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    2021 Black Sea incident with professional liars (Royal Navy)

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    ALAMO

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    Post  ALAMO Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:43 am

    What is really amazing here, is the actual condition of those countries, brought on them by the 30 years old political decisions.
    Depopulated and deindustrialized countries of old people, whose fate depends on two things. The first one is if the EU will grant any more cash, and the second, if Russia will continue to export via Baltic railways and ports.
    Lithuania lost more than a million of the citizens, more than a quarter of all population. An even sharper decline was faced by Latvia, and Estonia not doing much better.
    This happened to the countries that used to have the highest living standards of the whole SU, the desired place of retirement, where the population was constantly increasing for a whole post-war period. respekt

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:04 am

    Mir wrote:
    Hole wrote:Abkhazia comes to mind.

    Russia is the official legal successor to the "Soviet Union". It would be funny if the russian duma passed a law that dismisses the breaking up of the state. Laughing

    The real kicker for me was the actions of the Baltic States. I completely understand their desire for independence, but by joining NATO they've instantly put a HUGE target on their back voluntarily!

    The best step forward would have been to declare neutrality and have good relations with the West and even Russia if they wanted to. dunno  

    The hate is what makes the world go round for these countries. They could have taken Finland and Austria as examples, but their inferiority complex
    prevented them from acting rationally. The history of the Baltic "states" is associated with the ancient trade to northern Europe via Russia to Central
    Asia. This is how Damask steel made its way to Europe from Uzbekistan. Now their dementia has stopped Russian, Belorussian and Kazakh trade through
    the major ports of Klapeida and Ventspils. The trade flow was a big part of their small economies.

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    hoom

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    Post  hoom Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:04 am

    Do you support re-establishing the Crimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic as a subject of the Union SSR and a participant of the Union Treaty?
    94% of the Crimeans voted yes, with 80% of voters participating.
    That alone would give it the right to vote in an all-Soviet referendum about dissolving or keeping the Soviet Union.
    The referendum - I will underline that - gave a result that SU should be sustained.
    This.

    I'll add that Ukraine unilaterally terminated the Autonomous constitution & threatened to use the military to enforce it.

    Anyone who claims to support democracy but is against the Crimean secession from post-coup Ukraine & accession to Russia is simply lying about their support for democracy.

    Regardless of the technicalities* the will of the vast majority of the current population is CLEARLY that they wanted to rejoin Russia and that they're still happy to have done so after the fact.

    *not just the recent post-Soviet era is full of technical illegalities, the entire recorded history of the Crimea back to ~6-800BC is full of them.

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    Post  kvs Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:30 am

    The propaganda drivel "logic" is that since Banderastan is part of the western camp it is somehow vastly superior to
    Russia. As if merely kissing Washington's ass makes a country a democracy and a great place to live. The idea that
    Crimeans chose a better life away from the control of nazionalists in Kiev is an anathema to western chauvinists.

    The Russian soldiers stationed in Crimea did not gather up to intimidate Crimeans to follow Moscow's orders. But
    the Kiev regime sent trainloads of thugs to Crimea that were there exactly to terrorize the population into loving
    Kiev and its orders. Thankfully Crimeans organized and stopped these brown shirts at the border. Russian soldiers
    made sure that the Turkish aircraft carrying jihadis to "save" the Crimean Tatars did not get to land and initiate
    an ethnic bloodbath.

    For the tin foil hat wearing "skeptics", here is a question. About 1/3 of the population of Crimea is Ukrainian. Where
    are the issues over the last 7 years associated with this population? All I ever hear about is some discontent among
    the Tatars which is rather mild to say the least considering events in Chechnya. If the 2014 referendum was "faked",
    then where is the proof on the ground? Hater scum cannot honestly answer this question and can only resort to more
    tinfoil hat drivel about how the 2.5 million people in Crimea are totally suppressed.


