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    Type-055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:09 pm

    Because they don't invest. They have better priorities, that's the reason why they are not building that many frigates and quality of shipyards isn't perfect.

    China has yet still not proven the quality of its ships. Building fast doesn't mean building good. A ship like type 055 should have the same life as a Slava. Let's see how long it will last.
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    Post  GarryB Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:08 am

    Im not saying that this isnt thier priority, im saying that thier shipbuilding is not perfect. Every single program since 2000 has been delayed for some reason. If they had been perfect like they planed they would have had alot more Boreis, Yasens, Gorshkovs, Grigorovichs, Buyans ecs today.

    But all Chinese ships are under budget and years early... because obviously silence is proof of perfection....

    We don't know what their budgets are, or their timetable... their might be lots of delays and cost overruns that we simply don't hear about... they probably prefer to make more money making commercial ships instead of military ones too.

    The west invested a lot of money and production technology to essentially make China the production centre for western products, and that shows in their capacity to make things now, and good on them, but if these ships are all vulnerable to new Russian missiles that will be fitted to subs and corvettes as well as frigates new and upgraded then the extra production capacity does not mean a whole lot.

    Against the US having lots of ships is important because the US relies on overwhelming enemies with enormous volumes of subsonic missiles so having lots of missile ships each with large numbers of missiles and AESA radars should be a good solution to the problem of US carrier groups.

    There is no real conflict with Russia however so your comments are not really relevant.

    Now they have chosen corvettes and frigates and they seem to be mature and capable the next step will be destroyers and cruisers and of course helicopter landing ships, but the process takes time and should not be rushed just to please anonymous people on the internet.

    These Chinese ships have enormous potential, but how they are actually used and how they perform is yet to be seen.

    They seem to have chosen a path of cooperation with Russia, which is going to be good for Russia and also for China... some might think it was a difficult choice but the west and in particular the BS from the EU and US meant there was no other alternative choice anyway.

    It will be interesting because China has invested time and money in trade links leading from Asia to the EU, and that does not mean they have invaded or regime changed all the countries between them and the EU like the west would... they have made commercial arrangements where those countries join this programme and have the potential to develop trade links not just with Asia and the EU but all the other countries along the route can use the improved trade options to boost trade and cooperation. If the EU can grow up and show some independence from the US it might benefit but it will likely be successful even if it doesn't quite reach the EU because there are billions of people involved in these trade routes that benefit from cheaper and faster trade... except the US which isn't part of it which is why they are trying to sabotage it.... and of course being the dumb fucks they are the Europeans are being led by the nose to fear Russia and hate China... well they probably don't want to trade and make money and get affordable stuff.
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    hoom


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    Post  hoom Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:54 am

    The west invested a lot of money and production technology to make large short-term profits with the unintended long-term effect being to essentially make China the production centre for western products...
    FIFY
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    walle83


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    Post  walle83 Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:00 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Im not saying that this isnt thier priority, im saying that thier shipbuilding is not perfect. Every single program since 2000 has been delayed for some reason. If they had been perfect like they planed they would have had alot more Boreis, Yasens, Gorshkovs, Grigorovichs, Buyans ecs today.

    But all Chinese ships are under budget and years early... because obviously silence is proof of perfection....

    We don't know what their budgets are, or their timetable... their might be lots of delays and cost overruns that we simply don't hear about... they probably prefer to make more money making commercial ships instead of military ones too.

    The west invested a lot of money and production technology to essentially make China the production centre for western products, and that shows in their capacity to make things now, and good on them, but if these ships are all vulnerable to new Russian missiles that will be fitted to subs and corvettes as well as frigates new and upgraded then the extra production capacity does not mean a whole lot.

    Against the US having lots of ships is important because the US relies on overwhelming enemies with enormous volumes of subsonic missiles so having lots of missile ships each with large numbers of missiles and AESA radars should be a good solution to the problem of US carrier groups.

    There is no real conflict with Russia however so your comments are not really relevant.

