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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Hole
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    Post  Hole Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:58 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    LMFS wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:The meeting took place, I think on Tuesday, as per the video in Post 64 above. When Putin told Merkel/Macron a few realities of life.

    True, yet it seems EU covered all in COVID topics it seems, to make it more palatable to their audience. I don't know how much more explicit Russia can be, maybe releasing some video of an Iskander demolishing a governmental building would deliver the message through those thick ukropithecus skulls? unshaven

    Into the rada and Russia's problems go away

    Sadly no. This Nazi scum is like cockroaches. They would crawl from under the rubble and continue.
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    Post  nero Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:08 pm

    DNR/LNR just announced conscription.

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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:12 pm

    As someone mentioned earlier, ton of volunteers from Russia signing up and the old school volunteers jumping back in.

    A lot of people sympathetic and are willing to risk their lives for DNR/LNR are better and honerable compared to the drunk, high and clearly moronic Ukies who rely on murderers, jihadists and general scum to fight.

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    Post  LMFS Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:13 pm

    Hole wrote:Sadly no. This Nazi scum is like cockroaches. They would crawl from under the rubble and continue.

    Considering what has happened with the Chechen terrorists on the long run, those cockroaches better find a deep hole to hide away for the rest of their lives if they launch a war. Really

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    Post  ATLASCUB Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:38 pm

    Agency assets run the Drive's Warzone. You don't need a paper trail or "damaging leak" to recognize their stamp. Not sure what people expect from that outlet? I think it's a good source for the keen eye to the sort of narrative the scribes want built for its viewer base. Standard fare.

    Favored leadership by the liberal elites of Germany and France has come to power in the U.S. Just like Obama - the engineer - was. Ideological synergy is "back" in harmony per say. To believe that France and Germany are hostage to American foreign policy is a mistake (which is constantly portrayed by commentators here - merely a projection of the "puppet caricature" built in their brain to avoid recognizing the obvious fact - both nations are firm historical and geopolitical enemies of Russia which battle for zero sum control of the European region vs. Russia. In other words, this is a concerted strategic plan to contain Russia, with cooperation in no small part from those states because it serves their greater strategic interests (controlling the EU region (EU project), keeping Russia and its elites out, while still having some business (coexistence) and avoiding major war - a balancing play those states have played extremely well to their benefit and to Russia's detriment).

    Berlin and France with the EU, in allegiance with the U.S have achieved what neither Napoleon nor Hitler could through cannon fire or bayonet..... it's through treachery and deceit in "peace time" that success is achieved and also due in no small part to Russian elite (Soviet) stupidity, incompetence, criminality and degradation. No need to look further than Russia's official current borders map and all the instability that surrounds it. It's designed to be that way so it's. Russia is incapable of resisting those designs, or to better phrase it... stamping them out before they ignite.... much less projecting power to put their eternal competitors in a similar bind like back in the Soviet days of socialist world revolution (peak Russian/Slavic global power to any point in the globe). The destruction of Yugoslavia....a correction of "historical wrongs" to Germanic people (in the view of German elites) was the first blow of the German elite against Russia after German reunification (such a Russian gift)...although one could say not renouncing to NATO could be the only humiliation you were ever going to need... the treachery and failure laid bare... but we usually judge the start of history by some gravely hostile action, such as war. It's always the U.S that is portrayed as the main boogeyman (for they take lead) but it's Merkel of Germany making the trips to Montenegro and elsewhere.... the EU project somehow magically absorb the principalities and subsidizes them.

    Ukraine is an open wound in Russia's body that fails to heal itself.... a wound that Sputnik V can't cure. Certainly Putin and the Russian leadership don't have the cure, despite their weak attempts to manufacture a clean one.... that's is, through antibodies, with antibiotics (calls for peace, restraint, agreements, "gentleman understandings"  The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 5 1f606 ) and antibacterials (Russia pro-parties and insurrection). Clearly the only effective available "cure" to get the wound under control and to its natural healing phase is is through the ugly, hurtful burning of the skin (war). It's a crude solution, leaves a scar, hurts... but the only solution Russians can come up with vs. their adversaries. Some would say it shows lack of strategic foresight, and poor decision making at the leadership level (of those acting on information) for the result of the mess Russia is in....(who to blame? Gorby and the late CCCP, or Lenin and the Bolsheviks at the very start? Khrushchev or Putin? ... list could be endless on the tree). One thing is to know a coup or color revolution is coming and cooking for several years, another is to act on intelligence with successful, well funded, and well lead counter ops to stop it in its tracks years before it ever reaches the streets...takes a lot of proactive - not reactionary "human" work. Unquestionably, it's better to prevent a disease than have to cure it. By the time these malign ops by the adversaries reach maturity stage and the streets, you've more or less lost to the opposing side, no matter the resulting degree of ideal success of the operation from that point forward. Partial failures like Belarus or successes like Ukraine are good examples. The empire and its lackeys win with both results... which is why it employs them, regardless of the "ideal" success parameters - failures of reaching such often billed as Russian "victories" - an usual delusion of the victim to feel good about its assessment of his mediocre self-defense.

