the outcome of this war given that the war will mostly be concentrated around the Donbas in the coming weeks.
I've seen no evidence that the Moskva fired any missiles at Ukraine, including its main weapon: P-1000 Vulkan anti-ship missiles. It isn't equipped with Kalibr cruise missiles, and it lacked a strong ground attack option other than cannons.
https://nytimes.com/2022/04/15/us/

You'd laugh if it wasn't so serious

Ukraine War Map
@War_Mapper
·
11h
Map update on information for Borova:

The combat there appears to have been from attempting to take control of the village after taking Bohuslavka (North) and Pershotravneve (East) on the 11th of April. now has almost full control over the village.

Hole wrote:S-300F has only one radar (above the hangar, which can be turned and has a coverage of around 270°)), it follows the targets (up to 6 or 12) and sends info to the missiles. The search part is done by the two specialized radars on top of the masts (360° coverage).

To understand that blind spot on Moskva, compare to Aegis cruisers.....they have their phased array radar plate in four directions, covering 360 degrees. Moskva had only one phased array radar, on a pivoting base, covering only one sector, leaving a blind spot. Fiberglass radome at stern of Moskva is for the phased array radar. Phased array radars are incredibly expensive but the computers needed to run them are GARGANTUALLY expensive. Russia did the cheap solution, a phased array radar that points into direction of threat.

Another Mi-8 wasted on a PR trip.

I proceed from simple facts: there is still not a single frame of a fire on the cruiser Moscow. There are no shots of launching anti-ship missiles or shots of the PKR hitting the cruiser Moscow. You know, in any army in the world there is something called "means of objective control", which are designed to confirm the hit, defeat and destruction of the target. Such a target as a missile cruiser is undoubtedly under constant electronic, optical and God knows what kind of surveillance from the United States and NATO. And if we have not yet seen any confirmation that "Moscow" was hit by any PKR, this most likely means one thing: they simply did not exist. And the fire on the Moskva has either internal causes (accident, sabotage, diversion), or spontaneous external ones (detonation on one of the random mines drifting in the Black Sea now). Everything else is speculation and speculation.