Ukraine situation after DPR, LPR recognition by Russia

Holy shite GarryB...  I think you've broken some kind of record with that post!  

Well said however.

So basically Russia move was ....
A temporary recognition of the independence of Donbass ,until kiev regime completely implement
the minsk2 agreements they agree to make.  If kiev regime refuse to integrate donbass into their
politics with same rights as any other and don't recognize their security autonomy , then their independence will continue.  but now the difference is the Russia military will be providing full direct
support to  donbass forces, likely pantsirs and tors and even russia artillery ,Russian attack drones and even s-300s / s-400 w and russian cruise missiles will be hitting kiev forces ,whenever they strike at
donbass.

It was a clever move ,the less bad thing they could do , because not only this justify russia military to move heavy equipment in ukraine and many modernized t-90 and t-75 tanks if they need , but also keep the door open for kiev to negotiate for and recover the donbass through political means. That way neither NATO ,neither kiev or western media ,can claim ,that Russia annexed donbass too.. the russian army will be there for security of donbass residents and will be ready to return to russia in the year 2050 ,when ukraine finally agree to implement the minsk 2 accords.

in real practice kiev regime will never recognize minsk2 accords and will not negotiate ,
because allowing factions pro Russia federation ,to participate in elections , be part of their pairliament and have a vote , and organize to get a pro russian government in power ,will be suicide
for NATO influence over kiev who run the show in kiev. and defacto create conditions for a reverse the coup of 2014 if ukies decide to get rid of their western puppets.

unfortunately this is far from over yet , the west have plenty of options to spit on russia.
like either using chemical weapons or bio weapons on donbass , or restart the war of transnistria vs moldova where many thousands russian soldiers deployed there, are trapped and russia have no way to help them without invading deep in ukraine or nato airspace..

in other news..
some ukies seems that forgot to check their gps locators, when tried to sneak on donbass.
and had to pay a big price .  perhaps it was russian army that jammed their gps and they did not knew were in russia territory.  

Russia releases video of 'destroyed Ukrainian vehicles'

https://www.rt.com/russia/550157-fsb-video-ukrainian-vehicles/

Big_Gazza wrote:

flamming_python wrote:Still no reason to make its misery worse

I view this as a betrayal of us, and the Ukrainians as well, if this war goes ahead

There won't be a war, unless the Ukronazis go full retard, in which case Russia will annihilate the Ukrop forces deployed to Donbass, then sweep the fleeing remnants from Occupied Novorossiya before depositing the body bags in neat rows on the border for an orderly pickup.

Kiev had its chance for over 7 years to avoid this.  All they needed to do was implement Minsk 2 and their sovereignty over Donbass (and its eventual return) would have been assured.  Instead they permitted the Ukronazi factions to indulge in ethnically-motivated widespread murder and destruction, and played a delaying game while they sought Western cash and weapons to rebuild their military so that they could take the oblasts by force. F#ck Kiev and the corrupt bastards who run it.  The murder and mayhem stops now. Proceed further at your own risk, and keep in mind what happened to Saakashvilli

BTW since you're Russian, I would have expected you would have a better grasp of what is at stake here...

I'm not going to carry water for Putin. **** that guy.

That whole little war between the rebels and Ukrainians over the past few day was a phony one. And now this shit, with the republics of undefined borders. Genius plan by the Kremlin. Genius.

flamming_python wrote:

I'm not going to carry water for Putin. **** that guy.

That whole little war between the rebels and Ukrainians over the past few day was a phony one. And now this shit, with the republics of undefined borders. Genius plan by the Kremlin. Genius.

This "independence" recognition by Russia , was done , for public relations , to justify the entry of the
russian army in defense of donbass when they attacked by kiev. They did the same in south ossetia and it did stopped georgia attacks on them.. when russian army moved inside that zone. so was a purely humanitarian move..   that puts the ball on the side of kiev , because Russia continue supporting the minsk2 agreement , so that kiev  don't have an excuse to take those zones by force ,
because minsk2 allows the taking it back without firing a bullet.. it only need kiev to democratize their laws and an allow pro russia factions to run for ukraine elections .  