    Anyway back to the analogy... the burning of the wound will solve the problem per say but it also scars the skin and hurts the patient significantly. Who creates and then pokes the wounds? The U.S and its allied partners. Russia has many such wounds currently, some hurting more than others, from Ukraine and Belarus... all the way down to Central Asia. The U.S and its partners create these wounds because they can... Russia takes it without inflicting little to nothing back directly at them (whether that be through inability, unwillingness, incompetence or a mix of all (my favored opinion)) - the calculus for them will always be easy if it stays this easy to "poke at the bear" - the bear bite back in peace time is not as advertised as in "war time" - merely growls lost in the wind. That is the power dynamics of the current time. It will continue to be that way for as long as the "West" is collectively stronger, and unified (without Russia at the helm - one of the main purposes of the historical hostility). Who is boss... simple human behavior behavior.

    While the greater Russian body is in good healthy condition, even strengthening in some aspects, these wounds hurt, and the Empire and its allied partners know they hurt. They'll keep poking at them at will because 1. they largely created them, 2. they can and feel like it. Like it or not... ideal versions of this world where everyone is happy together in one big family is a fallacy that's contrary to human nature... those that fight those notions drink themselves to ebriety with foolishness of a foolish mind (in that respect).


    Last edited by ATLASCUB on Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:34 pm; edited 6 times in total

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    Post  franco Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:39 pm

    My assessment of the present situation Very Happy

    Putin to Zelensky. I see your 300 tanks and raise you 500. attack

    Putin to Macron and Merkal. Russia has totally had it with these idiots, they start something and we will finish it fast. russia

    Putin to whomever is running the US of A. Make my day! Twisted Evil

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    Post  JohninMK Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:25 am

    Not good.

    OSINTtechnical
    @Osinttechnical
    ·
    3h
    Russian separatist controlled areas in Ukraine have announced the conscription of all eligible citizens aged 18-27.

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    Post  JohninMK Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:29 am

    The "UP Yours" Russian position. Unlikely in my view, the winning move is to show little aggression, to go home asap. So as to not frighten the natives in the EU.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 5 Ex51L5OWUAUy5JO?format=jpg&name=small

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    Post  LMFS Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:11 am

    Taking Kiev and leaving Odesa to the nazis... Rolling Eyes
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    Post  littlerabbit Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:17 am


    Odessa must be taken too. Russia needs to have direct communication with Transnistria. bounce
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:29 am

    LMFS wrote:Taking Kiev and leaving Odesa to the nazis... Rolling Eyes

    Not taking it but definitely in shooting range

    Bit that's just lines on paper, wreck them and go back
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    Post  Finty Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:41 am

    JohninMK wrote:The "UP Yours" Russian position. Unlikely in my view, the winning move is to show little aggression, to go home asap. So as to not frighten the natives in the EU.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 5 Ex51L5OWUAUy5JO?format=jpg&name=small

    That would include at least one Ukrainian air base- Myrhorod and its Su-27s. I wonder if they'd get handed back by the Russians like their MiG 29s, all hypothetical of course!
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    Post  LMFS Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:51 am

    PapaDragon wrote:Not taking it but definitely in shooting range

    Bit that's just lines on paper, wreck them and go back

    Yeah, I am not even talking about Russia taking that territory, this is really unlikely and unnecessary, they can simply crush what remains of Ukrainian military might without putting a foot in the country and then enable Novorussian forces to do the rest, liberating their territory from the nazis. Seeing the prospects of remaining in Ukraine, I am sure even mild pro-Russian people living there will be able to make a wise decision.

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    Post  Backman Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:02 am

    ATLASCUB wrote:



    Berlin and France with the EU, in allegiance with the U.S have achieved what neither Napoleon nor Hitler could through cannon fire or bayonet..... it's through treachery and deceit in "peace time" that success is achieved and also due in no small part to Russian elite (Soviet) stupidity, incompetence, criminality and degradation. .

