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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #11

    zorobabel
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    Post  zorobabel Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:50 pm

    https://twitter.com/JackDetsch/status/1514624101419307013

    Russia launched fewer than 200 sorties into Ukraine yesterday. This compares with 1,500 sorties per day flown by American-led forces during the active phase of invasion of Iraq.

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:52 pm


    Exclamation

    I'd just like to address a certain urban myth that has been gaining popularity even here lately which is that Ukrainians are some kind of ''large well trained NATO style military with quality equipment''

    Let's get one thing out of the way: Ukrainians are not some ''NATO level'' military, they are not some ''experienced'' troops, they don't have some ''Soviet Army experience'' (whatever the f*ck that means),  they are not some ''motivated freedom fighters'' or any PR bullshit like that

    They are the same mob of inbred Fetal Alcohol Syndrome Nazi zombies that was routinely getting fucked into oblivion by NAF

    Their only qualification is being able to hold AK-47, their only training is knowing how to hide behind civilians, their only combat experience is shelling civilian areas and their only motivation is knowing how to blindly obey everything the man on big TV tells them to do

    They are almost identical to African child soldiers, only difference being that they are not as fast as them, they are larger targets and they have access to better narcotics instead of usual brown-brown that child soldiers in Africa use




    Every single ''success'' that Ukrainians had so far was entirely the result of Russia fucking up and/or pussyfooting and not of anything Ukrainians did

    The moment Russia stops fucking around all these Nazi methhead apes will get shredded into oblivion just as they always do


    So I don't want to hear anything more about ''Ukrainian fighting skills'' or any similar bullshit, nothing changed since 50 days ago other that Russians deciding to softball this entire project




    (And before anyone goes off about ''NATO training'' please spare me, over here we went hard and heavy on that magical NATO training with only result being that unit quality deteriorated and we spent past decade trying to fix that crap, only new thing NATO training gives you is ability to use cool stickers on your shit)


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    Post  limb Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:52 pm

    kvs wrote:Why is this supposed to be some sort of major embarrassment?   Even if it was an accident and not a mine, missile or sabotage it would
    still be a non-trivial risk.   Are all the jet crashes also major "embarrassments".   People should stop living in pulp fiction reality.  

    The most important thing is that most of the sailors were saved.   If their rescue was f*cked up, then that would be unforgivable.


    Cope

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    Scorpius
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    Post  Scorpius Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:52 pm

    Podlodka77 wrote:
    Scorpius wrote:
    Podlodka77 wrote:It's time for tactical nuclear strikes.

    Do you have no relatives in Ukraine? I have. And many have. are you suggesting a nuclear strike on our relatives?

    Western Ukraine
    The place where my relatives live. Or do you think that there is no ethnically Russian population in Western Ukraine?

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    VARGR198
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    Post  VARGR198 Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:56 pm

    I don't believe the Moskva was hit by any kind of Ukrainian missile. From what I've seen it was just an onboard fire as there were no casualties amongst the crew, and it it was a missile hit there would have been deaths.

    The Moskva however was very old and was being replaced soon anyways by a Admiral Gorshkov-class frigate currently under construction in Crimea.

    Thats why the ship had never undergoing a modernisation, and likely had old poor fire suspressants.

    Don't know if the hull is actually still afloat or did sink under tow, but if its still afloat the Russians will scrap it.

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:57 pm

    crod wrote:Of little consequence now but it gives full credence to the Uki story that it was struck and sunk over being towed and sunk suggesting it was the Russians engaging in face saving propaganda instead of the Ukrainian so called propaganda claims.
    The Russians for the sake of their own people should provide footage of it being towed to counter.

    It's of quite significant consequence as it deprives the fleet of its longest range anti-air asset.
    Now it's unclear if we have the ships left to cover the landing vessels of the naval infantry and in general enforce the blockade of Odessa.
    Not to mention the strike power of the Moskva - it's old but very powerful.

    The Ukrs are claiming a Bayraktar took out its radar and thus its main air defence capabilities, leaving just the AK-630s. Then it was hit by two Neptunes.
    We'll see the truth of the matter but if it was left unsupported then that's a pretty unbelievable risk - and indeed our fleet paid the price.

    If the landing vessels can no longer be supported then the Ukrainians are free to redeploy the rest of their forces around Odessa to the Kherson-Nikolayev line.

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    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:58 pm

    Scorpius wrote:
    Podlodka77 wrote:
    Scorpius wrote:
    Podlodka77 wrote:It's time for tactical nuclear strikes.