So this makes any argument invalid by the west that russia stole donbass , russia still support minsk2. even if kiev never implements it , is useful , because makes it difficult for kiev to claim ,
that russia stole it. And counters their propaganda to the world that they need to take those zones by force. is a political move , what russia did , in combination with a military one , since now the russian military will be authorized to fight side by side with donbass forces.
So effectively donbass in a matter of weeks or few months will become the new  Hmeimim air base , a fortified base , that will shield donbass from ukies attacks , and nothing will enter in their airspace either. security should be increased significantly for those donbass residents ,once russia move all their equipment to fortify it. They should have done years ago , but putin is incredible slow in doing the right thing.

Biggest question now is the borders. The recognition doesn't describe them and it seems like the republics are talking about the original borders of the regions. Will we actively push the Ukr troops back though?
Imho now is definitely the time to do it, it seems like Kiev and Washington have no idea what to do right now. Good to seize the initiative.

Maximmmm wrote:Biggest question now is the borders. The recognition doesn't describe them and it seems like the republics are talking about the original borders of the regions. Will we actively push the Ukr troops back though?
Imho now is definitely the time to do it, it seems like Kiev and Washington have no idea what to do right now. Good to seize the initiative.

This is going to happen if the Ukraine refuses Moscow's overtures towards returning to the Minsk agreemenets. Which it is in all rights to do, Russia has changed the terms by invading. This whole sophistry of Russia insisting that it still applies is not going to cut it.

And I am against any war spreading to there where people haven't had it. Even if they are unhappy with the regime.

Finty wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:This seem to escalating slightly. There was video footage of a burning BMP but sputnik has since removed it ????

Russia Recognises Donbass Republics' Independence

https://sputniknews.com/20220221/russia-recognises-donbass-republics-independence-1093241178.html

Russian Military and FSB Prevent Illegal Crossing of Border by Sabotage Group From Ukraine. Five members of a Ukrainian sabotage group have been killed by Russian troops and FSB border guard forces after attempting to illegally cross the Russian border, the press service of Russia's Southern Military District has announced.
The incident was said to have taken place near the border between Ukraine and the Russian region of Rostov.

Fake news, that sh*t was debunked.

I was only reporting what Sputnik had reported. And now RT with video

https://www.rt.com/russia/550157-fsb-video-ukrainian-vehicles/

Is a violation of minsk by Russia , but so kiev have been violating minsk accords too for 8 years ,
by murdering civilians and bombing their homes.. and the west never complained about that.
Still it can be reversed if ukraine step back and return to do ,what they told was going to do.. and implement minsk2 accords. if kiev do nothing , then atleast now ukies will know there will be a strong
response from russia if attack their military in donbass. so there will be major second thoughts in the ukie army to continue bombing if russia later retaliates them with far bigger force.

Now russian army is officially in donbass , will help them to punish those ukros bombing donbass.

here is chinese media report of russian army equipment
that is being sent to donbass , lost of armored infantry vehicles
and artillery too.



likely there will be a lot of modernized t-75 and t-90 tanks too.. as show of force.
donbass will become a Russian military fortress .

flamming_python wrote:

Big_Gazza wrote:

flamming_python wrote:Still no reason to make its misery worse

I view this as a betrayal of us, and the Ukrainians as well, if this war goes ahead

There won't be a war, unless the Ukronazis go full retard, in which case Russia will annihilate the Ukrop forces deployed to Donbass, then sweep the fleeing remnants from Occupied Novorossiya before depositing the body bags in neat rows on the border for an orderly pickup.

Kiev had its chance for over 7 years to avoid this.  All they needed to do was implement Minsk 2 and their sovereignty over Donbass (and its eventual return) would have been assured.  Instead they permitted the Ukronazi factions to indulge in ethnically-motivated widespread murder and destruction, and played a delaying game while they sought Western cash and weapons to rebuild their military so that they could take the oblasts by force. F#ck Kiev and the corrupt bastards who run it.  The murder and mayhem stops now. Proceed further at your own risk, and keep in mind what happened to Saakashvilli

BTW since you're Russian, I would have expected you would have a better grasp of what is at stake here...

I'm not going to carry water for Putin. **** that guy.

