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US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

Tsavo Lion

Tsavo Lion: Posts : 5964
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Post n°451

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

Tsavo Lion Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:50 pm

par far wrote:If iran was smart, they would develop their economy and improve the lives of their citizens, they can do this by saying keep the arms embargo but remove all other sanctions.

the US doesn't want Iran with strong economy until the regime there is changed, no matter what they'll say.

https://eurasiantimes.com/not-russia-but-iran-placed-bounties-on-american-heads-in-afghanistan-reports/

nomadski

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Post n°452

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

nomadski Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:24 pm

Yes I am afraid that I was right, about the reality of the world we live in. A state of continuous national and other wars. The primary language here is not some notion of fairness or justice. But domination and self serving politics at almost any cost.

Therefore there can be no balance of reason. But balance of terror. The only justice comes out of a barrel of gun. All forms of guns. Here then Iran needs detterent. For a balance of terror. The only motivating factor that nations understand. Strategic detterence.

If Iran did not have this, irrespective of where it got it's conventional arms, it would face defeat. Since it can never match enemy conventional forces in conventional terms. And even if it did, others would tend to use various forms of WMD including starvation tactics . As in Japan. And nearly in Korea or Vietnam or Cuba....

The sufficient conditions for progress and economic development, can not be obtained without security. Which means strategic detterence. But with detterence, sufficient conditions can be brought about for alternate economic development.

https://en.mehrnews.com/news/162425/Iran-capable-of-building-strategic-weapons-Defense-minister

GarryB

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Post n°453

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

GarryB Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:44 am

If iran was smart, they would develop their economy and improve the lives of their citizens, they can do this by saying keep the arms embargo but remove all other sanctions.

That is what they did when they signed the agreement... that is what the agreement said.... no arms till now and prove you are not making weapons and we promise to invest in your economy and help you develop... which the US ripped up and backed out of and the sanctions they are threatening to impose on other countries who didn't back out of the agreement are effectively making them break the agreement too by not delivering on the investment they promised... so essentially Iran is doing what it agreed and the EU and US are not providing investment as they agreed yet still demanding Iran stick to its part of the deal.

How about no.

The US signed the deal to stop Iran buying lots of weapons and becoming more dangerous... they will never come back to the deal unless Iran buys lots of weapons and becomes much more dangerous...

Iran certainly needs to grow and develop... especially its own ability to make drugs and medicine, and also food, and processing its own oil into useful materials would be a good step forward for them as well...

nomadski

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Post n°454

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

nomadski Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:30 am

New generation of jet engines to be shown soon on Army day!

"..... The Defense Ministry is going to launch an assembly line producing the Owj jet engine, and will also unveil a homegrown engine with a new generation of technology, he said......"

https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2020/08/19/2330785/iranian-missiles-beat-enemy-s-air-defense-minister

crod

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Post n°455

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

crod Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:53 pm

US snapback...that’s going rather swimmingly for the yanks at the UN... Laughing

mnztr

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Post n°456

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

mnztr Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:23 am

crod wrote:US snapback...that’s going rather swimmingly for the yanks at the UN...

Yup the Dominican Republic.. I am sure Russia and China are quaking in their boots.

crod

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Post n°457

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

crod Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:21 am

According to Mike I ate all the pies Pompeo the US will forge ahead and throw sanctions regardless of no UN backing.
Not sure what the work around will be, but the US still has the power to do this until the control of the world financial systems is taken from them.

Last edited by crod on Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:22 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo)

kvs

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Post n°458

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

kvs Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:27 am

crod wrote:According to Mike I ate all the pies Pompeo the US will forge ahead and throw sanctions regardless of no UN backing.
Not sure what the work around will be, but the US still has the power to do this until the control of the world financial systems is taken from them.

Iran has been under US sanctions pressure for a long time. But this time around the US will not have the UN backing for it. So
brazen flaunting of US "laws" will occur routinely. Before the US could impound ships sailing in and out of Iranian ports. Now they
will be engaged in piracy. I know, they are already doing it as with the Iranian ship near China. But being a rouge state is not
a long term viable option of the US. It's "might makes right" crutch is fading, fast.

nomadski

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Post n°459

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

nomadski Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:49 pm

Agree. The Hawks have shown that they are ready to strike in PG region. Even from Saudi soil. They carried out raid against PMU, from Saudi soil, instead of their Aircraft carriers. Knowing that a retaliation against their bases in Saudi, will bring in Saudi into war against Iran. Consolidating their military hold on the kingdom. Establish their bases there long term. Effectively throwing the Saudis under a bus. Only to come later as their protectors. They might even see the destruction brought on Saudi, as opportunity for their civilian sector. In reconstruction projects. They can also inflict heavy damage to Iran. Bring it to defeat. Or so they hope. While making money for the war Hawks.

And even if oil flow disrupted to Europe or Japan. So what. They will sell their fracked oil to Europe. Pushing Russia out. Or so they hope. They have had success, and have shown that they will widen the war too, against Iran. By intercepting oil to Syria and Venezuela.

