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66 posters

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #5

    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:07 am

    Su-57 is the next step. It took many years for T-10 to actually start to be produced even during Soviet times.  The airframe and what not is the future prospect.

    Right now, Russia hasn't made any real orders yet on any jet.  Only 32 or so for Su-30sm.  Why? Because they are waiting

    Tu-22M hit the ground hard due to shit landing due to poor visibility. This can be fixed with flir for all planes.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:18 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    And they still have the whole fleet streamlining to handle

    Streamline?

    Su-24s are supersonic...

    The fleet, not the aircraft... No
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:36 pm

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #5 - Page 14 244022
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:51 pm

    Without marks.

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #5 - Page 14 24425110
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:30 am

    This can be fixed with flir for all planes.

    You might mean thermal imaging cameras.. and even they wont detect wind shear or other wind related conditions.

    Radio beacon and auto landing systems are normally radar based which can be used in heavy rain and heavy snow situations at any temperature... unlike thermal systems.

    Interesting that the new Su-57 camo make it look like a light coloured Su-57 with some sort of flying wing directly below it with a twin underslung engine design setup...
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:42 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Su-24 is on it's way out because it's approaching it's expiration date, plain and simple

    The Su-24 managed to do a better job than the F-22 in dealing with ISIS in Syria and it did so at a mere fraction of the operational and ordinance costs... I would say it was actually the way of the future.

    The Su-34 is fixed wing so in the end should work out cheaper to operate and maintain but until they have a few more there is no urgent need to replace the Su-24 just yet.

    The problem here is Russian Armed Forces are not designed to mainly fight ISIS or terrorists with few AA capability and zero airforce... so personally I believe it is OK for Su-24 and Su-25 to be retired soon and to ramp up Su-27/30/34/35/37/57 to full the gap.

    I don't know it is OK for Russia to sell Su-24/25 to Vietnam bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce
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    Post  hoom Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:43 am

    I'm seeing suggestion elsewhere that the Okhotnik-B drone may be intended to operate cooperatively with Su-57 in mini-swarm type setup which is interesting.
    Apparently its sharing a bunch of components/electronics also.
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #5 - Page 14 5stpwqvb97c21
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:36 am

    The problem here is Russian Armed Forces are not designed to mainly fight ISIS or terrorists with few AA capability and zero airforce... so personally I believe it is OK for Su-24 and Su-25 to be retired soon and to ramp up Su-27/30/34/35/37/57 to full the gap.

    The Russian military has to be able to deal with a range of situations from small scale COIN ops through to WWIII... but if you want them to be equipped only to fight WWIII then they don't really need an air force... just increase the number of ICBMs they have and strategic cruise missile carriers and that will be enough.

    Strike and ground attack aircraft will remain useful and much more cost effective than a missile only attack capacity... not every target has a power air defence structure in place... even within NATO most NATO countries rely on their air forces to control the air rather than enormous numbers of capable air defence systems.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:56 am

    I'm curious about the Su-34 vs the Su-30SM. Su-30SM cleary has better air superiority ability of Su-34 but it also has very good air to ground and anti ship capabilities. If these are the cases, why not just use Su-30SM instead and have NAPO also license build them?
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:53 am

    miketheterrible wrote:I'm curious about the Su-34 vs the Su-30SM.  Su-30SM cleary has better air superiority ability of Su-34 but it also has very good air to ground and anti ship capabilities.  If these are the cases, why not just use Su-30SM instead and have NAPO also license build them?

    Su-34 came first. Su-30SM came after russian airforce saw su-30mki doing great job in india.

    And russian philosophy is to have bombers and fighters. They were never interested in just expensive multirole fighters. For one multi role fighter that will be used more often yoy can have one cheaper bomber and one cheaper fighter so in terms of number they will have more jets available.

    In operation the multi role fighter would be full with air to ground and air to air missile. With 1 bomber and 1 fighter you would have 2 jets in the air doig each one their specific job.



    Only small armies use multirole fighters really. Like for exemple rafale in french air force replace something like 5 jets. That's true in terms o jet's capabilities but also false since they have only 100 rafale supposed to replace 400 or 500 mirage, super etandard ... so if they loose one rafale its like losing 5 jet for them...
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:01 am

    GarryB wrote:
    This can be fixed with flir for all planes.

    You might mean thermal imaging cameras.. and even they wont detect wind shear or other wind related conditions.

    Radio beacon and auto landing systems are normally radar based which can be used in heavy rain and heavy snow situations at any temperature... unlike thermal systems.

    Interesting that the new Su-57 camo make it look like a light coloured Su-57 with some sort of flying wing directly below it with a twin underslung engine design setup...

    It is the silhouette/shape of Okhotnik.
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:06 am

    Think of the Su-34 as being an F-111 and the Su-30 as being the F-15E.

    The Su-30 is a good aircraft that can be a fighter or a strike aircraft, but in terms of performance the Su-34 is a strike aircraft first and foremost and has systems the Su-30 does not have... they simply would not fit.

    Also when you are flying a deep strike mission in the Su-34 you can stand up and stretch your legs... even go to a toilet or have some hot food... in the 30 you are strapped into your seat and no matter how comfortable it is after 3-4 hours it might not be so comfortable.

    Now a truck driver can drive a truck for 10 hours or more at a time and think nothing of it and I am sure there are pilots that could do the same... but in the Su-34 they don't have to.

