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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    GarryB
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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 18 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    Post  GarryB Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:21 pm

    What Su-57M2? was that announced anywhere else with the Su-60?

    The even number (ie 60) would suggest a dedicated strike version... like the Su-34 is a strike aircraft with self defence air to air capacity, but Su-35 is fully multirole too so rather unnecessary.

    The next gen AAMs should be compatible with all new Russian aircraft.
    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:57 pm

    limb wrote:So Su-57M upgrades are just sensors and avionics. Still important. Lets hope it can use R-77Ms

    For aircraft like the Su-57, sensors and avionics are the most important aspect.

    Engines are nice, but the soooner you detect your opponent and the more situational awareness you have around you, the higher your chances of survival.

    Soviets had a silly habit of holding back on sensors and EW on their aircraft, leading to incedents like Iranian F-14s taking out a number of iraqi migs without them even knowing that the were BVR killed.
    Iraq thought it was a maintanence problem.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:20 pm

    New photo? Or someone's imagination?

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 18 Fg_RVoVXoAIWgbG?format=jpg&name=small

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    zepia
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    Post  zepia Tue Nov 08, 2022 7:17 am

    It's a CG, by this artist.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CUQng8lsBTc

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:19 am

    Soviets had a silly habit of holding back on sensors and EW on their aircraft, leading to incedents like Iranian F-14s taking out a number of iraqi migs without them even knowing that the were BVR killed.
    Iraq thought it was a maintanence problem.

    The Soviets were smart enough to downgrade their export aircraft so when the CIA compromised the design they didn't learn anything useful about Soviet aircraft.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:16 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Soviets had a silly habit of holding back on sensors and EW on their aircraft, leading to incedents like Iranian F-14s taking out a number of iraqi migs without them even knowing that the were BVR killed.
    Iraq thought it was a maintanence problem.

    The Soviets were smart enough to downgrade their export aircraft so when the CIA compromised the design they didn't learn anything useful about Soviet aircraft.

    But your allies get shitty equipment.

    The best is to make export version stuff that aren't used by your own forces but with the same level of technology.
    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 Tue Nov 08, 2022 1:36 pm

    Isos wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    Soviets had a silly habit of holding back on sensors and EW on their aircraft, leading to incedents like Iranian F-14s taking out a number of iraqi migs without them even knowing that the were BVR killed.
    Iraq thought it was a maintanence problem.

    The Soviets were smart enough to downgrade their export aircraft so when the CIA compromised the design they didn't learn anything useful about Soviet aircraft.

    But your allies get shitty equipment.

    The best is to make export version stuff that aren't used by your own forces but with the same level of technology.

    Exactly, basically what Russia is doing now, lesser performance, but not to the point where they are monkey variants.

    The Soviets had numerous issues with basic stuff like MAWS and IFFs, meaning their allies kept either shooting themselves down because of lack of IFF and/or not getting any warning that they've been locked-on.
    Terrible combination, Syrian Mig-23s suffered greatly during the conflict with Israel thanks to this.
    Soviets did correct course after that with new mig-23 model, but for some reason again repeated the same mistakes with the Iraqi Mig-29 AKA: the 9.12B models.

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    Post  Swgman_BK Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:44 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    Soviets had a silly habit of holding back on sensors and EW on their aircraft, leading to incedents like Iranian F-14s taking out a number of iraqi migs without them even knowing that the were BVR killed.
    Iraq thought it was a maintanence problem.

    The Soviets were smart enough to downgrade their export aircraft so when the CIA compromised the design they didn't learn anything useful about Soviet aircraft.

    But your allies get shitty equipment.

    The best is to make export version stuff that aren't used by your own forces but with the same level of technology.

    Exactly, basically what Russia is doing now, lesser performance, but not to the point where they are monkey variants.

    The Soviets had numerous issues with basic stuff like MAWS and IFFs, meaning their allies kept either shooting themselves down because of lack of IFF and/or not getting any warning that they've been locked-on.
    Terrible combination, Syrian Mig-23s suffered greatly during the conflict with Israel thanks to this.
    Soviets did correct course after that with new mig-23 model, but for some reason again repeated the same mistakes with the Iraqi Mig-29 AKA: the 9.12B models.