I don't think the civilian sector has primacy in Washington, in foreign policy. Not the Farmers or car industry or plumbing. But military industrial sector. Zionist lobby.

However I think that before any war with Yanks. Iran should hold out the olive branch to this sector. Encourage trade by itself and others in region. Per chance they may carry the day. Also Iran has more to gain by not displaying strategic detterence, before war either. Since Russia or China may have arm twisted badly by Yanks, over this. And impose sanctions.

However after war starts. Unlikely civilian and industrial targets will be exempt from attack. Especially by the Yanks, who want to cripple and choke Iranians. In this case then yank Industrial and economic interests in region and further are fair game. And Iran has nothing to loose and everything to gain, at this stage, to bring out the big Guns. And to displace the statue of Liberty , a few hundred metres.......

Tsavo Lion

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Post n°460

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

Tsavo Lion Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:53 am

China will derail US economic sabotage of Iran, just like she did in NK, Burma, Thailand & Pakistan:
https://www.juancole.com/2020/08/bruited-investment-beijing.html

GarryB likes this post

GarryB

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Post n°461

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

GarryB Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:09 am

The thing is that saving the economies in these countries is not charity... I am sure China will make money on these investments, and those countries will be better off because of it too.

starman

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Post n°462

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

starman Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:58 am

Tsavo Lion wrote:China will derail US economic sabotage of Iran, just like she did in NK, Burma, Thailand & Pakistan:

Very interesting but will it really happen? One vid points out that promised Chinese investment in Eastern Europe didn't materialize, and cozying up to Iran could be just a tactic to penalize Washington for its trade war with China. Like Eastern Europe, Iran could be just a bargaining chip. But even if $400 billion exaggerates what's really coming, I doubt it's just smoke and mirrors. Unlike Eastern Europe, Iran has plenty of oil and a strategic location.

JohninMK

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Post n°463

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

JohninMK Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:13 am

[quote="starman"]

Tsavo Lion wrote:
One vid points out that promised Chinese investment in Eastern Europe didn't materialize,

Unlike Eastern Europe, Iran has plenty of oil and a strategic location.

The only real strategic location in EE was Ukraine and the US made sure that its attractiveness disappeared.

Its a huge multi decade takeover of a significant amount of Iranian oil that's the real driver along with the sea transport access to Africa and maybe eastern South America.

Its almost like, just with Russia, the US is driving Iran into a closer relationship with China and not the EU.

Tsavo Lion

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Post n°464

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

Tsavo Lion Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:09 pm

https://www.juancole.com/2020/09/saboteur-making-mockery.html

nomadski

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Post n°465

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

nomadski Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:21 am

I understand why the Americans are against a Nuclear armed Iran. Since they will not be able to make a serious attack. But why other nations should care? Since they are also already under sanction. And if Yanks arm other nations with nukes, in retaliation for Iran going nuclear, so what? The Yanks already have many more nukes pointed at the world, and this will not change. The non US based economies are not expansionist like US. They increase their influence by trade. And more countries having detterent, will mean less US based troublemaking in the world. A stable economic environment. I think they should give private signals to Tehran. The green light. That only leaves the defeatist bunch in Iran. Who have to be pushed aside......

https://youtu.be/S33m8dkAANw

Chinese learning to become more EXCITED. Must learn also to become less EXCITED ( JCPOA, shopping trip......).

Do the Americans become excited about Usrael Nukes ? Jumping up and down that they are not part of NPT ? Do they pressure them for inspections? Do they ever talk about them? Do they base relationship with Usrael or Pakistan, based on Nukes? Then why China or Russia even care? Commenting at highest level? The American allies are immune from criticism. Why Iran is not free from criticisms? Why ? Why Saudi not allow inspections ? Why China and Russia not crucify the Yanks and IAEA over this ? Any ally of USA , can do anything they want. Ally of China or Russia can do nothing........

Tsavo Lion

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Post n°466

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

Tsavo Lion Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:30 pm

The united Semites vs. Persians:
https://vz.ru/opinions/2020/8/18/1055442.html

kvs

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Post n°467

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

kvs Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:10 pm

nomadski wrote:I understand why the Americans are against a Nuclear armed Iran. Since they will not be able to make a serious attack. But why other nations should care? Since they are also already under sanction. And if Yanks arm other nations with nukes, in retaliation for Iran going nuclear, so what? The Yanks already have many more nukes pointed at the world, and this will not change. The non US based economies are not expansionist like US. They increase their influence by trade. And more countries having detterent, will mean less US based troublemaking in the world. A stable economic environment. I think they should give private signals to Tehran. The green light. That only leaves the defeatist bunch in Iran. Who have to be pushed aside......

https://youtu.be/S33m8dkAANw

Chinese learning to become more EXCITED. Must learn also to become less EXCITED ( JCPOA, shopping trip......).

