Type-055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

This auxiliary ship looks very interesting as well. And quite big.

ALAMO wrote:This auxiliary ship looks very interesting as well. And quite big.

Looks like a Type-903 replenishment ship.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_903_replenishment_ship

You must wonder what the Russian are thinking when the Chinese has new ships basicly every time the have an joint exercise, and them self returns with the same old Slava and Udulay vessels year after year

Probably thinking with the sort of western investment that China got, leading to Russia being the cheap labour source for world production could have led to them being in such a good financial situation that they can produce big ships in great numbers, but they probably also realise that China are not producing these ships for fun or to impress Russia... there is going to be a conflict over Taiwan and they are going to need all the big ships they can get, but also all the support they can get because right now the western world does not like buying Chinese stuff because they know it is cheap and that it used to be made in their countries, but they continue to buy from China because it is cheap and often there is no longer any local alternative, but when.... not if but when... the US and the west push Taiwan into war with China then obviously the world will have to choose and part of being part of the western world will mean cutting off ties with China... because that is how a gang of thugs operates.

China is big enough to deal with that... they have a large enough population to deal with that though their economy will take a hit they have enough of an internal market that most stuff not totally oriented to the western market should remain in production and distribution to the rest of the world.

The thing is that they (Russian sailors) probably look at new HATO ships and also want new ships of their own more urgently, but unlike little children they will be happy to wait and get a much better vessel than if they just produced now what they can in the available shipyards.

And yes I know they have had some new corvetts and kilos, but the larger vessels continue to be the same.

Their larger ships are getting improvements that make them still very useful.

Seems others also agree - rather get yasens and other vessels that actually matter than this big piece of shit open target. Only dumb people get wowed by a big vessel.

A big vessel can be very impressive.

I think the irony is that China is making so many big vessels but is not travelling the world with them, while the Russians are ensuring their waters have sufficient smaller vessels to allow older small ships to be let go... the Russians are also not sailing the world with them except the odd fitting out voyage to test in different waters and climates without having to wait for winter or summer.

When Russia starts making new large ships I would expect they will start turning up all over the place around the world.

Asking why Russia has not built larger ships recently... how long is the Chinese civilisation been active and how long has it taken them to decide they wanted a large navy capable of world wide operations?

By then China will have developt and built 5 new generations of warships and submarines.

So what if they have... makes no difference to Russia.... China is no enemy... unless you want to make them so.

China is actually the one with the problems... because they are not comparing themselves to Russia... it is AUKUS and what ever they are going to call the grouping of South Korea and Japan and Australia and India and the US that they need to compete or deal with... in which case they really don't want to add Russia to that list.

JASKIUS... maybe?

Then you admit that the Type-055 is a good idea then, as the chinese have carriers.

Of course big ships are a good idea.

"Not knowing what they are doing" is relly not what im saying. If that was the case the same could be said about every other modified vessels then. The difference is that China is moving thru the generations twice as fast to catch up.

Without independent information or evidence of performance that is hard to agree with...

Plus it sounds like you are saying they are advancing really quickly... because they are so far behind... would not put that in the advert myself... plus it also means their advances rely on the lead work of others.... think of an orienteering race where you have to determine the route while running the race... running just behind someone following them so they work out which way to go so you don't have to means you can never catch up because the skills needed to run the race are clearly not skills you have... if you get ahead you might find you are ahead in the wrong direction which is another way of saying further behind.

Im not gessing, just stating what has been reported about the 093 for some years.

So you are not making it up... you are relying on information from China... that is fine.

And no trolling, but several members on the forum has a very hard time reading anything that can be negative against Russia and not go ape.

No trolling?  Really?

You say yourself in this quote... this forum has a very hard time reading anything that can be negative against Russia....

Perhaps you are ignoring what you wrote was an attempt to get a rise by suggesting the Russian sailors should be jealous of the large ship production rate of China... you got a rise.... congratulations.... your wishes came true, but now you complain that this Russian forum is the problem because they are sick of your anti Russian bullshit, particularly in threads about Chinese topics... almost like your purpose here is to divide Russia and China.

Raises questions... are you a paid troll or are you doing it for fun?