    Do you have no relatives in Ukraine? I have. And many have. are you suggesting a nuclear strike on our relatives?

    Western Ukraine
    The place where my relatives live. Or do you think that there is no ethnically Russian population in Western Ukraine?

    I already wrote that I wrote it out of anger, ok ... ?

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:01 pm

    kvs wrote:Why is this supposed to be some sort of major embarrassment?   Even if it was an accident and not a mine, missile or sabotage it would
    still be a non-trivial risk.   Are all the jet crashes also major "embarrassments".   People should stop living in pulp fiction reality.  

    The most important thing is that most of the sailors were saved.   If their rescue was f*cked up, then that would be unforgivable.


    It's not a major embarrassment, its a national humiliation and inevitably an international one too.

    I'm glad the sailors were saved. But that takes nothing away from the incredible loss of faith in our military leadership and the additional difficulties this will translate to in the situation on the ground too. We can easily lose more than 600 extra people due to having a smaller force superiority in the Donbass and the increased morale and determination of a force that should by all rights be on its last legs. Instead our fleet handed their regime a victory.

    And all due to underestimation of enemy capabilities and general imperial hubris, once again, same as the march on Kiev.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Erk
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    Post  Erk Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:02 pm

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) - Russia's Moskva missile cruiser, the flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, has been hit be heavy fire and the following detonation of ammunition, the Russian Defense Ministry said on Thursday.
    "As result of the fire that hit the Moskva missile cruiser, the ammunition has detonated. The ship has been seriously damaged," the ministry said in a statement.

    https://sputniknews.com/20220413/russias-moskva-missile-cruiser-seriously-damaged-by-fire-blast-of-ammunition-ministry-says-1094745904.html
    https://sputniknews.com/20220414/russian-defense-ministry-damaged-moskva-cruiser-sunk-after-entering-stormy-waters-1094769157.html

    Sounds like a missile strike to me, or some other offensive weapon.
    Stealthflanker
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    Post  Stealthflanker Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:03 pm

    flamming_python wrote:

    If the landing vessels can no longer be supported then the Ukrainians are free to redeploy the rest of their forces around Odessa to the Kherson-Nikolayev line.

    and Russians better reinforce more for Kherson as it's even in greater danger more than ever now.
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:03 pm

    flamming_python wrote:What if the Americans are playing it down because they ordered it?

    What difference does it make?

    Like I said before, if Russia managed to have their ship hit by Ukrainian missile then Russia didn’t deserve to have that ship in the first place

    Now with it sinking to the bottom we won't know if it was hit by a missile or a mine so Ukrainians get to decide what happened and they say it was the missile

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:08 pm

    Stealthflanker wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:

    If the landing vessels can no longer be supported then the Ukrainians are free to redeploy the rest of their forces around Odessa to the Kherson-Nikolayev line.

    and Russians better reinforce more for Kherson as it's even in greater danger more than ever now.

    To be honest, it's not in real danger. Russia can blanket all these units in artillery and air power if it wants to, as it did when they attempted to advance a few weeks ago.

    But if Russia had gotten the Donbass group to surrender then perhaps these guys would have given up next

    Not any more

    And once again, all thanks to the dickheads who thought it was a good idea to leave the Moskva without support and in general not take threats too seriously.
    All thanks to them. Essentially a strategic-level failure. Now the conflict will take more lives and go on for longer. A general collapse of Ukrainian morale and mass surrenders is a lot further away. Truly, I'm amazed at the implications.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:09 pm

    limb wrote:
    kvs wrote:Why is this supposed to be some sort of major embarrassment?   Even if it was an accident and not a mine, missile or sabotage it would
    still be a non-trivial risk.   Are all the jet crashes also major "embarrassments".   People should stop living in pulp fiction reality.  

    The most important thing is that most of the sailors were saved.   If their rescue was f*cked up, then that would be unforgivable.


    Cope

    Retard. You troll this board with phony concern and then attack people for stating obvious facts.

    Go back to rooting for Elensky and his patrons.

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    Erk
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    Post  Erk Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:11 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:What if the Americans are playing it down because they ordered it?

    What difference does it make?

    Like I said before, if Russia managed to have their ship hit by Ukrainian missile then Russia didn’t deserve to have that ship in the first place

    Now with it sinking to the bottom we won't know if it was hit by a missile or a mine so Ukrainians get to decide what happened and they say it was the missile

    The Russian military would have taken countless photos of the damage, drones would have been all over it, radar logs would show up missiles, and there are always satellites if the sky was clear. The ship itself would have many onboard cameras, and the crew. The responders would have cameras, and military use helmet cams. It's almost impossible to fart nowadays without someone recording it.


