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    US-Iran standoff 2019-

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:27 am

    Yeah, the problem is the west, and they really don't forgive when they should and ironically forgive too easily when they shouldn't.

    In the west Japan holds none of the guilt for WWII, even when Germany is generally blamed for WWI and also WWII in the west... but that is blurring even now and pretty soon the bad guys of WWII will be Nazis which you can't equate to just Germans because that is racist and so many Germans were as much a victim of the nazis as people in other countries were... and the Commies, but that is only Russia of course because it was that famous Russian that was to blame for everything... Stalin.

    Even now the break up of Yugoslavia was the fault of the Serbs, and of course you can't say anything anti jew or anti black or anti gay or anti muslim, but anti Russian is fine...

    Which brings us the the crux of your problem... Iran is to blame... it does not matter if they nationalise their oil resources and mineral wealth and let rich western countries go in there are rob them blind... they are still the enemy because there is no way they could afford 400 billion dollars worth of US military equipment orders like the Saudis pretend to want... but of course they might talk about 400 billion dollars worth of orders but how much they actually buy is another matter...

    Anyone can say they are interested in hundreds of billions of dollars in orders when they are killing reporters and getting away with it it seems... screw western morals and ideals when there is money to be made...

    Folding to the wests demands is pointless because it wont win your friends or good will, it just means you undermine your own future economically... the US objections to nord stream two has nothing to do with political influence and everything to do with the US trying to break into the European energy market with a product that costs too much to be competitive in a fair free and open market...
    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:18 pm

    GarryB wrote:Folding to the wests demands is pointless because it wont win your friends or good will, it just means you undermine your own future economically... the US objections to nord stream two has nothing to do with political influence and everything to do with the US trying to break into the European energy market with a product that costs too much to be competitive in a fair free and open market...

    Correct on all accounts, both Gadaffi and Saddam tried to play ball with the West, and all they got were Bombs, Bombs and more Bombings on their country.
    Medvedev also tried to play ball, but all he got was Georgia and Ukraine on fire.

    Eventually people will pick up on these hints, and not bother with the West anymore.
    In Iran's case, you would think having their airliner shot down would've been enough, but no, lets keep buying Boeing aircraft, that's gonna end well.
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:30 pm

    nomadski wrote:It has been proved that if too much economic wealth is allowed women , so they become needless of men . That they are less likely to get married . Or have children ! And that the greater wealth of men , the more likely that they get married and have children ! So to keep population stable , for women and men of  reproductive age , the women need to receive wages through men . And men need to give women financial support . If women divorce , then they recieve wages directly by employer . But custody of children is with men . Unless they relinquish . Child support payment is paid by father at his discretion and  direct to mother face to face or children . So human paternal link is not broken . As is case in some capitalist western nation . UK . Women who become economically independent and have the vote , are likely to vote for their " right " to have abortions or have custody of children in case of divorce or opt for dissolutions of marriage as institution or not get married in first place . Or get pregnant by artificial insemination  , to deny father paternity  rights  , sole " ownership of children as property  "  . I have seen this among millionairess  Hollywood women !

    On a happier note , Iran will  export oil under any circumstance . Meaning Iran will not  answer to demand of UK that it is answerable to demand of UK and should follow their national law , in imposing sanctions against Syria Gibraltar's waters are under law , international trade transitions routes . EU does not have right to  stop traffic . So the English are stuck ! They face retaliation in Persian Gulf !


    https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2019/07/14/2053616/britain-s-failure-to-release-iranian-supertanker-not-to-go-unanswered-envoy

    Let's not get too deep into semantics here, but yes.
    Such reforms are gonna be necessary, if a country wants to maintain a stable "internal" population.
    Starting first and for most with the "Right" to vote, because if they vote they will eventually replace the Man with Government welfare, causing both population decline and worst still, a need for immigrants in order to keep their Welfare nonsense afloat, which as we can see in Europe, is a recipe for disaster, and in a few generation complete replacement (aka: Ethnic cleansing).

    We will see how this spat with Iran go's, but Britain itself is screwed, because the Brits are in no mood for another U.S ordered War, meaning the current government is in even more deep trouble with the voters.
    So the next election in Britain is gonna be interesting.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:11 pm

    @ AlfaT8

    The people anywhere in world,  care little what happens , as long as they are ok . No reason for people in UK , to care much what happens in the world . They are too busy with daily life . Unless someone bombs their chippy . Like in ww2 ! On happier note , Iran getting ready for NBC war ! I wonder who is going to use these  NBC weapons ?

    https://en.mehrnews.com/news/147669/IRGC-naval-forces-equipped-with-new-personal-defensive-equipment

    Looks like the UK , is not even acting legal in taking Iran oil Tanker . EU law does not extend to Gibraltar water . Iran said retaliation will follow for UK .  A like for like response in Hormuz ?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transit_passage