That whole little war between the rebels and Ukrainians over the past few day was a phony one. And now this shit, with the republics of undefined borders. Genius plan by the Kremlin. Genius.

Bro I admire your principles and I'm not a fan of Putin either but I get the feeling there is a lot of shit happening we have no idea of. The work in Kazakhstan was impressive, but the west and Ukraine is a whole other animal. The geopolitical moves have to plan for multiple contingencies and for many years ahead. I was hoping Russia would just hold off on any decision and weather the storm. But that said they cant just let Ukraine ravage the little republics

flamming_python wrote:This is going to happen if the Ukraine refuses Moscow's overtures towards returning to the Minsk agreemenets. Which it is in all rights to do, Russia has changed the terms by invading. This whole sophistry of Russia insisting that it still applies is not going to cut it.

And I am against any war spreading to there where people haven't had it. Even if they are unhappy with the regime.

The closer we are to a solution, the more uncomfortable you (and others) seem to feel. Those commie blinders and personal bias are very obviously confusing your otherwise good analysis capability.

That been said, the statements above are outright nonsense. The deployment of Russian forces is what can FINALLY end people being slaughtered in the Donbass and get a stable situation with the LOC far enough from the population and infrastructures and the nazis respecting the demilitarized areas. Putin supposedly has no balls unlike Stalin, but when he seems to use them, then he is a dictator or it was too late or too soon or too hard or too soft, with nothing reasonable in between. Stop the shitshow, it is simply embarrassing to see your lot squealing when the government finally does what you have been years demanding them to do

TMA1 wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Big_Gazza wrote:

flamming_python wrote:Still no reason to make its misery worse

I view this as a betrayal of us, and the Ukrainians as well, if this war goes ahead

There won't be a war, unless the Ukronazis go full retard, in which case Russia will annihilate the Ukrop forces deployed to Donbass, then sweep the fleeing remnants from Occupied Novorossiya before depositing the body bags in neat rows on the border for an orderly pickup.

Kiev had its chance for over 7 years to avoid this.  All they needed to do was implement Minsk 2 and their sovereignty over Donbass (and its eventual return) would have been assured.  Instead they permitted the Ukronazi factions to indulge in ethnically-motivated widespread murder and destruction, and played a delaying game while they sought Western cash and weapons to rebuild their military so that they could take the oblasts by force. F#ck Kiev and the corrupt bastards who run it.  The murder and mayhem stops now. Proceed further at your own risk, and keep in mind what happened to Saakashvilli

BTW since you're Russian, I would have expected you would have a better grasp of what is at stake here...

I'm not going to carry water for Putin. **** that guy.

That whole little war between the rebels and Ukrainians over the past few day was a phony one. And now this shit, with the republics of undefined borders. Genius plan by the Kremlin. Genius.

Bro I admire your principles and I'm not a fan of Putin either but I get the feeling there is a lot of shit happening we have no idea of. The work in Kazakhstan was impressive, but the west and Ukraine is a whole other animal. The geopolitical moves have to plan for multiple contingencies and for many years ahead. I was hoping Russia would just hold off on any decision and weather the storm. But that said they cant just let Ukraine ravage the little republics

If Russia ends up with a war in the Ukraine, with all these little manuevers, then maybe it should have never posted its demands against NATO in the first place? If this is the whole cunning plan that our great leaders could come up with, or otherwise ended up with.

"Russian Foreign Ministry stated on Tuesday that Moscow recognises the Donbass republics within borders where LPR and DPR authorities exercise their powers deputy minister Andrei Rudenko said."

https://sputniknews.com/20220222/foreign-ministry-moscow-recognises-dpr-and-lpr-within-borders-where-republics-exercise-their-powers-1093264860.html

It's quite simple. The demands were exactly being met. US and what not promised as usual but kept arming Ukraine regardless. Minsk 2 was being broken since day one and nothing happened besides civilians on LDNR side getting killed. Russias hands were forced. It also proved another point - Russia wasn't bluffing.

As pointed out by Russias UN ambassador. Minsk2 isn't dead and now it's Ukraines turn. Simply put, Ukraine wasn't willing to follow Minsk 2 then, it will now cause if they decide to strike directly at Russians, we got a Georgia 2.0 event and that's it for Ukraine.

