Typhoon MRAP family vehicles

eehnie wrote:

Militarov wrote:

eehnie wrote:

Militarov wrote:

eehnie wrote:A little surprised, but it is not bad. The new Typhoons seem to be armored trucks of middle size.

Well they are MRAPs basically, they need to be heavy. They are on pair in weight with most of foreign solutions too, Renault Higuard, TITUS, Cougar HE, Lazar 2 etc.

I like the size of the new Typhoons, I think it is the right size for armored vehicles looking forward. Lighter armored vehicle projects are failing to pass the tests of the armour in recent years, becoming unsuccessful. But the new generation of Russian IFVs and APCs (Kurganets-25, Bumerang-25, Typhoon-U, Typhoon-K and the new Bulat) can become successful, with maybe the Atom Project, that is very interesting.

What i like about Typhoon is that its actually appealing to the eyes, which most of the USSR/Russian equipment in past wasnt. Atom i am not sure, if they use its weapon station on Kurganets 25 i assume, but keeping French platform i highly doubt.

The project is being resumed without France. Check the Atom topic.

I can't find the Atom topic....do you have a link please?
EDIT: Nevermind, I found it on Page 2.

A big batch of Typhoon-Ks have been recently delivered to the Russian Armed Forces

Russian company Kamaz delivers 70 Taifun-K MRAPs to Russian Armed Forces

Russia`s Armed Forces have received over 70 Taifun-K (Typhoon K) heavy mine-resistant ambush-protected (MRAP) vehicles developed by the KAMAZ company (a part of the Rostec state corporation), according to a source in the Russian defense industry.


Taifun-K (Typhoon K) heavy mine-resistant ambush-protected (MRAP) vehicles (Photo Army Recognition)

"The subsidiaries of the KAMAZ company have delivered over 70 K63968 Taifun-K MRAP vehicles to Russia`s Ministry of Defense (MoD). At present, an additional batch of the MRAPs is being produced for the Ministry. The customer will receive several more dozens of the Taifun-K vehicles before the year-end," the source said.

According to open sources, the Taifun-K 6x6 wheeled MRAP vehicle has a combat weight of 24 t, a crew of 2 servicemen, a passenger capacity of 16 mounted soldiers, a length of 8,990 mm, a width of 2,550 mm, a height of 3,300 mm, a maximum road speed of 105 km/h, and an operational range of 1,200 km. Taifun-K is armoured at Level IV STANAG 4569 (All-round protection against 14.5 mm armour-piercing bullets at 200 m distance). The vehicle can be armed with a remote controlled weapon station (RCWS). Taifun-K is powered by YaMZ-5367 (450 h.p.) diesel engine. The vehicle features the newest Gals-D1M combat management system developed by the Volna scientific-research institute.

Link to the official article:
http://www.armyrecognition.com/august_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/russian_company_kamaz_delivers_70_taifun-k_mraps_to_russian_armed_forces_50808164.html

It seems that this is the day of the MRAP.

That new Typhoon is looking more and more likely to be for VDV according to folks online. Fresh pics with moar pow'a on the roof.

PapaDragon wrote:
It seems that this is the day of the MRAP.

That new Typhoon is looking more and more likely to be for VDV according to folks online. Fresh pics with moar pow'a on the roof.

30mm?

That turret actually kind of looks larger than the 57mm, I wonder if it can also use that?

Russia makes first MRAP. Builds it with better armament than anything else currently in operation around the globe.

PapaDragon wrote:
It seems that this is the day of the MRAP.

That new Typhoon is looking more and more likely to be for VDV according to folks online. Fresh pics with moar pow'a on the roof.

This Typhoon 4x4 looks cool, but I have some questions about it.  

