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    Alexei Navalny case

    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:23 pm

    Russia "liberals" are two bit poser 5th column trash. They are the sort of welfare bum leech that expects someone to give
    them money as opposed to earning it. So they whore for the west because they get money thrown their way. They are
    by no means people with principles and legitimate beliefs. They are grifter opportunist trash.

    Just like a detox regimen is good for one's health, Russia should expel this liberast toxin. Navalny should be a good start.
    These vermin have absolutely zero value outside of Russia. Nobody is going to feed them just because they want to be fed.

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    calripson

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    Alexei Navalny case - Page 16 Empty Russia 1990's

    Post  calripson Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:51 pm

    I think today's Russian youth have no idea how bad it was in the 1990s. That is part of the problem. I first went to Russia in 1994 and left in 1999. I was there during the Yeltsin years. I can tell you for the average Russian, particularly outside Moscow, life was grim. I could relate many experiences. I remember watching an old women - perhaps 80 - steal a single potato from a market stall run by Caucasians who pounced on her and began throwing her around. When a middle aged Russian guy tried to intervene they beat him to a pulp. A cop was standing 10 feet way and did nothing. Women prostituted themselves left and right. The streets were lined with people selling whatever private possessions they could find, including war medals, to buy food. All during a time when oligarchs were avoiding any taxes by tolling operations using Cyprus and other offshore venues. They were buying $100 million yachts and mansions in Spain while donating to charitable causes in Britain and Israel. The western press couldn't stop singing their praises while noting that 'a transformation to democracy was difficult". That was the situation Putin stepped into.

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    Post  magnumcromagnon Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:20 pm

    Razz Echo of Moscow may be deprived of licensing for incitement to violence lol1

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:27 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Razz Echo of Moscow may be deprived of licensing for incitement to violence lol1

    Putin's government should stop pandering to NATzO and carry out its duties to Russia.   They swore oaths to do so.   This
    license revocation should not be a "maybe" but a "must".   NATzO bootlicks should not have any special privileges outside
    the law that are not afforded to Russian citizens.

    Let them "go underground".   They will not have more popularity.   They will be forgotten since they are a sick joke.   As
    for the young generation, not every Russian youth is an Ukr type retard pining to wash toilets in the west.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:48 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Ask this question:
    If Navalnys life was in danger because Putin wanted him dead, then why did Germany let Navalnys leave?  Not a peep from them regarding this.
    He overstayed his welcome there by violating Covid-19 rules & engaging in politics- it was forbidden to the "Chancellor's guest". If he released that video while in Germany, her relations with Russia would nosedive (benefiting the US & the UK) as never before since 1945. Thus, he was told to leave & in fact extradited back, allowing the Germans to wash their hands & stay on the good side of Putin, who got rid of 1 group & subjugated another group of oligarchs, just like he coopted Kadyrov against other Chechens. This 2nd group stays out of politics & is allowed to plunder the people as long as it pays a tribute to him in the form of real estate. yachts, planes, etc.
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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:05 pm

    The Putin problem is far more complicated than "bwaaah oligarchs, cleptocrats aaaah"...

    He is not so much the president as the great arbiter between the guys wanting to earn as much money as humanly possible and who want liberal capitalistic laissez faire "rules", and the traditional power structures ("siloviki" I suppose you'd call them still to this day) who want the state to control as much as possible, as that benefits them. Both of these "camps" have significant throw-weight, and Putin caters to both, but has to balance things. That's why they've kind of met in the middle, with the hardcore vultures being thrown out (Berezovsky, Khodorkovsky, Browder etc etc etc) and the hardcore uniform bearers being moderated.

    It's an extremely complicated topic though, not something I should elaborate on right now at the pub. What is certain though is that there is corruption everywhere, albeit diminishing, and that nobody is "innocent".

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    Alexei Navalny case - Page 16 Empty Balancing Act

    Post  calripson Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:18 pm

    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:The Putin problem is far more complicated than "bwaaah oligarchs, cleptocrats aaaah"...

    He is not so much the president as the great arbiter between the guys wanting to earn as much money as humanly possible and who want liberal capitalistic laissez faire "rules", and the traditional power structures ("siloviki" I suppose you'd call them still to this day) who want the state to control as much as possible, as that benefits them. Both of these "camps" have significant throw-weight, and Putin caters to both, but has to balance things. That's why they've kind of met in the middle, with the hardcore vultures being thrown out (Berezovsky, Khodorkovsky, Browder etc etc etc) and the hardcore uniform bearers being moderated.

