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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #5

    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:19 pm

    Regular wrote:There are so much talk about Russians staging Chemical/Biological attack on Mariupol or Kiev to move their stalled offensive. (Not my words)

    Some US politicians are claiming that it will be NATO's red line and they will get involved.

    How likely for is for this to happen? Is it possible for it to stay as conventional conflict or it will escalate even further?

    Well we might supply better weapons but we won't get involved in direct fighting
    Regular
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    Post  Regular Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:24 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Well we might supply better weapons but we won't get involved in direct fighting

    There are literally calls from top US politicians to get directly involved. The image of Russian military in many NATO officials is that of a rag tag, poorly maintained and unprofessional army, probably a very similar view that Wermacht had before after Winter War with Finland.

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:26 pm

    Regular wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Well we might supply better weapons but we won't get involved in direct fighting

    There are literally calls from top US politicians to get directly involved. The image of Russian military in many NATO officials is that of a rag tag, poorly maintained, and unprofessional army, probably a very similar view that Wermacht had before after Winter War with Finland.

    And? there were calls from Russian suits to bring back the USSR.

    The point is they like to talk.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:27 pm

    Biden litteraly said they won't send troops even in case of unconvenitional attacks.

    Add to that if russians use their nuks against Kiev they won't hesitate to turn europeans cities into hell.

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    diabetus


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    Post  diabetus Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:31 pm

    Anyone think this conflict has shown that legacy Soviet tanks need to be retired and replaced as soon as possible?
    Cheetah
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    Post  Cheetah Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:33 pm

    diabetus wrote:Anyone think this conflict has shown that legacy Soviet tanks need to be retired and replaced as soon as possible?

    Not necessarily. We are merely reaching the point where conventional armour, and ERA are no longer enough, and an APS is required. The up-side to that is, APS systems can be added to existing hardware with little overhead. However, if you're referring to Soviet tanks, as they were during Soviet times? Absolutely.

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    zorobabel
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    Post  zorobabel Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:37 pm

    Impressed by gains in the south.

    The one thing I do not understand is why Russia did not bring more of its forex reserves (not just gold) back to Russia to prevent them from being frozen. $300-400bn lost is nothing to sneeze at, and I wouldn't be surprised if the West started giving it to Ukraine.

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    diabetus


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    Post  diabetus Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:38 pm

    Cheetah wrote:
    diabetus wrote:Anyone think this conflict has shown that legacy Soviet tanks need to be retired and replaced as soon as possible?

    Not necessarily. We are merely reaching the point where conventional armour, and ERA are no longer enough, and an APS is required. The up-side to that is, APS systems can be added to existing hardware with little overhead. However, if you're referring to Soviet tanks, as they were during Soviet times? Absolutely.

    I'm including post Soviet variants of the t-72 and T-80 here, even the t-90A.

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    Regular
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    Post  Regular Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:40 pm

    Isos wrote:Biden litteraly said they won't send troops even in case of unconvenitional attacks.

    Add to that if russians use their nuks against Kiev they won't hesitate to turn europeans cities into hell.

    Biden says whatever his Icecream man tells him to say. Wouldn't trust a word from this man. I wouldn't be surprised if this will escalate, US politicians and their people want blood and they think that bombing campaign will fix all of this. pale

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:41 pm

    zorobabel wrote:Impressed by gains in the south.

    The one thing I do not understand is why Russia did not bring more of its forex reserves (not just gold) back to Russia to prevent them from being frozen. $300-400bn lost is nothing to sneeze at, and I wouldn't be surprised if the West started giving it to Ukraine.

    Its not lost. The gold is within Russia. The reserves are Euro's and are locked. Yeah, they shouldn't have had Euro's but blame the CBR for that one.

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    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:41 pm

    Updates

    1) UN Security Council Gathers in New York at Russia's Request to Discuss US Biolabs in Ukraine

    2) EU Plans to Get Rid of Russia as Energy Supplier Amid Crisis in Ukraine

    3) Lukashenko Says Ukraine Planned to Attack Belarus

    4) Made in India Boeing, Airbus Parts Can Be Exported to Russia Averting Sanctions: Aviation Expert

    5) No Plans for Offensive on Donbass? Docs Show 48% Boost in Kiev's Defence Industry Output in 2022

    6) Nationalists Blew Up Institute Building in Kharkov to Hide Nuclear Research, Russian MoD Says

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    Cheetah
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    Post  Cheetah Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:45 pm

    diabetus wrote:I'm including post Soviet variants of the t-72 and T-80 here, even the t-90A.

    Arguably, some of the modern ERA is quite impressive. But, just to be clear, we are currently in an era where anti-tank related technology is at a high, while armour is lagging behind somewhat. Make no mistake, against most late/post-Soviet era ATGMs, or systems like Javelin, all tanks, including the best the west has to offer, would fail to resist from most angles (Those with APS systems being the exception).