    I know people in America who think the Iraqi Mig29s were the best of the Soviet Union. They think any export Mig was the best of the Soviet Union.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 09, 2022 3:03 am

    But your allies get shitty equipment.

    The best is to make export version stuff that aren't used by your own forces but with the same level of technology.

    You mean like no one else does?

    Who can afford to produce an entire second tier range of weapons and aircraft that is not good enough for your main customer?

    Plus the equipment they buy is their choice... they can refuse it and make their own if they want to... for these countries these are still the best weapons they can buy and they buy them... you don't think those Iranian F-14s were D model F-14s do you?

    Interestingly the Soviets already did create export versions of their aircraft but let their customers add what they wanted... when it was first introduced the Indian Su-30MKI was the most capable Flanker in service by anyone... the only possible exception would be the Fullback in terms of strike performance.

    The US sold modified jet trainers to central and south american countries... and also to Iran.... what do you think an F-5 really is other than a T-38.

    Exactly, basically what Russia is doing now, lesser performance, but not to the point where they are monkey variants.

    They let their clients add western shit if they want that, so they are not downgraded at all except for a few top secret elements.

    The Soviets had numerous issues with basic stuff like MAWS and IFFs, meaning their allies kept either shooting themselves down because of lack of IFF and/or not getting any warning that they've been locked-on.
    Terrible combination, Syrian Mig-23s suffered greatly during the conflict with Israel thanks to this.
    Soviets did correct course after that with new mig-23 model, but for some reason again repeated the same mistakes with the Iraqi Mig-29 AKA: the 9.12B models.

    The Americans shot down two blackhawk helicopters just after Desert Storm in the early 1990s because they thought they were Hinds... IFF systems are complex and require highly disciplined use by all parties or you end up shooting down your own aircraft anyway... patriot shot down western planes too... because someone didn't get the settings right.

    Giving them IFF and MAWS would not have completely solved the problem and most of those military structures would be riddled with moles so I don't think the solution would be worth a lot... compared with potential costs... give them the best ejection systems and send them more planes... they usually didn't care about losses either.

    I know people in America who think the Iraqi Mig29s were the best of the Soviet Union. They think any export Mig was the best of the Soviet Union.

    Late model MiG-23s had better IRSTs and radar and missiles than export model MiG-29s, but export model MiG-29s seemed to clean up the HATO fighters during testing and training with East German models, which is why HATO was so keen to get that training to learn to fight these aircraft, because otherwise they would be in trouble.

    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 Thu Nov 10, 2022 3:04 am

    GarryB wrote:The Americans shot down two blackhawk helicopters just after Desert Storm in the early 1990s because they thought they were Hinds... IFF systems are complex and require highly disciplined use by all parties or you end up shooting down your own aircraft anyway... patriot shot down western planes too... because someone didn't get the settings right.

    Giving them IFF and MAWS would not have completely solved the problem and most of those military structures would be riddled with moles so I don't think the solution would be worth a lot... compared with potential costs... give them the best ejection systems and send them more planes... they usually didn't care about losses either.

    Better something than nothing, else you gonna lose all your loyal customers.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Nov 10, 2022 9:29 am

    IFF and MAWS are like IADS... most countries will buy an air defence missile or gun platform, but what they rarely do is buy all the management and communications and command systems behind the air defence vehicle that links them all together and shares information and control to effectively use the AD systems together.

    It is very much like giving a man in every town a pistol and a badge and calling them the sheriff... on paper that looks OK but any time more than one criminal is a problem at a time then that cop is in serious trouble because with no radio and no car or bike they can really only ensure law abiding is done in a radius of perhaps 50m around their current position.

    Hire teams, give them radios and dog teams and armed response teams and coordinate actions with nearby towns and cities across the country and all of a sudden you have a much more effective force.

    Traditionally those countries that Russia or the Soviet Union supported often got subsidised weapon purchases... sometimes they were freebies... other times they did pay but it was nothing to do with their actual defence needs really, though neighbours and rivals often can be dealt with... it is when the entire west gets involved that some problems arise.

    And honestly often the solution is not IFF or MAWS... it is just having a decent missile... the R-3 and R-13 were not great, R-60 was better but was a mini self defence missile rather than a sidewinder equivalent... when they got R-73 then they really were something the west would have to respect... as ground launched models showed in Yemen...

