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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #5

    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Mar 07, 2022 1:58 pm

    Isos, why do you think troops are abandoning equipment?

    Why are they advancing so far in the first place ?

    Also is the drone issue a question of not having stocks? Or leadership is not utilizing such tools?

    The 3 main tactical errors I see are not coordinated advances (troops moving so deep that they outrun the main force), lack of drones(at least to hunt AD), and badly planned CAS missions (something like wild weasel)

    If those 3 things can be coordinated, then losses in tactical situation will be reduced


    Russia and Ukraine are meeting, so expect UKR info attack, tomorrow after negotiations fail, Russia will strike again with Kalibr and Iskander

    I think they should focus on tactical improvements as their operational maneuvers are good


    Last edited by Arkanghelsk on Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:02 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:Isos, why do you think troops are abandoning equipment?

    Why are they advancing so far in the first place ?

    Also is the drone issue a question of not having stocks? Or leadership is not utilizing such tools?

    The 3 main tactical errors I see are not coordinated advances (troops moving so deep that they outrun the main force), lack of drones, and badly planned CAS missions

    If those 3 things can be coordinated, then losses in tactical situation will be reduced

    I'll repeat to you what I have already said, to you, a dozen times.

    He isn't Russian military. None of us are.

    We do not know what is actually happening. We know of losses because of what is shown. We know end results, because it's shown. But what we do not know is what is entirely used, and how often.  Russia has been rather tight lipped.  Example is timeline BS which was disproven by Lavrov himself.

    People said Orion isn't used. Then we find out it is. That ways to uncover Ukrainian AD isn't used. Then we find out they used decoys.  Etc etc etc.

    No one here has the exact knowledge.

    We see a Su-34 destroyed. OK, we assume they are flying low due to some videos. Maybe not all of them are flying low. We see that other jets like Su-30 and 35 carry better weapons. Are all su34 carrying same? Don't know. If you do know, then you are lying. Everyone is.

    These are examples. Hence why more smart and better informed members here are keeping mum and waiting for official results and info.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:04 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    Arkanghelsk wrote:Isos, why do you think troops are abandoning equipment?

    Why are they advancing so far in the first place ?

    Also is the drone issue a question of not having stocks? Or leadership is not utilizing such tools?

    The 3 main tactical errors I see are not coordinated advances (troops moving so deep that they outrun the main force), lack of drones, and badly planned CAS missions

    If those 3 things can be coordinated, then losses in tactical situation will be reduced

    I'll repeat to you what I have already said, to you, a dozen times.

    He isn't Russian military. None of us are.

    We do not know what is actually happening. We know of losses because of what is shown. We know end results, because it's shown. But what we do not know is what is entirely used, and how often.  Russia has been rather tight lipped.  Example is timeline BS which was disproven by Lavrov himself.

    People said Orion isn't used. Then we find out it is. That ways to uncover Ukrainian AD isn't used. Then we find out they used decoys.  Etc etc etc.

    No one here has the exact knowledge.

    Yes, it's true,  we dont have complete picture

    Nonetheless is good to discuss how to overcome tactical issues,  and minimize whatever losses do occur

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    Lurk83


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    Post  Lurk83 Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:12 pm

    Something has been hit in the Black Sea. Ukrainians claiming it was a grad strike on vasiliy bykov
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:14 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    Arkanghelsk wrote:Isos, why do you think troops are abandoning equipment?

    Why are they advancing so far in the first place ?

    Also is the drone issue a question of not having stocks? Or leadership is not utilizing such tools?

    The 3 main tactical errors I see are not coordinated advances (troops moving so deep that they outrun the main force), lack of drones, and badly planned CAS missions

    If those 3 things can be coordinated, then losses in tactical situation will be reduced

    I'll repeat to you what I have already said, to you, a dozen times.

    He isn't Russian military. None of us are.

    We do not know what is actually happening. We know of losses because of what is shown. We know end results, because it's shown. But what we do not know is what is entirely used, and how often.  Russia has been rather tight lipped.  Example is timeline BS which was disproven by Lavrov himself.

    People said Orion isn't used. Then we find out it is. That ways to uncover Ukrainian AD isn't used. Then we find out they used decoys.  Etc etc etc.

    No one here has the exact knowledge.

    Yes, it's true,  we dont have complete picture

    Nonetheless is good to discuss how to overcome tactical issues,  and minimize whatever losses do occur

    It is. But at same time it's hard to get info.

