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    Russian Radar systems

    George1
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    Post  George1 on Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:53 pm

    The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are conducting exercises to combat drones: the Podlet-K1 and Niobium radars are involved

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS on Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:13 pm

    There seems to be progress at the new Konteyner at Zeya:
    Russian Radar systems - Page 22 Zeya_010

    I used the coordinates that our friend Austin had provided some time ago:

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t8378p425-russian-radar-systems#277722

    The links provided at that post give many insights, really nice ones thumbsup

    BTW where is Austin??

    franco
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    Post  franco on Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:25 pm

    I'm sorry but I'm just seeing a logging clear-cut operation so far. May be missing something somewhere.
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS on Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:59 pm

    franco wrote:I'm sorry but I'm just seeing a logging clear-cut operation so far. May be missing something somewhere.

    The previous pictures were showing much less advance:
    Russian Radar systems - Page 22 Screenshot-2020-03-04-at-12.18.31

    Do you know how to check the date of the pictures in Google Maps?
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    Post  franco on Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:17 am

    Looking at 19 Sept 2020 on my Google Pro so yes Smile

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    Post  LMFS on Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:30 am

    Radar "Yakhroma" in Crimea will operate in four bands

    Its view will be 270 degrees

    TASS, January 4. The newest radar station "Yakhroma", the construction of which in Crimea was announced by the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Sergei Shoigu at the annual board of the Ministry of Defense, will operate in four ranges with a view of 270 degrees. A source in the military-industrial complex told TASS about it.

    "This station has no analogues, it will operate in four bands: meter, centimeter, decimeter and millimeter," the agency's interlocutor said, specifying that the station's view would be 270 degrees.

    In December 2020, during the final collegium of the military department, Russian Defense Minister General of the Army Sergei Shoigu announced that the construction of the newest Yakhroma radar station in Sevastopol would begin in 2021.

    The station will enter the missile attack warning system. The main purpose of the system is to detect and escort ballistic missiles fired at the territory of the Russian Federation or its allies as soon as possible.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/10402757

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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik on Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:52 am

    LMFS wrote:[b]Radar "Yakhroma" in Crimea will operate in four bands[/b
    "This station has no analogues, it will operate in four bands: meter, centimeter, decimeter and millimeter," the agency's interlocutor said, specifying that the

    It just has to be a photonic radar with that many bands, I am very sure of it thanks for the great news.
    marcellogo
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    Post  marcellogo on Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:20 am

    thegopnik wrote:
    LMFS wrote:[b]Radar "Yakhroma" in Crimea will operate in four bands[/b
    "This station has no analogues, it will operate in four bands: meter, centimeter, decimeter and millimeter," the agency's interlocutor said, specifying that the

    It just has to be a photonic radar with that many bands, I am very sure of it thanks for the great news.

    That we can say for sure, if it has just a single antenna and still operate in four bands, is that it is made using  SDR and reconfigurable antenna technologies.
    A giant leap onward in any case but for a photonic radar you will need another step i.e passing from radio waves to photonic ones.

    Maybe they have already achieved it but atm we cannot say it for sure.
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    Post  LMFS on Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:11 pm

    We don't know how the array is made or if there are actually several arrays. Photonics is not the only way, in fact a ROAR would have way bigger bandwidth.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:30 pm

    LMFS wrote:We don't know how the array is made or if there are actually several arrays. Photonics is not the only way, in fact a ROAR would have way bigger bandwidth.
    Photonics is the computer processing aspect behind ROFAR, they still emit microwave radiation (as opposed some people believing it's LIDAR), as Rostec's Director-General Alexander Mikheyev has stated. He also stated that photonic (computing) could be just as easily used to enhance sonar, which works on diametrical different principles of physics compared to radar.
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    Post  LMFS on Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:08 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Photonics is the computer processing aspect behind ROFAR, they still emit microwave radiation (as opposed some people believing it's LIDAR), as Rostec's Director-General Alexander Mikheyev has stated. He also stated that photonic (computing) could be just as easily used to enhance sonar, which works on diametrical different principles of physics compared to radar.