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    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:12 am

    November 22, 23:01,
    updated November 22, 23:06

    Chemezov said that Rostec supplies military products ahead of schedule

    The general director of the state corporation said that employees of Uralvagonzavod, TsNIItochmash, the Kalashnikov concern and other enterprises work in three to four shifts

    MOSCOW, 23 November. /TASS/. Enterprises of the state corporation "Rostec" are increasing the production of military products as part of the implementation of the state defense order, deliveries to the troops are often ahead of schedule. Sergey Chemezov, CEO of the state corporation, spoke about this in an interview with TASS on the eve of the 15th anniversary of Rostec.
    “Today, the enterprises of the state corporation are doing everything possible to increase the output of military products. Employees of Uralvagonzavod, TsNIItochmash, the Kalashnikov concern, the High-Precision Systems holding, enterprises of the United Aircraft Corporation and other enterprises working on The Ministry of Defense regularly receives new batches of aviation equipment, armored vehicles, artillery systems, small arms, equipment and much more," he said.

    Chemezov recalled that the state corporation accounts for almost half of the entire state defense order of the country, and its execution in recent years has been at the level of almost 100%.

    In September, Uralvagonzavod shipped a batch of TOS-1A heavy flamethrower systems to the Ministry of Defense ahead of schedule, handed over another batch of T-90M tanks, and delivered a batch of Malka self-propelled howitzers ahead of schedule in October, the head of the state corporation said.

    He also pointed to the transfer to the Aerospace Forces in September of the next batch of Su-35S fighters produced by the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Plant. Gagarin. In addition, Chemezov added, the company is expanding its production to increase the production of fifth-generation Su-57 fighters. Moreover, the fighters of 2022 are in a high degree of readiness and will soon be handed over to the customer, he stressed.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/16400595

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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:46 pm

    Just want to keep the photonic radar hype for Su-57 alive. http://www.promweekly.ru/book/Phasatron-100_years.pdf

    pdf page 14

    The inexhaustibility of scientific thought
    Among the promising developments are conformal AFARs that can fit
    into the aircraft fuselage, and
    the so-called "smart" airframe skin.
    In next generation fighters,
    including PAK FA,
    it will become, as it were, a single transceiver locator, providing the pilot with complete information
    about what is happening around the aircraft.
    Fazotron-NIIR continues development
    national radar. The Corporation has developed and mass-produced
    multifunctional airborne radar stations of the “4+” and “4++” generation
    for the Russian Air Force and foreign customers.
    Photonic technologies used today
    will expand the capabilities of the radar,
    reduce its mass by more than half, and increase its resolution tenfold.
    Such radars with radio-optical phased antenna arrays are capable of making a kind of “X-ray image”
    aircraft located more than
    500 kilometers, and give them a detailed, three-dimensional image. This technology
    allows you to look inside the object, find out
    what equipment does it carry, how many people are in it
    located, and even see their faces.
    Fazotron-NIIR Corporation in the 21st century —
    one of the most significant strategic
    defense enterprises of Russia thanks to its unique technologies, know-how,
    production base and highly professional personnel. Today color and pride
    his scientific school is A. Kanashchenkov,
    Yu. Guskov, V. Frantsev, I. Ryzhak, I. Tsivlin, O. Samarin, V. Babichev, A. Matyushin,
    V. Ratner, V. Kustov, V. Kurilkin, N. Gorkin,
    P. Kolodin, S. Loginov, S. Zaikin and others.
    No matter what ups and downs it goes through
    enterprise, one for a hundred years
    existence was unchanged - work
    for the defense of the country, for aviation, the creation of first-class equipment that has no analogues
    in the country, and sometimes in the world. And ahead
    Fazotron-NIIR Corporation has a wide
    front of work, which, undoubtedly, has not yet been
    once glorify both the enterprise itself and the country


    Everyone remembers how the photonic radar antennas looked like, if you havent here is a refresher.

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 18 Photon10

    only these radar antennas make a smart skin possible than just usually putting them in the fuselage because they were reported as being thinner than paper.

    I will be busy looking at some random promweekly.ru articles, the only reason i was browsing the website was for KRET magazines but I cant find them there since they did before provide us radar information from the K-27M and the Ka-52 Katran.

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    Post  Swgman_BK Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:05 am

    How do the photonic radars work? If I remember right they use 3D imagine of targets? Or I am wrong?

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