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    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:46 pm

    diabetus wrote:
    Cheetah wrote:
    diabetus wrote:Anyone think this conflict has shown that legacy Soviet tanks need to be retired and replaced as soon as possible?

    Not necessarily. We are merely reaching the point where conventional armour, and ERA are no longer enough, and an APS is required. The up-side to that is, APS systems can be added to existing hardware with little overhead. However, if you're referring to Soviet tanks, as they were during Soviet times? Absolutely.

    I'm including post Soviet variants of the t-72 and T-80 here, even the t-90A.

    You initially said Soviet variants now Ur including all tanks. Word of advice stop being a C*nt and leave this forum u troll

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    Post  diabetus Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:51 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    diabetus wrote:
    Cheetah wrote:
    diabetus wrote:Anyone think this conflict has shown that legacy Soviet tanks need to be retired and replaced as soon as possible?

    Not necessarily. We are merely reaching the point where conventional armour, and ERA are no longer enough, and an APS is required. The up-side to that is, APS systems can be added to existing hardware with little overhead. However, if you're referring to Soviet tanks, as they were during Soviet times? Absolutely.

    I'm including post Soviet variants of the t-72 and T-80 here, even the t-90A.

    You initially said Soviet variants now Ur including all tanks. Word of advice stop being a C*nt and leave this forum u troll

    The t-90 was a Soviet development. Not sure why you're getting so emotional. Notably i did not include the t-90AM, the possible T-80UM (BVM like update to 80U tanks) and obviously the t-14.
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:59 pm

    Add to that if russians use their nuks against Kiev they won't hesitate to turn europeans cities into hell.

    Why you keep talking about nukes? Even the smallest tactical nuclear bomb would be the catalyst of unimaginable catastrophic destruction. Get real.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:01 pm

    zorobabel wrote:Impressed by gains in the south.

    The one thing I do not understand is why Russia did not bring more of its forex reserves (not just gold) back to Russia to prevent them from being frozen. $300-400bn lost is nothing to sneeze at, and I wouldn't be surprised if the West started giving it to Ukraine.
    The CBR holdings were frozen, but it does not matter, everyone is aware that Niabullina was bailing out the associates of Yegor Gaidar, Alexei Kudrin and the rest of the corrupt fucks like sergei pugachev, boris mints,  and Vadim Belayev.

    The CBR scheme is quite simple, they hold foreign reserves which are wired through SWIFT to oligarchs in Europe, Cyprus, and the Carribbean. Corrupt fuckers then buy up villas, properties and what not and declare it all as a lost. 

    Niabullina then prints money to cover their losses and calculates a provision as write off to "bad debt expense" 

    This is how the bankers asset strip Russia. Between Oligarchs the CBR is covering the theft of 1 trillion dollars from the country, the so called "capital flight"

    So this money was the oligarchs channel to pay for debts, securities, loans, real estate, transfer of shares, and issuance of bonds. 

    The CBR aided and abetted this process by holding currency of hostile states for this, helping German Gref facilitate these schemes. Sberbank covered the CBR by saying these were legitimate wire transfers to real businesses, but it was for Abramovich and Co. Yachts, houses and other decadence

    So the money which was frozen was being looted anyway, it's just liberal reformers had a big hold over the internal processes in Russia

    After all, it was they that created the economic system,  Putin did not keep characters like Kudrin and Niabullina because he liked them, it was because they ran the old now destroyed economy

    Putin carried out controlled demolition of the old system 

    Liberal reformers are panicking, and the Russian economy will be given over to Glazyev and Soviet economic theorists to implement a fiat system with lower interest rates to lower inflation

    But coupled to Gold and resources to properly revalue the currency

    And ran in a sensible way, the Russian economy is suffering from demonetization , the 10% debt to GDP is nice but get real, any economy can print more than this

    What is the point of a 10% debt to GDP ratio when your running interest rates at 20%? 

    Niabullina is starving the economy of internal credits making it dependent on external credits , dollars and euros

    Russia needs fiat currency urgently , and increase monetization at sensible debt ratio

    Once the economy is monetized by printing, inflation subsides with lower interest rates, and revaluation of the Ruble like the Chinese did with Yuan

    Then jokers here will be happy about our huge nominal GDP


    Last edited by Arkanghelsk on Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:07 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    Post  nomadski Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:04 pm

    I was thinking , as I usually do , that reactive armour plates , could be installed on the outside of the cage armour as well . Used on all vehicles and bunker . Also I want to say , that different military equipment can sometimes perform similar tasks . The important point is , however , that all enemy objects are covered at all possible distances , with adequate volume of fire and at lowest cost . I know you can not reply , but think it there is any gaps ? Any objects in the air or on the ground , that can not be reached ? Say a fox hole , with ATGM at 1 or 2 kilometres ? Or drone or mini- drone in the air ? If should not be too difficult to increase fire density at those ranges . Fragmentation rounds will work well against both .