    Now they have chosen corvettes and frigates and they seem to be mature and capable the next step will be destroyers and cruisers and of course helicopter landing ships, but the process takes time and should not be rushed just to please anonymous people on the internet.

    These Chinese ships have enormous potential, but how they are actually used and how they perform is yet to be seen.

    They seem to have chosen a path of cooperation with Russia, which is going to be good for Russia and also for China... some might think it was a difficult choice but the west and in particular the BS from the EU and US meant there was no other alternative choice anyway.

    It will be interesting because China has invested time and money in trade links leading from Asia to the EU, and that does not mean they have invaded or regime changed all the countries between them and the EU like the west would... they have made commercial arrangements where those countries join this programme and have the potential to develop trade links not just with Asia and the EU but all the other countries along the route can use the improved trade options to boost trade and cooperation. If the EU can grow up and show some independence from the US it might benefit but it will likely be successful even if it doesn't quite reach the EU because there are billions of people involved in these trade routes that benefit from cheaper and faster trade... except the US which isn't part of it which is why they are trying to sabotage it.... and of course being the dumb fucks they are the Europeans are being led by the nose to fear Russia and hate China... well they probably don't want to trade and make money and get affordable stuff.

    Hard to say about Chinas timetable, but you can also say that it does not matter. They keep pumping thier ships out so fast anyway a few delays wont make any difference. Same cant be said about Russia.

    And yes you are right about Russia not rushing out any destroyers or cruisers. And thats not primarily a planning issue, but a money issue. I`ll be very suprised if a new destroyer joins before 2035 and cruisers probably will never happen.
    Also by then its time to start replacing the todays corvetts and frigates again making the industry busy.
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    Post  walle83 Mon Feb 14, 2022 2:30 pm

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:16 pm

    Hard to say about Chinas timetable, but you can also say that it does not matter. They keep pumping thier ships out so fast anyway a few delays wont make any difference. Same cant be said about Russia.

    Introduction of large numbers of ships has its own problems... what sort of quality in terms of training are they giving, and are they building the port facilities needed to support operations of these ships.

    What indications are there that they have the resources in place to support large operations at sea for any period of time... how reliable are those engines and systems... can they produce enough spare parts to keep them all running.

    The Russian timetable is based around factors of cost as well as development... ironically the main issue with the Corvettes and Frigates they are currently building would be propulsion systems, but for bigger ships nuclear power will probably be a priority, though it will be an added cost too in the long term the new nuclear propulsion systems they will be creating will likely not need refuelling in their operational lives which actually makes them rather efficient.

    And yes you are right about Russia not rushing out any destroyers or cruisers. And thats not primarily a planning issue, but a money issue. I`ll be very suprised if a new destroyer joins before 2035 and cruisers probably will never happen.

    It is most likely a systems and propulsion issue that requires development and planning.

    The only large surface armed ship with nuclear propulsion they operated was the Orlan class which used mixed propulsion for extra power, but the current trend is mixed electric drive propulsion with some power generation system as a separate module.

    They will also likely be looking at new laser based systems using technology developed for Peresvet, with the energy capacity available on a large ship should be quite interesting, and of course a range of SAMs need to be navalised not to mention guns of various types and of course radar arrays and new sonar technology to be deployed.

    Also by then its time to start replacing the todays corvetts and frigates again making the industry busy.

    The pivot away from the west will also likely involve a massive increase in focus on the Navy. The Army and Air Force are largely set and they just need their new stuff to be produced in useful numbers really, but the Navy is going to get a new focus of ensuring Russian relations with other regions around the globe is not molested by western navies.

    Frigates and Corvettes alone wont cut it... and if they aren't interested in new cruisers then the two types of cruiser they are upgrading would be instead scrapped as they would have no future.
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    Post  Podlodka77 Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:55 am

    Twoo Type-055 class destroyers and three Type-052D class destroyers.