My orginal point was that China today has more or less replaced all of its larger surface vessels, and the Russian continues to use the same old workhorses with no replacement in sight.

And why do you think that is relevant in a thread on Chinese military forces... surely you should be posting this in a Russian economy thread demanding Russia spend 30% of their budget on big ships because obviously that is exactly what the US, sorry Russia needs right now... a pointless arms race between China and Russia... a matching set for the pointless arms race between India and China... only the west wins in such a situation... but mission accomplished... Russia bad... putin does not know what he is doing... Russian ship builders incompetent... Russian navy bunch of children...

Not really the first time you have tried to make that point even, but I hope you enjoyed the response.

Also considering what the Chinese Navy (military) looked like a couple of decades ago - you have to be impressed at where they are now.

I am... not going to let a western troll turn me against China... note the Chinese navy probably value these drills and exercises as no doubt they are learning a lot and no doubt find them valuable.

This decade is crucial for the Russian Navy as well and hopefully we can say the same at the end of it. Thankfully things are moving in the right direction.

Funny that western people don't live up to their words... "the Tortoise and the Hare", "The boy who cried wolf", so many stories with good ethical messages get totally ignored by the west... perhaps it is a problem with the education system...

GarryB wrote:

You must wonder what the Russian are thinking when the Chinese has new ships basicly every time the have an joint exercise, and them self returns with the same old Slava and Udulay vessels year after year

Probably thinking with the sort of western investment that China got, leading to Russia being the cheap labour source for world production could have led to them being in such a good financial situation that they can produce big ships in great numbers, but they probably also realise that China are not producing these ships for fun or to impress Russia... there is going to be a conflict over Taiwan and they are going to need all the big ships they can get, but also all the support they can get because right now the western world does not like buying Chinese stuff because they know it is cheap and that it used to be made in their countries, but they continue to buy from China because it is cheap and often there is no longer any local alternative, but when.... not if but when... the US and the west push Taiwan into war with China then obviously the world will have to choose and part of being part of the western world will mean cutting off ties with China... because that is how a gang of thugs operates.

China is big enough to deal with that... they have a large enough population to deal with that though their economy will take a hit they have enough of an internal market that most stuff not totally oriented to the western market should remain in production and distribution to the rest of the world.

The thing is that they (Russian sailors) probably look at new HATO ships and also want new ships of their own more urgently, but unlike little children they will be happy to wait and get a much better vessel than if they just produced now what they can in the available shipyards.

Seems others also agree - rather get yasens and other vessels that actually matter than this big piece of shit open target. Only dumb people get wowed by a big vessel.

A big vessel can be very impressive.

I think the irony is that China is making so many big vessels but is not travelling the world with them, while the Russians are ensuring their waters have sufficient smaller vessels to allow older small ships to be let go... the Russians are also not sailing the world with them except the odd fitting out voyage to test in different waters and climates without having to wait for winter or summer.

When Russia starts making new large ships I would expect they will start turning up all over the place around the world.

Asking why Russia has not built larger ships recently... how long is the Chinese civilisation been active and how long has it taken them to decide they wanted a large navy capable of world wide operations?

By then China will have developt and built 5 new generations of warships and submarines.

So what if they have... makes no difference to Russia.... China is no enemy... unless you want to make them so.

China is actually the one with the problems... because they are not comparing themselves to Russia... it is AUKUS and what ever they are going to call the grouping of South Korea and Japan and Australia and India and the US that they need to compete or deal with... in which case they really don't want to add Russia to that list.

JASKIUS... maybe?

Then you admit that the Type-055 is a good idea then, as the chinese have carriers.

Of course big ships are a good idea.

"Not knowing what they are doing" is relly not what im saying. If that was the case the same could be said about every other modified vessels then. The difference is that China is moving thru the generations twice as fast to catch up.

Without independent information or evidence of performance that is hard to agree with...

Plus it sounds like you are saying they are advancing really quickly... because they are so far behind... would not put that in the advert myself... plus it also means their advances rely on the lead work of others.... think of an orienteering race where you have to determine the route while running the race... running just behind someone following them so they work out which way to go so you don't have to means you can never catch up because the skills needed to run the race are clearly not skills you have... if you get ahead you might find you are ahead in the wrong direction which is another way of saying further behind.

