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    Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:02 pm

    I think you have zero idea about concept of necessity and need when of use.  Zvezda was also tasked in upgrading/working on existing nuclear subs as well.  If they have to hold back development for need of the government, then they will.

    funny too, that I said they can and even you admit that they have the ability and slipway to do it yet you call me the stupid one. You clearly are a liar.  Go walk in the syrian desert you claimed you were in Laughing  Go read GarryB's post btw.


    Last edited by miketheterrible on Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:07 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Welcome to shipbuilding, The loss of PTD-50 was large for Russia.

    If it was such a loss, then they can build another four of them... two in Russia and give the contracts for the other two to South Korea and China... PTD-50 wasn't made in Russia and there is no reason why its replacements need to be, but it would be useful work for a Russian shipyard to build nonetheless.

    I seem to remember the PTD-50 was made in Sweden in the 1980s or something, so it is time to build a new one anyway.


    The problem is this would require 2-3 years min to have the new one + 2-3 years for Kuz to repair. What makes it questionable investment. So for Kuz this might be actually a death sentence.

    And shipyard could be only in Russia or China.



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    Post  miketheterrible Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:13 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    Welcome to shipbuilding, The loss of PTD-50 was large for Russia.

    If it was such a loss, then they can build another four of them... two in Russia and give the contracts for the other two to South Korea and China... PTD-50 wasn't made in Russia and there is no reason why its replacements need to be, but it would be useful work for a Russian shipyard to build nonetheless.

    I seem to remember the PTD-50 was made in Sweden in the 1980s or something, so it is time to build a new one anyway.


    The problem is this would require 2-3 years min to have the new one + 2-3 years for Kuz to repair.  What makes it questionable investment. So for Kuz this might be actually a death sentence.

    And shipyard could be only in Russia or China.




    If Russian government doesn't want to withhold development of some LNG tankers at Zvezda to repair Kuznetsov, then the next two other options are expanding existing docks at other sites or obtain a floating dock. If China can do it within a good time frame than what Russia can do (which they can) then they may end up buying from China. So far, things have been hush hush.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:32 pm

    Tankers to export LNG and petrol are a higher priority than kuznetsov for Russia.

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    Post  miketheterrible Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:34 pm

    Isos wrote:Tankers to export LNG and petrol are a higher priority than kuznetsov for Russia.


    They are indeed. It is just saying though that if the need is there, then they can. Currently, LNG export is actually gaining more traction than even some of their pipeline projects so yes, there is high priority for that.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:12 pm

    in short we need to live to see lol1 lol1 lol1
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:29 pm

    Thanks to new US sanctions on Iran petrol and gas will increase.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/04/23/opinions/big-winner-from-trumps-iran-oil-boycott-russia-andelman/index.html

    In hard dollar terms, the impact is even more apparent. With Russia producing some 11 million barrels of oil a day, each dollar increase in the price per barrel of crude oil adds at least $4 billion to the Russian economy each year

    1 billion $ for upgarding a shipyard to be able to build a carrier. And 3 other for the carrier building.

    Sell the Kuznetsov to India for 300 million $ and invest in su-57k.

    All thanks to Trump. Very Happy
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:49 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:I think you have zero idea about concept of necessity and need when of use.  Zvezda was also tasked in upgrading/working on existing nuclear subs as well.  If they have to hold back development for need of the government, then they will.

    funny too, that I said they can and even you admit that they have the ability and slipway to do it yet you call me the stupid one. You clearly are a liar.  Go walk in the syrian desert you claimed you were in Laughing  Go read GarryB's post btw.

    I don't think they do not, has they haven't moved the carrier to that area to work on it. WHY because the slipways they would need to work on it aren't operational as of now and WHEN they are those slots are going to LNG tankers back to back orders of them, the Kuz would not be able to use those docks for years and years. Those LNG Tankers are far more important to the Russians than the kuz is

    So save your crap, I didn't call you stupid first nor did I call you stupid because I said they "can't do that", actually no they can't use Zveasda to fix the Kuz because the dry docks for a ship of that size aren't ready yet and won't be for a while yet.

    So yeah they can't work on it in that shipyard. Not yet anyways.

    I called you stupid in response and the fact you are wonderful ignorant with shipbuilding and keep preaching about something that isn't going to happen, "Zvesda can fix it" No they can't no slipway big enough that is operational and they aren't going to hold off building the LNG tankers for years and years over it, So be satly all you want.