    @ Ark

    Iranians have similar problems , with their funds frozen in foreign Banks . I never understood why , the funds can not be kept in domestic Banks ? Or in case of selling , money received first , then goods given ? And if buying , goods received first then money given ?



    Last edited by nomadski on Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:35 pm; edited 2 times in total
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:21 pm

    Here in Europe we already reached the point how we can give russia a way out of this without losing face too much. Russias military is basicly beaten in Ukraine. Its rescources on the ground overstretched and unable to supply, large numbers of conscripts run away or surrender and on the homefront russias economy is destroyed.

    An option would be EU membership for Ukraine but no NATO membership, similar to Austria.

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:23 pm

    Aristide wrote:Here in Europe we already reached the point how we can give russia a way out of this without losing face too much. Russias military is basicly beaten in Ukraine. Its rescources on the ground overstretched and unable to supply, large numbers of conscripts run away or surrender and on the homefront russias economy is destroyed.

    An option would be EU membership for Ukraine but no NATO membership, similar to Austria.

    Sorry, say what?

    Are we looking at the same war?

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    Post  Mir Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:28 pm

    Aristide wrote:Here in Europe we already reached the point how we can give russia a way out of this without losing face too much. Russias military is basicly beaten in Ukraine. Its rescources on the ground overstretched and unable to supply, large numbers of conscripts run away or surrender and on the homefront russias economy is destroyed.

    An option would be EU membership for Ukraine but no NATO membership, similar to Austria.

    Zelensky just warned the Russians that they may soon need humanitarian corridors themselves. Yes Russia is already digging trenches around Moscow. What a Face

    PS - Did you get your gas bill this month?

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    Post  Mir Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:29 pm

    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:
    Sorry, say what?

    Are we looking at the same war?


    Because CCN says so it must be true! Laughing

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    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:30 pm

    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:
    Aristide wrote:Here in Europe we already reached the point how we can give russia a way out of this without losing face too much. Russias military is basicly beaten in Ukraine. Its rescources on the ground overstretched and unable to supply, large numbers of conscripts run away or surrender and on the homefront russias economy is destroyed.

    An option would be EU membership for Ukraine but no NATO membership, similar to Austria.

    Sorry, say what?

    Are we looking at the same war?


    Yes we do.

    Its two weeks now and Russia lost hundreds of tanks, dozens of helicopters, aircrafts and several thousand soldiers. So far not a single big city was taken and even in the smaller ones that the russians did occupy the civilians opposse them completly.

    Add the fact that in Ukraine now even evry grandma has 10 Stinger rockets in her barn and you see this cant be won.

    Even russian hardliners in russian state TV start to change mood against Putin

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/11/russian-state-tv-show-goes-off-message-criticizes-war-on-ukraine-a76875
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:35 pm

    Ukraine is already a defeated state, territorial losses encompass 50% of the country

    Mariupol is undergoing denazification

    Kherson is liberated

    Kharkov is 50% denazified

    Kiev has lost Brovary, Makarov, Irpen, and soon southern approach Boryspil

    We are knocking on the door of Kruvy Rog

    And now begin kalibration of galicia, Lutsk, Ivanofrankovsk

    We dont want to deal with europe anymore, go destroy what is left of the EU

    We are already commencing USSR 2, and we are eternally grateful to Josep Borell and the EU parliament for the gift

    We are nationalizing all your airplanes and buying parts from Turkey and India

    We will russify Renault too

    Merci beaucoup connard

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    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:36 pm

    Mir wrote:
    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:
    Sorry, say what?

    Are we looking at the same war?


    Because CCN says so it must be true! Laughing

    I dont need CNN. I have a friend in Ukraine who collects fossils and meteorites. He shows me whats going on.

    Give the good mood we have in the EU to win this and the rather depressive state in Russia regarding this, i say we are on a good mood.

    The thing is, this is first war where evry detail is shared the moment it happens. Thats the main reason russia lost the information war right at the start. We can see russian helicopters shot down, burning russian convoys and destroyed tanks.



    That does not look like winning

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    Post  Vann7 Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:38 pm

    Regular wrote:Syrians (there are still war to be won in their country?) fighting in Ukraine.

    They will definitely be much of help as they all know the environment so much and are very professional. I bet Russian military leadership can't wait to have such soldiers side by side Rolling Eyes

    FFS, Syrians need to finish securing their whole country and not to fight in Ukraine where they will be grinded to a pulp by artillery. Does Russia need any more soldiers or it's just trolling?


    probably egyptians or iranians to get experience or argelians. for sure syrian army can't afford to
    send soldiers anywhere ,they still facing war.

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