    It's an extremely complicated topic though, not something I should elaborate on right now at the pub. What is certain though is that there is corruption everywhere, albeit diminishing, and that nobody is "innocent".

    In the beginning, I think Putin was forced into this delicate balancing act to maintain power. He deftly set one oligarch against another and reined in the Siloviki when he saw a need. I think later he maintained this balance because he genuinely believes that state run economics is a dead end. For better or worse, he buys into neoliberal economics which is one reason he gives such latitude to the central bank.

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    Post  kvs Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:43 pm

    It is hard coming out of the wreak called the USSR to retain faith in a planned state economy. Putin most likely understands
    human psychology. The tragedy of the commons is what destroys good intentions in running society and economy. Humans
    just do not have the natural born behaviour needed to prevent rot. Balancing competing interests manages to counteract
    the rot to a large extent. But the problem is that balancing acts are by definition unstable. So the price of rot reduction
    is instability that will manifest itself eventually.

    America has clearly slid into the toilet of one faction taking over. It will experience accelerated catabolic decline.

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:53 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:(...)This 2nd group stays out of politics & is allowed to plunder the people as long as it pays a tribute to him in the form of real estate. yachts, planes, etc.
    As far as I understood, when Putin came.to power in 2000 the situation was really bad with the oligarchs, who basically controlled the state.
    As president he was stronger than anyone of them taken singularly, but could not win against them all.
    So he tried a compromise:
    He told them that if they stayed out of media and politics (since they basically stole their companies in the 90s and got rich in non honest ways), payed taxes in Russia, employed people and stopped bringing money abroad they could have kept most of their wealth.

    Khodorkovsky did basically the exact opposite and even tried to give yukos to foreign partners (he was also implicated with commissioned murders, etc), it was absolutely necessary to make an example out of him (and a few others that crossed the lines). As far as those killed abroad, it is not fully clear what happened, but is highly possible that was either a false flag or a settling of scores between them and some other ex partners in criminal activities.

    As far as the other oligarchs, most of them now are behaving and paying taxes: they are definitely not worst than most of America's billionaires.

    In an ideal world people that got rich by stealing from the state in the 90s should not be rewarded for it, but unfortunately we are far from an ideal world, and if they are now "reformed", and their industries are bringing wealth to the state t is much easier to keep the status quo.
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    Post  kvs Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:49 pm

    The western "analysis" of Putin and Russia is schizophrenic.

    1) Putin "offs" his opponents, but all of the highlights are inane and tiny in total number. Even small countries
    like El Salvador, Honduras or Guatemala saw way more political deaths than Russia since 1990. If Putin
    was murdering his opponents the body count would be in the thousands and higher. Litvinenko, Navalny, etc.
    are pure tin foil hat accusations. Bill Clinton has a trail of bodies behind him including key witnesses
    at trials that could have sent him to the slammer. Yet some two bit loser like Litvinenko who claimed to
    have a "suitcase full of evidence" never once produced it over a stretch of over 10 years. Sorry, but
    claims are not physical facts.

    It is clear that Putin has massive popular support in Russia and does not need to grasp on to power. That
    is just the same BS NATzO propaganda that tries to paint Navalny as "the main opposition leader in Russia".

    2) The claim that Putin is corrupt and surrounded by corrupt oligarchs is funny coming from countries such as
    the USA where the oligarchy owns both the R. and D. Parties and the MSM. The US MIC siphoning off trillions
    in taxpayer money which the Pentagon loses track of through "accounting errors" is supposed to be squeaky
    clean but Putin is alleged to own every government residence in Russia. Really, you stupid c*nts, put up or
    shut up.

    3) Putin is a "thug" but Obummer and his drone murder of thousands of civilians (14% supposed hit rate on
    actual targets with the rest being collateral damage) is a great statesman.

    The pattern is clear, pure anti-Russian hate propaganda.



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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:31 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Ask this question:
    If Navalnys life was in danger because Putin wanted him dead, then why did Germany let Navalnys leave?  Not a peep from them regarding this.
    He overstayed his welcome there by violating Covid-19 rules & engaging in politics- it was forbidden to the "Chancellor's guest". If he released that video while in Germany, her relations with Russia would nosedive (benefiting the US & the UK) as never before since 1945. Thus, he was told to leave & in fact extradited back, allowing the Germans to wash their hands & stay on the good side of Putin, who got rid of 1 group & subjugated another group of oligarchs, just like he coopted Kadyrov against other Chechens. This 2nd group stays out of politics & is allowed to plunder the people as long as it pays a tribute to him in the form of real estate. yachts, planes, etc.