    For instance, I would say use more guided munitions and drop from much higher altitude. By time Buk system tries to reach Su-34, the Khabiny gets time to work. But when it flies high, it is susceptible to such long range high altitude weapons.

    If They fly lownwith dumb bombs, they can destroy hardened targets and mass targets rather better than guided munitions, but you risk getting shot down via manpads and AA which are very effective.

    So it's damned if you do and damned if you don't.

    I would wager it's based upon the conflict. In this regard, Ukraine is indeed the most hardened country in AD and guided weapons in all of Europe. Add in armored as well. So something like this should be much more guided weapons than not. But once again, guided weapons work great but destruction potential is limited and works great to when you know where target is and it hasn't moved.

    So the concept of using mini drones and decoys to trap AD are great and they can keep it up. But there is always a chance of a miss and that the planes flying in area may think it's safe when it isn't.

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    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:17 pm

    Hole wrote: including stuff to better protect convoys/rear services like the Tornado family of armored truck, Gibka-S
    Pantsir is accompanying Russian convoys. Gibka-S will play more or less the same role.

    What purpose will Tornado trucks serve? Instead the current set of Russian T-72, BMPs, BMDs BTRs need to be protected with Slat Armour and APS
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    Post  Vann7 Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:27 pm

    This is why i love images , they can explain things better than a thousands of words..

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #5 - Page 4 FNLtNQ2VQAAqDQM

    albeit this is only just one of the many other criminal things happening in the western world order ,
    is a good example of how ridiculous and brainwashed Ukrainians and europeans and most of the
    world is. Most world population don't see a real  danger for their lives and future happening right
    their face and not aware of it.


    Anyone with artistic skills can do it even better.

    The title should be..

    Democracy and Freedom the West way    Smile

    -put another guy who refused the vaccines in a concentration camp (as happenig in australia).  pirat

    -Show canadian truckers losing their homes ,bank accouonts and trucks for protesting against manadatory vaccines.   wtf Shocked

    -permanent lockdowns.. don't go outside , stay safe in home , too many viruses outside. Rolling Eyes

    -show a family ,5 Eyes country and europe sign , demanding the forced change of gender of children.

    - Show NATO arming alqaeda and isis , fighting terrorism ,by making them feel bored of so many killing.

    -  freedom to steal sign up to $950 , you can steal anything from any small business if you feel
    you need it.  Looting stores is ok with us.   Smile

    -Show the "world safe" with a NATO military base in every country of the world.
    and with the warning.. is not what you think .

    -another art with civilians going to shop with an electronic circuit in their heads telling their bank
    account , the places they visit that day ,the things he told that day.

    -another sign sayign ,, XX days until Absolute control protection of world population.

    -XX  days until world population reduced by 90% with bill gates ,soros and rockefellers smile.


    The anglo western order is trying to turn the planet  into a giant Concentration Camp and people
    are worried by Russia fighting back at a failed puppet state under NATO control that are using Ukraine to damage Russia security ,economic interest and cause civil unrest.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:59 pm; edited 6 times in total

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:38 pm

    So the Russian jet shot down over Kharkov yesterday was bombing the tank factory. It did a lot of damage but why the f*ck
    is Russia not using missiles?

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:45 pm

    kvs wrote:So the Russian jet shot down over Kharkov yesterday was bombing the tank factory.   It did a lot of damage but why the f*ck
    is Russia not using missiles?

    Optical guidance by buk and Tor is formidable, without MAWS you wont know it's coming

    High altitude flight I doubt is restricted because Ukraine dont have long range AD anymore , it's also easy to evade

    VKS avoiding high altitude gefest bombing is due to civilian risks I believe 

    VKS understands that civilians may be close to the conflict zone, so they fly low and try to hit precisely even with unguided bombs

    I think a tactical improvement would help rather than technology

    Sort of like if a su34 will be low, cover him higher up with su30 or additional su34

    Fly CAP over the CAS missions,  if pilot goes down cover him by striking the lone buk, and then cover the buddy on ground until evac

    With optical guidance, I think the missiles are sti cued by RF command guidance, like a ATGM is, but those command guidance is quiet, not enough emissions to detect


    Last edited by Arkanghelsk on Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Regular Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:49 pm

    I thought Kharkov tank factory was in flames, or was it tractor factory? Hit by cruise missiles during early days
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    Post  Regular Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:53 pm

