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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #12

    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov


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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:49 pm

    Isos wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:My question about their naval loss is wasn't it protected by missile defense batteries? or did gross russian incompetence shine through the clouds once more and left it unprotected despite knowing ukraine got neptunes, if defenses where in place does this mean Neptune can bypass russian AD protections.

    So many questions

    It was more than 200km from Crimea off romanian coast. How would coastal system protect it ?

    Neptune is a sea skiming missile so you detect it and engage it at 30km in good condition. The night of the incident, we still don't know what happened, there was a storm so the inside incident and the missile attack had more chances to happen than if it was day and good weather.

    Another theory could be special ops using underwater small vehicles that came to stick a HEAT sticky mine that detonated the ak-130 munitions.

    No it wasn't a mine, and modern AD systems can operate well enough in storms unless the conditions are terrible and the storm in question wasn't that bad.

    Stealthflanker
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    Post  Stealthflanker Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:50 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:My question about their naval loss is wasn't it protected by missile defense batteries? or did gross russian incompetence shine through the clouds once more and left it unprotected despite knowing ukraine got neptunes, if defenses where in place does this mean Neptune can bypass russian AD protections.

    So many questions


    Yeah and hard to answer. I myself kept some theories ranged from the missile attacks, mines, munition handling issues/safety. All have equal probabilities of happening. Unfortunately the most definitive answer would need to wait for at least some revelation from Russians, like survivor testimonies and expedition to the wreckage. Or a Salvage operation, her P-1000 Vulkan might remain usable for the remainder of the flet just like Kursk.

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    Post  Firebird Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:51 pm

    America has 750 or so bases around the World. ANd vast numbers of ships terrorising countries large and small.
    Russia has the option to arm any one of countless groups who could hit a US interest eg ships off the Yemen, off Iran, Somalia etc etc.

    Russia's frigates and corvettes in the Black and Caspian fleets look pretty powerful and far more modern than Moskva. I'm sure they can do a good job.

    Does anyone know the largest ship that could get down Russia's canal network into the Black Sea?
    Would it be frigates or destroyers, or even a cruiser?
    I know they are in the Med currently, so have the Turkey issue to face.

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    Serberus
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    Post  Serberus Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:56 pm

    https://t.me/zluchka_tactical/199
    Tyumen

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #12 - Page 7 B017bd10

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    Dr.Snufflebug


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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:03 pm

    Firebird wrote:

    Does anyone know the largest ship that could get down Russia's canal network into the Black Sea?
    Would it be frigates or destroyers, or even a cruiser?
    I know they are in the Med currently, so have the Turkey issue to face.

    Corvettes 21630/21631 (the latter is Kalibr-armed) and 22160 can utilize the Don-Volga canal.

    The Zelenodolsk shipyard is just outside Kazan after all, where these were built, and they got into to the Caspian and Black Seas from there.

    The canal network between Volga and the Baltic and White seas is trickier, I think. I don't know if those vessels are able to use it. When they redeployed a few Buyans to the Baltic, they sailed through the Med and Atlantic, big roundtrip.

    Could have been for other reasons though (exercise, demonstrative). After all, rather large cargo ships go all over the place through Russias internal waterways.


    Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug on Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:19 pm; edited 3 times in total

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:07 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:My question about their naval loss is wasn't it protected by missile defense batteries? or did gross russian incompetence shine through the clouds once more and left it unprotected despite knowing ukraine got neptunes, if defenses where in place does this mean Neptune can bypass russian AD protections.

    So many questions

    It was more than 200km from Crimea off romanian coast. How would coastal system protect it ?

    Neptune is a sea skiming missile so you detect it and engage it at 30km in good condition. The night of the incident, we still don't know what happened, there was a storm so the inside incident and the missile attack had more chances to happen than if it was day and good weather.

    Another theory could be special ops using underwater small vehicles that came to stick a HEAT sticky mine that detonated the ak-130 munitions.

    No it wasn't a mine, and modern AD systems can operate well enough in storms unless the conditions are terrible and the storm in question wasn't that bad.


    Moskva's systems aren't modern at all.
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    Post  nomadski Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:12 pm

    What is the Road ahead ? Can there be neutrality in the world ? Can there be peace ? Can all peoples be equal and look and speak identical languages ? Of course not . Just because we can think of a pink Elephant , does not mean that there is one , floating about !