    He was not allowed to engage in politics??? All the f* stunt was nothing but a dirty political game. Merkel did not want to sour relations with Russia you say, but allowed and peddled the whole circus and lead the smear campaign. That must be because she was specially interested in cozying up to Putin. Please give us a break with your fairy tales...

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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:51 am

    She voiced her concerns but he went too far, putting Germany in no-win situation, & was going to stay there & release the video. The Germans got wind of it & told him to go home ASAP. Navalny then claimed that he didn't want to release the video before coming back to Russia, otherwise it would look like he's afraid of Putin.
    Now we know the rest of the story.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:36 am

    Rich people will always have power... anyone thinking Putin can destroy all the oligarchs and just rule Russia for the people is dreaming.... you can't do that in the west either...

    The point is that Putin has managed to keep most very rich Russians out of politics which is good for Russian politics... in the west most of the unfathomable decisions to go to war normally have a western rich person who will benefit... why is the US in Afghanistan? Probably because there are untapped minerals in those enormous mountain ranges that have never had civilisation set up shop there for a decade and strip mine them out... the people of America don't benefit but some big companies really really do.

    Rich people will always have power, but keeping them out of politics and political decisions is about the best you can hope to achieve and that is what Putin has done.

    He is not omnipotent... there were buildings and places in the Chechen conflict that weren't bombed because the owner didn't want his assets destroyed, but for the most part his decisions benefit Russians including nationalising the resources of Russia so western companies can't come in and steal Russian wealth while paying peanuts for the priviledge... like oil and gas and diamond mining and other companies do around the world.
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    Post  LMFS Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:52 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:She voiced her concerns but he went too far, putting Germany in no-win situation, & was going to stay there & release the video. The Germans got wind of it & told him to go home ASAP. Navalny then claimed that he didn't want to release the video before coming back to Russia, otherwise it would look like he's afraid of Putin.
    Now we know the rest of the story.  

    The rest of the story is that Navalny is a crook that acts as he is told or he is dead like all the dead stooges before him, and that you are completely full of shit. All this started when Navalny went to Germany, is it too far away for you to remember? How come Merkel does not want to damage the relationship with Russia, when they smear them day and night with false, ludicrous accusations, do you take us all for retards?

    GarryB wrote:Rich people will always have power... anyone thinking Putin can destroy all the oligarchs and just rule Russia for the people is dreaming.... you can't do that in the west either...

    The point is that Putin has managed to keep most very rich Russians out of politics which is good for Russian politics... in the west most of the unfathomable decisions to go to war normally have a western rich person who will benefit... why is the US in Afghanistan? Probably because there are untapped minerals in those enormous mountain ranges that have never had civilisation set up shop there for a decade and strip mine them out... the people of America don't benefit but some big companies really really do.

    Rich people will always have power, but keeping them out of politics and political decisions is about the best you can hope to achieve and that is what Putin has done.

    He is not omnipotent... there were buildings and places in the Chechen conflict that weren't bombed because the owner didn't want his assets destroyed, but for the most part his decisions benefit Russians including nationalising the resources of Russia so western companies can't come in and steal Russian wealth while paying peanuts for the priviledge... like oil and gas and diamond mining and other companies do around the world.

    Some people who still have to leave kindergarten think that democracy exists and elites do not necessarily rule the countries, but they always do. The best you can do is, as you say, when you manage a balance between the different interest groups within them that is not fundamentally detrimental to the state, that is a balancing act of extreme difficulty and it has been the case for the governing of Russia for the last 20 years. It demands a crafty calculation of the own forces and the way to develop them over time in order to increase the power of the state on the long run. Putin, as he does in foreign policy, has been trying to reduce frictions with their enemies and attract them to his camp, slowly but steadily. You cannot do this overnight, many people need to be offered a smaller resistance path with some advantages so they can be turned from enemies into allies or at least prevent them from joining forces against yourself, we see what has happened with Trump as a good example of clumsy, overconfident policies that generate too many enemies before having any real power. That is why Russia only very progressively has increased their assertiveness and why Putin normally allows situations to go well beyond the point due for intervention, it must be clear for everyone that when a decision is taken like with the constitutional changes or ongoing neutralisation of liberals in the government, there is simply no other alternative. This accurate calculation of the own forces and the ways to avoid overstretching them is what many observers miss when they analyse the situation in Russia, but it is crucial for the successes of the current government over the last 20 years.
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    Post  Arrow Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:37 pm