    Azov nazis are posting destroyed russian equipment and tanks. By the looks of it they are fully stocked with Javelins and NLAWs. They will be hard nut to crack, knowing how close to civilians and infrastructure they are
    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:54 pm

    Also it's harder to use Platan at low altitude for kh25/kh38 guidance

    Youd have to fly higher up to scan with cameras

    So if they are not going to fly high,  that's why they're using bombs

    Example, at 5000ft , what is platan able to see? It's like using a telescope at the ground
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:56 pm

    Regular wrote:Azov nazis are posting destroyed russian equipment and tanks. By the looks of it they are fully stocked with Javelins and NLAWs. They will be hard nut to crack, knowing how close to civilians and infrastructure they are
    I saw an ambush yesterday, but peculiar, Ukros filmed themselves shooting rpg at tanks, but no return fire, 

    It seems lot of this is abandoned equipment , and Ukros filming propaganda 

    So the equipment really is lost due to abandonment most times

    https://t.me/conflictzone/20252

    This video is propaganda, they "creep" on tanks and fire, and then film the after effect, no return fire or crew  seen

    Most likely vehicles were abandoned

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    Yugo90


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    Post  Yugo90 Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:01 pm

    Lurk83 wrote:Something has been hit in the Black Sea.  Ukrainians claiming it was a grad strike on vasiliy bykov
    I hope noot. Its a new ship. Any news maybe ?
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:06 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #5 - Page 4 Img_2011

    Ukraine Mig29, downed , pilot seen next to wreck parachuting

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:07 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    Optical guidance by buk and Tor is formidable, without MAWS you wont know it's coming

    Don't think Buk has any optical guidance whilst Tor has?

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    Post  Mir Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:08 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    Ukraine Mig29, downed , pilot seen next to wreck parachuting

    That was from the first day's action. First it was claimed as Russian but it turned out to be Ukraine.

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    Post  Regular Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:09 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:

    Ukraine Mig29, downed , pilot seen next to wreck parachuting

    Old picture. Reverse search it. Can't confirm about Mig-29 shot down, but most likely bs with rehashed picture. There shouldn't be any Migs left
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:09 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    Regular wrote:Azov nazis are posting destroyed russian equipment and tanks. By the looks of it they are fully stocked with Javelins and NLAWs. They will be hard nut to crack, knowing how close to civilians and infrastructure they are
    I saw an ambush yesterday, but peculiar, Ukros filmed themselves shooting rpg at tanks, but no return fire, 

    It seems lot of this is abandoned equipment , and Ukros filming propaganda 

    So the equipment really is lost due to abandonment most times

    https://t.me/conflictzone/20252

    This video is propaganda, they "creep" on tanks and fire, and then film the after effect, no return fire or crew  seen

    Most likely vehicles were abandoned

    That conflictzone looks like Ukrainian propaganda.  Lots of thumbs up and likes for dead LDNR forces and fakes.

    So I wouldn't take it at face value.

    Edit: got to be. Mostly posting Ukrainian stuff.

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    Post  Mir Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:10 pm

    Yugo90 wrote:
    I hope noot. Its a new ship. Any news maybe ?

    Likely to be fake news or just trolling.

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    Post  Regular Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:10 pm

    Yugo90 wrote:
    Lurk83 wrote:Something has been hit in the Black Sea.  Ukrainians claiming it was a grad strike on vasiliy bykov
    I hope noot. Its a new ship. Any news maybe ?

    Grad strike on the ship? Let me wait for confirmation, sounds like bullshit.
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:12 pm

    Regular wrote:Azov nazis are posting destroyed russian equipment and tanks. By the looks of it they are fully stocked with Javelins and NLAWs. They will be hard nut to crack, knowing how close to civilians and infrastructure they are

    In Mariupol?

    It's more likely to be DNR forces than Russian per say.
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    Post  d_taddei2 Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:13 pm

    Said it before, Russia using older armour without APS the simple solution is caged armour cheap and effective against RPG'S etc. That's all that needs to be done. On today's footage have seeing more more Tanks and BMP-2 use by Russia although didn't see any artillery or AD systems.