    So understanding the nature of the world , the variability present in nature and the world , one must once and for all , dispense with this idealism . The best one can hope for in human relations , is that we avoid cannibalism . Even that , seems to be within the natural laws at times that we are all subject to .


    And even if all the people in West Ukraine , just vanished from the face of the Earth , " Some " people will replace them , that will be in some way different to other people in the world , with variations , a unique people , like all other people in the world , all other creatures in the world , mostly at war with each other .

    And since it is clear that there must be a people in West Ukraine , and that they will be unique with their own culture , then putting up with them and their idiosyncratic ways , their shifting politics , and not their " neutrality " is what the world has to put up with .

    It is therefore a realistic policy to allow for degrees of freedom in foreign relations , in reciprocal fashion . Those more friendly , benefit in many ways , and those that are hostile , are harmed in many ways ; some have oil and gas supplies , and some get Nukes pointed at them . But nobody is subject to idealistic humanism of neutrality and equality or devout vegetarianism !

    So if Ukrainians and others station NATO in  country with Nukes , then Russia can reciprocate , instead of the desire for international utopian peace and brotherhood .


    Last edited by nomadski on Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:21 pm; edited 3 times in total
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:15 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Russian MOD confirmed the ship was being towed and went down, only reason the ship would be towed is because it was damaged and lost power. Ukraine did get Neptunes, so all the facts align with the claim the ship got hit by them.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-flagship-missile-cruise-ship-has-sunk-after-fire-2022-04-14/

    Not even US intelligence can confirm that it was struck by ANY missile. The fake "proof" posted by the Ukrs was footage from a Tanzanian tanker.
    It is possible that the Ukr missile did hit the ship but for now there is no proof so stick with facts because almost everything the Ukrs posted so far turned out to be fake, but I guess you desperately want to believe it.

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    Post  Mir Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:17 pm

    Podlodka77 wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    Podlodka77 wrote:

    I just passed the link from TASS, nothing else.

    Out of curiosity, why did you do that when Hinex1988 had already posted that information in the MoD readout a few posts earlier?

    Oh and in the first line of that post you even misquoted it.

    I did not see that he published the news.

    To be honest you do seem to post a lot of things that has all ready been posted very recently. It is kind of annoying.

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:23 pm

    Mir wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Russian MOD confirmed the ship was being towed and went down, only reason the ship would be towed is because it was damaged and lost power. Ukraine did get Neptunes, so all the facts align with the claim the ship got hit by them.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-flagship-missile-cruise-ship-has-sunk-after-fire-2022-04-14/

    Not even US intelligence can confirm that it was struck by ANY missile. The fake "proof" posted by the Ukrs was footage from a Tanzanian tanker.
    It is possible that the Ukr missile did hit the ship but for now there is no proof so stick with facts because almost everything the Ukrs posted so far turned out to be fake, but I guess you desperately want to believe it.

    There is more evidence it did then didn't, what else caused the ship to lose power then or are russians sailors that bad they sunk their own boat in the seas, you can sat what you wish but there are questions that need answers.
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    Post  Mir Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:26 pm

    Serberus wrote:https://t.me/zluchka_tactical/199
    Tyumen

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #12 - Page 7 B017bd10

    Those are from very very deep storage as they are all based on the Zil-131 chassis! But I guess they will be equally useful as anything else in clearing the Donbass cauldron.

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:31 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    There is more evidence it did then didn't, what else caused the ship to lose power then or are russians sailors that bad they sunk their own boat in the seas, you can sat what you wish but there are questions that need answers.

    Then be my guest - feel free to present your solid beyond doubt evidence.

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    Post  GarryB Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:43 pm

    Maybe someone with insight into the Kremlin can explain how 80k Russian soldiers are supposed to defeat 500k Ukrainian soldiers, marines, militia, and civil defense fighters.

    They seem to be making their objectives....

    With artillery and air power you don't need a big force... look at the taliban being defeated by Afghan forces supported by US special forces calling in air power.... the afghan force doesn't need to be big or powerful... if the taliban form up to fight they get hit by air power and destroyed. If they hide then they get mopped up in small pockets, and if they run then the air power can run them down and the afghans take the territory.