    As far as I understand, the computing is not optical, but just the RF signal conversion.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:52 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Photonics is the computer processing aspect behind ROFAR, they still emit microwave radiation (as opposed some people believing it's LIDAR), as Rostec's Director-General Alexander Mikheyev has stated. He also stated that photonic (computing) could be just as easily used to enhance sonar, which works on diametrical different principles of physics compared to radar.

    As far as I understand, the computing is not optical, but just the RF signal conversion.
    Incorrect, not only is it computing it (photonics) even has it's very own lithographic process to create photonic chips independently developed and not related to microelectronics. The photonic lithographic replaces generally expensive materials like gold and rare materials like molybdenum with cheap and ubiquitous materials already widely used in electronics, like copper:

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t3439p300-russian-electronics-semiconductor-and-processors#152862

    Russian scientists announced a revolution in the creation of processors with thousands of cores  

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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik on Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:06 am

    I hate to sound high but they use magic crystals for better precision.

    Russian Radar systems - Page 22 Photon12


    Even Australia is using magic crystals for OTH radars if their JORN OTH spatial resolution is a POS with 7.5km that can be resolved a 1000 fold. Sadly no information on the konteyner radar.

    https://www.adelaide.edu.au/ipas/our-research/defence-security/cryogenic-sapphire-oscillator-the-sapphire-clock#defence-applications

    The Cryogenic Sapphire Oscillator has a 5 cm cylinder-shaped sapphire crystal that is cooled to about -267 °C, or about 5 or 6 degrees above absolute zero. At this temperature, the microwave energy lost in the sapphire crystal is the lowest of any substance on Earth. Microwave radiation is injected into the sapphire crystal and propagates around the circumference of the crystal (just inside the surface). The way the microwave radiation moves around the crystal is called a “Whispering Gallery”. Lord Rayleigh first discovered this concept in 1878 when he could hear someone whispering far away on the other side of the church dome at St Paul’s Cathedral.

    There is one particular frequency that will excite the natural resonance of the sapphire crystal – this corresponds to the signal that reinforces itself after one round trip around the crystal surface. A good analogy might be to imagine hitting a bell and using its regular oscillations to count time.  The losses in sapphire are so low that if it were a conventional bell then it would keep ringing for millions of years. However, in the sapphire crystal the resonant frequency is so high—10 billion cycles per second—that the electromagnetic signal rings only for a hundred milliseconds."


    Even the photonic radar talks about microwave radiation going into its crystal but the thing is, I know it says photonic crystal but is that photonic crystal Russia has made of sapphire? Now I see why KRET is dead set on better cryogenic cooling for electronics which I am sure you remember seeing.

    https://www.kret.com/media/news/kret-provel-kruglyy-stol-posvyashchennyy-kontseptsii-razvitiya-tekhnologiy-krioelektroniki/

    "Within the framework of the meeting, industry experts reviewed the report "On the concept of development of cryoelectronics technologies", discussed the conditions for improving electric propulsion systems for air and sea transport, the state and prospects for the development of the production of electronic component base and converter technology with cryogenic cooling.

    Representatives of enterprises - end users of the products being developed took part in the meeting. They stressed their readiness to take part in the testing of experimental samples.

    Nikolay Kolesov, General Director of KRET JSC, Chairman of the Novgorod and Mariysk branches of the Union of Mechanical Engineers of Russia, emphasized the importance of the work of industry expert platforms that allow specialized experts to exchange experience, substantively consider key issues of their work, and jointly develop an optimal development strategy."
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS on Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:33 am

    There are many strategies you can think about to improve resolution on an OTH radar. One of the most elementary is to use known references in the topography. Move your beam until you isolate the target plus a known accident left, right, forward and backward, and you will find your target with much better accuracy. OTH looks against ground, not against empty sky, so there are patterns for it to recognise unlike with other radar types. Of course utra-precise oscillators will always be of great help to discern phase/frequency shifting in the signals and will detect smaller signals or smaller doppler effects.
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    Post  Arrow on Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:02 am

    The OTH container radar is the most modern radar of this type in the world. I wonder what its accuracy is but definitely better than some JORN etc.
    marcellogo
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    Post  marcellogo on Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:59 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    LMFS wrote:We don't know how the array is made or if there are actually several arrays. Photonics is not the only way, in fact a ROAR would have way bigger bandwidth.
    Photonics is the computer processing aspect behind ROFAR, they still emit microwave radiation (as opposed some people believing it's LIDAR), as Rostec's Director-General Alexander Mikheyev has stated. He also stated that photonic (computing) could be just as easily used to enhance sonar, which works on diametrical different principles of physics compared to radar.