Im not gessing, just stating what has been reported about the 093 for some years.

So you are not making it up... you are relying on information from China... that is fine.

And no trolling, but several members on the forum has a very hard time reading anything that can be negative against Russia and not go ape.

No trolling?  Really?

You say yourself in this quote... this forum has a very hard time reading anything that can be negative against Russia....

Perhaps you are ignoring what you wrote was an attempt to get a rise by suggesting the Russian sailors should be jealous of the large ship production rate of China... you got a rise.... congratulations.... your wishes came true, but now you complain that this Russian forum is the problem because they are sick of your anti Russian bullshit, particularly in threads about Chinese topics... almost like your purpose here is to divide Russia and China.

Raises questions... are you a paid troll or are you doing it for fun?

My orginal point was that China today has more or less replaced all of its larger surface vessels, and the Russian continues to use the same old workhorses with no replacement in sight.

And why do you think that is relevant in a thread on Chinese military forces... surely you should be posting this in a Russian economy thread demanding Russia spend 30% of their budget on big ships because obviously that is exactly what the US, sorry Russia needs right now... a pointless arms race between China and Russia... a matching set for the pointless arms race between India and China... only the west wins in such a situation... but mission accomplished... Russia bad... putin does not know what he is doing... Russian ship builders incompetent... Russian navy bunch of children...

Not really the first time you have tried to make that point even, but I hope you enjoyed the response.

I was going to text a long respond, but relly, who gives the ****.  Can't be bothered.

I realised what it is that I find so startling about Type 55: It looks like something you'd see in a scifi Anime as a sleeked up futuristic Burke.
It really is a very good looking ship

She certainly is but I would say that the type55 may even have a tad more of the Russian Pr.21956 than say the Burke?

Fourth Type-055 destroyer to enter active service in December.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3154842/chinas-fourth-type-055-destroyer-enter-service-next-month

Mir wrote:She certainly is but I would say that the type55 may even have a tad more of the Russian Pr.21956 than say the Burke?

They must have bought a russin design. It wouldn't be the first time. Their main attack helicopter was designed by Kamov, they contracted them tovmake the design. It's a easy way to get something quickly.

Isos wrote:

Mir wrote:She certainly is but I would say that the type55 may even have a tad more of the Russian Pr.21956 than say the Burke?

They must have bought a russin design. It wouldn't be the first time. Their main attack helicopter was designed by Kamov, they contracted them tovmake the design. It's a easy way to get something quickly.

Sure, because the could not have designed it themself like they did with type Type-51B/C, Type-52/B/C/D, Type-54/A, Type-22, Type-56/A ecs....

Mir wrote:She certainly is but I would say that the type55 may even have a tad more of the Russian Pr.21956 than say the Burke?

Nope

This is a fanart that went nowhere

Type 55 is actual existing ship

Little more than fan art as it was an actual model on display at various shows, but yes it did not go anywhere.

This is a fanart that went nowhere

There is a remarkable similarity in the bow, chine line & superstructure proportions (particularly aft), from recollection the dimensions are quite similar.
It would not surprise me if Russia sold the Proj 21956 design in the '90s as far as it had gotten (useful for hullshape/proportions/volume,weight allocations etc for various systems/probably reasonably well developed structural design) & China discarded basically everything above the chine line then finished it off/iterated on with their new weapons/sensors in a sleek superstructure.

This is not a 'lol Chinese can't invent anything', buying in a proven design as basis to iterate your own design off is a logical step that China has been using for many other systems and many other countries have done historically including Imperial Russia, USSR & modern Russia.

The end result is gorgeous, impressively powerful & clearly a triumph of the modern PLAN design progression thats been going for many decades from the 051s, 053s & early 052s through to modern 054A, 052D & now 055.

The fourth Type-055 destroyer was apparently commissioned in November. That makes it the third destroyer of the class in 2021. A fifth ship is supose to enter service in December.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2021/11/chinas-4th-type-055-destroyer-anshan-%e9%9e%8d%e5%b1%b1-commissioned-with-plan/

It is not confirmed the fourth ship is commissioned and there are sources saying it will be commissioned later this month.