    Type-055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread - Page 7 29-10610
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    Post  walle83 Thu May 12, 2022 5:16 pm

    China launched YJ-21 hypersonic anti-ship missile from a Type-055 destroyer.

    https://eurasiantimes.com/china-flexes-muscles-with-its-hypersonic-carrier-killer-yj-21-missile/
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    Post  GarryB Fri May 13, 2022 12:39 am

    FIFY

    Very true... the western investment was not intended to help China, it was intended to provide a cheap source of produced goods for the west to buy at a fraction of their price to make in the west... enabling them to continue with their consumer society model.

    Hard to say about Chinas timetable, but you can also say that it does not matter. They keep pumping thier ships out so fast anyway a few delays wont make any difference. Same cant be said about Russia.

    They are not producing them for fun or for nothing... they see the west blocks trade and interferes in countries it calls the third world like it has some right to...

    Well the right is might and so this production of ships is China getting some might for itself... which is no threat to anyone except the bullies of the west.

    For every ship you put to sea you will have thousands of people tied up in support roles from the towns where the naval personel live to the infrastructure providing food and ammo and equipment and water directly to those ships but also to support ships that operate with those ships when they are away from port, even the piers they sit at when they are not at sea and the shipyards where they undergo upgrades and maintenance on a regular basis.

    What the Chinese are doing is astounding, but then considering their population size and production potential, they need to be able to asure their own access to the worlds oceans and the countries of the world they might want to trade with that the west might decide one day to cut them off from.

    They can't cut them off from Russia so energy and food are secure, but the west don't like competition and will do all sorts of nasty things to get what they think might be an advantage.

    And yes you are right about Russia not rushing out any destroyers or cruisers. And thats not primarily a planning issue, but a money issue. I`ll be very suprised if a new destroyer joins before 2035 and cruisers probably will never happen.

    Obviously you are entitled to your opinion, but do you think the split with the west makes the Russian Navy more important or less important to Russia moving forward... especially with all the BS the west loves to pull... they love conflict.

    They will likely step up corvette production and after they get the improved enlarged frigate design into the water and tested then they can decide if they want the new capabilities or if a mix of medium and heavy frigates might suit their specific needs for coastal and near Russia defence... with the laying down of two 40K ton helicopter carriers and current use of naval forces suggests they value that capacity, which is a world wide capacity with the new ships moving forward.

    Frigates can defend themselves but you need groups of them for real protection out in the open ocean, Destroyers can defend themselves and other ships too, while Cruisers are intended to protect groups of ships with very long range SAMs and weapons.

    I suspect current experience will show a 152mm gun with 180km range and a CEP of 10m would be very useful and perhaps even a 203mm gun developed on the same basis would be useful at sea and on shore for a replacement of the 130mm guns of the Bereg coastal gun system and also for the Russian Army for use in artillery battles.

    Equally the threat of ballistic and very high speed missiles will also make naval S-500s a priority too and the easiest way to carry a decent number of useful missiles will be on bigger ships, though I doubt their new cruisers would be much bigger than 20K tons.

    The new short range self defence missiles they mention for defending against artillery and drones would be a useful technology to add as well and of course the laser based defence system they use with their ICBM regiments will likely have a naval equivalent too... sharing costs and development resources.

    Also by then its time to start replacing the todays corvetts and frigates again making the industry busy.

    Not really... the shipyards that will be making Corvettes likely wont be making much else, but there is scope to make quite a vew corvettes as they are a useful light patrol like class of ship... future potential export orders might keep them building too...

    It seems western cargo companies have stopped moving Russian goods so replacing that capacity is going to take a while too, but in the end will create more competition internationally which is probably very good too.

    China launched YJ-21 hypersonic anti-ship missile from a Type-055 destroyer.

    A bit suspect... for it to be an atmosphere skipper it needs to be a rocket powered missile... to reach a speed and altitude to skip the atmosphere it needs to get to near orbital speeds, which makes the 180 mile range claimed for it seem rather short.

    If it is that two stage missile shown in that other thread that looks like a STANDARD SAM type missile then 180 miles is a very short range for such a missile in that configuration...

    (sorry, I started typing these answers before I noticed my reply so I am repeating some things but can't be bothered to rewrite or modify).

    That video is interesting... seems to use a Chinese version of SeaRam too...

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