    A photonic radar use a light source instead of a radio one and convert it into microwaves.
    Such waves work normally but unlike the others are not magnetically charged and that give such apparatus enormous advantages , above all against ECM.
    So yes, there is an hardware change involved.

    Still even having a multi band-antenna, fully using SDR tech in both receiver than emitter, in a still conventional radar would be a great leap forward along such a road.
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    Post  thegopnik on Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:38 am

    @lmfs

    from a while back don't know if this can convince you that the Su-57 is 360 active detection. Igor Nasenkov was the one interviewed.

    https://vpk.name/news/144206_kret_razrabotan_kompleks_dlya_borby_s_vozdushno-kosmicheskimi_ugrozami.html

    "For example, the Himalayas EW complex uses the energy resource of the radar to provide protection at certain points of space. All this is done to ensure that the aircraft has the ability to circular view of space in passive and active modes, had the opportunity to provide 100% protection also round, so that communication and control systems, electronic combat cover the aircraft from all radii. This is how the capabilities of various electronic systems are complexed, which makes the aircraft as secure and invulnerable as possible. Communication systems can also be used in protected modes - to form the transmission of information not in a circular, but in the direction of only those points where it needs to reset a particular flight information, get a job or information of other importance. This is also done to ensure the maximum capabilities of the aircraft in the use of weapons, to maximize the capabilities of electronic protection. We can say that in the FA PAC everything works in the general contour of the digital control system of the aircraft and provides maximum comfort and maximum controllability for pilots."

    unless they are talking about active mode as in jamming in all directions or using all the modules of the aircraft?

    old info about EW but this was stated by Mikheev. https://aviation21.ru/kret-radiofotonnye-radary-budut-sozdany-do-2018-goda/

    "Modern EW systems provide a signal to the radio input of the device usually in the range of 70-80 decibels relative to its threshold sensitivity. Therefore, they can suppress, "close" the device, acting in the range, for example, 40 decibels. However, ROFAR devices can operate in a variety of ranges, such as 200 decibels. And even when 100 decibels are working on it, the radiophoton radar will not feel any difference. Therefore, it cannot be suppressed by traditional methods of electronic suppression," Mikheev said.

    He noted that the photon crystal is able to work at such loads when other crystals simply evaporate."


    http://xn----ctbsbazhbctieai.ru-an.info/%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8/%D0%B2-%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B8-%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BD-%D1%84%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9-%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%80-%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9-%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%8C-%D0%BB%D1%8E%D0%B1%D1%83%D1%8E-%D1%86%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C/

    copy URL gives me the weird shit above.

    Alexey Leonkov, a military expert of the magazine "Arsenal of the Fatherland" told about the revolutionary significance of the development in an interview with the Moscow Komsomolets.

    "According to the analyst, the transition from electrons to photons will lead to the creation of a new generation of radars that will be able to process information using the electromagnetic waves of the microwave range. The speed of transmission of information will increase to hundreds of terabits per second, that is, the reflected signal will be processed instantly at all frequencies. Thus, it will be possible to increase the probability of identification of the target to 100%, radars will be able to detect any target. Alexey Leonkov believes it is important that the stations themselves will become smaller, but at the same time it will be much more effective, it will be more difficult for them to put interference. The new radiophoton radars will be 2-4 times smaller than Daryal. In addition, the thermal radiation will also decrease."

    https://vpk.name/news/439890_v_rossii_zaversheny_ispytaniya_fotonnogo_radara_dlya_poiska_stels-celei.html

    He also stressed that the new technology will allow to integrate the transmitter into the hull of the ship, aircraft or satellite, as well as increase the radar review sector. It is also worth saying that ROFAR is based on the original domestic component base.

    Recall that the first reports about the development of a fundamentally new radar station based on radiophoton technologies appeared in 2018.

