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87 posters

    Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Rodion_Romanovic
    Rodion_Romanovic


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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Fri Dec 29, 2023 8:03 am

    mnztr wrote:
    George1 wrote:Pella wants through the court to extend the deadline for the delivery of three small missile ships of Project 22800 until 2030

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4784589.html

    Its a shame what has happened Pella seems like a really tight operation but they are being disrupted by other companies.. at least that is my impression. They got those first ships built really fast and quickly accepted.

    Some of the problems with Pella possibly were also related to their acquisition of a shipyard in Hamburg, Germany in order to build larger displacement ships and their won tender for diesel Icebreaker.

    They won a tender to build a project 21900M2 diesel Icebreaker (displacement more than 14000 tons), but there were problems with the construction and with the german shipyard.

    The order was given also to foreign shipyards due to the high loading of russian specialised shipyards like Vyborg and Baltic shipyards which would have not allowed the building for several more years (even if there were also opinions to delay such tender instead)

    (Another icebreaker of this class was build in Helsinki between 2012 and 2015)


    https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5028328

    Newspaper "Kommersant" No. 184/P dated 10/11/2021, page 9


    After several auctions for which no applications were submitted, the initial maximum contract price was increased from 7.3 billion to 10.5 billion rubles. It is also unclear whether Rosmorport will receive on time - in 2024 - the first 18 MW icebreaker, which was laid down in November 2020 at the Pella shipyard in Hamburg. The Pella Sietas shipyard is experiencing serious financial difficulties, is under external management, and work on orders has not been carried out for more than six months ( see Kommersant on August 30 ). At the same time, the St. Petersburg Arbitration Court at the end of September stopped proceedings on bankruptcy claims against the parent Pella. Whether Pella Sietas will also be able to avoid bankruptcy is still unknown.

    I believe it should not be allowed the possibility of giving Russian company the possibility to compete for state tenders relying on foreign shipyards.

    If an order is to be given abroad it is not ideal but can be acceptable in some cases, but having a Russian company acting as "middleman" or managing a shipyard abroad is just a recipe for disaster.

    Such ships in the future could be also built in the Zaliv shipyard in Kerch or even in  Kherson or Nikolaev, once the shipyards there are rebuilt after the SMO.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Dec 29, 2023 9:04 am

    Well Turkey and India and China have not imposed western sanctions on Russia so civilian ships needing to be built could go to shipyards in those countries with careful oversight...

    How the mighty have fallen... is my memory bad or were some claiming all Russian shipyards were terrible except the privately owned and run Pella who was working miracles... why can't they manage all Russian shipyards...

    No doubt Pella took on some risk to get orders and they didn't assess the risk accurately enough... even shipyards who are not in countries with western sanctions imposed on them have problems.

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri Dec 29, 2023 9:25 am

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:

    Such ships in the future could be also built in the Zaliv shipyard in Kerch or even in  Kherson or Nikolaev, once the shipyards there are rebuilt after the SMO.

    Zaliv is already active and may very soon even be tasked with building Pr.22350 frigates for the Black Sea?

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Fri Dec 29, 2023 10:18 am

    GarryB wrote:Well Turkey and India and China have not imposed western sanctions on Russia so civilian ships needing to be built could go to shipyards in those countries with careful oversight...

    How the mighty have fallen... is my memory bad or were some claiming all Russian shipyards were terrible except the privately owned and run Pella who was working miracles... why can't they manage all Russian shipyards...

    No doubt Pella took on some risk to get orders and they didn't assess the risk accurately enough... even shipyards who are not in countries with western sanctions imposed on them have problems.
    Yes but that is the point. Germany already put sanctions against Russia since 2014, even if not yet for the civilian products. It was only matter of time.


    Mir wrote:Zaliv is already active and may very soon even be tasked with building Pr.22350 frigates for the Black Sea?
    I meant more about ice class civilian ships in this case. But yes. In the past Zaliv has built Project 1135 krivak class frigates for Soviet navy and coast guard from 1968 to 1992.  It would be nice if they could build also 22350 or at least 20380 corvettes there. Especially because they probably do not need to use the large drydocks but only the boathouses and smaller slipways to build frigates leaving the drydocks for large ships.