    Blame the workers who nearly sunk the thing and the dock russia needed for it.


    Last edited by SeigSoloyvov on Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:52 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    Welcome to shipbuilding, The loss of PTD-50 was large for Russia.

    If it was such a loss, then they can build another four of them... two in Russia and give the contracts for the other two to South Korea and China... PTD-50 wasn't made in Russia and there is no reason why its replacements need to be, but it would be useful work for a Russian shipyard to build nonetheless.

    I seem to remember the PTD-50 was made in Sweden in the 1980s or something, so it is time to build a new one anyway.


    The problem is this would require 2-3 years min to have the new one + 2-3 years for Kuz to repair.  What makes it questionable investment. So for Kuz this might be actually a death sentence.

    And shipyard could be only in Russia or China.




    I mean asking the SK's to do it is the way to go they could get it done in a year, If I was Russia I would order a few from SK now.

    That they would be done quickly and to a higher quality then what the Russians could do, I mean hey it's SK. They are the kings at Shipbuilding no shame paying for them to make you floating docks.

    One can say unless the Russians figure something out and fast, The kuz is dead.

    They have perhaps one area that can get it out of the water but they would need to tow her and for a very very long trip. Which is a very big problem since if a cable snaps or something goes wrong they could easily lose the ship.

    Kuz is in pretty deep trouble right now and they aren't sure what to do about it.
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    Post  Guest Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:49 pm

    I love how people presume Russians can build such a large floating dock replacement in some quick run. Fun fact, they never made anything of such scale in that field. Its like you expect from Serbian Yugoimport and TRZ Čačak to suddenly start producing tanks. We dont know jack shit about tanks anymore, we can repair them relying on 10 countries to provide spares. Beside wish to do something you need means and will.

    As i said before there is a reason why even USSR was bying ships in Sweden and Japan, and maritime tooling. Because there were, are and will be better. There is reason for an example why India is buying T-90MS over additional procurement of local junk they call a tank. Its available, its working, its better and cheaper than what you have, and you can have it soon.

    I am not sure why people on this forum are so stubborn at defending some weird imaginary capabilities of Russia in fields it does not deserve tbh. Fyi company i currently work in is making hydraulic pistons and rings for both Ukrainian and Russian defence companies, reason, they both suck at making it properly. This company bought the know-how back in 80s from Sweden, still uses German and Swedish machines from 80s and 90s and still does it better than Russians on new Yamazaki CNCs.

    So spare us about legendary shipbuilding feats its silly.
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:52 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    I mean asking the SK's to do it is the way to go they could get it done in a year, If I was Russia I would order a few from SK now.

    technically you're right. Thought politically SK would stop at any time if US would order to


    SeigS wrote:
    One can say unless the Russians figure something out and fast, The kuz is dead.

    They have perhaps one area that can get it out of the water but they would need to tow her and for a very very long trip. Which is a very big problem since if a cable snaps or something goes wrong they could easily lose the ship.

    Kuz is in pretty deep trouble right now and they aren't sure what to do about it.

    True, I hope thought MoD can find the way to save Kuz...Would be a pity to loose only CV for a time being.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:02 am

    Militarov wrote:
    I am not sure why people on this forum are so stubborn at defending some weird imaginary capabilities of Russia in fields it does not deserve tbh. Fyi company i currently work in is making hydraulic pistons and rings for both Ukrainian and Russian defence companies, reason, they both suck at making it properly. This company bought the know-how back in 80s from Sweden, still uses German and Swedish machines from 80s and 90s and still does it better than Russians on new Yamazaki CNCs.

    So spare us about legendary shipbuilding feats its silly.

    I agree with docks, however now nobody would sell a dock to Russia - US would just stop transaction pressing on Japan/Sweden.

    As for hydraulics, I would not go that far. Your products might be good quality, proven and used in legacy designs with competitive pricing. But please dont tell me Russians cannot build new designs n0r use new tech.
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    Post  Guest Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:13 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    I am not sure why people on this forum are so stubborn at defending some weird imaginary capabilities of Russia in fields it does not deserve tbh. Fyi company i currently work in is making hydraulic pistons and rings for both Ukrainian and Russian defence companies, reason, they both suck at making it properly. This company bought the know-how back in 80s from Sweden, still uses German and Swedish machines from 80s and 90s and still does it better than Russians on new Yamazaki CNCs.