    "The radar screen will not appear a mark of the target, but its image, which is unattainable by classical radar. That is, the operator instead of the usual glowing point will see that it is really flying - a plane, a rocket, a flock of birds or a meteorite, it is worth repeating, even thousands of kilometers from the radar, "- previously reported "RG."






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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik on Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:07 am

    https://www.cisco.com/c/dam/m/en_us/solutions/service-provider/vni-forecast-highlights/pdf/United_Kingdom_2020_Forecast_Highlights.pdf

    "In the United Kingdom, average IP traffic will reach 23 Tbps in 2020, and busy hour traffic will reach 132 Tbps."

    https://interestingengineering.com/fighter-tempests-new-radar-can-collect-a-citys-worth-of-data-per-second

    "Tempest's radar technology will reportedly provide over 10,000 times more data than current systems. ‘Multi-Function Radio Frequency System’ will deliver a huge amount of data that equals to internet traffic of Edinburgh in a second, comparingly speaking."

    So can we declare ROFAR a 7th/8th gen radar if the 100 terabits per second can handle more than 4 times the average internet traffic of the UK and be somewhat close to reaching the busy hour of the UKs internet traffic per second?


    Last edited by thegopnik on Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:47 am; edited 1 time in total
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:26 am

    https://www.spiedigitallibrary.org/conference-proceedings-of-spie/11442/114420L/The-photonic-radar--the-situation-today-and-the-prospects/10.1117/12.2565721.full?SSO=1

    Sorry if posted already. An overview of the concepts in photonic radars. It seems they focus on super high frequency EM detection.
    The existing analogue circuitry of radars cannot handle very high frequencies. So a new approach that circumvents physical limitations
    of analogue implementations is followed. A type of photonics thus becomes relevant. The noise associated with multiple conversions
    of the scanning and detection signals into electrical signals is minimized or eliminated. A main benefit of moving out of electron space
    into photon space is that one can have ultra-wide band detection. The classical analogue approach automatically limits frequency
    range.

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:50 am

    kvs wrote:https://www.spiedigitallibrary.org/conference-proceedings-of-spie/11442/114420L/The-photonic-radar--the-situation-today-and-the-prospects/10.1117/12.2565721.full?SSO=1

    Sorry if posted already.   An overview of the concepts in photonic radars.  It seems they focus on super high frequency EM detection.
    The existing analogue circuitry of radars cannot handle very high frequencies.   So a new approach that circumvents physical limitations
    of analogue implementations is followed.   A type of photonics thus becomes relevant.   The noise associated with multiple conversions
    of the scanning and detection signals into electrical signals is minimized or eliminated.   A main benefit of moving out of electron space
    into photon space is that one can have ultra-wide band detection.   The classical analogue approach automatically limits frequency
    range.


    Interesting from the link I found a Western published article the confirms the idea that photonics beyond just radar could be used to also enhance sonar and ultrasound, coinciding what I previously reported.

    https://www.spiedigitallibrary.org/conference-proceedings-of-spie/2754/0000/Photonic-processor-for-in-phase-and-quadrature-array-signal-processing/10.1117/12.243145.short?SSO=1

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    Post  LMFS on Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:29 am

    thegopnik wrote:@lmfs

    from a while back don't know if this can convince you that the Su-57 is 360 active detection. Igor Nasenkov was the one interviewed.

    https://vpk.name/news/144206_kret_razrabotan_kompleks_dlya_borby_s_vozdushno-kosmicheskimi_ugrozami.html

    Wow great find, this seems rather conclusive. Some more from the same link:

    - Please tell us what capabilities the PAK FA fifth-generation aircraft acquires thanks to the latest radio-electronic systems of KRET?

    - KRET has already talked about the features of the Himalayas electronic warfare system and the strapdown inertial navigation system (SINS) installed on the PAK FA. Now we want to draw your attention to a fundamentally new radar that was developed for the PAK FA. This radar has several ranges of operation and will work not only in the front hemisphere - it will also have a number of possibilities for all-round visibility so that the pilot has complete information about the radar situation, so that, without taking maneuvering actions, he can find out what is happening to the left. on the right, behind in automatic mode with projection on the helmet and on the interactive glass of the cockpit.