    The only way a smaller force can beat a larger one , is massive bombardment

    If you send in 80k guys against 200k , you need to bombard the area prior

    It's a simple concept

    If you send those 80k against 200k and hit some logistics , but don't do anything to the manpower

    It's going to be a bloodbath

    As the smaller force moves around because it has fuel, the larger enemy force has to form up to stop them... every where and every time they form up obliterate them with artillery and air power... it isn't hard... if they try to run your smaller force can chase them down and slaughter them.

    Bottom line is that there should be a stalinesque purge of the Russian navy leadership since they're so incompetent to lose their high value cruiser.

    Funny how the solution is always remove putin or remove the people in charge... enemies of Russia seem so keen on blaming every little thing on their leadership which makes it clear how they fear them... all the more reason to keep them on I would say.

    Those complaining that 80K soldiers can't defeat much larger groups of soldiers by surrounding them and cutting them off and then crushing the pockets... was done by both sides multiple times on the eastern front in WWII.

    This 10d chess , incompetence cover-up has to stop

    As you say... you are not Putin and have no control.

    As the great war criminal WInston Churchill once said:

    War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.

    You need to leave the table and grow up a bit before trying to follow what is happening... posting opinion based on Kievs propaganda, is just endorsing the propaganda of nazis.

    No Russian warships we're lost in the winter war. Let that sink in.

    There were no Russian warships in the Winter War shit for brains.

    Russia made the mistake when they allowed NATO to decide who gets to be in NATO, another nonsense that needs to be corrected

    Of course... when Putin signed that document that allowed countries to join HATO if they wanted... that was Putins biggest mistake.

    Putins solution is fine... more orc nazis have died in the last few weeks than the last 8 years.

    A suitable retaliation first is to rebuild the Moscow ship .

    Suitable response would be to lay down a new destroyer and call it Moskva.

    Basically the principle is the same for everyone. All cool until the war comes to your own yard

    It is not complicated.

    The US wanted to sharpen and shape the Ukraine into a weapon to kill Russians.

    Putin has sent Russian troops into the Ukraine to destroy that weapon and melt its edges and break it into pieces... just like the west did with Yugoslavia two decades ago.

    The negotiations mean nothing because the things Zelensky signs are worth nothing anyway, this is about destroying Ukrainian weapons and Orcs and Nazis.

    [quote]Because they know what it means. The Moskva was a major component of Russian strike power in the Black Sea, and nuclear deterrant as well as it can be armed with tactical nucleaf warheads.
    Without it Russia's position is weakened significantly and it has to take decisive action to secure the entire Ukrainian coast.[/wuote]

    Bullshit, it was largely obsolete and had less communication equipment than their new Corvettes.

    I wouldn't have started the war. Not like this. I still stick to this position. But whatever, the momentum of events is going only in one direction and I don't think even the leaders at the top can stop it at this stage.

    If you were in charge Russia would be fucked years ago.

    This forum needs to be cleaned up.

    Was going to, but thought these 5th columnist cowards need to be visible and obvious.

    Russia has been through worse crisis than this, and many times. Our heartland is secure. But we do need a mental shift.

    You need to deal with a future without the west and the US and realise your nukes keep you safe and this war will remove nazis from your doorstep and release some of your neighbours from a horrible future at their mercy.

    The west will not be the same when the taps get turned off.

    They talk tough but they are used to very comfortable lives and have already migrated widely around the world to escape the situation in Europe... mass migration number three? (original one then one after WWII ended and now).

    Turkey can turn around tomorrow and let the NATO fleet in

    What then?

    Fill the Black Sea with smart mines and watch the fun...

    We need all the ships we can get and we just lost our biggest one

    The two Kirovs are bigger and vastly more useful as is the Kuznetsov.

    The Moskva would be useful after a decent upgrade... but a place filler without one.

    If turks let nato in wel hit em with Bulava

    Lmfao

    Fucking idiots

    HATO ships in the Black Sea are fish in a barrel.... they would be terribly vulnerable and not really capable of doing very much at all.

    Kinzhal would sink anything from shore to shore in minutes.

    The rules regarding entry to the Black Sea means ships of greater than 15K ton are not permitted and neither are aircraft carriers... not that it would matter much.