    Transit passage exists throughout the entire strait, not just the area overlapped by the territorial waters of the coastal nations. The ships and aircraft of all nations, including warships, auxiliaries, and military aircraft, enjoy the right of unimpeded transit passage in such straits and their approaches. Submarines are free to transit international straits submerged since that is their normal mode of operation.

    https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2019/07/16/2055693/ayatollah-khamenei-warns-uk-of-response-to-iranian-oil-tanker-seizure
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:16 pm

    US has three options to subdue Iran
    http://www.pravdareport.com/opinion/142525-mission_iran/

    https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2667204.html
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:50 am

    Ignores option four... stop being a censored and ask that the agreement be honoured by all sides and drop all sanctions against Iran and those that trade with her and act like a responsible sensible country... but that is not going to happen...
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    par far

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    Post  par far on Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:03 pm

    A very good article explaining how Russia views this situation.


    https://southfront.org/israel-shamir-liberalism-is-over/
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:56 pm

    @Tsavolion

    The first article is wrong in implying that the possession of single nuke warhead is significant by Iran. Nukes are strong but not magic. What will have portents will be the possession of minimum credible nuclear detterent . In the case of yank, about fifty missiles are needed, with MIRV, to assure that say ten get through.   Also the author fails to point out, that any combined long distance attack together with fomenting rebellion, though effective, will also have losses for yank side. Both militarily and socially, as regards their allies. The political situation in Saudi  and Persian Gulf states is far more unstable than Iran. Not to mention Pakistan.!

    @ GarryB

    Agree. Sanctions will not be lifted. Unless material conditions are changed on the ground in Europe. Any disadvantage that a business has in trading with Iran. Must be offset by greater disadvantage of not trading with Iran. A collapse of business and social order. No fuel. No workers turn up. Chaos. 1973 again.!

    @ parfar

    If Russian viewpoint is in favour of supporting positive national forces, against negative Liberal  forces, then it should follow the rules itself. This means upholding Syria International borders, and setting up national defence industry to allow national defence. To defeat all separatist forces. In Israel, it means a referendum by all residents and displaced persons regarding formation of unitary state.
    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:39 pm

    nomadski wrote:@ AlfaT8

    The people anywhere in world,  care little what happens , as long as they are ok . No reason for people in UK , to care much what happens in the world . They are too busy with daily life . Unless someone bombs their chippy . Like in ww2 ! On happier note , Iran getting ready for NBC war ! I wonder who is going to use these  NBC weapons ?

    https://en.mehrnews.com/news/147669/IRGC-naval-forces-equipped-with-new-personal-defensive-equipment

    Looks like the UK , is not even acting legal in taking Iran oil Tanker . EU law does not extend to Gibraltar water . Iran said retaliation will follow for UK .  A like for like response in Hormuz ?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transit_passage

    Normally that would be true, but since this involves actual British forces and their Tankers, the public would have a very keen interest in it.
    Ever since the Iraq War the UK has had a very negative view of anyone repeating Tony Blair's "Ready to do what America says" stance, combined that with the complete lack of public support for another War in the Middle-East, and you have a very serious Election problem.

    I don't think anyone would use NBC weapons here, especially not N weapons, so close to Russia.

    Yap, no legal basis whatsoever.
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    Post  nomadski on Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:27 pm


    @ AlfaT8

    I wish I could agree. But public anywhere only care about themselves. Not even their troops. Especially if casualties low. The recent wars in ME, have decensitized the public towards war. Especially as no consequences for them. No chippy destroyed. Politicians care about their career. The Liberal elite control them. Feed them. The CIA and Co work together. Dodgy dossiers not needed anymore. If yanks won't use WMD, then others may. At least a demonstration of force. Near a ship. So the blast will blow their hair off course!

    Peace.
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    ATLASCUB

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    Post  ATLASCUB on Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:03 pm

    Iran seized the UAE ship. This is getting juicy.

    Foreign vessel carrying ‘smuggled fuel’ seized in Persian Gulf – Iran’s Revolutionary Guards


    Iran’s Revolutionary Guards have seized a “foreign vessel,” saying it was “smuggling” one million barrels of fuel, the Islamic Republic’s media reported. It comes amid Tehran’s quarrel with London over a seized tanker. The tanker was intercepted by the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) near Larak Island in the Strait of Hormuz off Iran’s coast, the bottleneck point for maritime traffic from the Persian Gulf. According to a statement aired by Iranian state TV, the ship was seized on July 14. The IRGC would not provide details about ownership of the vessel. wrote:

    https://www.rt.com/news/464461-iran-seizes-foreign-vessel/

    Developing story. Stay tuned and hooked.