    According to its purpose, the PAK FA aircraft does not just belong to the fifth generation aircraft - it embodies fundamentally new ideas. That is, it is already a 100% digital aircraft, which not only provides the pilot with information upon request, but also provides full information support to the pilot - for this the aircraft is equipped with "smart casing". By "smart skin" we mean that many aircraft surfaces are versatile antenna systems that, when applied, ensure a comprehensive use of the aircraft's entire resource. First of all, we are talking about the fact that the complex of the radar station can perform the functions of passive reconnaissance means, active radar means, and specialized electronic warfare means.


    And he confirms also the communications are directional, which is also a very important aspect that was frequently criticised by all those guys that are so fast to dismiss Russian designs even before having data. As usually, they were proven to be full of shit, they seem to think Russians do not have brains or something?  dunno

    Regarding ROFAR, I was going to say basically the same vks has said too, these are ultra-wide band systems that go beyond the bandwidth and noise limitations of electronic circuitry (amplifiers, filters etc. all compromise the signal integrity) and therefore enable to process and recognise a huge amount of information from the target, making it very difficult to avoid detection and identification.

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Interesting from the link I found a Western published article the confirms the idea that photonics beyond just radar could be used to also enhance sonar and ultrasound, coinciding what I previously reported.

    The link by kvs is very good to see the scope of optical technology in ROFAR: the creation and handling of the RF signal. All those Rx paths end up in a photodiode/ADC and from there normal processing. There are other optical technologies of course with other applications.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:09 am

    "Tempest's radar technology will reportedly provide over 10,000 times more data than current systems. ‘Multi-Function Radio Frequency System’ will deliver a huge amount of data that equals to internet traffic of Edinburgh in a second, comparingly speaking."

    So how is a British pilot supposed to cope seeing all that porn....

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    Post  LMFS on Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:13 am

    Yakhroma radar station will be built in Chukotka by 2030

    According to a TASS source, it will work in automatic mode, without the constant presence of people at the facility.

    MOSCOW, January 12. / TASS /. The newest radar station (radar) "Yakhroma", which will be included in the missile attack warning system (SPRN), will be built by 2030 in the Chukchi Sea region. A source in the military-industrial complex told TASS about it.

    "By 2030, it is planned to build the Yakhroma radar station in the Chukchi Sea region. The station will operate fully automatically, without the constant presence of people at the facility," he said.

    At the end of December 2020, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, during the final collegium of the military department, announced that in 2021 the Ministry of Defense is to begin work on the construction of the Yakhroma radar in Sevastopol.

    A source in the military-industrial complex then told TASS that the Yakhroma radar station has no analogues. The station will operate in four bands: meter, centimeter, decimeter and millimeter, the station will have a view of 270 degrees.

    To date, the Russian early warning system consists of two echelons: a space one, which currently includes four Tundra satellites, and a ground one, consisting of a network of Voronezh-type stations, covering all missile-hazardous directions with its radar field. The main purpose of the system is to detect and escort ballistic missiles fired at the territory of the Russian Federation or its allies as soon as possible.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/10438637

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    Post  thegopnik on Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:58 am

    Also just for fun but I think the Yakhroma radar and any photonic radar would be absolutely amazing to be used against nuclear weapons because of this and it would be highly recommended for these radars to be used as anti-ballistic missile shields

    https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a044561.pdf

    "The communication system is then said to have been "blacked out." Among other factors, blackout will depend on the frequencies of radio waves, which nominally range from 3 megahertz to 30 gigahertz for Army communications, Figure 1. Radio noise will be radiated from the very hot fireball."

    effects for higher frequencies dissipates quicker depending where the EMP occurred. This is important because if a nuclear explosion occured any ABM defenses be it ground or satellite radars will be blind the moment another nuclear weapon uses the area to mask itself.
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    Post  JohninMK on Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:48 pm

    spriters
    @neccamc1
    ·
    22h
    Russia will place the whole of Europe and parts of America in the "strike zone" of the electronic warfare system of Murmansk to launch intercept attacks and jam enemy signals up to 5,000 km and discover and support short-wave wireless communications.




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