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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #12

    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:34 pm

    Mir wrote:
    Podlodka77 wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    Podlodka77 wrote:

    I just passed the link from TASS, nothing else.

    Out of curiosity, why did you do that when Hinex1988 had already posted that information in the MoD readout a few posts earlier?

    Oh and in the first line of that post you even misquoted it.

    I did not see that he published the news.

    To be honest you do seem to post a lot of things that has all ready been posted very recently. It is kind of annoying.

    I would not say that it is as you write because I am copying FULL posts (but I don't always copy titles) that I find on TASS or some other source, and not just a piece of some information. Tell me who else is doing this before you start pretending to be smart?
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:36 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:My question about their naval loss is wasn't it protected by missile defense batteries? or did gross russian incompetence shine through the clouds once more and left it unprotected despite knowing ukraine got neptunes, if defenses where in place does this mean Neptune can bypass russian AD protections.

    So many questions

    I know this will trigger fanboys but hey you gotta ask the question "How this happened" this isn't like losing a tank, this is a much bigger deal

    Sitting on their asses and thinking that big ship will do the job all by itself

    Usual naval hubris and traditional Slavic slacking off




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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:39 pm

    The reason such crimes occur firstly , is due to incompetent policy

    Why guys are castrated? They were captured, why? Because they were told to advance without objective

    Why ropucha was lost? It was just chilling in Port where Ukros had tochka nearby , whole units intact with rockets and artillery , but noone considered them a threat until airfield with helicopters and a ropucha were lost

    Why moskva sank? Either mines were sent from Odessa, or neptun , both occurred due to inaction taken in Odessa sector, by hitting Odessa, and keeping the ship away from the coast until a landing was ready

    Why belgorod was hit? Well army left chernigov, leaving the approach totally open , instead of destroying those units, they were left intact , an s400 just downed their MI8, but more of too little too late

    These blunders don't speak of bad military , but of bad political leadership which have asked of the military an impossible task , "special military operation "

    Such a fantasy could only be conjured by the clowns of the Kremlin, the MOD is not responsible to tailor some made up bullshit for political whores

    But should have adamantly said, no we don't do "special military operations" only war, so fire me if you proceed with this stupid shit

    But this is where this had lead, eventually the clown show in Kremlin will accept that retard military operations don't exist, and that they are fighting a war

    But it will take some more blunders to toughen the policy and let the military do what is needed sadly

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    Dr.Snufflebug


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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:40 pm

    Mir wrote:
    Serberus wrote:https://t.me/zluchka_tactical/199
    Tyumen

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #12 - Page 8 B017bd10

    Those are from very very deep storage as they are all based on the Zil-131 chassis! But I guess they will be equally useful as anything else in clearing the Donbass cauldron.

    That kind of firepower does have its uses, and even though the trucks themselves are ancient they are quite mobile.

    Some TG guys report missile strikes on Kiev right now, in broad daylight. That's new.




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    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:47 pm

    The family of Lieutenant Kontsov, who died in Ukraine, will be awarded a maroon beret

    Hero of Russia Lieutenant Kontsov, who died in Ukraine, was posthumously awarded a maroon beret

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #12 - Page 8 17825310


    MOSCOW, April 15 - RIA Novosti. The family of lieutenant of the Russian Guard Maxim Kontsov, who died during a special operation in Ukraine and was posthumously awarded the title of Hero of Russia, will be awarded a maroon beret, the press service of the Russian Guard reports.
    "This beret will be presented to the family of our heroic commando soldier Maxim Kontsov. Glory to the special forces, death to the terrorists," Hero of Russia Sergei Lysyuk, founder of the Vityaz Maroon Beret Brotherhood, said.

    The maroon beret is a sign of special distinction for the special forces of the Russian Guard, it is awarded not only according to the results of the exam, but also for the courage shown in battle.

