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    Type-055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:28 am

    It is not a criticism... just an observation.

    I am used to looking at Russian and Soviet ships, and a vessel this size would have at least four air defence gatling guns like the one fitted to this ship, but obviously a ship from the cold war period had much bigger and heavier and fewer main missiles (Sunburn for Sovs and Metel for Udaloy) and also fewer air defence missiles. If anything this ship is like the old Moskva helicopter carriers in the sense that the back end is for helicopters and the front end is for weapons...

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    Post  walle83 on Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:54 am

    GarryB wrote:It is not a criticism... just an observation.

    I am used to looking at Russian and Soviet ships, and a vessel this size would have at least four air defence gatling guns like the one fitted to this ship, but obviously a ship from the cold war period had much bigger and heavier and fewer main missiles (Sunburn for Sovs and Metel for Udaloy) and also fewer air defence missiles. If anything this ship is like the old Moskva helicopter carriers in the sense that the back end is for helicopters and the front end is for weapons...

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    With the difference being that is also have vls at the back as well of course.
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    Post  walle83 on Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:17 am

    To be clear

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    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:55 am

    Similar to a Udaloy except with the gun up front and vertical launch missile tubes for the main armament... it already had vertical launch SAMs 40 years ago.

    You are reading too much into what others say... there are serious limits as to what weapons you can fit to a ship and where you can fit them amongst everything else that needs to be there... to be honest I would be more interested in the EW and sensors... which actually look rather good on this ship too.

    Do you have the specs for the 130mm gun... range, shell weight etc etc?
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    Post  walle83 on Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:51 am

    GarryB wrote:Similar to a Udaloy except with the gun up front and vertical launch missile tubes for the main armament... it already had vertical launch SAMs 40 years ago.

    You are reading too much into what others say... there are serious limits as to what weapons you can fit to a ship and where you can fit them amongst everything else that needs to be there... to be honest I would be more interested in the EW and sensors... which actually look rather good on this ship too.

    Do you have the specs for the 130mm gun... range, shell weight etc etc?

    Its really a big difference between a Udaloy and the type 055 when u compare thier armaments. The original Udaloy had/has 8 SS-N-14 missiles, compare that with 112 possible missiles for the 055. Of cource all tubes wont be filled with asm but even if its only a fourth it will still carry more then tripple that. Add then the CJ-10 cruise missiles it also will have and its a monster compared to the Udaloy.

    The PJ-38 130mm gun was first developt for the Type-052D destroyer. They used thier knowlege from the russian AK-130 when constructing it so the specs should be very close to that.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:07 pm

    GarryB wrote:Similar to a Udaloy except with the gun up front and vertical launch missile tubes for the main armament... it already had vertical launch SAMs 40 years ago....

    Type-055 makes Udaloi look like vintage fishing boat, get serious here...

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    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:45 am

    Type-055 makes Udaloi look like vintage fishing boat, get serious here...

    Obviously the technology is different now, but talking about 112 vertical launch missile tubes... the Udaloy did have 64 TOR missiles in vertical tubes... simply replacing those launchers with the current model TOR (the TOR model on teh Udaloy is from the first model SA-15s with 8 missiles per vehicle... the current model carries 16 missiles in the same volume) it should be able to carry 128 missiles ready to fire easily.

    The original only had 8 primary missiles which would be the equivalent of one UKSK launcher, but that would be 136 launch tubes and I am not even counting the Udaloy II with two Kashtan systems with 40 missiles each... so 176 missiles plus torpedo tubes with 8 x 91ER type missiles for anti sub use and of course the two RBU systems.

    It is certainly not poorly armed.... I mean a good HATO equivalent with 8 Harpoons isn't exactly better armed at all.


    The PJ-38 130mm gun was first developt for the Type-052D destroyer. They used thier knowlege from the russian AK-130 when constructing it so the specs should be very close to that.

    It is single barrelled though, so I suspect they modelled it on the upgraded reduced weight model the Russians are putting on their Frigates.

    They talk about joint ventures of airlines... perhaps a joint venture for a long range 203mm gun perhaps that both could use on their cruisers and the 152mm guns could be used for destroyer sized vessels...
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    Post  walle83 on Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:42 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Type-055 makes Udaloi look like vintage fishing boat, get serious here...

    Obviously the technology is different now, but talking about 112 vertical launch missile tubes... the Udaloy did have 64 TOR missiles in vertical tubes... simply replacing those launchers with the current model TOR (the TOR model on teh Udaloy is from the first model SA-15s with 8 missiles per vehicle... the current model carries 16 missiles in the same volume) it should be able to carry 128 missiles ready to fire easily.

    The original only had 8 primary missiles which would be the equivalent of one UKSK launcher, but that would be 136 launch tubes and I am not even counting the Udaloy II with two Kashtan systems with 40 missiles each... so 176 missiles plus torpedo tubes with 8 x 91ER type missiles for anti sub use and of course the two RBU systems.

    It is certainly not poorly armed.... I mean a good HATO equivalent with 8 Harpoons isn't exactly better armed at all.

    If we are playing with numbers the type 55 can pack four medium range AA missiles per tube, 4 x 112 = 448 missiles.

    Of cource the big difference is that the Udaloy only carries AA missiles in its tubes and the 55 can carry both AA, asm and cruise missiles in its vls.

    The Udaloy II is just one ship, and its in refit if im not mistaken.

    The modified Udaloys with 16 vls and 8 SS-N-25 is a better update.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:22 am

    Compared with some of the ships the British used during the Falklands war... look up the Sea Cat and Sea Slug naval SAMs and you will see the Udaloy was actually a rather good ship... the problem these days is everyone is so focussed on how many launch tubes and how many missiles can be carried... when it was doing its job a Udaloy would struggle to find a reason to launch all eight anti sub missiles and all ten torpedo launched anti sub weapons that it carries... there is a lot of confusion between the real world and computer games....

    It is like someone bragging and saying an AK-47 from the 1980s is obsolete because it only has a 30 round magazine, where new weapons have backpack mounted 1,000 round feed systems. You might argue that during combat not having to worry about changing mags and knowing there is always ammo ready to fire makes it better, but I would suggest it makes it too expensive and too heavy to keep fully loaded all the time...

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