-First, will the Russian MoD choose this, or the VPK-3927 "Volk" (or maybe both)? IMO there is a high chance of that the Typhoon-K 4x4 will be supplied to the VDV, and the Volk will be used by the Army (Ground Forces)

-Second, seeing that this is made by KamAZ, what happened to the Typhoon-U series made by Ural? Maybe they didn't received contracts from MoD? Maybe the Typhoon-U will be supplied to the National Guard, and the Typhoon-K will be supplied to the Army, which decision would be logical, since if the Typhoon-U's engine block placed in front of the driver's cabin would receive a hit from, let's say a 12.7mm round, it would be seriously damaged, since the projectile would go through the engine's grating. The Typhoon-K eliminates this danger by it's engine placed behind the driver's cabin, thus allowing a more thicker armor plate to be placed into the front of the driver's cabin, which offers more protection for the driver.

-Third. It is clear that the one on the right side is equipped with a turret or something, but the other vehicle on the left side is having something similar to it (but I'm sure that it isn't a turret). I think that it is some kind of cover for radio/signal equipment, or the Leer-2 EW complex, but a reconaissance camera on a telescopic mast can also be fitted there too.

BTW my thoughts are that this could find great use at the VDV supplementing, or even partially/fully replacing the GAZ-2330 Tigr in some roles, since the Tigr is an Armored Mobility Vehicle, and the Typhoon-K 4x4 is an MRAP, which offers more protection against IEDs or other explosives.

Benya wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
It seems that this is the day of the MRAP.

That new Typhoon is looking more and more likely to be for VDV according to folks online. Fresh pics with moar pow'a on the roof.

This Typhoon 4x4 looks cool, but I have some questions about it.  

-First, will the Russian MoD choose this, or the VPK-3927 "Volk" (or maybe both)? IMO there is a high chance of that the Typhoon-K 4x4 will be supplied to the VDV, and the Volk will be used by the Army (Ground Forces)

-Second, seeing that this is made by KamAZ, what happened to the Typhoon-U series made by Ural? Maybe they didn't received contracts from MoD? Maybe the Typhoon-U will be supplied to the National Guard, and the Typhoon-K will be supplied to the Army, which decision would be logical, since if the Typhoon-U's engine block placed in front of the driver's cabin would receive a hit from, let's say a 12.7mm round, it would be seriously damaged, since the projectile would go through the engine's grating. The Typhoon-K eliminates this danger by it's engine placed behind the driver's cabin, thus allowing a more thicker armor plate to be placed into the front of the driver's cabin, which offers more protection for the driver.

-Third. It is clear that the one on the right side is equipped with a turret or something, but the other vehicle on the left side is having something similar to it (but I'm sure that it isn't a turret). I think that it is some kind of cover for radio/signal equipment, or the Leer-2 EW complex, but a reconaissance camera on a telescopic mast can also be fitted there too.

BTW my thoughts are that this could find great use at the VDV supplementing, or even partially/fully replacing the GAZ-2330 Tigr in some roles, since the Tigr is an Armored Mobility Vehicle, and the Typhoon-K 4x4 is an MRAP, which offers more protection against IEDs or other explosives.

There are reports of both 6x6 Typhoon-K and Typhoon-U ordered and delivered. They seems good a successful vehicles to me.

About smaller vehicles, I think all are having big troubles to pass the tests and to be officially adopted by the Russian Armed Forces. There are multiple models like this Typhoon 4x4, the Volk,... but all are failling by the same way in the last years. (Note that I agree with the standards demanded by the current tests for armoured vehicles to work in contested areas.)

eehnie wrote:...........................
There are reports of both 6x6 Typhoon-K and Typhoon-U ordered and delivered. They seems good a successful vehicles to me.

About smaller vehicles, I think all are having big troubles to pass the tests and to be officially adopted by the Russian Armed Forces. There are multiple models like this Typhoon 4x4, the Volk,... but all are failling by the same way in the last years. (Note that I agree with the standards demanded by the current tests for armoured vehicles to work in contested areas.)

Well it was recently confirmed that 70 Typhoon-K 6x6 were delivered to RU Military so that model is a go. It seems to be already in service with Assault Engineers.



I don't really know status of Ural MRAPs.