    Having discovered the sabotage and reconnaissance group, Kontsov's reconnaissance group entered the battle. Having personally suppressed the firing point, the lieutenant ensured the maneuver to encircle the saboteurs. Having received several gunshot wounds, he discovered and destroyed an enemy grenade launcher and continued to lead his subordinates. By sacrificing himself, the officer saved his comrades-in-arms, the release says.
    The sabotage group of nationalists was destroyed, several people were taken prisoner, and the scouts of the National Guard seized and liquidated a large cache of weapons and ammunition.


    https://ria.ru/20220415/beret-1783671383.html

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    Eugenio Argentina
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    Post  Eugenio Argentina Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:48 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:The reason such crimes occur firstly , is due to incompetent policy

    Why guys are castrated? They were captured,  why? Because they were told to advance without objective

    Why ropucha was lost? It was just chilling in Port where Ukros had tochka nearby , whole units intact with rockets and artillery , but noone considered them a threat until airfield with helicopters and a ropucha were lost

    Why moskva sank? Either mines were sent from Odessa,  or neptun , both occurred due to inaction taken in Odessa sector, by hitting Odessa, and keeping the ship away from the coast until a landing was ready

    Why belgorod was hit? Well army left chernigov, leaving the approach totally open  , instead of destroying those units,  they were left intact , an s400 just downed their MI8, but more of too little too late

    These blunders don't speak of bad military , but of bad political leadership which have asked of the military an impossible task , "special military operation "

    Such a fantasy could only be conjured by the clowns of the Kremlin, the MOD is not responsible to tailor some made up bullshit for political whores

    But should have adamantly said, no we don't do "special military operations" only war, so fire me if you proceed with this stupid shit

    But this is where this had lead, eventually the clown show in Kremlin will accept that retard military operations don't exist, and that they are fighting a war

    But it will take some more blunders to toughen the policy and let the military do what is needed sadly

    He spends putting many meaningless things.
    It asks and answers itself.
    Actually, there is no proof of what she says.
    To expect that there will be no casualties in men and materials is very naive.
    At this point, so much naivety of some is striking.
    It seems rather, that they play for the enemy.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:53 pm

    Covering up will lead to more of the same

    When you ask a firefighter (shoigu) to make a SMO, you get what you see

    It's like a siberia flood operation , not war planning

    Until accountability is demanded, it will be more of the same
    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:01 pm

    "Their trademark." Who is behind the anti-Russian provocations in Ukraine

    MOSCOW, April 15 - RIA Novosti, Andrey Kots. The West is preparing a provocation with chemical weapons in Ukraine in order to accuse the Russian army of using it, Deputy Speaker of the Federation Council Konstantin Kosachev said in an interview with RIA Novosti. He is convinced that NATO needs sabotage to denigrate Moscow in the eyes of Europeans and Americans, as well as to justify even tougher sanctions. The threat is quite real - Brussels and Washington have a lot of experience with such "staging".

    "Red line"

    At the end of March, US President Joe Biden admitted the possibility of direct NATO intervention in the armed conflict in Ukraine "if Russia uses chemical weapons." He was immediately played along by German Chancellor Olaf Scholz and Secretary General of the North Atlantic Alliance Jens Stoltenberg, saying that the use of chemical warfare agents is a "red line", followed by a "tough and proportionate response" from the West.
    Of course, they did not promise to send soldiers to Ukraine, as they are well aware that a direct clash with Moscow could escalate into a nuclear war. However, Washington and Brussels need a "chemical production" to tighten sanctions and increase political and economic pressure.
    “In Western countries, pressure from within is increasing every day. A situation of zugzwang is emerging, when it is necessary to adopt sanctions that will hit them themselves,” Konstantin Kosachev believes. even weapons of mass destruction could go in. Against this background, the talk of Western politicians about chemical warfare agents is of particular concern."
    The chemical and bacteriological "map" for the Americans and their allies is a favorite casus belli. Secretary of State Colin Powell, speaking at the UN in February 2003, presented a test tube with "anthrax bacilli", after which the United States invaded Iraq. As a result, weapons of mass destruction were not found there. But the UN provocation cost Baghdad terrible destruction and hundreds of thousands of deaths.

