Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+47
George1
littlerabbit
PapaDragon
Backman
kvs
The Ottoman
Penguin
Scorpius
Pacense
Nemo
Arrow
Odin of Ossetia
Vann7
flamming_python
spotter
zepia
Azi
zorobabel
Tsavo Lion
thegopnik
Hole
slasher
nero
chinggis
jhelb
par far
GarryB
Mindstorm
LMFS
medo
Stealthflanker
lyle6
Rodion_Romanovic
Maximmmm
Yugo90
miketheterrible
Hannibal Barca
AbdulhamidtheSecond
JohninMK
franco
ahmedfire
Walther von Oldenburg
nomadski
Fred333
Tai Hai Chen
SeigSoloyvov
Regular
51 posters

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    franco
    franco


    Posts : 5193
    Points : 5225
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  franco Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:16 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    Karabah is rightful Azeri territory and everyone on this planet agrees, Armenians first and foremost
    No, Armenians claimed NK back in 1988, & they + the diaspora certainly don't consider it as Azeri now....

    Wrong

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Artsakh#Recognition_process

    No UN member states have recognised Artsakh...

    No UN members includes Armenia

    According to Armenia itself it's Azeri territory, case closed


    Disagree, they might have not claimed the territory or recognized it officially BUT they diffidently feel that it is Armenian or wouldn't be prepared to fight and die for it.
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion


    Posts : 5683
    Points : 5667
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:32 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:No UN members includes Armenia- FYI, she's a member: UN Member States

    According to Armenia itself it's Azeri territory, case closed- pl. stop repeating nonsense- it was formerly included in Azerbaijan as the USSR was being formed; after Baku declared independence it had no right to claim it as it had been populated by mostly ethnic Armenians for millennia, even under the Persians who moved other Armenians elsewhere, & whom Russians returned later. 
    It's the same with Crimea: Kiev's claim to it is as flimsy. 
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 12331
    Points : 12391
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  PapaDragon Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:50 pm

    franco wrote:...Disagree, they might have not claimed the territory or recognized it officially BUT they diffidently feel that it is Armenian or wouldn't be prepared to fight and die for it.  

    They don't feel differently enough to sigh a piece of paper but they expect Russia to go to war over it?

    Like I said, they want to have their cake and eat it too

    They want Russia to do the heavy lifting for them but are not prepared to burn the bridges with Brussels by recognizing NK independence

    Why should Russia agree to that? Nobody ever asked Russia to do more while offering less in return
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion


    Posts : 5683
    Points : 5667
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:06 pm

    They don't feel differently enough to sigh a piece of paper but they expect Russia to go to war over it?
    no signing it isn't = accepting NK as de-jure belonging to Baku. According to Aliev, Pashinyan declared the region as Armenian, causing breakdown in negotiations.
    Russia may need to go to war to defend her interests vs. Turkey there & in Syria anyway.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:18 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add links)
    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 10951
    Points : 11072
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  JohninMK Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:38 pm

    Have there been any reports of the Syrian mercenaries doing what they like to do best, looting, pillaging and rape of Christians? Or are they on a short leash?
    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 9568
    Points : 9554
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  Isos Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:47 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Have there been any reports of the Syrian mercenaries doing what they like to do best, looting, pillaging and rape of Christians? Or are they on a short leash?

    The front line is empty of civilians and they don't go over it. The villages they capture are quite empty too.

    Those mercennaries don't know the terrain and are easy targets for Armenians.

    Reports also that airbus will have to stop providing spare parts for turkish A-400M because of new sanctions for the transport of syrians in NK.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 33554
    Points : 34068
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  GarryB Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:33 am

    That is what it is. Shitty AD setup of NK has left it open to easy pickings by drones. Radar systems turned off or systems not operational, mixed with just being clustered and out in the open.

    Well to be fair NK is hardly a super power... how would Canada fare against an enemy that used drones in large numbers... how are you off for MANPADS numbers and radars able to track tiny RCS targets... how is your training in dealing with drones?

    Most countries would be vulnerable... even first line powers...

    Azerbaijan was very much prepared. NK was not. And with lack of Armenia support, looks like not much else.

    They have attack drones, but is there any evidence they could stop a large attack from Armenia in kind with armed drones?

    I doubt it.

    Armenians are being cynical to Armenians in NK then, and by some orders of magnitude more than Russians. It is ludicrous to suggest that Russia should fight their illegal wars on their behalf, wasting their men, wealth and international fair-play stance, so that Armenians keep a good opinion of them. They can go get fucked if they don't like Russians, honestly.