    In the large drydocks Zaliv shipyard once built also the massive nuclear powered cargo ship Sevmorput.

    At the moment they are building there the large helicopter carriers. I would love to see further ships of this class being built in the black sea shipyard in Nikolaev, freeing the drydocks in Kerch for large civilian ships.

    Kherson Shipyard once was also able to build ships up to 40000 tons displacement.
    I am sure after the SMO it would be of a lot of interest for bulk carriers, icebreakers, etc, maybe initially under management of either Vyborg or Baltic shipyard.

    Okean shipyard (south of the city of Nikolaev) is also a premium location to be rebuilt for large and very large civilian ships.

    All money that would be needed to build civilian ships abroad (even if in non hostile countries) can be used to finance reconstruction of those Novorossian shipyards (both for civilian and for military ships) that country 404 did let go derelict.

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    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Sat Jul 13, 2024 5:17 am

    We can probably forget about the nuclear battlecruisers.

    The Baltic Plant received a record loss at the end of 2023
    July 10, 2024

    The St. Petersburg Baltic Shipyard (part of the United Shipbuilding Corporation, USC) announced a record loss for 2023. As Business Petersburg reports with reference to the enterprise’s reporting, it amounted to 18.9 billion rubles. At the same time, revenue for the same period increased to 21.1 billion rubles (by 7%).

    “The main loss was due to the delivery of planned unprofitable orders: the first and second serial universal nuclear icebreakers (UAL) of project 22220 (Siberia, Ural)”, the report of Baltic Plant JSC says. The company's uncovered loss at the end of last year amounted to 35.8 billion rubles due to negative financial results in 2021 and 2023.

    It is noted that the planned profitability of the Sibir icebreaker, the delivery of which was postponed from 2019 to 2021, came to naught due to the weakening of the ruble exchange rate, numerous adjustments to the technical design, the cost of work and other factors. The loss due to the construction of the Ural (its delivery was also postponed from 2020 to 2022) was recorded for similar reasons. RBC journalists turned to the Baltic Shipyard press service for clarification, but they refused to comment. The media wrote about the unprofitability of the Baltic Plant several years ago. In 2020, the USC enterprise increased its loss by 22% compared to 2019, to 7.9 billion rubles. The plant's revenue decreased by 8%, to 18.9 billion rubles. In the fall of 2023, VTB Bank received USC for management for five years. After this, the head of VTB, Andrei Kostin, in an interview with RBC, spoke about the need to rebuild the management of the corporation, which was ineffective at the time of the transfer, and to invest in upgrading production capacities. The new top management stopped the procedure for integrating the Baltic Plant into Rosatom. Andrei Kostin also announced the possible transfer of the Baltic Plant's facilities from St. Petersburg to another territory, for example, to Kronstadt. In May of this year, Kostin, in a conversation with reporters, confirmed plans to move some USC shipyards from the center of St. Petersburg to other locations. “Something will have to be brought out - there’s no getting away from it”, he noted.
    https://flotprom.ru/2024/%D0%91%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B49/

    Yikes. It looks like the Baltic shipyard is losing roughly $200 million USD on every nuclear icebreaker they make. The CEO got sacked and now VTB Bank wants to close the shipyard down and move it elsewhere. Even though they are basically the only shipbuilder in Russia which seems to build large ships quickly.

    It seems like the plan is to close down the shipyards near the center of St. Petersburg and move them elsewhere. Probably to resell their land for urban redevelopment. The thing is there is no "elsewhere" yet. We all know the shipyards in St. Petersburg have poor productivity as it is, but it is not like closing them down without an alternative will help things.

    I think the government needs to stop VTB Bank from doing something stupid with the shipyard. The nuclear icebreaker program is critical for Russia's economic development. Even if they are costing twice the price so what.

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    Post  Arrow Sat Jul 13, 2024 6:07 am

    Apart from the shipyard problems.  It is very doubtful that the VMF would acquire a nuclear-powered cruiser at all.  Let the construction of 22350M units begin.  These destroyers will be enough for VMF.

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