    Syrian lesson

    Chemical weapons almost became the reason for the full-scale intervention of the United States and its allies in Syria in the summer of 2013. In August, in Eastern Ghouta (a suburb of Damascus), unknown people sprayed sarin gas - killing from 600 to 1,300 people. The Americans blamed the government of Bashar al-Assad for this and threatened to launch missile and air strikes on defense enterprises. The crisis was resolved thanks to Russian intervention: Moscow persuaded Damascus to destroy stockpiles of military chemicals under the supervision of international observers.
    By 2017, all officially declared Syrian stockpiles of poisonous substances had been destroyed. However, on April 4, in the city of Khan Sheikhoun, Idlib province, a sarin release occurred - 89 victims, 550 injured. Representatives of the public organization "White Helmets", which many consider to be accomplices of the militants, told the Western media about four "unusually weak explosions" characteristic of aviation special munitions. Naturally, they blamed Assad.
    Three days later, US Navy ships fired Tomahawk cruise missiles at the Shayrat air base in Syria, from which the chemical bomb planes allegedly took off. The Khan Sheikhoun incident was never investigated. The White Helmets' testimonies cannot be considered reliable, if only because these "volunteers" are by no means specialists in chemical warfare agents. But they are professional PR people who were repeatedly caught by the hand on staged shootings, forgeries and outright lies.
    As, for example, in January 2018, when, according to the same White Helmets, 13 civilians, including women and minors, were injured in a chemical attack in the city of Duma in Eastern Ghouta.
    As proof, the Western media published a standard video sequence: the same baby in an oxygen mask, which for some reason is held in each picture by different people (and in different interiors), and a strange ammunition with a rusty shank and a cylindrical glass in place of the warhead . It is very similar to a makeshift mortar mine, which terrorists so cleverly make, and not to a regular army-style projectile.
    Nevertheless, no one in the West doubted the veracity of the White Helmets. Washington and Brussels each time referred to their fakes, increasing pressure on the Assad government.

    "Collateral damage"

    However, in the arsenal of the Ukrainian and NATO special services there are weapons more powerful than chemical attacks. From the very beginning of the Russian special operation, the Western media with die-hard persistence convince the audience that the "bloody Russians" are deliberately hitting residential buildings and shooting civilians in the streets. The fact that the civilian infrastructure regularly arrives from the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the National Battalion, and especially the defense, is completely ignored.
    There is a lot of evidence on the Web that the Armed Forces of Ukraine deliberately place artillery in residential areas and do not allow the locals to evacuate, hiding behind them like a human shield. Obviously, they were taught this by Western curators, who are accustomed to fighting in foreign countries and cynically call the loss of civilians "collateral damage." American aircraft destroyed Iraqi Mosul or Syrian Raqqa to the ground, but no one in the West called for sanctions to be announced to Washington.
    Particularly indicative is the "picture" from Bucha in the Kiev region, which was widely distributed in European and American media. The militants of the terbats, who entered the city on April 3 (after Russian troops left it on March 30), suddenly found dozens of civilian corpses, mass graves, bodies with signs of torture in the basements and other horrors on the streets. Russians were immediately blamed for the atrocities.

    Kramatorsk fake

    However, experts immediately pointed out a number of oddities in the videos from Bucha distributed by the Ukrainian authorities. First, judging by the state of the bodies of the dead, they were killed a maximum of two days before the arrival of the Ukrainian military: no signs of decomposition. Secondly, most of the corpses were wearing white bandages - an identification mark used by the Russians. Thirdly, some of the "dead" on the video frames are moving.
    Fourthly, most of the bodies are dressed in the same type of clothes and lie on a limited section of the street. Fifthly, the Ukrainian journalists who visited Bucha on April 2 did not report any massacres. And there are a lot of such inconsistencies.
    “In Kyiv, they are waiting with great concern for the outcome of the battles for Donbass,” explains political scientist Andrei Suzdaltsev. “Ukraine and the United States are trying to stop the special operation with such obvious provocations. There is even competition between them: who will do it first. It is extremely important for Americans to show that the Western world dominates. And they have a common goal - to present Russia as a fiend."
    Not all performances can be completed with the desired result. So, on April 8, the Armed Forces of Ukraine hit the railway station in Kramatorsk with a Tochka-U ballistic missile. More than 50 people died. Ukrainian and Western media, of course, blamed Moscow. It's just that photos of rocket fragments with a clearly distinguishable serial number leaked to the press. It turned out that this ammunition was from the Ukrainian arsenals. Then Western journalists, as if on cue, stopped mentioning Kramatorsk in their reports.