    The flagship and command ship of one of the 4 major fleets has been sunk. This creates a serious security crisis of escalation with NATO. It is no longer possible to carry on the operation as it was before, we are threatened with conventional war with NATO, even unofficially, on the territory of the Ukraine - and the calculation will be made that a larger foothold is necessary immediately to stave off the threat to mainland Russian territory

    It was a place holder and token ship they didn't bother to upgrade... that is how unimportant it was.

    "We took a major loss because it is a proxy war. NATO is commanding Ukrainian forces." Okay, what is the next step to victory for Russia?

    They will have been monitoring HATO communications with buildings and locations in the Ukraine, in Kiev and elsewhere... they could start bombing those instead of just listening.

    Well, I waited 49 days to piss, moan, and have a few sippy-poos of vodka.

    Going back into hiding. Hopefully things will be better in another week or two.

    Take FP and PD and a few others with you... you can easily find them.... the ones that upvoted each other in your press releases direct from Zelensky himself.

    NATO has voiced its intention to help the Ukraine retake Crimea,

    Which is something Putin and the people of Crimea will never accept so that is great in terms of your fears of him selling out and giving up too much in negotiations.

    The prestige lost and the morale boost to the Ukraine nullifies all results in the Donbass to date.

    You think losing a ship is comparable to liberating the people of the Donbass then you are a fool.

    One moment you demand he goes easy because they are all Russians too, and then they sink a ship and you think what... kill them all...

    Hormonal bitch.

    Russia has to find some way of 'pussyfooting' ultimately. When it comes to the Ukrainian rank and file and the general population. Their Nazi leadership and assorted fanatics are highly expendable.

    They have tried to be nice and humane and it hasn't worked... they need to start grinding those cauldrons and hunting down civilian vehicles that drive around a lot.

    I'm not scared shitless. I have a backbone as one needs to have in this situation

    It doesn't mean I can't write what I honestly think here on this forum

    Spreading Nazi propaganda suggests you have a very flexible anus.

    Sadly I can confirm all of this. The narrative from official Washington and the twittersphere is that Putin and the Russian government must be taken down and placed before a show trial and that Russia must be carved up. You are fighting Satan. There are many of us in the west who do support you, but our voices are increasingly stifled on social media. Please, rise up, and make yourselves worthy of your ancestors of Nevsky, of Donskoi, or Minin and Pozharksy, of Kutuzov and Suvorov, of Zhukov and Konev, you must not fail. You cannot fail.

    They also said Assad must go too of course....

    To be honest, Russia could use some EU style commissions. Sure, they take forever and are boring as hell, but they help straighten out deep lying issues.

    Yeah, when I have a problem I always solve it by thinking about what the EU would do...  Rolling Eyes

    The Moskva had search radars and tracking radars. It has S-300F and OSA as well as 6 x 30mm gatling guns and 130mm guns as well, each with radar guidance and the ability to independently shoot down subsonic targets at a range of distances. Yet it could not intercept the incoming Neptune cruise missiles.

    Which is why continuing to claim it was sunk by the Ukraine using missiles is so absurd.

    I'm curious if now NATO ISR asset will also be jammed. Considering the incredible value of information they could provide.

    Bomb facilities in the Ukraine it communicates with.

    I know this will trigger fanboys but hey you gotta ask the question "How this happened" this isn't like losing a tank, this is a much bigger deal

    We all know exactly what happened but we are not telling you obviously.

    Russian MOD confirmed the ship was being towed and went down, only reason the ship would be towed is because it was damaged and lost power. Ukraine did get Neptunes, so all the facts align with the claim the ship got hit by them.

    No they don't because Kiev claimed they got two hits on the ship and it sank immediately... there was no towing mentioned they said it turned over and sank after being hit.

    Reuters is bullshit propaganda.

    Moskva's systems aren't modern at all.

    Capable enough to deal with sea skimming missiles.

    There is more evidence it did then didn't,

    No, there isn't. Claims from sources proven to be liars in the past does not equate to evidence or facts.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:54 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Russian MOD confirmed the ship was being towed and went down, only reason the ship would be towed is because it was damaged and lost power. Ukraine did get Neptunes, so all the facts align with the claim the ship got hit by them.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-flagship-missile-cruise-ship-has-sunk-after-fire-2022-04-14/

    Not even US intelligence can confirm that it was struck by ANY missile. The fake "proof" posted by the Ukrs was footage from a Tanzanian tanker.
    It is possible that the Ukr missile did hit the ship but for now there is no proof so stick with facts because almost everything the Ukrs posted so far turned out to be fake, but I guess you desperately want to believe it.