LMFS wrote:

flamming_python wrote:This is going to happen if the Ukraine refuses Moscow's overtures towards returning to the Minsk agreemenets. Which it is in all rights to do, Russia has changed the terms by invading. This whole sophistry of Russia insisting that it still applies is not going to cut it.

And I am against any war spreading to there where people haven't had it. Even if they are unhappy with the regime.

The closer we are to a solution, the more uncomfortable you (and others) seem to feel. Those commie blinders and personal bias are very obviously confusing your otherwise good analysis capability.

That been said, the statements above are outright nonsense. The deployment of Russian forces is what can FINALLY end people being slaughtered in the Donbass and get a stable situation with the LOC far enough from the population and infrastructures and the nazis respecting the demilitarized areas. Putin supposedly has no balls unlike Stalin, but when he seems to use them, then he is a dictator or it was too late or too soon or too hard or too soft, with nothing reasonable in between. Stop the shitshow, it is simply embarrassing to see your lot squealing when the government finally does what you have been years demanding them to do

No. I refuse.

All this shit is doing is turning Russia into an oppressor against the self-determination of Ukrainians, and turning Zelensky into a martyr. If Russia wants to take the rebel regions so then take them, but why insist on Minsk to be implemented afterwards?

He has also compromised his support, I think, in Russian society itself. To what extent I don't know. This is not good either, in a time of confrontation.

flamming_python wrote:

LMFS wrote:

flamming_python wrote:This is going to happen if the Ukraine refuses Moscow's overtures towards returning to the Minsk agreemenets. Which it is in all rights to do, Russia has changed the terms by invading. This whole sophistry of Russia insisting that it still applies is not going to cut it.

And I am against any war spreading to there where people haven't had it. Even if they are unhappy with the regime.

The closer we are to a solution, the more uncomfortable you (and others) seem to feel. Those commie blinders and personal bias are very obviously confusing your otherwise good analysis capability.

That been said, the statements above are outright nonsense. The deployment of Russian forces is what can FINALLY end people being slaughtered in the Donbass and get a stable situation with the LOC far enough from the population and infrastructures and the nazis respecting the demilitarized areas. Putin supposedly has no balls unlike Stalin, but when he seems to use them, then he is a dictator or it was too late or too soon or too hard or too soft, with nothing reasonable in between. Stop the shitshow, it is simply embarrassing to see your lot squealing when the government finally does what you have been years demanding them to do

No. I refuse.

All this shit is doing is turning Russia into an oppressor against the self-determination of Ukrainians, and turning Zelensky into a martyr. If Russia wants to take the rebel regions so then take them, but why insist on Minsk to be implemented afterwards?

You can refuse whatever you like. It was obvious from day one Ukraine wasn't gonna do what it said, and break all agreements. To you it may look like Russia is the aggressor. But to a smart person, who was paying attention to the last 7+ years, it would see that Russia made the move to protect the locals and force Ukraines hand.

This is actually a very popular move amongst nearly all classes in Russia besides the libtards. Judging by your reaction, now we all know where you stand.

Edit: I should add that I know you aren't one of those people, but how you stand, it's the same as them. I have already heard enough about Russia and Putin from the libtards in India and Pakistan regarding this while the patriots of these countries respect this move.

miketheterrible wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

LMFS wrote:

flamming_python wrote:This is going to happen if the Ukraine refuses Moscow's overtures towards returning to the Minsk agreemenets. Which it is in all rights to do, Russia has changed the terms by invading. This whole sophistry of Russia insisting that it still applies is not going to cut it.

And I am against any war spreading to there where people haven't had it. Even if they are unhappy with the regime.

The closer we are to a solution, the more uncomfortable you (and others) seem to feel. Those commie blinders and personal bias are very obviously confusing your otherwise good analysis capability.

That been said, the statements above are outright nonsense. The deployment of Russian forces is what can FINALLY end people being slaughtered in the Donbass and get a stable situation with the LOC far enough from the population and infrastructures and the nazis respecting the demilitarized areas. Putin supposedly has no balls unlike Stalin, but when he seems to use them, then he is a dictator or it was too late or too soon or too hard or too soft, with nothing reasonable in between. Stop the shitshow, it is simply embarrassing to see your lot squealing when the government finally does what you have been years demanding them to do

No. I refuse.