Do the Americans become excited about Usrael Nukes ? Jumping up and down that they are not part of NPT ? Do they pressure them for inspections? Do they ever talk about them? Do they base relationship with Usrael or Pakistan, based on Nukes? Then why China or Russia even care? Commenting at highest level? The American allies are immune from criticism. Why Iran is not free from criticisms? Why ? Why Saudi not allow inspections ? Why China and Russia not crucify the Yanks and IAEA over this ? Any ally of USA , can do anything they want. Ally of China or Russia can do nothing........

I agree 1000%. I would rather have Iran with nuclear warhead enabled ICBMs than any of the EU-tard US vassals, Pakistan, and of course Israel. Iran is being smeared by the real terrorist enablers (the patrons of
Saudi Arabia) as being "a terrorist sponsor" for daring to support Hezbollah in its liberation struggle against Israeli occupation. That is Orwellian newspeak which works on apathetic not intellectually engaged people.

GarryB and starman like this post

nomadski

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Post n°468

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

nomadski Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:39 am

https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2020/09/08/2344011/iran-s-zarif-hails-swiss-efforts-to-mitigate-us-sabotage

Now there is murmurings of negotiations with USA. Importing grain. I will have to say :

( 1 ) Negotiations for political progress are useless. Since demands of US, run counter to Iranian interests. Iran will not recognise the Zionist entity. Stop support for allies in region. Or bring in American human rights.

( 2 ) Limiting Iran industry and science are useless. Iran will not abandon national defence. Strategic weapon development. Nuclear industry or research. Building the full fuel cycle. Import or export of military equipment.

( 3 ) Economic sanctions by USA, are useless. The world will increasingly trade with Iran. Not just China or Russia. But Europe and Asia and South America too. The USA, is in a prison of it's own making.

However, I think that both sides can allow for mutually beneficial trade, where possible. As an initial step to improving relations. However neither side can or should impose conditions for this trade. And keep it as a separate issue, if possible.

JohninMK

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Post n°469

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

JohninMK Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:37 am

nomadski wrote:

https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2020/09/08/2344011/iran-s-zarif-hails-swiss-efforts-to-mitigate-us-sabotage

Now there is murmurings of negotiations with USA. Importing grain.

Another Russian export opportunity?

GarryB

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Post n°470

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

GarryB Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:59 pm

Importing grain... Russia can help there...

miketheterrible

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Post n°471

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

miketheterrible Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:19 pm

They will end up getting Russian grain for multitude of reasons.

Cheaper and proximity are two major points. Delivery through Caspian Sea will guarantee quicker transport. And cheap.

Iran is seeking out cheaper offers and nothing wrong with that.

But I forsee a huge economic co development between Russia and Iran.

Tsavo Lion

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Post n°472

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

Tsavo Lion Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:14 pm

Lindsey Graham: Soleimani hit “Over the Top”– As all Trump’s Iran Goals Foiled

GarryB

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Post n°473

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

GarryB Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:27 am

The problem with such statements... (by Graham or anyone else in US politics) it tends to be more about a way of attacking trump than being sensible about Iran or Russia or China or whomever the subject is today...

Just an anti trump rant during election time... if the opposition gets into power don't expect them to behave any different...

JohninMK

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Post n°474

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

JohninMK Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:28 am

The media has largely missed this, but Pompeo has signaled that the US will enforce (non-existent) UN sanctions on Iran importing/exporting weapons as early as next week.

Difficult to see how as most would probably come/go overland. Possibly by confiscating Iranian cargo ships.

This could spark a US-Iran war – only weeks before the presidential elections.

With less than seven weeks left until the U.S. presidential elections, the faction within the Trump administration aligned with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo seems to be preparing the ground for an October Surprise — a confrontation with Iran that will be cast as both defensive and lawful. The first direct clash may take place as early as this coming Monday.

Pompeo tweeted on August 27 that the 30 day period to snapback United Nations Security Council sanctions on Iran comes to an end on September 20, 2020. The tweet was bizarre on several grounds. First, the entire U.N. Security Council (with the notable exception of the Dominican Republic) had made clear that the U.S. did not have standing to initiate the snapback mechanism contained within the Iran nuclear deal since the U.S. no longer was a party to the agreement. Pompeo’s tweet completely disregards the verdict of the vast majority of the Council and pretends as if the 30-day snapback clock had begun.

Second, and perhaps more problematic, Pompeo appeared to signal that he intends to enforce the non-existent U.N. sanctions at “midnight GMT on September 20.” Enforcement would entail U.S. warships attacking and confiscating Iranian cargo ships in international waters — as well as non-Iranian vessels suspected of carrying Iranian goods. Pompeo will contend that these measures are not only lawful but also necessary to uphold the (again, non-existent) ruling of the U.N. Security Council.

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2020/09/16/is-mike-pompeo-preparing-an-october-surprise/?mc_cid=0ffb01d222&mc_eid=fee8fd8a4f

GarryB

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Post n°475

Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

GarryB Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:48 pm

Puts American military personel in an awkward position, but why would he start giving a shit about them now?

Russia Defence Forum

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Lindsey Graham: Soleimani hit “Over the Top”– As all Trump’s Iran Goals Foiled

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