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    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:44 am


    Armenians See Russia As 'Savior' Not 'Scapegoat' In Nagorno-Karabakh War

    https://www.rferl.org/a/armenians-see-russia-as-savior-not-scapegoat-in-nagorno-karabakh-war/30966988.html

    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK on Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:13 pm

    medo wrote:https://vpk.name/news/465491_nam_ne_strashen_bairaktar.html

    Interesting Russian analysis.

    Enjoyed that but surely this is the wrong thread for it?
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:39 pm

    Russian peacekeepers control the process of handover of the Kalbajar District to the Azerbaijani side which started at 00:00 today, Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman Igor Konashenkov told journalists on Wednesday.

    https://tass.com/world/1227883
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS on Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:59 pm

    Ex-Prime Minister of Armenia: 80 percent of our army is not - this is a defeat

    Today the former Prime Minister of the Republic of Armenia (in office from 1993 to 1996) Hrant Bagratyan made a statement regarding the situation that is developing in Armenia itself, Nagorno-Karabakh, as well as around the stopped conflict in general. This statement caused a wide public discussion in Armenia itself and abroad.


    In the words of Hrant Bagratyan, expressed at a meeting with journalists, “we must admit not just complete defeat, but defeat”.

    Ex-Prime Minister of Armenia, leader of the Azatutyun party:

    80 percent of our army is gone. The army is defeated. This is no secret. Azerbaijanis have calculated how much tanks, guns, and other equipment remained on their territories.

    Bagratyan noted several reasons for this result. In his opinion, the main reason is political:

    Armenia did not recognize the independence of the Republic of Artsakh. And this, as we understood, was a big mistake. As a deputy, I raised this issue at least twice. Two hours after the start of the war on September 27, I proposed recognizing Artsakh. But nobody did that. But several countries would recognize Artsakh if ​​we did it. It's just that Nikol (Pashinyan) didn't have the courage to recognize independence. I miss her even now

    According to Hrant Bagratyan, the escalation of anti-Russian sentiments was also a mistake. He noted that during the current globalization, Armenia should be together with Russia:

    We need to be with the Russians, otherwise we will be with the Turks ...

    Bagratyan also noted that Armenia "offended Iran" with its pro-Western sentiments, which cut off the supply of goods through its territory during the conflict. The ex-prime minister of Armenia called the deterioration of relations with Tbilisi and "slapping China in the face" other strategic mistakes.

    Bagratyan said that many people supported Armenia in words, but there was no military assistance:

    For example, you can wear socks in the color of our tricolor with Justin Trudeau (Prime Minister of Canada), but only when the war comes, there will still be no cartridges from him. And from Merkel will not. And from Britain. She generally thwarted the discussion of the conflict in the UN Security Council.

    In his speech, Bagratyan stated that “there are rumors about the current president of Armenia that he is associated with the British MI6”.

    https://en.topwar.ru/177468-jeks-premer-armenii-80-procentov-nashej-armii-net-jeto-razgrom.html

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman on Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:55 pm

    This new geopolitics Youtube channel did a good job covering Pashinyan and all of his strategic mistakes. Pretty much everything he did from India to China to Iran to Russia, was against the interest of Armenia.

    At 5:54, it explains how Aremenia voted against Russia for rejoining the Council of Europe. And Pashinyans explanation was that his representative mistakenly pressed the wrong button.  No By the end of the video, I cant help but think Pashinyan is a CIA agent

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    Post  par far on Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:07 pm

    "Turkey Set Up Offices In Afrin, For Turkmen Families To Register For Settling In Nagorno-Karabakh"


    https://southfront.org/turkey-set-up-offices-in-afrin-for-turkmen-families-to-register-for-settling-in-nagorno-karabakh/

    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:11 pm

    Yeap, terrorists are moving in. And if they attempt anything, Azerbaijan can't cry

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:35 pm

    LMFS wrote:...Armenia did not recognize the independence of the Republic of Artsakh. And this, as we understood, was a big mistake. As a deputy, I raised this issue at least twice. Two hours after the start of the war on September 27, I proposed recognizing Artsakh. But nobody did that. But several countries would recognize Artsakh if ​​we did it. It's just that Nikol (Pashinyan) didn't have the courage to recognize independence....

    He didn't have courage to break EU taboos because EU always comes first

    But of course he expected Russia to do it (not out of necessity for Armenia but to get Russia stuck in the mud so he could later go back to barking on EU behalf

    This whole thing a set up by EU and carried out by Pashinian as a way to screw with Russia on the cheap but Russia didn't take the bait



    LMFS wrote:...We need to be with the Russians, otherwise we will be with the Turks....