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:54 pm

    Iran using fast attack boats in Persian Gulf
    Houthis are operating as Iran’s proxy to pose a threat to tankers and ships in key waterway

    https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/07/article/iran-using-fast-attack-boats-in-persian-gulf/
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:20 pm

    Got your attention? Why Iranian oil? Maybe because no security on Tanker, like UK flagged Tanker. So when captured no risk of loss of life. Since SAS, 42 squadron are stupid, and may die for Queen and Country! And start war in process. Still, this is not English flag Tanker, not carrying oil to UK. So UK, may not be forced to release Iranian Tanker. It brings pressure. But is it enough? To lift blockade? I doubt it. The English may release Iranian Tanker to go back to Iran. But blockade will remain. In all this incidents of Tankers being hit or taken, the price of crude has changed little, from 63 to 67 Dollars. Hardly a crisis , because of a surplus of oil in market, more severe disruptions are needed to have a political effect. Like total shutdown of oil from Saudi / UAE to England and USA or even other European country. This should ideally be done when Iran has a nuke detterent. Acting in a step by step manner, giving ultimatums has disadvantage of allowing the enemy to start a conventional war. But events have a momentum of their own.

    I have always maintained an immediate and proportional response. This idea exists in law. I understand a gradual step by step escalation. Leaving the other side a way out. But all this depends on some assumptions. The main one is that we assume the two sides are equally matched. And perceive each other so. That they equally share risks and benefits. Like two individuals in face to face fight. But in this case we are not dealing with equals. Risks and benefits are not shared equally. Under this conditions, the weaker side, should if cornered, act with full force to release itself. Since a stand off and more limited application of force, will not compel the other side to retreat.

    What you need is nuke test. Near enough to singe  Bolton's moustache. And give Pompeo a sun burn, so he looks orange like Trump . Then total shut down to England first then Europe if needed. Then orange Trump turns into red Trump.

    https://www.tasnimnews.com/en

    This claim by Trump is either true or false. In both cases, a denial by Iran indicates that they prefer NOT to go to war NOW.  And it also indicates that the yanks prefer to go to war NOW. This adds to my argument that a gradual escalation by Iran, and giving time and ultimatums, will not give positive results for Iran, regarding the lifting of blockade. All to do with perceived strength of one side, and potential benefits to go to a conventional war.

    https://en.farsnews.com/player.aspx?nn=13980428000644

    Here, the claim by Trump, even if false, is far more important than claim by Iran, even if true.


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    ATLASCUB

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    Post  ATLASCUB on Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:32 pm

    Invoking DJKhaled:

    Another one!

    2 for 2.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:50 pm

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/07/19/british-oil-tanker-reportedly-seized-by-iranian-forces.html

    So now,  we stand corrected. The English can keep Grace 1. We keep all the rest! Now what is Hilarious Benn MP, son of Godzilla Tony Benn MP (RIP), is going to advise? Looks like his advice of British frigate escorts for Tankers did not work?
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    Post  Vann7 on Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:29 am

    nomadski wrote:https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/07/19/british-oil-tanker-reportedly-seized-by-iranian-forces.html

    So now,  we stand corrected. The English can keep Grace 1. We keep all the rest! Now what is Hilarious Benn MP, son of Godzilla Tony Benn MP (RIP), is going to advise? Looks like his advice of British frigate escorts for Tankers did not work?


    Yeah this is really an embarrassing moment for Britain.. because they now have only
    2 options.. war with IRAN or retreat and look weak and return Iranian tanker in change
    for Iran releasing theirs.. British Government created this.. they are the only ones to
    blame.. they behave as Owners of the planet ,as if they can do whatever thing they want..
    and ignore international laws... now they know... their hostile actions will have consequences..

    Russia could learn a lot of things from IRAN.. The west respect force.. when is used..
    and the polite president hopefully will grow some balls.. and stop being polite with those
    that attack Russia military base.. Im sure that british GOV will try to negotiate behind the scene for the release of their tanker and will trade it with the one they illegally arrested..

    Now what is needed is for Canada to bite the dust too.. they arrested Huawei economic officer and someone needs to teach a lesson to trudeau for his crime of kidnapping a major important business women from China.
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    Post  nomadski on Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:50 am

    @Vann7

    This Iranian Tanker capture, may be enough to help release Iranian Tanker to Syria or Iran. But I doubt if it is enough to remove blockade. So to do that, much more needs to be done. I think long road ahead. Sure agree that harder politics is needed than present soft politics. The Iranians from start made mistakes with defence. They did not use chemical weapons against Saddam. This resulted in countless victims on Iranian side. They did not make ICBM.  They did not make nuke warhead. They allowed defence to be influenced by economics. Or politics. Or excessive moralisms. They gave too much away in JCPOA deal. Gave ten Tons. Poured concrete. They gave opportunity for attack  by yank and Co by giving ultimatums. Giving time. Once they change direction  and harden up, then situation will change for them.
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    Post  Vann7 on Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:58 am

    nomadski wrote:https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/07/19/british-oil-tanker-reportedly-seized-by-iranian-forces.html

    So now,  we stand corrected. The English can keep Grace 1. We keep all the rest! Now what is Hilarious Benn MP, son of Godzilla Tony Benn MP (RIP), is going to advise? Looks like his advice of British frigate escorts for Tankers did not work?