    Last edited by Erk on Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  kvs Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:13 pm

    All the clowns who are bitching about this incident clearly want it to matter a lot for Russians. For them to hurt.
    This is why they froth at the mouth trying hard and show themselves to be the pro-Ukr fanbois that they really
    are. The style is identical to the one infesting the Ukr social media.

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    Post  mr_hd Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:16 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:


    So I don't want to hear anything more about ''Ukrainian fighting skills'' or any similar bullshit, nothing changed since 50 days ago other that Russians deciding to softball this entire project




    (And before anyone goes off about ''NATO training'' please spare me, over here we went hard and heavy on that magical NATO training with only result being that unit quality deteriorated and we spent past decade trying to fix that crap, only new thing NATO training gives you is ability to use cool stickers on your shit)


    I think you are wrong. First Russian army is capable but it is defense army that was never designed to do real power projection on such scale that is front line in Ukraine. Second millions of Russians do have relatives in Ukraine which does not make big motivation for Russian soldiers.

    Regarding Ukranian training, Ukraine went way more into acquiring practical knowledge and experiences aside of NATO programs. For example they went to Croatia years ago and asked war veterans to give lectures to their forces and pass knowledge. They have very cleaver and creative command...and are super motivated, their survival as nation is at stake and those are people that have Cossacks as ancestors...that survived Hitler and Stalin...all those factors are real...

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    Post  Stealthflanker Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:20 pm

    flamming_python wrote:

    And once again, all thanks to the dickheads who thought it was a good idea to leave the Moskva without support and in general not take threats too seriously.
    All thanks to them. Essentially a strategic-level failure. Now the conflict will take more lives and go on for longer. A general collapse of Ukrainian morale and mass surrenders is a lot further away. Truly, I'm amazed at the implications.

    we'll see how they would try to fix this. Hope this would be the -Last- fkd up and really get the top brass out there in their head.
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    Post  mnztr Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:25 pm

    Erk wrote:MOSCOW (Sputnik) - Russia's Moskva missile cruiser, the flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, has been hit be heavy fire and the following detonation of ammunition, the Russian Defense Ministry said on Thursday.
    "As result of the fire that hit the Moskva missile cruiser, the ammunition has detonated. The ship has been seriously damaged," the ministry said in a statement.

    https://sputniknews.com/20220413/russias-moskva-missile-cruiser-seriously-damaged-by-fire-blast-of-ammunition-ministry-says-1094745904.html
    https://sputniknews.com/20220414/russian-defense-ministry-damaged-moskva-cruiser-sunk-after-entering-stormy-waters-1094769157.html

    Sounds like a missile strike to me, or some other offensive weapon.


    I think its bad translation, it means a fire occurred (i.e it was struck by an incidence of fire) which detonated the ammo. But I would not be surprised if it was hit by a missile. It was only 90 KM from odessa.

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    Post  flamming_python Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:26 pm

    kvs wrote:All the clowns who are bitching about this incident clearly want it to matter a lot for Russians.   For them to hurt.
    This is why they froth at the mouth trying hard and show themselves to be the pro-Ukr fanbois that they really
    are.  The style is identical to the one infesting the Ukr social media.


    It does hurt, and it does matter a lot. The ship was not only the flagship of the BSF, it carried the name of the capital too

    But I'm just as disappointed in the reaction of some people here, and on Russian telegram channels.

    What do you think the emotions of Kiev's army of warcriminals were, when they pierced the eyes of unarmed prisoners of war, or cut their throats and then finished them off with AK fire?

    Of course it was also the rageful reaction to helplessness over a string of defeats, that of a beast that when cornered lashes out.
    But if you allow yourself to lose your humanity in even a desperate situation, or just over some humiliation - then you are exactly a beast, and not a human being.

    And our boys will not stoop to that level. Neither I hope, will our commanders, by ordering a bunch of punitive strikes - instead of ones necessary to carry out the objectives at hand in the Donbass, Nikolayev and Kharkov areas, stop the flow of arms and mercs, and neutralize any further threat to our naval forces.
    Because killing more enemy for the sake of killing more enemy, and not for the sake of achieving immediate objectives or furthering the wider strategy - is not much better than what they have done.