    More and more demonstrations.  Navalny can be a problem for Putin.


    https://t.me/SIL0VIKI/30314


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    Post  kvs Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:49 pm

    The fact that Putin is having to engage in an epic balancing act is confirmed by the efforts of NATzO to bring him down. The
    plan was always to have an oligarch toilet emerge like the one in Ukraine and destroy Russia in the process. I clearly recall the
    change in tone from NATzO when it became clear that Putin was not another Yeltsin and was actually putting a clamp on the
    oligarch maggots. The people spreading tin foil hat BS about Putin on this board are nothing but lying trolls or useful idiots.
    Navalny's claim that corruption showed up in Russia after Putin took over and NATzO's support for this BS is further proof of
    this.

    Take your Navalny apologia and extolling and shove it.

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    Post  par far Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:50 pm

    This clown should have been released within 72 hours of questioning, he should have been released and should have been kept under strict supervision. This way he is a nobody.

    Maybe this done to see who the people were that came to do this.


    Last edited by par far on Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  kvs Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:51 pm

    Also the anti-Russia troll in this thread voted for Biden. Biden the total crook and his assclown rotten son Hunter who participated
    in the corruption of the corrupt Kiev regime. So all the BS about Putin is just pathetic guilt transfer. The same old story from
    bloody western hypocrites.



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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:53 pm

    Arrow wrote:More and more demonstrations.  Navalny can be a problem for Putin.


    https://t.me/SIL0VIKI/30314



    Only about 4000 people took part.

    Laughable really. And they are mostly kids.  They will ruin their own lives.

    https://antimaidan.ru/news/19346

    https://twitter.com/NinaByzantina/status/1352995629060952066?s=20

    https://twitter.com/NinaByzantina/status/1353011642582274049?s=20


    Last edited by miketheterrible on Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  par far Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:53 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Razz Echo of Moscow may be deprived of licensing for incitement to violence lol1


    I think this was one of the main reasons, the intelligence agencies wanted to see who would come out of the wood shed.
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    Post  par far Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:56 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    Arrow wrote:More and more demonstrations.  Navalny can be a problem for Putin.


    https://t.me/SIL0VIKI/30314



    Only about 4000 people took part.

    Laughable really. And they are mostly kids.  They will ruin their own lives.

    https://antimaidan.ru/news/19346


    Very true, they can kiss government jobs goodbye. Hopefully tabs are kept on these idiots and they go to the west to be demonized as "privileged white" kids.


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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:56 pm

    How come Merkel does not want to damage the relationship with Russia, when they smear them day and night with false, ludicrous accusations,..
    she went along until realizing that it's not in Germany's interests to play the UK & US game against Russia.
    The latest protests resemble the start of Belorussian scenario. This winter won't be boring in Russia!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP6HIx0H8SI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-rkmvV9zKE

    https://youtu.be/COGViKdAtno

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRglcF7YZo4

    This way he is a nobody.
    Not after his videowas seen by 70M Russians!
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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:18 pm

    What's good for the Goose, good for the gander.

    I would tell the police they have full right to crack skulls.  Put many of them protestors in the hospital or the morgue.

    I'm OK with that. Their lives are pointless.


    Last edited by miketheterrible on Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  par far Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:53 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    How come Merkel does not want to damage the relationship with Russia, when they smear them day and night with false, ludicrous accusations,..
    she went along until realizing that it's not in Germany's interests to play the UK & US game against Russia.
    The latest protests resemble the start of Belorussian scenario. This winter won't be boring in Russia!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP6HIx0H8SI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-rkmvV9zKE

    https://youtu.be/COGViKdAtno

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRglcF7YZo4

    This way he is a nobody.
    Not after his videowas seen by 70M Russians!


    Russians aren't stupid like people in the west, the Russians can think for themselves.
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    Post  PhSt Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:59 pm

    Not after his video was seen by 70M Russians!

    LMAO There is NO WAY for a video uploaded 5 days ago to have 70+ million views unless its been rigged just like the recent election in US Rolling Eyes

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