    The authorities of the NATO and EU countries quite recently, by historical standards, have already used the mass death of people as a pretext for punishing "undesirables". In January 1999, the Yugoslav police raided the Kosovo village of Račak and killed 45 militants. The EU Commission recorded them as civilians. Here is the reason for the war. In the 78-day NATO air campaign, thousands died, the country was destroyed.
    Western politicians, military and intelligence agencies have a very consistent strategy. If some technique, provocation or fake works, there is no doubt that it will be used again.

    https://ria.ru/20220415/provokatsii-1783493151.html

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    franco
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    Post  franco Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:12 pm

    kvs wrote:
    franco wrote:Zelensky announced 44,000 Ukrainian troops in Donbass

    At the moment, the strength of the Ukrainian military group in the Donbass is 44 thousand people. This was stated by President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky in an interview with the BBC.

    According to him, the Donbass will become the central place of the fighting, which will affect "the course of this war."

    On February 17, the situation in Donbass escalated sharply. The DNR and LNR announced a lot of shelling by the armed forces of Ukraine.

    On February 21, Russian President Vladimir Putin signed decrees recognizing the independence of the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics, under which he instructed the Russian Ministry of Defense to ensure the maintenance of peace on their territory.

    On February 24, the Russian president announced that he had decided to conduct a military special operation in Ukraine in response to a request for help from the heads of the LPR and DPR.

    The decision to conduct the operation was the reason for new sanctions against Russia by the United States and its allies.

    https://www-gazeta-ru.translate.goog/army/news/2022/04/15/17574296.shtml?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

    Zelensky is not credible.   His owners have directed him to throw everything he has at the LDNR.   His owners are also mentally deficient.


    The Russian estimated there were 60,000 (59+) on the Donbas front lines at the start of Operations (plus another 60-90,000 in theater SE Ukraine). Those figures would indicate a 25% loss to date. And agreed, he is not a reliable source but it is reported data.

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    Post  Firebird Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:17 pm

    2 questions for anyone who might know the answers:-

    1)How viable would an "airborne artillery plane" be?

    By that, I mean a large plane with large calibre artillery firing. |But the added advantage of extra range, and some mobility.

    I heard the US was considering converting B-52s to "arsenal planes".
    But I thought that was more about lots of missiles... which is basically what they are already.

    Could an airborne artillery plane be remote manned?

    2)How viable would it be to quickly add a land based S-400 AAD launcher to a ship.. if the ship is big enough?

    After all, land based variants just drive up, put the stabilisers down and get ready to fire.
    Obviously the radar etc might need to be on a separate ship or site.


    Last edited by Firebird on Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:17 pm

    Podlodka77 wrote:
    I would not say that it is as you write because I am copying FULL posts (but I don't always copy titles) that I find on TASS or some other source, and not just a piece of some information. Tell me who else is doing this before you start pretending to be smart?

    Ok I will illustrate so you can perhaps get a better understanding as to what I am referring to? You have a habit of doing it.

    Here is Krepost post 571 in the Pr.677 Lada thread >>
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #12 - Page 8 Sample10

    Here is your post 577 in the same thread >>
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #12 - Page 8 Sample11
    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:26 pm

    Mir wrote:
    Podlodka77 wrote:
    I would not say that it is as you write because I am copying FULL posts (but I don't always copy titles) that I find on TASS or some other source, and not just a piece of some information. Tell me who else is doing this before you start pretending to be smart?

    Ok I will illustrate so you can perhaps get a better understand as to what I am referring to? You have a habit of doing it.

    Here is Krepost post 571 in the Pr.677 Lada thread >>
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #12 - Page 8 Sample10

    Here is your post 577 in the same thread >>
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #12 - Page 8 Sample11

    What problem do you have in your head, man?
    Before my publication for those submarines, HOLE had the last publication, ten days earlier, while NEWS itself was published two days before I published it. Yes, the Fortress published the SECOND news, that is, the NEWS about the date for cutting steel for those submarines. That news has nothing to do with what I published on the March 24th and the news itself is from March 22.

    https://tass.ru/obschestvo/14142549
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    Post  zorobabel Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:29 pm

    Firebird wrote:2 questions for anyone who might know the answers:-

    1)How viable would an "airborne artillery plane" be?

    By that, I mean a large plane with large calibre artillery firing. |But the added advantage of extra range, and some mobility.