    The CSTO agreement does not require Russia to help NK... Armenia is the country signed up to that agreement... not NK.

    Russia can let Armenians get slaughtered and pretend it has its hands tied by legal concerns, but it clearly has issues with that approach given what it just did in Syria.

    Assad asked for help. Armenia is not asking for help at the moment... they are trying to determine the situation and what options they have... I am sure the west is making all sorts of promises and assurances in private... but what are they worth... it seems that like the Ukraine, Armenia needs to find out the limits of the power of the west... they are very good with promises... but as some countries find they lack in many areas too... like giving a fuck.

    If Russia wants to drop more depth because of its lack of willpower, the situation will get worse before getting any better. Turkey would have scored the best advance by actually not even attacking Armenia.

    The decision is not for Russia to make. Armenia is involved and right now they are looking west it seems... a bit like Gaddafi and Assad did and we know how that turned out, but let them make their own mistakes... the current situation is basically might makes right so even if the Azeris take all of NK and force all Armenian civilians out.... in ten years time Armenia can prepare and work and develop and just take it all back again... if an Azeri invasion is accepted now then a future Armenian invasion should be acceptable too.

    They have no reason to escalate

    Armenia clearly doesn't see this situation as too serious so why should Russia barge in uninvited?

    X2.

    If the Armenians are not shouting for help from Russia then it would be a bit rude of Russia to barge in and take over things...

    lyle6 likes this post

    nomadski
    nomadski


    Posts : 1895
    Points : 1905
    Join date : 2017-01-02

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  nomadski Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:00 am

    The situation in the caucases, can not be described as merely internal affairs. The incompetence and servitude to hostile external powers, namely Turkey and Usrael and America, who follow a divisive and sectarian agenda in the region, affects the welfare of millions of people in the region. I don't think, as much as I would like, that we can leave this situation in the hands of those serving own or foreign interests.

    In Syria, I was clearly in favour of Turkey, advancing against Kurd SDF  separatists. Not because the Kurds are devils and Turks angels. Simply because, ethnic separatism would spread and affect all regional countries. Turkey included. Great instability and war.

    So here, the wishes or demands of local groups, even if popular or " Democratic", within a national framework. Can not be tolerated on a regional or international level. If they threaten security and welfare.

    Here then in the caucases, Turkish separatism, Zionist intervention, can not be left to be decided by weak leadership, in these mini- states. It becomes our affair. Our business. We decide who should be in charge. So no, we can not leave Armenia or Azer, to become playground for NAZTO. We intervene.
    KoTeMoRe
    KoTeMoRe


    Posts : 4212
    Points : 4227
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  KoTeMoRe Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:09 am

    Turkey has deployed Kargut in AZ as well.

    Please keep talking about this being an ARM issue and whatnot.
    The whole situation is being a spearheaded by Turkey including targeted assasinations now.

    The cynicism is going to be sweet, when you'll use NK situation against Turkey in the future regarding ethnic cleansing.



    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion


    Posts : 5683
    Points : 5667
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:11 pm

    Karabakh Battle Rages, Pompeo Urges Diplomacy
     
     2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdgxhtav2e25a8.cloudfront.net%2Fblkbullet1.gif&t=1603905007&ymreqid=204399c7-9282-653d-2f3c-44009101bd00&sig=TP1gW0BHhv6zhAzerbaijan Says Four Civilians Killed in Armenia Missile Strike
    https://lenta.ru/news/2020/10/28/f16/   https://lenta.ru/news/2020/10/28/tysyachi/

    https://iz.ru/1079122/andrei-ontikov/bakh-za-karabakh-rossiia-vozobnovila-udary-po-boevikam-v-siriiskom-idlibe

    https://regnum.ru/news/polit/3101627.html

    In Armenia, War Refugees Sleep Rough in the Diamonds
    nomadski
    nomadski


    Posts : 1895
    Points : 1905
    Join date : 2017-01-02

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  nomadski Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:23 pm

    The article written by Armenian academic. Refers to treaties and referendum and EU recognitions of post soviet borders. All these concepts are invalidated by war. That is, a requirement for them to be true, as statements. Depends on the premise of there being peace.Right now, the only relevant facts, are those on the ground. Written in bullets and blood.
    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 9568
    Points : 9554
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  Isos Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:12 pm

    https://mobile.twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1320490120819187712

    Nice thread on turkish drones and their stand off attacks on armenian AD.

    Their drone use a lot GPS. Armenia can counter tgem by jamming GPS in the area totally. Then those drones will need constant control from operator and use laser guidance for their MAM munitiins which reduces their range making them go inside AD engagement zone.