    There is more evidence it did then didn't, what else caused the ship to lose power then or are russians sailors that bad they sunk their own boat in the seas, you can sat what you wish but there are questions that need answers.

    What makes you beleive it lost power ? They evacuated the crew so there was no one to man it thus they had to tow it.
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    Post  kvs Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:54 pm

    Mir wrote:
    zorobabel wrote:Russian forces are apparently coming under increasing pressure in the city of Kherson as Ukrainian counter-attacks make progress in Kherson Oblast.
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQVh_ExXwAMN3oz?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

    By just looking at your map it seems to me that there are some trapped Ukrs near Kherson - or am I missing something?

    There were attempts a while back for a big breakthrough to Kherson from around Nokolaev but they fizzled out. I would trust
    Yuri Podolyaka's maps over this one. There is no pocket of Kiev regime forces near Kherson.

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    Post  Serberus Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:56 pm

    https://t.me/c/1407069800/670

    Bombers and escorts over Tula oblast


    Last edited by Serberus on Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  JohninMK Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:57 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Eugenio Argentina wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:My question about their naval loss is wasn't it protected by missile defense batteries? or did gross russian incompetence shine through the clouds once more and left it unprotected despite knowing ukraine got neptunes, if defenses where in place does this mean Neptune can bypass russian AD protections.

    So many questions

    I know this will trigger fanboys but hey you gotta ask the question "How this happened" this isn't like losing a tank, this is a much bigger deal


    First you must put the sources of information on which you base your opinion.
    Or is it pure speculation without foundation?
    In other words: talk about taste.

    Laughing

    Russian MOD confirmed the ship was being towed and went down, only reason the ship would be towed is because it was damaged and lost power. Ukraine did get Neptunes, so all the facts align with the claim the ship got hit by them.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-flagship-missile-cruise-ship-has-sunk-after-fire-2022-04-14/

    As far as I am aware the Pentagon is still holding to the line that they don't know what caused the incident. Given their intel assets they should surely have seen the heat trails of AShM?

    Given the location, in the west down near Snake Island, and the likely damage on the waterline, is there not a chance that she hit one of the loose Ukrainian sea mines known to be adrift?

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    Post  Azi Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:57 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:My question about their naval loss is wasn't it protected by missile defense batteries? or did gross russian incompetence shine through the clouds once more and left it unprotected despite knowing ukraine got neptunes, if defenses where in place does this mean Neptune can bypass russian AD protections.

    So many questions

    I know this will trigger fanboys but hey you gotta ask the question "How this happened" this isn't like losing a tank, this is a much bigger deal
    The incident is really very mysterious. It should be noted that the Neptun is a development of the 3M24 (Kh-35) and features an active radar seeker. It can switch from an active to a passive search mode, but only if it is already riding on a target ship's radar beam. So the destruction shouldn't be a heroic feat. I do not know if the missile was guided to the target via a data link, this would only be possible via the Global Hawk drone which was circling over the Black Sea at the time and the USA would therefore be a direct war party. I don't believe in a Byraktar drone, it would never have come near the Moskva. So far, the record of the Bayraktar drones has been disappointing.

    The 3M24/KH-35 (Neptun) is actually a fire and forget missile and not designed for a data link...maybe missiles were modified. Which would suggest that the rocket was only used after about 50 days.

    What also bothers me is....was a Russian AWACS currently over the Black Sea or not? A missile attack would thus have been noticed early on.

    What speaks for a sea mine is the stormy sea and the proximity to Odessa. Many mines have been deployed off Odessa and two have already been found in the Bosphorus. Would be a stroke of luck and also seems very unrealistic, but not impossible.

    I don't think it was an accident, because something like that happens very very rarely and most of the time you don't lose the whole ship right away. I can easily imagine a fire in the repair dock, but in combat at sea?!

    It was either a saturation attack, a lucky hit, or probably a long-planned attack with modified missiles.