Tigers and Lynx (Iveco) are in production and service of course but with a catch. Tigers have superior armor, off-road performance and internal space to Lynx but Lynx has superior mine resistance (level 6 as opposed to level 3 on Tiger). There were recent news that new Tiger was developed with level 6 mine resistance so we will se how that goes.

Kamaz was developing Typhoon-K 53949 4x4 but it was not accepted due to imported components used in production. This new VDV Typhoon we see now is evolution of that model with fully localized components. If it is proven successful I see no reason why Army would not accept it as well in service to replace/supplant Tigers, Lynx and Ural MRAP.

From what I can guesstimate based on those pics it looks like it fits the bill on all criteria (wheel size, internal space, clearance, armament capacity). With decent armor this should translate into good off-road performance, protection from bullets and mines, capacity and crew comfort.

All this would leave very little need for Volk. Volk was supposed to be better MRAP than Tiger but with level 6 Tiger coming soon and this new Kamaz there is simply no point in getting Volks.



Here is the first pic of this model just in case:

Kamaz appears to be far ahead of their other rivals in the russian MIC, pretty soon the selection for the Army is going to be a one horse race.

PapaDragon wrote:

eehnie wrote:...........................
There are reports of both 6x6 Typhoon-K and Typhoon-U ordered and delivered. They seems good a successful vehicles to me.

About smaller vehicles, I think all are having big troubles to pass the tests and to be officially adopted by the Russian Armed Forces. There are multiple models like this Typhoon 4x4, the Volk,... but all are failling by the same way in the last years. (Note that I agree with the standards demanded by the current tests for armoured vehicles to work in contested areas.)

Well it was recently confirmed that 70 Typhoon-K 6x6 were delivered to RU Military so that model is a go. It seems to be already in service with Assault Engineers.



I don't really know status of Ural MRAPs.

Tigers and Lynx (Iveco) are in production and service of course but with a catch. Tigers have superior armor, off-road performance and internal space to Lynx but Lynx has superior mine resistance (level 6 as opposed to level 3 on Tiger). There were recent news that new Tiger was developed with level 6 mine resistance so we will se how that goes.

Kamaz was developing Typhoon-K 53949 4x4 but it was not accepted due to imported components used in production. This new VDV Typhoon we see now is evolution of that model with fully localized components. If it is proven successful I see no reason why Army would not accept it as well in service to replace/supplant Tigers, Lynx and Ural MRAP.

From what I can guesstimate based on those pics it looks like it fits the bill on all criteria (wheel size, internal space, clearance, armament capacity). With decent armor this should translate into good off-road performance, protection from bullets and mines, capacity and crew comfort.

All this would leave very little need for Volk. Volk was supposed to be better MRAP than Tiger but with level 6 Tiger coming soon and this new Kamaz there is simply no point in getting Volks.



Here is the first pic of this model just in case:

The following link as example shows the Typhoon-U in use by the Russian Armed Forces:

http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150325/1054305076.html
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fria.ru%2Fdefense_safety%2F20150325%2F1054305076.html

Both 6x6 vehicles, the Typhoon-U and the Typhoon-K seem good options to me. In the case of the Typhoon-U I can not confirm if the part of the engine is also armoured, I would say it is, but can not confirm it. The front fart of the box for the engine can have some aditional armour hidden, it would not be a problem.

These 6x6 vehicles are between 20 and 25 tons, which allow them to have enough armour, but in the case of the vehicles under 15 tons, I do not think it will be something good enough. The BMD-4M is for me the vehicle that marks the minimum standard for a successful vehicle for contested/combat areas today in Russia. I think it is very difficult to see weaker new vehicles adopted by the Russian Armed Forces, except if they are to work outside of the combat areas.

Instead, these smaller vehicles can find their place for other security forces.

When you think about it, unifying fleet of heavy combat vehicles should be priority and RU military is definitely focusing on that.

MRAPs are comparatively simpler and cheaper systems so while having a tangled logistic chain in that segment is certainly a hassle, it is smaller and perfectly manageable hassle.