    Now they use GPS and can launch MAM L from 14km away. And the drone is just following a preplaned path with GPS instead of radio control.
    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 12987
    Points : 13134
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Kanada

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  kvs Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:27 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Turkey has deployed Kargut in AZ as well.

    Please keep talking about this being an ARM issue and whatnot.
    The whole situation is being a spearheaded by Turkey including targeted assasinations now.

    The cynicism is going to be sweet, when you'll use NK situation against Turkey in the future regarding ethnic cleansing.




    The freedom to act based on localized moral indignation for countries is very limited unless they are imperial outfits
    like the US and its EU quislings. Russia is not a hyperpower able to dictate to the world what it wants. So it has
    to play footsie with Turkey and not just slap it down.

    At the end of the day it was Armenia itself that decided to throw Russia under the bus and attempt to become yet
    another urchin in NATzO. Reality bites.

    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 12987
    Points : 13134
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Kanada

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  kvs Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:36 pm

    nomadski wrote:The article written by Armenian academic. Refers to treaties and referendum and EU recognitions of post soviet borders. All these concepts are invalidated by war. That is, a requirement for them to be true, as statements. Depends on the premise of there being peace.Right now, the only relevant facts, are those on the ground. Written in bullets and blood.

    It is time to stop treating "recognitions" by countries as having any legal worth. These are policy decisions only. That the US
    and its minions recognized Crimea as part of Ukraine in 1991 means precisely f*ck all. Some wave of the hand cannot delete
    history and local rights. The same goes for NK. It should never have been "recognized" as part of Azerbaijan no matter what
    Lenin and Trotsky did. Bolshie borders mean nothing if they ignore reality. Such borders have been the source of blood shed
    on a vast scale around the world. Such as in Rwanda where some French partition ignoring ethnic distributions was a prime
    contributing factor.

    War is just a way of establishing new facts on the ground and getting new recognition. It just underscores how superficial and
    self-interested "recognition" of some existing situation are not proper for preserving peace and making life better for people.
    The UN is a waste of space for being a forum for BS opportunistic international politics that ultimately serve imperial ambitions
    of some member states and trample over the so-called international community. The UN is also compromised by infiltration of
    various committees by agents of these imperial powers.

    miketheterrible likes this post

    KoTeMoRe
    KoTeMoRe


    Posts : 4212
    Points : 4227
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  KoTeMoRe Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:59 pm

    Isos wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1320490120819187712

    Nice thread on turkish drones and their stand off attacks on armenian AD.

    Their drone use a lot GPS. Armenia can counter tgem by jamming GPS in the area totally. Then those drones will need constant control from operator and use laser guidance for their MAM munitiins which reduces their range making them go inside AD engagement zone.

    Now they use GPS and can launch MAM L from 14km away. And the drone is just following a preplaned path with GPS instead of radio control.

    Only it is all wrong.

    1. GPS cannot account for mobile targets. I can point out multiple cases of active laser targeting.
    2. MAM-L doesnt have jammers. Harpy and Harop have because they're large ammunitions not a glide ATGM like the MAM ammunition.
    3. Jamming GPS doesn't change much to the problem. Because the GPS there only to make the ammunition self aware. But the Wescam optronics can also calculate LAT/LONG by laser which puts the a pre-path to the MAM, so that the ammunition doesn't lose its momentum while being steered. the laser is still used to home in the target once the target is within the 8km range.
    4. Many claims have been leveled to the TOR, but there has been no image of any of them.
    5. S-300PS were targeted with HArop because the inherent cost/reward of the operation.
    KoTeMoRe
    KoTeMoRe


    Posts : 4212
    Points : 4227
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  KoTeMoRe Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:01 pm

    kvs wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Turkey has deployed Kargut in AZ as well.

    Please keep talking about this being an ARM issue and whatnot.
    The whole situation is being a spearheaded by Turkey including targeted assasinations now.

    The cynicism is going to be sweet, when you'll use NK situation against Turkey in the future regarding ethnic cleansing.




    The freedom to act based on localized moral indignation for countries is very limited unless they are imperial outfits
    like the US and its EU quislings.   Russia is not a hyperpower able to dictate to the world what it wants.   So it has
    to play footsie with Turkey and not just slap it down.  

    At the end of the day it was Armenia itself that decided to throw Russia under the bus and attempt to become yet
    another urchin in NATzO.   Reality bites.


    Same reality will bite when Russia wil be forced to deal with Ukraine and Georgia to defend its own troops. This was a lost chance to put the Turks in their place.
    KoTeMoRe
    KoTeMoRe


    Posts : 4212
    Points : 4227
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  KoTeMoRe Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:04 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote: Russia is indeed holding back because it has the upper hand in the escalation process. That is a dangerous gamble. ...