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    ALAMO

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:59 am

    What is particularly funny from a historical perspective is the fact, that the Soviet Union was probably more democratic at its and than any other country compared.
    Imagine the Spain or UK holding a referendum to let go Catalunya or Scotland. Yeah, we saw that, right? Catalunyan separatists of 2013 still root in jail, and we have witnessed a country on a brink of civil war.
    Europe is so fully loaded with separatism, that I actually understand its attitude.
    The fate of SU was to be established by an all-around referendum, but the results were not what local regimes expected and desired.
    People of the Soviet Union decided to keep the country together. Still, it was not enough for local party elites. Just take a look at the names of the rulers there.
    All of them, any single one, came out from republican soviets. Some of the regimes established there used to be totalitarian, but democracy and freedom-loving Ze Wezt gave a shit about that, as long as those were separating from the SU and made the SU smaller and weaker. The critical point was when the smaller nations tried to decide their fate as well, seceding from newly created subjects, because they were considering Russia as an ally and guarantee of their independance.
    And that was not allowed, because we love freedom and democracy. Laughing And we love our sons of a bitches.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:10 am

    The best step forward would have been to declare neutrality and have good relations with the West and even Russia if they wanted to.

    I suspect the problem was that they didn't get a choice...

    The pre coup Ukrainian government was anti Russian already, and the two deals they were presented with were not mutually exclusive as far as Russia was concerned.... that was a stipulation from the west that they take the EU deal and reject the Russian deal.

    I rather suspect the Baltic States really didn't get much of a choice either in terms of maintaining relations with Russia after they joined the EU and HATO.

    It is the peace loving and democracy loving west that demands exclusive contracts and for all its customers and minions to join its lynchings and sanction parties.

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    ALAMO

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:07 am

    Well, they did have a choice. I mean the Pribalts.
    All of them are shitholes that are hardly distinguished. I remember flying to Riga and landing at Vilnius once Laughing because of a storm. The flight operator simply changed the landing country Laughing
    The most bizarre part of the Baltic saga is a combination of the highest anti-Russian sentiments there combined with huge economical dependance.
    Usually, a smart dog does not bark at someone who is feeding it. But it is too much for Pribalts.
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    Post  limb Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:26 pm

    Mir wrote:
    Hole wrote:Abkhazia comes to mind.

    Russia is the official legal successor to the "Soviet Union". It would be funny if the russian duma passed a law that dismisses the breaking up of the state. Laughing

    The real kicker for me was the actions of the Baltic States. I completely understand their desire for independence, but by joining NATO they've instantly put a HUGE target on their back voluntarily!

    The best step forward would have been to declare neutrality and have good relations with the West and even Russia if they wanted to. dunno  

    The usual response to NATO expansion russia cannot force independent states not to join NATO.

    Also eastern euros legitimately believe that Russia is just itching to invade and occupy them when they get the chance. I think the screeching balts legitimately believed that russia was about to invade them. The other usual response is that russia was an evil occupier and agressor state in eastern europe s it shouldnt have occupied EE if it didnt want EE to join NATO.

    This is due to:
    Large self importance, thinking russia somehow needs eastern europe, either because they think russia selfishly wants buffer states or because putin is just evil

    Engrained Russophobia, not viewing Russia as a civilizational equal that has common or opposing interests, but as barbaric regime whose only desire is territorial conquest

    This feeling is further stoked by the Western multinational corporate propaganda machine, with its lies about russian invasion of ukraine and georgia

    Most eastern euros legitimately believe due to propaganda that Russia will invade them because they believe Russia invaded georgia and ukraine. The problem is that the latter is a lie, but its impossible to convince brainwashed eastern euros otherwise.


    Last edited by limb on Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:44 pm

    There is just no way where Russia would start a war in Europe but I must say the Bear has a very thick skin Smile

    It's time for Russia to open a few major bases in places like Cuba and Venezuela. Algeria, Libya and Vietnam should be on that list as well.

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