    Also a very simple thing like communication... a rally car driver and his navigator sit side by side and communicate constantly using both hand signals and radio communications... it is easier to communicate accurately with someone you are sitting next to than someone in front that can't see you... even with radio communication...

    And don't underestimate the Su-34 in terms of its air to air capability... its radar is not that bad and it can carry plenty of missiles... it would certainly not be a great dogfighter, but with R-77 and R-73 missiles how much dogfighting would they need to do?

    In combat the Su-30 will mainly be air to air combat, while the Su-34 will be mainly strike missions but able to defend itself to the point where it does not really need dedicated escorts.

    Su-35s are multi role too... but Soviet experience tends to favour swing role aircraft... a MiG-21 or MiG-23 with a bomb and AAMs... flys in and drops its bomb and then climbs and provides air cover for the planes coming in next.

    The MiG design bureau offered multirole MiG-29SMT upgrades for years to the Russian AF... but they just wanted a short range interceptor because the guided air to ground munitions were too expensive so they didn't buy very many and the ones they did went to Su-24 units rather than frontal aviation which tended to use dumb bombs and rockets.

    Training generally didn't cover multi tasking either so the extra expensive of a more sophisticated multirole fighter was not interesting to the Air Force either.

    The Su-30 actually evolved from the PVO (air interception units) concept of using big aircraft with big radar as airborne mini AWACS type platforms where an Su-30 with its radar on scanning for enemy targets would operate with a group of MiG-29s or Su-27s with their radars off operating closer to the enemy positions.

    Enemy aircraft targets were handed to the closer flying radar silent MiGs and Flankers who would launch their missiles and then retire to rearm and refuel... the Su-30 would monitor the interception and mark the target for SARH missiles so as far as the enemy was concerned unless they used their own radar there was only one Su-30 there but it seemed to have an enormous number of missiles...

    India liked the idea of a two seater to share the workload, but the Russians actually preferred to automate a lot of that... so the Su-35 has sub 5th gen stuff to allow a single seat fighter/bomber.... good testing for stuff going into the Su-57.

    Su-30 is cheaper than an Su-34 for a reason... the Su-34 has more expensive more capable systems than the Su-30SM and is optimised for the strike role.

    For most export clients having a specialised strike aircraft is a big of an extravagance... only the US and major NATO countries could afford that sort of thing (F-111/F-15E, and Tornado).
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:36 am

    Sukhoi two-seater is a potential option for training, too. The teacher in one seat and the student in the other.
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    Post  Isos Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:58 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #5 - Page 14 244022

    You can see the sukhoi drone painted on the su-57 on the back under the star. Means they will be used by su-57 in the air.
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    Post  JohninMK Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:11 am

    Isos wrote:

    You can see the sukhoi drone painted on the su-57 on the back under the star. Means they will be used by su-57 in the air.

    Well spotted. Does the State or Sukhoi own that aircraft?
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    Post  franco Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:18 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    Isos wrote:

    You can see the sukhoi drone painted on the su-57 on the back under the star. Means they will be used by su-57 in the air.

    Well spotted. Does the State or Sukhoi own that aircraft?

    Sukhoi is owned by the state however if you mean the Ministry of Defense... they don't have Su-57's yet.
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    Post  LMFS Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:18 am

    higurashihougi wrote:Sukhoi two-seater is a potential option for training, too. The teacher in one seat and the student in the other.
    If you mean a two-seater Su-57, this is not likely IMHO, they have simulators, AI support plus full plane recoverability after stall. Pilots that reach Su-57 will be only the best of the best, so not likely to need nursing onboard. Given the intellectual support / high level of automation of the plane, no hint was given of a two-seater version being necessary, as the rest of 5G planes and as is logical to get as much performance as possible for the aircraft.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:50 am

    He is referring to the Su-30 as the Sukhoi two seater.

    5th gen fighters and the Su-35 seem to be single seater only and should be easier to fly than previous gen fighters... of course by the time you get to sit in an Su-35 or Su-57 you probably already flew half a dozen different aircraft types already...



    You can see the sukhoi drone painted on the su-57 on the back under the star. Means they will be used by su-57 in the air.

    They seem to be depicted riding the same lightning bolt... perhaps it is an unmanned Su-57 too? A testbed?
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:52 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    Isos wrote:

    You can see the sukhoi drone painted on the su-57 on the back under the star. Means they will be used by su-57 in the air.

    Well spotted. Does the State or Sukhoi own that aircraft?

    Thanks but I just saw that on twitter thumbsup
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    Post  dino00 Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:54 pm

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:16 pm

    https://mobile.twitter.com/warsmonitoring/status/1088198362992726016

    Okhotnik camouflage scheme on Su-57. Can someone post the pictures please.

    This plane will for sure be used for test su-57/Okhotnik dual use.
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    Post  dino00 Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:45 pm

    Isos wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/warsmonitoring/status/1088198362992726016

    Okhotnik camouflage scheme on Su-57. Can someone post the pictures please.

    This plane will for sure be used for test su-57/Okhotnik dual use.

    Post 331 thumbsup
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:42 am


    Rob Lee
    ‏ @RALee85
    4h4 hours ago

    9 years ago today, the T-50/Su-57 made its first flight.
    https://t.me/wingsofwar
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:53 am


    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #5 - Page 14 DyPKr-jX0AAjDaj?format=jpg&name=900x900
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:04 am

    WTF US needs repaint F-16 again? DAT is trolling lol1 ` lol1 lol1

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