    They have no reason to escalate

    Armenia clearly doesn't see this situation as too serious so why should Russia barge in uninvited?



    KoTeMoRe wrote: Russia is being cynical wrt to Armenia and is betting on its current protector role AFTER this conflict. This would mean that Russia is expecting ARM population to reject Pash, while they might as well (and this is my opinion) reject an useless Russia (in their eyes).....

    Armenian population can reject useless Russia and it would not cost Russia one cent

    But they should be better prepared for all out war with Turkey down the road than they are for this tiny skirmish with Azerbaijan



    KoTeMoRe wrote: What Armenians chose and what Russia's role in Armenia is are related, but also reciprocating. Russia can let Armenians get slaughtered and pretend it has its hands tied by legal concerns, but it clearly has issues with that approach given what it just did in Syria. ....


    What the did in Syria furthers Russian national interests

    Walking into the trap set up by EU and Armenians does not



    KoTeMoRe wrote:Furthermore, I repeat the issue, it hasn't anything to do with Karabagh, but with the principle of quandary. Russia is not supposed to be the quandary of the region. It is supposed to be fucking Alexander and cut the Gordian knot. Here they literally are letting the Turks get into the negotiation table regarding Artsakh while the Minsk table is already FULL. ....

    There is no knot to cut here

    Karabah is rightful Azeri territory and everyone on this planet agrees, Armenians first and foremost



    KoTeMoRe wrote:  Russia doesn't owe at anyone anything, the same way Armenians do not owe Russia its two bases in Guymri & Erevan, which are literally tripwires vs Turkey. ....

    Armenians are welcome to ask Russians to leave those bases (and to make accommodations for Turkish military which would take their place there immediately afterwards)



    Fact remains that Armenia is acting in bad faith here and that Russia gains more by not getting involved

    If Russians storm in now they will be vindicating current Armenian government which would use first available opportunity to again switch cams and blame Russia both for losses in NK and for acting like militant meddler

    But if they wait and let Armenians taste their own medicine they get to have Armenia served on the platter with pro-EU elements removed from equation and to keep good relations with Azeris (who unlike Armenians were always upfront about what they want)


    What does Russia gain by not getting involved? Nothing. It could have flown in the early days and shot down drones as they were well in range. Deprive the AZ and Turks of their trump card and pulled the cost of war up for AZ. Turkey wouldn't have had the balls to hit Russian jets, we know what happened last time.

    Armenia didn't act at all here.

    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion


    Posts : 5683
    Points : 5667
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:34 pm

    War is just a way of establishing new facts on the ground and getting new recognition. ..
    The UN is a waste of space for being a forum for BS opportunistic international politics that ultimately serve imperial ambitions of some member states and trample over the so-called international community. The UN is also compromised by infiltration of
    various committees by agents of these imperial powers.
    Agreed 100%. Wars create new borders that can be changed by agreements & more wars.
    The ancient Urartu & Van Kingdoms with its Armenian ancestors had many wars & once controlled most of the ME & 1/2 of Anatolia. Later, Persians, Turks & Russians fought each other over those lands.
    [size=16]Civilians Killed as Nagorno-Karabakh Fighting Rages[/size]
    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 9568
    Points : 9554
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  Isos Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:44 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Isos wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1320490120819187712

    Nice thread on turkish drones and their stand off attacks on armenian AD.

    Their drone use a lot GPS. Armenia can counter tgem by jamming GPS in the area totally. Then those drones will need constant control from operator and use laser guidance for their MAM munitiins which reduces their range making them go inside AD engagement zone.

    Now they use GPS and can launch MAM L from 14km away. And the drone is just following a preplaned path with GPS instead of radio control.

    Only it is all wrong.

    1. GPS cannot account for mobile targets. I can point out multiple cases of active laser targeting.
    2. MAM-L doesnt have jammers. Harpy and Harop have because they're large ammunitions not a glide ATGM like the MAM ammunition.
    3. Jamming GPS doesn't change much to the problem. Because the GPS there only to make the ammunition self aware. But the Wescam optronics can also calculate LAT/LONG by laser which puts the a pre-path to the MAM, so that the ammunition doesn't lose its momentum while being steered. the laser is still used to home in the target once the target is within the 8km range.
    4. Many claims have been leveled to the TOR, but there has been no image of any of them.
    5. S-300PS were targeted with HArop because the inherent cost/reward of the operation.

    GPS guidance against fixed targets and can be launched from 14km away. Laser guidance means seeing the target so the drone need to come closer.