GarryB wrote:The Typhoon vehicles are a family of vehicles... like Kurganets, Boomerang, and Armata.

Volk and Tiger are like a BMP or BTR... it has a range of variants but there is no complete family of vehicles... ie no tank version etc.

Typhoon will be the very light vehicle family and may only be used in VDV or light recon units as the vehicle basis. Where speed and transportability by rail or air is top priority.

It will enter service in one form or another.

I rather suspect the Boomerang family will be the most heavily used and produced because it will be cheap and mobile and well armoured and well armed.

For any net centric military it will be critical to collect data and light highly mobile units will be one way of doing that... along with drones and satellites etc etc.

Actually the UVZ Tigr-M is looking a lot like a family of vehicles these day, and off the top of my head I know we've seen Tigr-m's being used as a APC, a ATGM carrier, a recon/intelligence vehicle, a ECM vehicle, and a NBC/engineering vehicle.

PapaDragon wrote:
When you think about it, unifying fleet of heavy combat vehicles should be priority and RU military is definitely focusing on that.

MRAPs are comparatively simpler and cheaper systems so while having a tangled logistic chain in that segment is certainly a hassle, it is smaller and perfectly manageable hassle.

The most important thing is those vehicles are made underneath the same house, because even if the vehicles are fundamentally different, it'll be much more likely to share commonality than otherwise.

GarryB wrote:The Typhoon vehicles are a family of vehicles... like Kurganets, Boomerang, and Armata.

Volk and Tiger are like a BMP or BTR... it has a range of variants but there is no complete family of vehicles... ie no tank version etc.

Typhoon will be the very light vehicle family and may only be used in VDV or light recon units as the vehicle basis. Where speed and transportability by rail or air is top priority.

It will enter service in one form or another.

I rather suspect the Boomerang family will be the most heavily used and produced because it will be cheap and mobile and well armoured and well armed.

For any net centric military it will be critical to collect data and light highly mobile units will be one way of doing that... along with drones and satellites etc etc.

What I see happening:

- Armata: heavy platform for around 50 tons armoured combat vehicles.
- Kurganets: tracked platform for around 25 tons armoured combat vehicles.
- Bumerang: wheeled platform for around 25 tons armoured combat vehicles.
- BMD-4M: light platform for around 15 tons armoured combat vehicles.
- Typhoon: 6x6 APC/Armoured Trucks for around 20-25 tons transport in contested/combat areas. It is a family of vehicles, but not a single platform (different chasis seem used).
- Bulat: Cheap 6x6 APC/Armoured Truck used to scort Surface-Surface missile vehicles in non-contested areas.

- Tigr, Iveco LMV and others not officially adopted like the Typhoon 4x4, BPM-97,...: semiarmoured light trucks. Not new orders and deliveries completed for the Russian Armed Forces since the upgrade in the safety standards (the contract of the Iveco LMV was previous). Some ordered for other security forces.

What I do not see happening:

- I do not see the Typhoon family being developed for artillery, anti-tank or even IFV roles like the armata, kurganets, bumerang and BMD-4M  platforms.
- I do not see the Typhoon family being developed as a light platform. The vehicles adopted until now are between 20 and 25 tons.
- I do not see the light semiarmoured trucks (Tigr, Iveco LMV,...) being orderded more for combat purposes.

Russia to export the Typhoon-K 4x4 in the future

Russia will promote Typhoon-K (KAMAZ-53949) 4x4 resistant ambush protected vehicle (MRAP) vehicle on foreign markets.

The press service of Rosoboronexport arms trader said a corresponding program was inked by its Director General Anatoly Isaikin and Faiz Khafizov, the director general of Remdiesel enterprise which produces the vehicle.


"The implementation of the program for 2017-2018 has already begun. Rosoboronexport marketing plans as well as international exhibitions and shows will get corresponding themes and events as well as demonstrations of Typhoon-K with 4x4 wheel arrangement which has to be produced by Remdiesel in export version by the end of 2016," it said.
Isaikin said Typhoon-K may be marketed in Northern Africa, the Middle East, Central and Southeast Asia, Latin America and the CIS.