    So spare us about legendary shipbuilding feats its silly.

    I agree with docks, however now nobody would sell a dock to Russia - US would just stop transaction pressing on Japan/Sweden.

    As for hydraulics, I would not go that far.  Your products might be  good quality, proven and used  in legacy designs with competitive  pricing.  But please dont tell me  Russians cannot build new designs  n0r use new tech.

    No jokes here, Russian company that applied for same tender lost due to QC issues and higher price than us, and they procured whole new machining line in last 3 years from SK and Japan. Chinese company that applied too lost due to subpair materials used. We use steel rolled in Slovenia.

    China most likely would deliver dock, i dont see why not. South Korea most likely would too, as floating dry dock is not military exclusive tech i dont think US would react there, but you never know.

    EDIT:

    Previous company that was supplying same parts was from Netherlands.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:46 am

    Isos wrote:
    1 billion $ for upgarding a shipyard to be able to build a carrier. And 3 other for the carrier building.  

    Sell the Kuznetsov to India for 300 million $ and invest in su-57k.

    All thanks to Trump. Very Happy


    earning more moneys is great but keeping Iran and Venezuela out of US reach has even more value.
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    Post  Big_Gazza Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:54 am

    This place continues to degenerate with endless fuktardishness from people who really should know better...

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    The problem is this would require 2-3 years min to have the new one + 2-3 years for Kuz to repair.  What makes it questionable investment. So for Kuz this might be actually a death sentence.

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    One can say unless the Russians figure something out and fast, The kuz is dead.

    Kuz is in pretty deep trouble right now and they aren't sure what to do about it.

    Isos wrote:Sell the Kuznetsov to India for 300 million $ and invest in su-57k

    Wow.... it really is amateur hour here at RDF. So many have caught the Chicken-Little disease.  Maybe the forum has suffered a bio-weapon attack?  Laughing

    On a note of real-world-ism, does anyone have a real and factual account of the Kuz conditions and what remains to be completed below the waterline?  Not interested in ill-informed opinions of idiots who know fuck-all and just make up shit, I mean actual legitimate info from people who are involved or have seen the vessel with their own Mk1 eyeballs?

    Photo taken 12-Apr-2019 of the K at Murmansk.  She's not just sitting idle awaiting the executioners axe....  Some lifts are clearly under way, though replacement radar still to be installed to top of mast.

    Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News - Page 17 17-7412273-1552734498

    Another image from similar timeframe (previously posted by verkhoturye51), seems to show replacement of the deck coatings.  This could be part of the general repair program, but could also be linked to repair of damage from the lay-down of the PD-50 crane.

    Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News - Page 17 Kuznet10
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:44 am

    That is just surface level work, They cannot fix the engines at that dock yes call people names when you don't have the idea, YOU DO REALIZE THE PROPULSION IS STILL FUCKED.

    They need to get the entire ship out of the water to fix that.

    I swear, really ignorance is ignorance.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:49 am

    Militarov wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    I am not sure why people on this forum are so stubborn at defending some weird imaginary capabilities of Russia in fields it does not deserve tbh. Fyi company i currently work in is making hydraulic pistons and rings for both Ukrainian and Russian defence companies, reason, they both suck at making it properly. This company bought the know-how back in 80s from Sweden, still uses German and Swedish machines from 80s and 90s and still does it better than Russians on new Yamazaki CNCs.

    So spare us about legendary shipbuilding feats its silly.

    I agree with docks, however now nobody would sell a dock to Russia - US would just stop transaction pressing on Japan/Sweden.

    As for hydraulics, I would not go that far.  Your products might be  good quality, proven and used  in legacy designs with competitive  pricing.  But please dont tell me  Russians cannot build new designs  n0r use new tech.

    No jokes here, Russian company that applied for same tender lost due to QC issues and higher price than us, and they procured whole new machining line in last 3 years from SK and Japan. Chinese company that applied too lost due to subpair materials used. We use steel rolled in Slovenia.

    China most likely would deliver dock, i dont see why not. South Korea most likely would too, as floating dry dock is not military exclusive tech i dont think US would react there, but you never know.

    EDIT:

    Previous company that was supplying same parts was from Netherlands.