    Its easy to say all this in hindsight. Remember the Orange Revolution in 2004 ? Russia got Ukraine back after that. When it was far weaker.

    The EU doesn't want Ukraine. It is the most hopeless nation build that the US has ever undertaken. 30% of the US dollars that ever existed were printed in 2020. I know it feels like the US can defy gravity forever. But it just wont. As impossible as it sounds, the US will confront economic reality sooner than later. And when that happens Russia will be there to take most of Ukraine back again.

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 5 Empty I think stopping NordStream 2 is the driving force for Ukraine

    Post  The_Observer Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:20 am

    I believe this latest escalation is all about Nordstream 2. Ukrainian build-up intensified as work on the pipeline began to pick up steam.
    The Ukies are desperate to stop it and the current US Admin can't do shit about it. They tried to bully the Germans and were told to pound sand. This was epitomized two days ago when the US Secretary of State was pressed about the completion of the pipeline and his response says it all. He said, " It's ultimately up to the builders to decide ".  Such a proclamation from Sec Blinken must have stung the Ukrainian side.
    Furthermore, given that there are now two pipe layers working on to finish up the pipeline, some experts have suggested that construction could be finished as early as June. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
    So the only conceivable way to get the Germans to go along with a stoppage would be to blackmail them with a Donbas war. Desperate Ukies are worried about losing transit money.
    The US Admin is wittingly or unwittingly encouraging the Ukies to set off the Donbas tripwire. Heck, even sending in "military aid"...just like in 2008.
    Whatever their intentions are, Ukrainians will be the ones suffering the material damages and Russia will have to endure more sanctions. The kind of result neo-cons like. That way, they can carry on with the endless Russia, Russia narrative.

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    Post  ATLASCUB Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:34 am

    Backman wrote:
    ATLASCUB wrote:


    Berlin and France with the EU, in allegiance with the U.S have achieved what neither Napoleon nor Hitler could through cannon fire or bayonet..... it's through treachery and deceit in "peace time" that success is achieved and also due in no small part to Russian elite (Soviet) stupidity, incompetence, criminality and degradation. .

    Its easy to say all this in hindsight. Remember the Orange Revolution in 2004 ? Russia got Ukraine back after that. When it was far weaker.

    The EU doesn't want Ukraine. It is the most hopeless nation build that the US has ever undertaken. 30% of the US dollars that ever existed were printed in 2020. I know it feels like the US can defy gravity forever. But it just wont. As impossible as it sounds, the US will confront economic reality sooner than later. And when that happens Russia will be there to take most of Ukraine back again.

    It's not a matter of analyzing a situation being easy or hard.... it's a matter of whether it's a reasonable, realistic take on the state of things. To look at it through the lens of easy, or hard is to attempt to make excuses for the failures laid bare. "It's easy to say".... an attempt at empathy. It's not a feelings thing.

    I don't think quoting the "retaking" of Ukraine from the Orange revolution really helps sell Russia's determination, drive and wits. The proof is simply the state of Ukraine today. The empire and allies merely tried again, to complete success, not partial... on their adversary home turf. It's as simple as that. By any stretch both instances are successes that were not prevented (the first line of defense) - the invisible effort (to the commoner's eye).

    The EU top dogs don't want the trouble Ukraine's full absorption causes at this moment in time (keyword, at this moment, as presently).... it's a simple cost/benefit analysis of the felt resistance in their balancing act regarding Russia. The current Ukrainian state, and its hostility towards Russia does serve however as a buffer between them and the new Russian economic/cultural expansion from East to West that Putin (Russia) was laying groundwork on. They welcome that part as a preemptive strike to protect their EU construct, of which I agree completely (from their pov).... which is why they supported the endeavour... publicly and behind the scenes.... not just in principle. As Hillary Clinton would spill out once in a while....summarizing: you don't let Russia build itself back up to former glory.... definitely not in peace. Here is what neither Germany nor France want.... Ukraine under Russia's wing serving as one of many feeding grounds for the fertility and strengthening of the Eurasian Economic Union...that can't be a success if they can help it. Too much Russian propaganda and trash has being written to create the impression the "EU" doesn't want Ukraine. It creates flawed commentary on those that digest it. I get why it's done.... that people believe it, says to the success of the narrative, but it's not a sound assessment of the geopolitics at play. It's mainly agitprop targeting the hearts and minds of Ukrainians (Russians) to create disillusionment within the disaffected. It feeds very well on the current state of things.