The press service said Typhoon-K is designated for army and special forces, including peacekeepers. It can transport personnel and cargoes and can also be used as a basic chassis for mounting technical systems and armaments.

The KamAZ-53949 is a Russian-made 4x4 mine resistant ambush protected vehicle (MRAP) designed and developed by the Company KAMAZ. The vehicle was unveiled for the first time to the public in 2014 during the defense exhibition KADEX in Kazakhstan.

This vehicle can carried a total of 10 military personnel including driver and commander. It has a payload capacity of 2,000 kg. It offer high level of protection against ballistic and mine threats.

Original article:
http://www.armyrecognition.com/august_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/russia_will_promote_typhoon-k_kamaz-53949_4x4_mrap_vehicle_on_foreign_markets_tass_12108161.html

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Good news . BTW I didn't know that it was revealed 2 years ago.

At this point, unlike in the cases of the armata, kurganets and bumerang platforms, is very uncertain, even very unlikely, to see standard tank or motor infantry units of the Russian Army equiped with light wheeled vehicles as combat warfare. This is not happening. A good number of light wheeled vehicles are failing in the tests, or in other steps previous to the official adoption, and the reasons for it are structural, not things that can be solved with minor design changes.

It is obvious that the industry is spending in to develop these vehicles (maybe too much), and they want a commercial way for them at least in Russian security forces and for the export markets. Then it will not be public rejections of them that can damage their image for external markets, but at same time, there are not public reports of these vehicles being officially adopted for combat purposes, and there are not public reports of these vehicles being ordered and delivered for the Russian Armed Forces for combat purposes. We can not expect public rejections, but we are not having public positive official news, and this is what matter, to see them in service with the Russian Armed Forces.

Potential uses for the light semiarmoured trucks:
- Some operations of light military transport in non-contested areas.
- Security forces that work in non-contested areas.
- Export markets.

GarryB wrote:Typhoon will be a 4x4 or 6x6 vehicle family with unified engines and transmissions and systems and will basically replace the BRDM type vehicle family.

With the increasing use of drones, and of land robots, land reconnaissance vehicles like the BRDM-2 are losing place for operations in the front-line with the Russian armed forces. I think that vehicles of the same platform used by every unit will take the reconnaisance works that be not covered by drones or land robots, like it was done before with BTR-80, BMP-1 or BMP-3 reconnaissance variants. I do not think the Typhoon vehicles are oriented to replace the BRDM-2. I do not know where you see it. This is not happening now. The 6x6 Typhoon today seem more oriented to transport of soldiers and/or cargo in contested/combat areas.

Also, as I commented with you other times, vehicles of different weight class share not chasis, engines or transmissions because of a number of reasons. If you doubt about it, you can see in the following links how the 3 first Typhoon variants, that are 6x6 and of the same weight class have all engines of 450hp (likely the same), while the 4x4 Typhoon vehicle (the last) seem to have an engine of 350hp, which obviously would be different.

http://www.military-today.com/apc/kamaz_taifun.htm
http://www.military-today.com/apc/ural_taifun.htm
http://www.military-today.com/apc/kamaz_63969.htm
http://www.military-today.com/apc/kamaz_53949.htm

GarryB wrote:First of all if Tigr can carry Kornet in the AT role why not Typhoon?

A MT-LB, BRDM-2, Tigr or Typhoon 4x4 with a Kornet mounted is a MT-LB, BRDM-2, Tigr or Typhoon 4x4 with a Kornet mounted. It makes not them "Anti-tank vehicles". Like a ZSU-23-2 mounted on a Toyota makes not the Toyota an anti-aircraft vehicle.

GarryB wrote:I have not seen any weight information for 4x4 or 6x6 typhoons.

In the previous links and in other sources the information is offered. Maybe this is why you keep thinking that the Typhoons are light vehicles.