    At least someone get is



    LMFS wrote:...Bagratyan also noted that Armenia "offended Iran" with its pro-Western sentiments, which cut off the supply of goods through its territory during the conflict. The ex-prime minister of Armenia called the deterioration of relations with Tbilisi and "slapping China in the face" other strategic mistakes.

    Look at Iranians playing hardball Cool

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS on Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:56 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:He didn't have courage to break EU taboos because EU always comes first

    But of course he expected Russia to do it (not out of necessity for Armenia but to get Russia stuck in the mud so he could later go back to barking on EU behalf

    This whole thing a set up by EU and carried out by Pashinian as a way to screw with Russia on the cheap but Russia didn't take the bait

    He cannot explicitly say Pashinian is a dirty traitor that needs to be hanged from a tree, but what he is implying is exactly that...

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    par far

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    Post  par far on Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:08 pm

    "Azerbaijanis Wear Russian Uniform To Murder Armenians ?"

    https://southfront.org/azerbaijanis-wear-russian-uniform-to-murder-armenians/
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:33 pm

    My smartphone auto opens up spam ad when I click that link

    Obvious sign of South front gone to shit
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    par far

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    Post  par far on Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:44 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:My smartphone auto opens up spam ad when I click that link

    Obvious sign of South front gone to shit


    I tried on the computer and my smart phone and it works fine Mike, maybe try it again.
    franco
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    Post  franco on Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:07 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:My smartphone auto opens up spam ad when I click that link

    Obvious sign of South front gone to shit

    Your corporate masters (aka service provider) don't want you reading that shitte Mike Smile

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:08 pm

    par far wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:My smartphone auto opens up spam ad when I click that link

    Obvious sign of South front gone to shit


    I tried on the computer and my smart phone and it works fine Mike, maybe try it again.

    Did.

    Using Yandex browser on phone so maybe issue. Dunno.
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:10 pm

    par far wrote:"Azerbaijanis Wear Russian Uniform To Murder Armenians ?"

    https://southfront.org/azerbaijanis-wear-russian-uniform-to-murder-armenians/

    According to the article linked:

    Two versions are possible.

    According to the first version, some Azerbaijanis, rather civilians, decided to take advantage of the situation in the region to commit ‘personal vendetta’. it could be those who lost their relatives, homes and property during the first Nogorno-Karabakh war of 1992-1994.

    According to the second version, such a publication is an informative campaign in favor of the Armenian side, which is intended to demonstrate to Russia that Azerbaijanis have the opportunity to commit sabotage and war crimes by dressing up in Russian uniforms. The purpose of this information campaign is most likely to destabilize the situation in the region.

    So it is still possible that somebody in Armenia with links to the english press or intelligence is still trying to lure Russians in making mistakes and /or ruining the deal.

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman on Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:14 pm

    par far wrote:"Turkey Set Up Offices In Afrin, For Turkmen Families To Register For Settling In Nagorno-Karabakh"


    https://southfront.org/turkey-set-up-offices-in-afrin-for-turkmen-families-to-register-for-settling-in-nagorno-karabakh/


    I am a bit hesitant about this story until some more evidence comes out. Its all hearsay from unnamed sources. I don't think Aliyev is reckless and stupid enough for this dirty business. He doesn't want there to be partisan/ethnic fighting in the area long term. For Aliyev , it was just about getting the territories back. Now his main goal is to dial down the tension with Armenians.

    Aliyev isn't a stupid guy. He goes to all of the conferences and events that Russia invites him to (unlike Pashinyan) This would be totally unacceptable to Putin. Russia is not going to sit there holding the peace so that camps of terrorists can move in.

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:50 am

    Slimy Armphibians strike again:
    The press secretary of the Armenian Defense Ministry Shushan Stepanyan decided to quote Garegin Nzhdeh on her Facebook page. This is, to put it mildly, ambiguous historical personality even for Armenia itself. Some call him a fighter for Armenian identity and independence, while others point out that during the Second World War, Ndje actively collaborated with the Nazis. In the archives declassified by the CIA, a document was discovered in which Ndzhe and his associates turned to Rosenberg (Hitler's minister of the eastern occupied territories) with a request to create a German colony in Transcaucasia. Ndje also recruited citizens in the interests of the Third Reich, including for conducting subversive activities in the rear of the Red Army. Now Mrs. Stepanyan decided to quote the words of Ndzhe, in which she said that "victory will come tomorrow."

    https://en.topwar.ru/177438-armjanskie-voennye-vzorvali-neskolko-svoih-kazarm-pokidaja-kelbadzharskij-rajon.html

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:12 am


    Interesting Russian analysis.