    As for the empire, its demise has been predicted yearly every year since forever depending on what media you digest. Kinda a mirror analogy to the way say Cuba's opponents every year profess how sure they're Cuba is on the cusp of falling and imploding since Castro took over......hec just like Ukraine, if you go by Russian propaganda. The fact is without strong nudges to that direction from outside powers....the slow rotting is well, slow. The degree to which such assessments are off-mark vary greatly for each specific case (country). Obviously there is truth to the fact that the Empire has overstretched themselves like all empires before them....not in the European region - Ukraine/Belarus/Yugoslavia being rather clean ops and great success, as was co-opting Poland and other Warsaw pact states - but it does certainly hold true to their Middle East adventures. The Americans have drunk themselves in excesses there (cost wise), neglecting China's rise on their watch - avarice got the best of their elites - a price they'll pay one day in full (already paying you could say). It's not really hard to say someday the empire will go belly up - it's simply unsustainable. They're incapable of reform (their establishment elites are imo), which is why they're on the clock at a seemingly faster rate given the rise of China and the resurgence of Russia...or with their troubles in Latin America (not as visible but there - metastasizing slowly). That expiration date however can take a long time to realize - they work hard for extensions on that clock - their job basically.
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    Post  GarryB Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:57 am

    Russia isn't taking anything.

    The sent troops to the Crimea yet actually had fewer troops in country than their agreements over Sevastopol allowed, so were within their rights to do so.

    They sent them there to keep the peace and allow the Crimean people decide for themselves.

    The Crimean people chose to join the Russian Federation.

    Russia is not going to invade the Ukraine, but I doubt they would stand aside while Kiev murders ukrainian civilians in various regions of their country.

    I honestly don't think Kiev can defeat this group on their own anyway, and if they try I am sure the leader of the so called rebels could ask Putin to send in some peace keepers and initiate a referendum for people in the region being shelled by Kiev to decide whether to remain part of the Ukraine, to separate, and whether or not to ask to join the Russian Federation or to remain independent.

    Let these Ukrainians decide their own fate.... it is not for Putin to tell them one way or the other, but it is also not the case that Putin has to accept them wanting to join the Russian federation unless the vote results in an overwhelming majority that wish to join.

    Even a 60-40 vote is not good enough... Russia does not need that 40% of Orcs inside their borders moaning and ruining things for everyone else and not pulling their weight.

    The fact is that the Ukraine is European and if you listen to Europeans Russia isn't European... so fuck Europe.... they broke the Ukraine... let them fix it.

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    Post  LMFS Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:08 am

    Yes, even if those territories would want it, Russia is not obliged to take them. And in fact they cannot probably take more than token amounts of territory / population and lift it from the third world level where they are now. It would be much better to allow these people to organize themselves as one or several republics that do not repudiate their Russian roots and start mending their relations with the RF. In the future it may or may not be reasonable to reunite with Russia, but now it would be too soon.
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    Post  JohninMK Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:28 pm


    Secretary of Defense Lloyd J. Austin III
    @SecDef
    · 17h
    I had a productive call with Ukrainian Minister of Defence Andrii Taran today. We discussed regional security, and I reaffirmed our unwavering support for Ukraine’s sovereignty, territorial integrity, and Euro-Atlantic aspirations.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 5 Ex6ITsOXAAEVv2z?format=jpg&name=small

    Teri Schultz
    @terischultz
    · 19h
    JUST IN: #NATO's North Atlantic Council held an urgent mtng today where allies "shared concerns about #Russia’s recent large-scale military activities" in eastern Ukraine and the Black Sea region.

    "We remain vigilant and continue to monitor the situation closely," an off'l says.

    Rob Lee
    @RALee85

    Ukraine's readout of the call, "The US Sec Def stressed that in the event of escalation of Russian aggression, the US will not leave Ukraine alone and will not allow the realization of aggressive aspirations of the Russian Federation towards Ukraine."
    https://mil.gov.ua/en/news/2021/0

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 5 Ex6ob8MW8AEiE-H?format=jpg&name=small

    Rob Lee
    @RALee85
    ·
    19h
    An explanation of why the DoD is expressing concern. Another interpretation of these moves is that Russia is demonstrating to Ukraine that it can quickly mass significant combat power in the Donbas or Crimea if Ukraine attempts to retake the regions.
    https://cbsnews.com/news/russia-tr


    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 5 Ex51DuwW8AA0s81?format=png&name=medium

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    Post  The_Observer Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:46 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Secretary of Defense Lloyd J. Austin III
    @SecDef
    · 17h
    I had a productive call with Ukrainian Minister of Defence Andrii Taran today. We discussed regional security, and I reaffirmed our unwavering support for Ukraine’s sovereignty, territorial integrity, and Euro-Atlantic aspirations.