China is about to commission 2 Type-055 destroyers at one time.

If only gorshkov could be produced at this kind of tempo.
Maybe someday, when aliens invade.

AlfaT8 wrote:If only gorshkov could be produced at this kind of tempo.
Maybe someday, when aliens invade.

Not the same priorities... China is massively investing in its navy because its main interest is the south china sea and the pacific more globaly.

Russian interest is its neighbourhood and securing its gas/oil pipelines as well as securing its land borders. That's why they bought massively S-400s and other AD system as well as upgrading all their land vehicles.

Isos wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:If only gorshkov could be produced at this kind of tempo.
Maybe someday, when aliens invade.

Not the same priorities... China is massively investing in its navy because its main interest is the south china sea and the pacific more globaly.

Russian interest is its neighbourhood and securing its gas/oil pipelines as well as securing its land borders. That's why they bought massively S-400s and other AD system as well as upgrading all their land vehicles.

I think Russia has a little more problems with thier shipbuilding then just "priorites".

At least Russia can build ships that are able to reach the open ocean without foreign help.

walle83 wrote:

Isos wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:If only gorshkov could be produced at this kind of tempo.
Maybe someday, when aliens invade.

Not the same priorities... China is massively investing in its navy because its main interest is the south china sea and the pacific more globaly.

Russian interest is its neighbourhood and securing its gas/oil pipelines as well as securing its land borders. That's why they bought massively S-400s and other AD system as well as upgrading all their land vehicles.

I think Russia has a little more problems with thier shipbuilding then just "priorites".

China: Quantity

Russia: Quality

Hole wrote:At least Russia can build ships that are able to reach the open ocean without foreign help.

How so?

walle83 wrote:

Isos wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:If only gorshkov could be produced at this kind of tempo.
Maybe someday, when aliens invade.

Not the same priorities... China is massively investing in its navy because its main interest is the south china sea and the pacific more globaly.

Russian interest is its neighbourhood and securing its gas/oil pipelines as well as securing its land borders. That's why they bought massively S-400s and other AD system as well as upgrading all their land vehicles.

I think Russia has a little more problems with thier shipbuilding then just "priorites".

If the priority for the last 20 years was to send ships off Cuba or in the south china sea Russia would have 20 Gorshkov by now.

Not their priority.

Having a good submarine fleet is and they are upgrading and building new submarines pretty well. Before 2030 they will have 20 new Borey and Yasen and same number of SSK.

It's a matter of priority. The kalibr equiped buyan and all the new corvettes are enough for now. Gorshkov is also coming slowly. It fits their needs. Their antiship missiles also make any ship obsolate around their shores.

US navy which is the only in the world that can threaten them has its hands full with chinese growing military, for the next 50 years at least. So no hurry for Russia.

Isos wrote:

walle83 wrote:

Isos wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:If only gorshkov could be produced at this kind of tempo.
Maybe someday, when aliens invade.

Not the same priorities... China is massively investing in its navy because its main interest is the south china sea and the pacific more globaly.

Russian interest is its neighbourhood and securing its gas/oil pipelines as well as securing its land borders. That's why they bought massively S-400s and other AD system as well as upgrading all their land vehicles.

I think Russia has a little more problems with thier shipbuilding then just "priorites".

If the priority for the last 20 years was to send ships off Cuba or in the south china sea Russia would have 20 Gorshkov by now.

Not their priority.

Having a good submarine fleet is and they are upgrading and building new submarines pretty well. Before 2030 they will have 20 new Borey and Yasen and same number of SSK.

It's a matter of priority. The kalibr equiped buyan and all the new corvettes are enough for now. Gorshkov is also coming slowly. It fits their needs. Their antiship missiles also make any ship obsolate around their shores.

US navy which is the only in the world that can threaten them has its hands full with chinese growing military, for the next 50 years at least. So no hurry for Russia.

Im not saying that this isnt thier priority, im saying that thier shipbuilding is not perfect. Every single program since 2000 has been delayed for some reason. If they had been perfect like they planed they would have had alot more Boreis, Yasens, Gorshkovs, Grigorovichs, Buyans ecs today.