    Last edited by Azi on Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:19 pm; edited 2 times in total
    Eugenio Argentina
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    Post  Eugenio Argentina Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:57 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Russian MOD confirmed the ship was being towed and went down, only reason the ship would be towed is because it was damaged and lost power. Ukraine did get Neptunes, so all the facts align with the claim the ship got hit by them.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-flagship-missile-cruise-ship-has-sunk-after-fire-2022-04-14/

    Not even US intelligence can confirm that it was struck by ANY missile. The fake "proof" posted by the Ukrs was footage from a Tanzanian tanker.
    It is possible that the Ukr missile did hit the ship but for now there is no proof so stick with facts because almost everything the Ukrs posted so far turned out to be fake, but I guess you desperately want to believe it.

    There is more evidence it did then didn't, what else caused the ship to lose power then or are russians sailors that bad they sunk their own boat in the seas, you can sat what you wish but there are questions that need answers.




    The only reality is that there is no proof.
    Only rumors of pro-Ukrainian ghost accounts, taken over by other ghost accounts or by keyboard analysts, who grab anything in order to attack Russia.
    The Ukrainian version grew little by little, repeating all those rumors.
    When "evidence" was provided, it was clearly false and instantly exposed.
    The problem is that you try to put the anti-Russian lies in this forum, under the so-called objective gaze.
    The objective is that THERE IS NO REAL PROOF OF WHAT THE UKRAINIANS SAY.
    If you don't provide proof, you'd better stop wasting our time on this.


    Last edited by Eugenio Argentina on Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  kvs Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:01 pm

    franco wrote:Zelensky announced 44,000 Ukrainian troops in Donbass

    At the moment, the strength of the Ukrainian military group in the Donbass is 44 thousand people. This was stated by President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky in an interview with the BBC.

    According to him, the Donbass will become the central place of the fighting, which will affect "the course of this war."

    On February 17, the situation in Donbass escalated sharply. The DNR and LNR announced a lot of shelling by the armed forces of Ukraine.

    On February 21, Russian President Vladimir Putin signed decrees recognizing the independence of the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics, under which he instructed the Russian Ministry of Defense to ensure the maintenance of peace on their territory.

    On February 24, the Russian president announced that he had decided to conduct a military special operation in Ukraine in response to a request for help from the heads of the LPR and DPR.

    The decision to conduct the operation was the reason for new sanctions against Russia by the United States and its allies.

    https://www-gazeta-ru.translate.goog/army/news/2022/04/15/17574296.shtml?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

    Zelensky is not credible. His owners have directed him to throw everything he has at the LDNR. His owners are also mentally deficient.

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:07 pm

    Isos wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Russian MOD confirmed the ship was being towed and went down, only reason the ship would be towed is because it was damaged and lost power. Ukraine did get Neptunes, so all the facts align with the claim the ship got hit by them.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-flagship-missile-cruise-ship-has-sunk-after-fire-2022-04-14/

    Not even US intelligence can confirm that it was struck by ANY missile. The fake "proof" posted by the Ukrs was footage from a Tanzanian tanker.
    It is possible that the Ukr missile did hit the ship but for now there is no proof so stick with facts because almost everything the Ukrs posted so far turned out to be fake, but I guess you desperately want to believe it.

    There is more evidence it did then didn't, what else caused the ship to lose power then or are russians sailors that bad they sunk their own boat in the seas, you can sat what you wish but there are questions that need answers.

    What makes you beleive it lost power ? They evacuated the crew so there was no one to man it thus they had to tow it.

    If they where towing a ship that normally sails under its own power double so during a storm that means power was lost

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    Post  Firebird Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:14 pm

    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:
    Firebird wrote:

    Does anyone know the largest ship that could get down Russia's canal network into the Black Sea?
    Would it be frigates or destroyers, or even a cruiser?
    I know they are in the Med currently, so have the Turkey issue to face.

    Corvettes 21630/21631 (the latter is Kalibr-armed) and 22160 can utilize the Don-Volga canal.

    The Zelenodolsk shipyard is just outside Kazan after all, where these were built, and they got into to the Caspian and Black Seas from there.

    The canal network between Volga and the Baltic and White seas is trickier, I think. I don't know if those vessels are able to use it. When they redeployed a few Buyans to the Baltic, they sailed through the Med and Atlantic, big roundtrip.

    Could have been for other reasons though (exercise, demonstrative). After all, rather large cargo ships go all over the place through Russias internal waterways.