    Teri Schultz
    @terischultz
    · 19h
    JUST IN: #NATO's North Atlantic Council held an urgent mtng today where allies "shared concerns about #Russia’s recent large-scale military activities" in eastern Ukraine and the Black Sea region.

    "We remain vigilant and continue to monitor the situation closely," an off'l says.

    Rob Lee
    @RALee85

    Ukraine's readout of the call, "The US Sec Def stressed that in the event of escalation of Russian aggression, the US will not leave Ukraine alone and will not allow the realization of aggressive aspirations of the Russian Federation towards Ukraine."
    https://mil.gov.ua/en/news/2021/0

    Rob Lee
    @RALee85
    ·
    19h
    An explanation of why the DoD is expressing concern. Another interpretation of these moves is that Russia is demonstrating to Ukraine that it can quickly mass significant combat power in the Donbas or Crimea if Ukraine attempts to retake the regions.
    https://cbsnews.com/news/russia-tr

    It's incredible the scale of gaslighting that is taking place. How in the world can an honest observer conclude that Russia is instigating this current escalation?
    How is it that not a single soul anywhere will acknowledge that Russia's rather limited troop movements are in reaction to a much larger Ukrainian troop deployment in and around the conflict zone?
    Is there not a single honest journalist, observer anywhere?
    Seeing so many blue-checkmarked armchair analysts on Twitter claiming/insinuating this "Russian aggression" is an attempt to open up the Crimean canal. Dumb fucks.
    Sometimes, I wonder if this is a coordinated disinformation campaign (the kind that they love the blame on Russia) or if these are just clueless twitter idiots regurgitating information they see floating around in their echo chamber....perhaps, it's a combination of both.

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    Post  JohninMK Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:37 pm

    The_Observer wrote:
    It's incredible the scale of gaslighting that is taking place. How in the world can an honest observer conclude that Russia is instigating this current escalation?
    How is it that not a single soul anywhere will acknowledge that Russia's rather limited troop movements are in reaction to a much larger Ukrainian troop deployment in and around the conflict zone?
    Is there not a single honest journalist, observer anywhere?

    Here we go, this is pretty good

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russian-tanks-move-toward-ukraine-globe-braces-world-war-3


    Whilst here is another Drive article where, if you deep dive into the comments, you might find me enjoying myself Smile

    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/40016/russian-armor-floods-toward-border-with-ukraine-amid-fears-of-an-imminent-crisis

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    Post  miketheterrible Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:39 pm

    It's a lot of bullshit. Easy as that. Russia can and will move troops wherever they want in their own country. US moves it to any country outside of their own.

    Russia though plays quiet. Instead, they need to be rather harsh back with words by telling the Americans that if they continue to try and tell Russia where and when they can move their own troops on their own country, they will soon find that they will decide where and when on their own accord to where they will place troops outside of their own.

    And also, no one actually believes this shit. Only dumb asses. Western Europeans, Canadians and Americans

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    Post  miketheterrible Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:49 pm

    Btw, no, USA won't go to war for Ukraine. US troops fled in Syria when Russian troops were approaching.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 5 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  JohninMK Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:21 pm

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 5 Ex-lQDxWYAUxzcV?format=png&name=900x900
    The_Observer
    The_Observer

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 5 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

    Post  The_Observer Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:30 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    The_Observer wrote:
    It's incredible the scale of gaslighting that is taking place. How in the world can an honest observer conclude that Russia is instigating this current escalation?
    How is it that not a single soul anywhere will acknowledge that Russia's rather limited troop movements are in reaction to a much larger Ukrainian troop deployment in and around the conflict zone?
    Is there not a single honest journalist, observer anywhere?

    Here we go, this is pretty good

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russian-tanks-move-toward-ukraine-globe-braces-world-war-3


    Whilst here is another Drive article where, if you deep dive into the comments, you might find me enjoying myself Smile

    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/40016/russian-armor-floods-toward-border-with-ukraine-amid-fears-of-an-imminent-crisis

    It had to be ZeroHedge; the news outlet that is currently locked away in google's gulags.
    Only outlets like that will have the balls to put out anything remotely objective on the issue.

    Drive articles and comments are just pure unadulterated bile. I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole, but I'm glad you are having fun though Very Happy

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #29 - Page 5 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #29

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