    I heard the US was considering converting B-52s to "arsenal planes".
    But I thought that was more about lots of missiles... which is basically what they are already.

    Could an airborne artillery plane be remote manned?

    2)How viable would it be to quickly add a land based S-400 AAD launcher to a ship.. if the ship is big enough?

    After all, land based variants just drive up, put the stabilisers down and get ready to fire.
    Obviously the radar etc might need to be on a separate ship or site.
    The US already has something like an airborne artillery plane. The AC-130 has a 105mm M102 howitzer. It has been very effective.

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:29 pm

    Podlodka77 wrote:
    What problem do you have in your head, man?
    Before my publication for those submarines, HOLE had the last publication, ten days earlier, while NEWS itself was published two days before I published it. Yes, the Fortress published the SECOND news, that is, the NEWS about the date for cutting steel for those submarines. That news has nothing to do with what I published on the March 24th and the news itself is from March 22.

    https://tass.ru/obschestvo/14142549

    Yes exactly now you get it! It's old news already! Glad I could help you out. thumbsup

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    Post  flamming_python Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:36 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:The reason such crimes occur firstly , is due to incompetent policy

    Why guys are castrated? They were captured,  why? Because they were told to advance without objective

    Why ropucha was lost? It was just chilling in Port where Ukros had tochka nearby , whole units intact with rockets and artillery , but noone considered them a threat until airfield with helicopters and a ropucha were lost

    Why moskva sank? Either mines were sent from Odessa,  or neptun , both occurred due to inaction taken in Odessa sector, by hitting Odessa, and keeping the ship away from the coast until a landing was ready

    Why belgorod was hit? Well army left chernigov, leaving the approach totally open  , instead of destroying those units,  they were left intact , an s400 just downed their MI8, but more of too little too late

    These blunders don't speak of bad military , but of bad political leadership which have asked of the military an impossible task , "special military operation "

    Such a fantasy could only be conjured by the clowns of the Kremlin, the MOD is not responsible to tailor some made up bullshit for political whores

    But should have adamantly said, no we don't do "special military operations" only war, so fire me if you proceed with this stupid shit

    But this is where this had lead, eventually the clown show in Kremlin will accept that retard military operations don't exist, and that they are fighting a war

    But it will take some more blunders to toughen the policy and let the military do what is needed sadly

    The guys being captured due to raids by saboteur groups and then tortured to death - yeah going by Chechnya, most such cases are the results of their commanders taking their responsibilities too lightheartedly. Sometimes it's the soldiers themselves, but they do tend to have the instinct of self-preservation in a warzone going for them. In one case I heard of, Ukrainian soldiers dressed up as civilians, stopped at a checkpoint, and then pulled their guns out and took the Russian soldiers prisoner. In that case procedures need to be modified. Have another fire group covering any soldiers at the checkpoints.

    Ropucha being lost - there were Tochka strikes against Berdyansk over the previous days. They were shot down. As was this one reportedly, but enough of its wreckage managed to ignite the Ropucha-class. At least that's one version. Maybe the rocket hit, or maybe it was sabotage at the port. If the rocket hit, then the VKS did not manage to hunt down Tochkas in time, that they knew were operating. If it was sabotage, then the local commanders of the naval infantry did not act to secure the port sufficiently.

    Moskva sinking - we don't know what happened. But if it had something to do with missiles - it's probably not due to the Moskva's commander himself or his crew, they work with what they got. It's a mix of unfavorable circumstances - a storm, enemy attacks from drones mixed with cruise missiles. It's the fault of the commanders of the Black Sea Fleet for deploying the Moskva there where it's vulnerable and doesn't have the required level of fleet support, presumably. At the very least, it should have been provided with fleet fighter cover.