    Last edited by d_taddei2 on Mon Mar 07, 2022 4:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Vann7 Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:23 pm

    ATLASCUB wrote:The U.S wasn't anywhere near ready for that type of aggressiveness in 2014, it takes a lot of time to coordinate all of this, get allied buy in etc.... the regime wasn't as infested with rats and foreign assets, much less had a foothold in every decision making body in Ukraine,  the cancer wasn't anything less than a small tiny lump that required cauterization right then and there against their feeble attempts to gain power and legitimacy. Russia had an immense amount of assets and cards to work with then, which obviously, throughout the years dwindled as the new regime made inroads and settled by taking them out. The coup was simply the first step in a much larger plan. You stop the game at the first step and you save yourself considerable trouble both in magnitude and recurrence. Instead of meeting a strong hand, it met a weak hand. The rest is history.

    It did not happen and so you have this.

    Stop talking BS. Nobody cares about attempts to bend narratives to form some type of cohesion in your own head about the flow of events. That goes for all the dimwits here who know damn well their stupidity, and by now figured out their IQ level - to their own shock. lol1


    yeah.. lets invade ukraine in 2014 when vast majority of ukrainians were really convinced the west
    was the solution to all their problems ,that there will be prosperity and refrigerators always full and they rich.  Rolling Eyes

    To capture nations , is not only the military that you need to defeat ,you also need to capture people hearts too.. otherwise you will have endless civil unrest mass protest.. it will be impossible for russia
    to control ukraine if all population demand them to leave. this also promote mas scale protest in russia too   remember that the soviet union was more powerful than russia today and was dismembered by mass scale civilians protest.

    The only way you can hold control of a country that people hate you ,is with brutal repression ,the sadam hussein way , shooting those that protest inflicting terror on all civilians to go against the state , repression like that will make most scientist of russia to leave that dictatorship . so basically it will be to repetition of the same mistakes that soviet union did.  No

    The west defeated soviet union without firing a single bullet , never forget that . Don't understimate civilians capability to overthrow a repressive state , Russia empire was defeated by its own civil unrest.. soviet union too..  so the last thing russia should do is start a repressive totalitarian police state , because will be unable to control it without using the military to kill many thousands of civilians if not millions. This could trigger a third cheche war.. Laughing

    if you combine civil unrest for the invasion of all ukraine in 2014 ,with european full scale sanctions ,
    when oil prices were very low , just $20 dollars barrel.. it will have wiped out the russian economy.
    and china neither was that strong in 2014 to help russia.  Like i said , defeating the ukrainian army is not the problem.. just a dozens of planes loses and a few thousands of deaths in the army.. what will be really painful is to control and very angry population..  that is truly brainwashed and think joining europe will solve all their life problems.  Today in 2022 russia is better prepared , not only to fight ukrraine ,but also NATO and also the image of europe is not as good today as it was in 2014. Now even top leaders of the nazis in ukrainian  know the west don't care about ukraine , that the money they receive is not because they love ukrainians,, but because ukrainians are useful to fight russia.
    all this mandatory vaccinations with poison and repression that now europeans face , this will be know by millions of ukrainians when move as refugees to europe and will wish they were in ukraine again, when they see the repression that now europe face. is my opinion ,russia have better chance now to influence ukranians than in 2014 , had the russian army had to invade all of ukraine. Because the image of the western world since the pandemic started have gone downhill and europeans that can afford it leaving it .


    Last edited by Vann7 on Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  d_taddei2 Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:28 pm

    Updates

    1)German Chancellor Scholz says EU energy needs can't be secured without Russian imports, no plans to suspend them

    2) 15:40 (Minsk time) Two Mi-8 and Mi-26 helicopters took off from Machulishchy, flying southeast

    3) Advisor to office of President of Ukraine: Negotiations with the Russian Federation. Third round. Beginning at 16.00 Kyiv time. Delegation unchanged

    4) aerial bombardments this afternoon in Kharkiv, Mykolaiv, Odesa, Bila Tserkva, Vasylkiv, Uzyn, Lubny, Myrhorod, Pyryatyn, Zhytomy, Dnipro.

    4) US Funding for Biological Labs in Ukraine Exceeded $200mln - Russian Defense Ministry. 30 Biolabs Whose Activities Were Commissioned by Pentagon Were Formed in Ukraine. African Swine Fever Strain Was Created in Georgia in 2007 With Pentagon's Help.

    5) Historic Maximum: European Gas Futures Top $3,600 Per 1,000 Cubic Meters

    6) ICRC Says Evacuation Route in Ukraine's Mariupol Was Mined
    A road designated as a humanitarian corridor out of Ukraine's Mariupol turned out to be mined, the director of operations at the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said on Monday.

    7) Kremlin Spokesman Says Russia Will Finish Demilitarization of Ukraine.

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