    Also the drone uses GPS to fly toward a target in automatic mode unless if it is controled with radio link.

    Jamming the GPS will reduce their attack capabilities, limit them and oblige them to enter the engagement zone of their AD.

    Loitiring munitions use also GPS to fly autonomously.
    KoTeMoRe
    KoTeMoRe


    Posts : 4212
    Points : 4227
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  KoTeMoRe Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:04 pm

    Isos wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Isos wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1320490120819187712

    Nice thread on turkish drones and their stand off attacks on armenian AD.

    Their drone use a lot GPS. Armenia can counter tgem by jamming GPS in the area totally. Then those drones will need constant control from operator and use laser guidance for their MAM munitiins which reduces their range making them go inside AD engagement zone.

    Now they use GPS and can launch MAM L from 14km away. And the drone is just following a preplaned path with GPS instead of radio control.

    Only it is all wrong.

    1. GPS cannot account for mobile targets. I can point out multiple cases of active laser targeting.
    2. MAM-L doesnt have jammers. Harpy and Harop have because they're large ammunitions not a glide ATGM like the MAM ammunition.
    3. Jamming GPS doesn't change much to the problem. Because the GPS there only to make the ammunition self aware. But the Wescam optronics can also calculate LAT/LONG by laser which puts the a pre-path to the MAM, so that the ammunition doesn't lose its momentum while being steered. the laser is still used to home in the target once the target is within the 8km range.
    4. Many claims have been leveled to the TOR, but there has been no image of any of them.
    5. S-300PS were targeted with HArop because the inherent cost/reward of the operation.

    GPS guidance against fixed targets and can be launched from 14km away. Laser guidance means seeing the target so the drone need to come closer.

    Also the drone uses GPS to fly toward a target in automatic mode unless if it is controled with radio link.

    Jamming the GPS will reduce their attack capabilities, limit them and oblige them to enter the engagement zone of their AD.

    Loitiring munitions use also GPS to fly autonomously.

    Yes but the issue is that TB-2 in AZ have targeted multiple targets per strike. I can post the most recent AZ video and point out the Lazing on tape.

    I cannot see the Turks starting with GPS strikes against tanks and lazing guns on the same strafe, would actually cause most of the stand off issue to move from standoff to within firing enveloppe.

    Loitering munition, as I said use GPS coordinates for self awareness wrt waypoints. The issue is that there is always a man on the loop with HARPY.

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 9568
    Points : 9554
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  Isos Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:10 pm

    I'm not saying they can't be used without GPS. But jamming GPS will make their use harder.

    Harop will use fake GPS coordinates from jamming and crash. Or the operator will take control with radio link but then it will be all the way and other ELINT/radio jammers will pick it up and jamm it too.

    If secondary guidance systems were as good as GPS they wouldn't use the GPS. Jamming the GPS will greatly impact their operations for sure.
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 12331
    Points : 12391
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  PapaDragon Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:56 pm


    Putin calls for Turkish involvement in Nagorno-Karabakh talks

    https://www.reuters.com/article/armenia-azerbaijan-int/putin-calls-for-turkish-involvement-in-nagorno-karabakh-talks-idUSKBN27E161

    Ankara is inconvenience, Brussels is the problem, guess which one Russia prefers?

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 9568
    Points : 9554
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  Isos Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:01 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Putin calls for Turkish involvement in Nagorno-Karabakh talks

    https://www.reuters.com/article/armenia-azerbaijan-int/putin-calls-for-turkish-involvement-in-nagorno-karabakh-talks-idUSKBN27E161

    Ankara is inconvenience, Brussels is the problem, guess which one Russia prefers?  


    He is just destroying NATO efficiently by letting Erdogan get involved everywhere against EU interest pushing EU to have a diplomatic war with him.

    It works very well specially with France.

    PapaDragon and lyle6 like this post

    avatar
    par far


    Posts : 3309
    Points : 3554
    Join date : 2014-06-26

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  par far Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:06 pm

    Erdog is looking at Crimea as being Turkish, he has his eyes set on Crimea.


    "Neo-Ottomans On Globalists’ Service: Erdogan Ambitious Gaze Turns Toward Crimea."


    https://southfront.org/neo-ottomans-on-globalistsservice-erdogan-ambitious-gaze-turns-toward-crimea/

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 9568
    Points : 9554
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  Isos Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:09 pm

    We all look at top models on TV yet we can all only dream of marrying one lol1 . Erdo prefer land... well love is quite complicated lol1 . I don't judge.

    par far, PapaDragon and miketheterrible like this post


    Sponsored content


    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 7 Empty Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:33 am