    Belgorod being hit goes to the very top I think. Of course even if the politicians were ready to trust Zelensky's team in Istanbul, the job of the military is to prepare for every occasion. They knew how the Ukrainian AF operates, and they knew that with withdrawal of Russian troops from Sumy and Chernigov, bordering Russian regions could be at risk. Why fighter cover was not provided 24/7, and MANPAD troops were not deployed is anyone's guess. Apparently there was fighter cover throughout the month, just not on that early morning. Just a gap was exploited

    I think this operation is do-able and was do-able from the start. But failures have to be learned from, and even more importantly - anticipated.
    Anyone not fulfilling their duties to the maximum should be liable to have the book thrown at them.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:37 pm

    Mir wrote:
    Podlodka77 wrote:
    What problem do you have in your head, man?
    Before my publication for those submarines, HOLE had the last publication, ten days earlier, while NEWS itself was published two days before I published it. Yes, the Fortress published the SECOND news, that is, the NEWS about the date for cutting steel for those submarines. That news has nothing to do with what I published on the March 24th and the news itself is from March 22.

    https://tass.ru/obschestvo/14142549

    Yes exactly now you get it! It's old news already! Glad I could help you out. thumbsup


    The news published by Fortress does not have the same content and was published a MONTH AND A HALF EARLIER. And what's the problem?
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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:42 pm

    The fucking ship has reduced our patience. Let's move on, people. russia
    MIR, there is no need to argue about the little things. I think you're an OK guy.
    And where s that AMERI-****, RTN ?
    This is his "American" vision of the future.


    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #12 - Page 8 Gettyi11


    Last edited by Podlodka77 on Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  littlerabbit Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:47 pm

    I was thinking a lot about this "Moskva" battle cruiser thing...it could be 2 possible enemy attacks, with sea mines or with missiles. You can't control sea mines...but if it was missile attack, we have to ask why now, why not at the beginning of war? There is one explanation running around my mind and it could be connected with Mariupol. Roumors said that serious NATO/US military officiers are stranded/captured there. NATO countries tried to make a deal with Moscow, but Putin refused. Maybe this is NATO answer to that?!  dunno

    The 3rd solution is actual malfunction of the old ship.

    Anyhow, this is a big blunder to BSF command. If the cause of disaster is 1st or 2nd theory, the BSF command shouldn't let it's flagship running around so close to nazi positions...especially we all know it's old and not modernized. Considering it couldn't help much with denazification efforts, it's even more illogical to put "Moskva" there.

    If it's the 3rd theory correct, BSF command is to blame again. What was inoperative ship doing in the battle zone?!

    The point is, ship is not that important as more than 500 souls on it. Lives are always more important than some old ship.

    But, since it is a war raging on Russian borders, those 500 sailors can man up 2 Gorshkovs frigates and a corvette. Considering Gorshkov class frigate is more potent than old Slava class cruiser, the calculus is quite clear. What if all or the most of those sailors got killed? study

    Someone must take the resposibility for this enormous blunder.

    What do you guys think?  I would appreciate any feed back on this issue.


    Last edited by littlerabbit on Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:51 pm

    littlerabbit wrote:I was thinking a lot about this "Moskva" battle cruiser thing...it could be 2 possible enemy attacks, with sea mines or with missiles. You can't control sea mines...but if it was missile attack, we have to ask why now, why not at the beginning of war? There is one explanation running around my mind and it could be connected with Mariupol. Roumors said that serious NATO/US military officiers are stranded/captured there. NATO countries tried to make a deal with Moscow, but Putin refused. Maybe this is NATO answer to that?!  dunno

    The 3rd solution is actual malfunction of the old ship.

    Anyhow, this is a big blunder to BSF command. If the cause of disaster is 1st or 2nd theory, the BSF command shouldn't let it's flagship running around so close to nazi positions...especially we all know it's old and not modernized. Considering it couldn't help much with denazification efforts, it's even more illogical to put "Moskva" there.

    If it's the 3rd theory correct, BSF command is to blame again. What was inoperative ship doing in the battle zone?!

    The point is, ship is not that important as more than 500 souls on it. Lives are always more important than some old ship.

    But, since it is a war raging on Russian borders. those 500 sailors can man up 2 Gorshkovs frigates and a corvette. Considering Gorshkov class frigate is more potent than old Slava class cruiser, the calculus is quite clear. study

    Someone must take the resposibility for this enormous blunder.

    What do you guys think?  I would appreciate any feed back on this issue.

    Forget about her, that story is over. Think of the future and the frigates "Admiral Golovko", "Admiral Isakov", "Admiral Amelko". Think of the submarines "Krasnoyarsk", "Arkhangelsk", "Perm", "Emperor Alexander the Third", "Dmitry Donskoy", etc ..