    Oh nyu you said Russia lost a contract due to QC and time? you NATO TROLL, being serious yes. People here love to pretend Russia has some feats and ability in shipbuilding it doesn't, then acts like childern when someone says otherwise.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:18 am

    Btw, a floating dock for Zvezda was produced at the Chinese shipyard Qingdao Beihai Shipbuilding Heavy Industry Co., Ltd. (BSIC).

    They could ask for a couple of bigger floating dry docks there.

    http://www.sskzvezda.ru/index.php/en/project/snabjenets/9-news-en/193-unique-40-000-ton-lifting-capacity-floating-dock-delivered-on-zvezda-shipyard
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:43 am

    That floating docks max capacity is 40k tons Kuz weighs the lightest 45k tons.

    So that Floating Dock is too small.

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    Post  GarryB Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:33 am

    Zvezda only has a few docks that could handle a ship like the Kuz you think every slipway can fit that carrier? LOL please, The more you talk the more you show me you don't know jack about what your peaching

    And why do you think it got funding for all the upgrades to build bigger vessels... including nuclear propelled vessels... they were designed specifically to build carriers and larger cruisers for the Russian Navy, that was the purpose of paying South Korea all that money.

    I would suggest that there will be several slipways able to handle large 300+m long ships... the place is expected to build large LNG and crude oil tankers afterall...

    Tankers to export LNG and petrol are a higher priority than kuznetsov for Russia.

    And if the US decides to blockade Venezuela how many LNG tankers will it take to break that blockade?

    And when US companies take over Venezuelan oil resources and start pumping crude and the value of oil drops to $5 a barrel how many of those crude oil tankers will Russia be building?

    Sell the Kuznetsov to India for 300 million $ and invest in su-57k.

    Why would they do something that stupid?

    How could they get a platform that can carry 24 Su-33s or 24 MiG-29KRs anywhere on the planet for that price to replace what the K can do for them?

    Blame the workers who nearly sunk the thing and the dock russia needed for it.

    The floating dock that sank was a worn out unreliable piece of crap anyway... they could do with buying new ones to replace them anyway.

    The South Koreans or Chinese should be able to crank a couple out for them in no time and they could also do with the practise of making a few themselves...

    That they would be done quickly and to a higher quality then what the Russians could do, I mean hey it's SK. They are the kings at Shipbuilding no shame paying for them to make you floating docks.

    They have already paid them to upgrade and modify the Zvezda shipyard...

    One can say unless the Russians figure something out and fast, The kuz is dead.

    They need to rename it Lazarus for the number of times western experts have claimed its days are numbered... but it never seems to die, simply because those experts neglect to take in to account that even just tied to a pier it offers training opportunities that the alternative of nothing does not.

    As i said before there is a reason why even USSR was bying ships in Sweden and Japan, and maritime tooling.

    Yes, of course... if there is something that demands respect it is Swedish SSBNs and Japanese fighter planes.

    Perhaps it is time to invest in Russian yards instead of buying from foreign countries... Russia has never made a Stealth fighter before but its first attempt looks pretty damn good and certainly better than Swedens effort.

    No jokes here, Russian company that applied for same tender lost due to QC issues and higher price than us, and they procured whole new machining line in last 3 years from SK and Japan. Chinese company that applied too lost due to subpair materials used. We use steel rolled in Slovenia.

    Oh grow up... you out priced a Russian company, that does not mean they can't make it themselves... clearly it proves they actually can.

    It is a floating dock, not a space capsule for a rocket ship... they could wield a couple together and get the capacity they need.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:34 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:That floating docks max capacity is 40k tons Kuz weighs the lightest 45k tons.

    So that Floating Dock is too small.

    Where did I say that they will use that?

    I just said that they can order a bigger drydock (with a larger capacity) from the same shipyard that last year delivered a drydock to Zvezda
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:37 am

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:That floating docks max capacity is 40k tons Kuz weighs the lightest 45k tons.

    So that Floating Dock is too small.

    Where did I say that they will use that?

    I just said that they can order a bigger drydock (with a larger capacity) from the same shipyard that last year delivered a drydock to Zvezda

    My bad then thought you implied they could use that.

    But yes you are 100 percent right and that is the WAY to go, order some through SK it will get done faster and better then what Russia could do. There is no reason not to do this unless Russia cannot afford it, they could always make some on their own later, but they need some NOW.