    I had a nose and very approximately speaking I suspect a frigate could get thro but a destroyer is about 7 feet too wide in the beam. Plus there might be other issues with tonnage in any locks. Might be completely inaccurate... I don't know.

    Not that I think it would be an issue given the arms level of frigates and corvettes.
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    Post  JohninMK Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:18 pm

    Apparently hit last night were

    Bowl of Borsch
    @PelmeniPusha
    ·
    13h
    💥 Kiev
    💥 Kharkov
    💥 Ivano-Frankivsk
    💥 Nikolaev
    💥 Krivoy Rog
    💥 Zhytomyr

    Gonzalo Lira
    @realGonzaloLira
    ·
    13h
    Tonight is very busy in Ukraine:

    ▪Kiev: Massive explosions in center from 1am, some parts going dark. Many say Calibre strikes, no confirmation yet.

    ▪Kharkov: I heard massive shelling starting at 1am.

    ▪Ivano-Frankivsk: The last oil refinery in Ukraine has been destroyed.


    NEXTA
    @nexta_tv
    · 12h
    #Ukrainian media reports about powerful explosions in #Kyiv.

    City ​​CCTV cameras shows that as the result of the shellings some districts  of the city were left without electricity.

    There were also reports of explosions in #Kharkiv and #Kherson.

    marqs
    @MarQs__
    ·
    4h
    Heavy explosions were audible in #Kyiv last night. Russian MoD says they targeted the Vizar Zhulyany Machine-Building Plant in #Kyiv with cruise missiles.


    ZOKA
    @200_zoka
    ·
    3h
    Azov tried breakthrough from AzovSteel, it ended same as Marines from Ilyich factory


    Last edited by JohninMK on Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:20 pm

    Scorpius wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:

    If what Python is saying is true (and it most likely is) sinking of Moskva could definitely have effect on war but not in the way most people think
    so far, the main reaction I see in the Russian media space is rage. I don't think enraging Russia is a victory for Ukraine and its Western overlords.

    That's a healthy reaction

    And this rage should have been expressed back when Russian POWs where getting their balls cut off

    Think about that for a second, what will happen to those boys now?

    People lose their limbs in war but small comfort they can get is that at least people might say "thank you for your service" or that they would get invited to military parades

    What can these guys expect people to say to them now? Something like "wow, really?" followed by chuckles behind their backs? Would they even want to face other people after this?

    THIS HERE should have gotten you all this angry and made you feel rage, your soldiers getting mutilated and castrated not losing some 45 year old obsolete rust bucket built by a country that no longer even exist

    You can always build new ships but those boys will never grow new balls



    You need to get your priorities straight, stop losing your shit over expendable merchandise no matter how cool looking and focus on finishing the job properly

    People are what matter, machines are just there to be used







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    Post  flamming_python Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:33 pm

    Podlodka77 wrote:As for Arkahngelsk and FP, I have to write the following. If you two are Russians, I must write to you that Ukraine is no longer a "brotherly" country.
    We Serbs have never had a high opinion of those same "Ukrainians", that is, those who in that country declare their "uniqueness and statehood" in relation to Russia.

    Putin did not make political mistakes, so did the Bolsheviks and the stinking piece of shit Lenin.
    Many Russians, unfortunately, still love the Communists and the USSR, even though that shit Lenin gave fertile ground for what is happening in Ukraine today. About 100 years ago Lenin gave to "Ukraine" everything from Kharkov to Odessa. Lenin did everything he could to stay in power and expand it. It is one thing to glorify the victory in the Great Patriotic War, because that victory is great and holy, while it is another to glorify Stalin and especially that stinking garbage - Lenin.  Well, your "brothers" turned against that victory and today they proudly wear the symbols of Nazism. I have already written that I would throw Lenin into the Moscow sewer.

    And yes, Papadragon is right, Russia should stop joking and and those proud "Ukrainians" should be trampled, crushed.

    Those who call themselves "proudly Ukrainians" today mostly hate Russia, and that has not lasted since 2014, it has lasted for decades. The Americans have seen Ukraine's antagonism towards Russia in the past decades and used it against Russia.

    You criticize Lenin, but in 1917-1920 he retook greater Russia and all its foreign-supported splinters such the Ukrainian People's Republic and so on while fighting with much worse odds



    Here it's early days still granted.

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