All this shit is doing is turning Russia into an oppressor against the self-determination of Ukrainians, and turning Zelensky into a martyr. If Russia wants to take the rebel regions so then take them, but why insist on Minsk to be implemented afterwards?

You can refuse whatever you like. It was obvious from day one Ukraine wasn't gonna do what it said, and break all agreements. To you it may look like Russia is the aggressor. But to a smart person, who was paying attention to the last 7+ years, it would see that Russia made the move to protect the locals and force Ukraines hand.

This is actually a very popular move amongst nearly all classes in Russia besides the libtards. Judging by your reaction, now we all know where you stand.

Edit: I should add that I know you aren't one of those people, but how you stand, it's the same as them. I have already heard enough about Russia and Putin from the libtards in India and Pakistan regarding this while the patriots of these countries respect this move.

I'm against war, what don't you understand?

The objective is not just these 2 tiny territories. What happens when the Ukraine refuses to abide by Minsk outright, this time with all legal justification?

What we can hope from this is that the bloodshed ends and Minsk 2 is aheard to. I doubt it. Ukrainians are thick in the head people. Many will attempt to now start the war and it won't end well for Ukraine.

As well Flaming, I should add, even before Russia entered Ukraine or even before this conflict at all, the west and liberals saw Putin and Russia as the aggressor and Ukraine the poor innocent country. That did **** all for Russia and the people in the region in the end.

flamming_python wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

LMFS wrote:

flamming_python wrote:This is going to happen if the Ukraine refuses Moscow's overtures towards returning to the Minsk agreemenets. Which it is in all rights to do, Russia has changed the terms by invading. This whole sophistry of Russia insisting that it still applies is not going to cut it.

And I am against any war spreading to there where people haven't had it. Even if they are unhappy with the regime.

The closer we are to a solution, the more uncomfortable you (and others) seem to feel. Those commie blinders and personal bias are very obviously confusing your otherwise good analysis capability.

That been said, the statements above are outright nonsense. The deployment of Russian forces is what can FINALLY end people being slaughtered in the Donbass and get a stable situation with the LOC far enough from the population and infrastructures and the nazis respecting the demilitarized areas. Putin supposedly has no balls unlike Stalin, but when he seems to use them, then he is a dictator or it was too late or too soon or too hard or too soft, with nothing reasonable in between. Stop the shitshow, it is simply embarrassing to see your lot squealing when the government finally does what you have been years demanding them to do

No. I refuse.

All this shit is doing is turning Russia into an oppressor against the self-determination of Ukrainians, and turning Zelensky into a martyr. If Russia wants to take the rebel regions so then take them, but why insist on Minsk to be implemented afterwards?

You can refuse whatever you like. It was obvious from day one Ukraine wasn't gonna do what it said, and break all agreements. To you it may look like Russia is the aggressor. But to a smart person, who was paying attention to the last 7+ years, it would see that Russia made the move to protect the locals and force Ukraines hand.

This is actually a very popular move amongst nearly all classes in Russia besides the libtards. Judging by your reaction, now we all know where you stand.

Edit: I should add that I know you aren't one of those people, but how you stand, it's the same as them. I have already heard enough about Russia and Putin from the libtards in India and Pakistan regarding this while the patriots of these countries respect this move.

I'm against war, what don't you understand?

The objective is not just these 2 tiny territories. What happens when the Ukraine refuses to abide by Minsk outright, this time with all legal justification?

War is inevitable for the most part. It is now the do or die moment for Ukraine.

The situation was: Ukraine didn't give a shit and would shell and kill civilians. Russia looked bad for not attempting to protect these civilians and the world saw Russia as weak. Ukraine kept goading Russia and the LDNR for years now with western help. Both UK and US and Canada actively pushing Ukraine to start the conflict.  So what do they do? They started attacking at civilians and LDNR forces yet again.  They have done this multiple times now every year for now 8 years.