    Last edited by SeigSoloyvov on Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:44 am

    @Garry

    Yes Zvesda will have docks that could fit the could but again the docks aren't ready for use yet and won't be until the early 2020's, the finishing date for the upgrade is supposed to be 2022 or 2024.

    However, its space for ships of that size are limited it doesn't go past four for a ship of that size.

    I think it would only have 2-3 slots for a ship the size of Kuz and those spots are going to be occupied for years to come, Also for the DD's there is no plans to build them at that shipyard, there are what two shipyards sides Zvesda that have docks capable of making ships of that tonnage which is under 20k.

    The carrier will be built at Zvesda but not the DD's those will be constructed elsewhere again Zvesda has limited space.
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    Post  Big_Gazza Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:05 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:That is just surface level work, They cannot fix the engines at that dock yes call people names when you don't have the idea, YOU DO REALIZE THE PROPULSION IS STILL FUCKED.

    They need to get the entire ship out of the water to fix that.

    I swear, really ignorance is ignorance.

    I thought I had been quite clear. "Not interested in ill-informed opinions of idiots who know fuck-all and just make up shit"

    FYI the faulty boilers have been replaced already.  Tell me, if the propulsion system is "still fucked" and works have been suspended due to PD-50 sinking, where are the entries cut into the hull and/or deck to permit access to engine rooms and machinery spaces???

    There aren't any...  cuz they've been re-closed after completion of the heavy lifts and install work. Ongoing works are internal, piping and electrical hook-ups, equipment upgrades and testing.

    FFS, the work below the waterline was COMPLETE before they started the move from the PD-50......

    Buddy, you must be the most incompetent propagandist in this forum...   pwnd
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News - Page 17 Empty Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:33 pm

    Looking for info on vladivostok shipyard, I found this old article from 2009.

    To which shipyard they are referring to? It cannot have been zvezda, since it is in balshoy kamen.

    Is this this one?
    http://vostokraffles.ru/about/ and if so, is it related to Zvezda?


    http://www.turkishmaritime.com.tr/mobi/new-shipyard-in-vladivostok-3384h.htm

    Russia and China are set to sign an agreement on building a large shipyard in the city of Vladivostok.
    New shipyard in Vladivostok

    16 October 2009 Friday 12:31

    Russia and China are set to sign an agreement on building a large shipyard in the city of Vladivostok.

    Russia and China are set to sign an agreement on building a large shipyard in the city of Vladivostok. $200m is expected to be spent on the yard, which sees Yantai Raffles of China and United Shipbuilding Corporation of Russia coming together. Yantai Raffles, founded by Singaporean Brian Cheng, was taken over recently by CIMC, the world"s largest container manufacturer. Yantai Raffles is an offshore specialist, based at the northern tip of Shandong province. Its yard contains the world"s largest gantry crane, the 20,000 t Taisun.

    Russian shipbuilders are anxious to climb the technology ladder and a number of agreements have been signed between local and leading Korean yards. The signing is the first between China and Russia.


    Are there other shipyards in the far east that can build big ships? I read that vostochnoya verf in Vladivostok received an order for 22800 small corvette/missile ship, but it is a small ship. Can they only cope with low tonnage ships? In its russian wiki page it was written
    google translate wrote:
    By the end of 2013, the complete computerization of the enterprise was completed. The capacity of the enterprise allows building ships and ships with a displacement of up to 2.5 thousand tons

    In addition in Vladivostok there is the ship repair center dalzavod that was planned to be modernised to be able to repair mistral class helicopter carrier.
    Dalzavod ship repair center will specialize in the repair of surface ships and submarines. As part of the modernization, a dry dock will be reconstructed, a Varshavyanka-type submarine repair center will be created, a repair quay for universal landing ships of the Mistral type will be built [4] . Construction of a slipway and synchrolift with a capacity of 5,000 tons, commissioning of a floating dock with a capacity of 35,600 tons, construction of a shelter for year-round operation over dry dock No. 1 is envisaged. The reconstruction program is designed for 15 years (2012–2027), the investment in the first 5 years will be 13 billion rubles.
    has this been done?. Apparently they are using yo upgrade udaloy class destroyers...

    https://sputniknews.com/russia/201802161061716699-russia-pacific-navy-destroyer-fire/

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