    This war will be won or lost purely by being better than the clique of savages that orders about and rules within the enemy.
    Because that's the key to winning support on the ground, and gaining the surrender of the Ukrainian rank and file.

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    Post  mnztr Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:28 pm

    limb wrote:
    zorobabel wrote:
    limb wrote:This a huge embarrassment. How does a localized ammo detonation cause a ship to sink? Also the black sea has quite small waves, never exceeding 4m . Its storms are minor compared to oceanic storms.
    More likely to be a mine or missile strike than an ammo detonation. Yes, there was a fire, but the cause of the fire was never indicated.

    A missile strike is more embarrassing since the Neptune is subsonic.

    Just cos its subsonic does not make it useless. Its still a formidable missile.

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    Post  x_54_u43 Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:30 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:What if the Americans are playing it down because they ordered it?

    What difference does it make?

    Like I said before, if Russia managed to have their ship hit by Ukrainian missile then Russia didn’t deserve to have that ship in the first place

    Now with it sinking to the bottom we won't know if it was hit by a missile or a mine so Ukrainians get to decide what happened and they say it was the missile


    RuMOD idea of having a 12k ton cruiser that went 40 years without significant upgrade in the Black Sea "puddle" was also quite a move. Maybe a lesson will be learned but probably not.

    Literally the only branch of the Russian Armed Forces that have a single shred of dignity is the airforce but I am sure they will just throw a Tu-160 into Kiev for lols as well. Time will tell.

    It almost seems Russia wants to lose this war, amusing to see kvs coping hard. If Ukrainians counterattacked and took a Russian city somehow, he would say it was a tactical exchange lmao.

    A cruiser meant to take on carrier groups, either taken out by accident or by two Kh-35 rip offs and a Turkish model plane. Navy shouldn't be allowed to build anything bigger than 8k tons at this point.

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    Post  kvs Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:32 pm

    Estimates put the number of Kiev regime troops in the LDNR at 100,000. There have been large numbers transferred
    there in the last two weeks. This is going to be the main battle of the war.

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    Post  limb Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:33 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    limb wrote:
    zorobabel wrote:
    limb wrote:This a huge embarrassment. How does a localized ammo detonation cause a ship to sink? Also the black sea has quite small waves, never exceeding 4m . Its storms are minor compared to oceanic storms.
    More likely to be a mine or missile strike than an ammo detonation. Yes, there was a fire, but the cause of the fire was never indicated.

    A missile strike is more embarrassing since the Neptune is subsonic.

    Just cos its subsonic does not make it useless. Its still a formidable missile.

    It's not. It's an obsolete 80s tech missile inferior to the harpoon.

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    Post  zorobabel Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:33 pm

    kvs wrote:Why is this supposed to be some sort of major embarrassment?   Even if it was an accident and not a mine, missile or sabotage it would
    still be a non-trivial risk.   Are all the jet crashes also major "embarrassments".   People should stop living in pulp fiction reality.  

    The most important thing is that most of the sailors were saved.   If their rescue was f*cked up, then that would be unforgivable.

    I wouldn't call it an embarrassment, rather a major loss. The flag ship of the Black Sea fleet. 10 year retrofit completed 22 years ago. 64 S-300Fs on board, 40 OSA-MAs, 16 Vulkan missiles, torpedoes, and other equipment. And though old, the ship itself is obviously irreplaceable.
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    Post  par far Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:34 pm

    mr_hd wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:


    So I don't want to hear anything more about ''Ukrainian fighting skills'' or any similar bullshit, nothing changed since 50 days ago other that Russians deciding to softball this entire project




    (And before anyone goes off about ''NATO training'' please spare me, over here we went hard and heavy on that magical NATO training with only result being that unit quality deteriorated and we spent past decade trying to fix that crap, only new thing NATO training gives you is ability to use cool stickers on your shit)


    I think you are wrong. First Russian army is capable but it is defense army that was never designed to do real power projection on such scale that is front line in Ukraine. Second millions of Russians do have relatives in Ukraine which does not make big motivation for Russian soldiers.

    Regarding Ukranian training, Ukraine went way more into acquiring practical knowledge and experiences aside of NATO programs. For example they went to Croatia years ago and asked war veterans to give lectures to their forces and pass knowledge. They have very cleaver and creative command...and are super motivated, their survival as nation is at stake and those are people that have Cossacks as ancestors...that survived Hitler and Stalin...all those factors are real...


    This is a big thing, as much as I want the Russian Army to pund the Ukrainian army into ground, ot may not happen because of that.

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