In the end, Russia knew they have had no choice. Sitting down and talking while watching the people die wouldn't do anything. Ukraine is cracking as it is and so their view is "go big or go home". But with these events, it now forces Ukraine to make a decision, either start a war that will finish this conflict ultimately, or go back to the table and actually follow Minsk 2 without killing anyone.

You don't have to like it. No one does. But the west and Ukraine forced russias hands. If Russia decided not to do this, it will be business as usual with a lot more dead civilians over a long period of time and Ukraine would get more western weapons, more western support and possibly western assets moving into that area to assist.  Because they would see Russia was all talk and no bite.

As for looking like a bad guy and what not, this was decided by CNN, BBC, and every other western outlet. They all determined Russia was the bad guy. Like how China is always the bad guy, or how Modi is always the bad guy, or how Duterte is always the bad guy. What does it matter? It doesn't. The Chinese are for this. So are most. Because they have their own fish to fry and are worried about being isolated if they do. Now they know someone else big and powerful will actually act rather than talk.

Nordstrom 2 now gone.

I think Vlad played his cards very well indeed. This is certainly a victory for Russia and the Russian people of Donetsk and Luhansk. In the end its even a victory for Ukraine in that it prevented a full scale war and a blood bath. The West on the other hand has lost out big time and all the up coming sanctions against Russia will hurt the EU much more (Nordstream2 incl). It's obviously not the end of all this shit but its a good start. It should have been done 8 years ago.

We may even see Odessa and Mariupol join the Russians in the next couple of years?

George1 wrote:Its a historical moment..

For the west it´s a hysterical moment.

>nordstream 2 was going to get shut down no matter what. America is desperate to shut it down. Look what they tried to pull in Syria in an attempt to get pipelines to run thru turkey and bypass Russia. This isnt a game. The west has ideologically insane leaders.

About Russia's demands for NATO not to expand, amongst other demands. The more I see what has happened, particularly in Kazakhstan, and the timing of the Olympics. The west was already planning major destabilization projects and I think the ruskies were trying to get ahead of them with their demands. Frankly some people here sound like Twitter commenters with their goofy war drumming or the opposed posters implying the ruskies are despoting land grabbers.

This is not the case. I dont think people here realize how precarious the situation is. I also get the feeling the chinese are backing off of their previous loud statements of support for russia. Fucking chinese have always been duplicitous and untrustworthy. If Russia is going this path then I think they dont have too many other options. Flaming Python. What other choices are available? Have you seen America and UK's acts and media manipulations? You talk as if Russia has all the options and thry are just carelessly pushing to war.

"I will conclude by a warning: I fully expect the CIA/MI6 agents in Russia (5th column: liberals; 6th column: emo-Marxists and pseudo-patriots) to unleash a MAJOR PSYOP offensive against Putin personally and this decision. Arguments will include anything and everything in between “not enough” and “too much” including the inevitable “too little too late”. If there is one thing you need to know about both the 5th and 6th columns in Russia is that for them any success by Putin (or even while Putin is in power) is categorically unacceptable and must be denied at all costs. So while they claim to hate each other, they really hate Putin much more. In fact, they hate Putin much, much more than they love Russia."

Quote from the Saker.

TMA1 wrote:>nordstream 2 was going to get shut down no matter what. America is desperate to shut it down. Look what they tried to pull in Syria in an attempt to get pipelines to run thru turkey and bypass Russia. This isnt a game. The west has ideologically insane leaders.

About Russia's demands for NATO not to expand, amongst other demands. The more I see what has happened, particularly in Kazakhstan, and the timing of the Olympics. The west was already planning major destabilization projects and I think the ruskies were trying to get ahead of them with their demands. Frankly some people here sound like Twitter commenters with their goofy war drumming or the opposed posters implying the ruskies are despoting land grabbers.

This is not the case. I dont think people here realize how precarious the situation is. I also get the feeling the chinese are backing off of their previous loud statements of support for russia. Fucking chinese have always been duplicitous and untrustworthy. If Russia is going this path then I think they dont have too many other options. Flaming Python. What other choices are available? Have you seen America and UK's acts and media manipulations? You talk as if Russia has all the options and thry are just carelessly pushing to war.

China doesn't need to say anything. They know they will need support eventually too.

Do you expect China to be parading around praising putin every second?