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    Post  Scorpius Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:56 pm

    https://t.me/SolovievLive/100938



    Doomsday plane in the air


    Last edited by Scorpius on Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #12 - Page 8 Empty Lessons to be learned

    Post  pavi Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:57 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:The reason such crimes occur firstly , is due to incompetent policy

    Why guys are castrated? They were captured,  why? Because they were told to advance without objective

    Why ropucha was lost? It was just chilling in Port where Ukros had tochka nearby , whole units intact with rockets and artillery , but noone considered them a threat until airfield with helicopters and a ropucha were lost

    Why moskva sank? Either mines were sent from Odessa,  or neptun , both occurred due to inaction taken in Odessa sector, by hitting Odessa, and keeping the ship away from the coast until a landing was ready

    Why belgorod was hit? Well army left chernigov, leaving the approach totally open  , instead of destroying those units,  they were left intact , an s400 just downed their MI8, but more of too little too late

    These blunders don't speak of bad military , but of bad political leadership which have asked of the military an impossible task , "special military operation "

    Such a fantasy could only be conjured by the clowns of the Kremlin, the MOD is not responsible to tailor some made up bullshit for political whores

    But should have adamantly said, no we don't do "special military operations" only war, so fire me if you proceed with this stupid shit

    But this is where this had lead, eventually the clown show in Kremlin will accept that retard military operations don't exist, and that they are fighting a war

    But it will take some more blunders to toughen the policy and let the military do what is needed sadly

    Great military mind SunZi once pointed out that: Emperor shall not intervene generals duties. General shall not intervene head of cavalry duties. Head of cavalry shall not intervene archers duties unless he s´is exactly knowing what he is doing. My impression is, that this principle has been forgotten in this war.
    The great Clausewitch also defines war as a extreme violent act and therefore one should not try to think otherwise, because opponent will always do something worse and you keep revenging enemy's actions. These are lessons from two maybe most cited military thinkers of all time (amongst Julius Ceaser and Napoleon)

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    Post  Isos Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:00 pm

    Firebird wrote:2 questions for anyone who might know the answers:-

    1)How viable would an "airborne artillery plane" be?

    By that, I mean a large plane with large calibre artillery firing. |But the added advantage of extra range, and some mobility.

    I heard the US was considering converting B-52s to "arsenal planes".
    But I thought that was more about lots of missiles... which is basically what they are already.

    Could an airborne artillery plane be remote manned?

    2)How viable would it be to quickly add a land based S-400 AAD launcher to a ship.. if the ship is big enough?

    After all, land based variants just drive up, put the stabilisers down and get ready to fire.
    Obviously the radar etc might need to be on a separate ship or site.

    Shitty. Su-34 are in danger against system like Osa and manpad, a larger aircraft like a b-52 or il-76 won't even have time to use its weapons. That's only good against al-quaida and company but with this war you can bet that even there they will get stingers and igla. Ukrainians are for sure already selling them on black market.

    Hard. S-400 needs its launchers to be integrated into the ship and computers also connected to the ship... unless you put it on a barge somehow but then it's not really stable.

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    Post  par far Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:02 pm

    Dozens of Murdered civilians Found in Mariupol after Ukraine retreats (Some hands bound)



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    Post  littlerabbit Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:04 pm

    Podlodka77 wrote:

    Forget about her, that story is over. Think of the future and the frigates "Admiral Golovko", "Admiral Isakov", "Admiral Amelko". Think of the submarines "Krasnoyarsk", "Arkhangelsk", "Perm", "Emperor Alexander the Third", "Dmitry Donskoy", etc ..

    It's not about the ship, but about the command structure...what if they **** up again? Suspect

    Considering new ships...as I understood, Admiral Isakov is already getting built in Crimea shipyards for BSF. I think we are looking at new BSF flagship. russia
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    Post  par far Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:05 pm

    "Air defense is working again in Belgorod."


    https://t.me/intelslava/25317






    "Russian Defense Ministry also reports a downed Su-27 of the Ukrainian Air Force in the Kharkiv direction.
    In addition, judging by the incoming reports, some kind of UAV was shot down by air defense forces in the Belgorod region."

    https://t.me/intelslava/25328


    Last edited by par far on Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

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