    Yeah this is really an embarrassing moment for Britain.. because they now have only
    2 options.. war with IRAN or retreat and look weak and return Iranian tanker in change
    for Iran releasing theirs.. British Government created this.. they are the only ones to
    blame.. they behave as Owners of the planet ,as if they can do whatever thing they want..
    and ignore international laws... now they know... their hostile actions will have consequences..

    Russia could learn a lot of things from IRAN.. The west respect force.. when is used..
    and the polite president hopefully will grow some balls.. and stop being polite with those
    that attack Russia military base.. Im sure that british GOV will try to negotiate behind the scene for the release of their tanker and will trade it with the one they illegally arrested..

    Now what is needed is for Canada to bite the dust too.. they arrested Huawei economic officer and someone needs to teach a lesson to trudeau for his crime of kidnapping a major important business women from China.
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    Post  yavar on Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:43 am






    Iran IRGC releases footage ‘proving US did not shoot down drone‘


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    Post  yavar on Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:40 am

    Iran IRGCN sized England Stena Impero oil Tanker

    IRGC says captures British oil tanker in Strait of Hormuz
    https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2019/07/19/601353/Iran-IRGC-British-oil-tanker-strait-of-Hormuz


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    Post  nomadski on Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:34 am

    Iran should move crew of captured oil Tanker to shore to safe location, and make sure the oil Tanker can not move by starting engine. They should put Takavar on Tanker, to stop rescue mission like Tabas. By SAS Bucks! Armed guard to be put  on Tanker . Full equipment and  night vision with close quarter fighting to take them down.


    Last edited by nomadski on Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:44 am

    The issue here is that the UK under US orders stopped an Iranian tanker based on EU laws regarding Iranian oil distribution... laws to which the Iranian tankers are not actually bound, so the solution is for Iran to pass some Iranian laws regarding something that bothers them morally regarding the UK... perhaps the illegal detention of Julian Assange, so that any UK ships passing Iranian waters can be captured and seized until Assange is released... or they could make the law about anything else they want... the illegal EU support for CIA rendition sites and illegal torture of prisoners in Guantanimo... the illegal occupation of Syrian territory by US, UK, French, whatever forces... the number of laws they could pass is enormous...

    Any vessel they do capture should have scuttling charges placed on board and any oil cargo removed for safety reasons...
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    Post  nomadski on Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:00 am

    @ GarryB

    "......... Any vessel they do capture should have scuttling charges placed on board and any oil cargo removed for safety reasons........."

    Agree. The SAS may call! Like they did to me this morning. By putting a calling card through my post ! They think they  can intimidate! I think Iranians should now be ready to face resistance , when they take more English vessels. As far as reason............ I think they should give reason as  "..... The English ships look ugly ! ". Seriously.!

    But the charges should be anti - personnel also, on the ship. They don't know where these charges are. But our boys know. If they try to retake ship, they loose their big toe! As far as sinking the ship, they should not sink ship in Iran port. But in  Saudi or Emarati port. Make Tanker into drone Tanker and drive into their port and sink it there. Simply closing Persian Gulf to their  oil. No life lost. Takes many months, if at all to refloat Tanker from shallow port. QED.

    Looks like the Frigate Montrose, kept it's distance and  " failed" to stop the capture of oil Tanker.!  Very good . No loss of life and puts the ball back into court of politicians in  UK, to sort problem out.. The English forces must now also fail a couple more times, so a few more Tankers captured, without loss of life. Then problem solved without war or incident.


    https://en.irna.ir/news/83403988/IRGC-British-tanker-escorted-by-British-warship

    The official noted, "Contrary to maritime rules and regulations, the British tanker switched off its GPS device and instead of moving towards the entrance of the Persian Gulf in the Strait of Hormuz, it was entering from the exit route in the south, which after, and even the resistance and interference of the warship of the British Royal Navy, the flights of two helicopters and attempt to stop the IRGC's commandos from conducting their mission, was stopped by the decisiveness and speed of the Iranian forces and it was guided to the coastal harbor for legal investigations and measures.”


    Last edited by nomadski on Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:14 pm; edited 4 times in total
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    Post  yavar on Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:44 pm

    Iran footage | England Stena Impero oil tanker seizure operation by the IRGC Naval Ranger

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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:51 am

    Well the thing is that you could hide quite enormous explosive charges in a ship the size of an oil tanker... you could hide them inside the ships own fuel tank for instance and set it off when it is at sea for instance... or when it arrives at a certain GPS location...

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