    It does not mention jamming and other EW solutions to drones either, but the one mistake would be that the new TOR system has 16 missiles, not 8.

    The new longer ranged higher altitude Pine system is interesting... being laser beam riding they are cheap and easy to produce and use, while being rather tough to jam...

    The sort of system any force suffering from enemy drone attacks would be well worth looking at buying from Russia as soon as they possibly can.

    The EO systems will not be cheap, but the missiles themselves are cheap so buying a whole lot of new systems will be a little expensive, but actually using them in combat against a large enemy force that might include drones but also normal aircraft would be rather cost effective... with no expensive IR terminal sensor that is destroyed with each launch like Verba or MANPADS or Spyder these missiles should be able to be bought in large numbers and deployed widely.

    Some western systems like Spyder look sophisticated and capable, and against an enemy with 50 fighters and fixed wing aircraft and perhaps 40 helicopters (troop transport and attack), then it is an efficient way of protecting yourself. However when the enemy has access to 10,000 drones it would just be too expensive to consider... Pine is cheap to actually use in volume because the missiles are affordable.

    Also it mentioned there are anti armour (ie anti tank) warheads available for Pine which is also interesting...


    Last edited by GarryB on Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:10 am; edited 1 time in total
    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:35 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Slimy Armphibians strike again:
    The press secretary of the Armenian Defense Ministry Shushan Stepanyan decided to quote Garegin Nzhdeh on her Facebook page. This is, to put it mildly, ambiguous historical personality even for Armenia itself. Some call him a fighter for Armenian identity and independence, while others point out that during the Second World War, Ndje actively collaborated with the Nazis. In the archives declassified by the CIA, a document was discovered in which Ndzhe and his associates turned to Rosenberg (Hitler's minister of the eastern occupied territories) with a request to create a German colony in Transcaucasia. Ndje also recruited citizens in the interests of the Third Reich, including for conducting subversive activities in the rear of the Red Army. Now Mrs. Stepanyan decided to quote the words of Ndzhe, in which she said that "victory will come tomorrow."

    https://en.topwar.ru/177438-armjanskie-voennye-vzorvali-neskolko-svoih-kazarm-pokidaja-kelbadzharskij-rajon.html
    This is retardation of the highest order...
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    Post  par far on Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:57 pm

    "UPSET AZERBAIJANI TROOPS TRY TO PROVOKE RUSSIAN PEACEKEEPERS IN DADIVANK"


    https://southfront.org/upset-azerbaijani-troops-try-to-provoke-russian-peacekeepers-in-dadivank/
    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:54 pm

    par far wrote:"UPSET AZERBAIJANI TROOPS TRY TO PROVOKE RUSSIAN PEACEKEEPERS IN DADIVANK"


    https://southfront.org/upset-azerbaijani-troops-try-to-provoke-russian-peacekeepers-in-dadivank/

    I'm dying to hear the following Erdoapeasement bullshit from the resident ultra-bogatyrs.

    What's good is that Russian MC's are not impressed, there's a "BRB with the Kalib's" aura with Mishka polkovnik/
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:10 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    par far wrote:"UPSET AZERBAIJANI TROOPS TRY TO PROVOKE RUSSIAN PEACEKEEPERS IN DADIVANK"


    https://southfront.org/upset-azerbaijani-troops-try-to-provoke-russian-peacekeepers-in-dadivank/

    I'm dying to hear the following Erdoapeasement bullshit from the resident ultra-bogatyrs.

    What's good is that Russian MC's are not impressed, there's a "BRB with the Kalib's" aura with Mishka polkovnik/
    Wink
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    par far

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    Post  par far on Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:48 am

    "Russian Service Member Found Dead In Armenia’s Gyumri"

    RIP.

    Hopefully they find out what happened.

    https://southfront.org/russian-service-member-found-dead-in-armenias-gyumri/

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman on Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:05 am

    par far wrote:"Russian Service Member Found Dead In Armenia’s Gyumri"

    RIP.

    Hopefully they find out what happened.

    https://southfront.org/russian-service-member-found-dead-in-armenias-gyumri/

    The 102nd Military Base in Gyumri is the largest Russian military installation in Armenia. From 3,000 to 5,000 Russian service members, including border guards, are deployed in the country. About 2,000 additional troops will be carrying out the peacekeeping mission in Nagorno-Karabakh.

    So it wasn't a soldier in the peace keeping effort. But the western media will spare that detail. And then the Russia pseudo experts will say "muh shades of Afghanistan"

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:49 am

    Even some of the comments in the article doesn't get it. They think Armenia itself is a warzone.

    Man, the lack of reading comprehension skills in the west is just absolutely pathetic

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