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    Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S

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    Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S

    Post  limb Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:10 am

    If you read the article I posted the link to, Platform-O was "approved", but then basically not used for anything important.

    Because they assigned the task of designing this to a company without experience in making heavy vehicles of that size, the company decided to use electric drive in order to not design complex heavy duty hydropneumatic systems they had no experience in designing. But the drive train turned out way heavier than expected and the electric drive has loads of issues with crossing water. So, this does not have anywhere near the hauling performance it was supposed to have. Probably also really expensive since it seems to have used one electric engine per wheel. Supposedly it is now being redesigned to use one electric engine per axle.

    Anyway, just like I said, the Russian government can fix this problem for Tornado-S by designing a new vehicle using the BAZ-6909 tractor. But for the larger theater systems like Iskander or Bal, or strategic systems like Yars, still need to find a replacement to Platform-O. It remains to be seen what the Russian government will do on this matter.

    Why were they OK with iskander and S-400 trucks being BAZ but not with the tornado S? Why didnt they just mass produce tornado S on kamaz chassis with reloadable palette module?  There is no possible way this wouldve been troublesome to the russians. Is the BAZ autism also the reason the uragan 1M was canned?

    Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S - Page 20 2880px10

    Russians basically had a six shot himars with fully domestic components since 2009, yet 0 were produced.
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Nov 25, 2022 12:32 pm

    Why does Russia need a HIMARS?
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    Post  limb Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:06 pm

    It doesnt. It needs massive amounts of tornado S launchers.

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    Post  lancelot Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:21 pm

    Not enough Dakka clearly. Puny.
    Looks like an export system. Sorry but that is how it looks to me.

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    Post  flamming_python Fri Nov 25, 2022 2:04 pm

    It doesnt. It needs massive amounts of tornado S launchers.

    Russia started procuring them 2 years ago

    AFAIK they don't look outwardly different compared to the Smerches however; probably the chassis is an updated one with some minor differences, but you'll need to know what to look for.

    The photo you brought up was either some proposal or an export model

    Here are the 9A54 TELARs of the Tornado-S complex actually in service:

    Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S - Page 20 EfekR9aWAAImnie?format=jpg&name=large
    Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S - Page 20 EfekSiBXgAIU3h7?format=jpg&name=large
    Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S - Page 20 Boevaya_mashina_9a54_modernizirovannoi_300mm_reaktivnoi_sistemyi_zalpovogo_ognya_9k515_tornados-v6ygcmy7-1569368461

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    Post  GarryB Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:18 am

    It doesnt. It needs massive amounts of tornado S launchers.

    Actually Tornado S and Tornado G are each as sophisticated as the other, so effectively you could have a battery of either scattered around the front line that would always be ready to fire or to run away at a seconds notice because all they need to hit any particular target is to receive its target coordinates and permission to fire... they can then stop anywhere they are, stabilise jacks down, elevation and traverse set automatically calculated by the system based on the rocket types carried... and whoosh... lower and straighten the rockets to the travel position, raise the stabiliser jacks and off we go and all those rockets from all those different vehicles should all start arriving on target together.

    Even if the enemy detects the launches they come from 8 different locations and as they are rushing to get drones or just rocket artillery rounds there those artillery vehicles are gone and the airdefence vehicles are smacking down the first counter battery HIMARS launched... hey... even full power HATO can't deal with 8 Grad vehicles from 40km range or less firing 320 rockets at a couple of targets at one time... note if all the targets are enemy armour then those 320 rockets might have a total of 640 sensor fused guided top attack munitions using MMW radar and IR guidance (since 1996) with a self forging top attack munition.

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    Post  lyle6 Sun Nov 27, 2022 1:48 pm

    GarryB wrote:Even if the enemy detects the launches they come from 8 different locations and as they are rushing to get drones or just rocket artillery rounds there those artillery vehicles are gone and the airdefence vehicles are smacking down the first counter battery HIMARS launched... hey... even full power HATO can't deal with 8 Grad vehicles from 40km range or less firing 320 rockets at a couple of targets at one time... note if all the targets are enemy armour then those 320 rockets might have a total of 640 sensor fused guided top attack munitions using MMW radar and IR guidance (since 1996) with a self forging top attack munition.

    People tend to sleep on the Grad in favor of its larger sisters, but the Grad is so damn ubiquitous the Russians have a battery at the level of battalion when everyone else would have them at the brigade/division level.

    Probably one of the main reasons why the numerically inferior Russians just don't swept off the field by their more numerous opponents is the fact that whenever their enemies mass for an attack, the Russians would just hammer them with their Grad until they're dust, then their defenses just deal with the shattered and battered remnants.

    I find it a bit sad that they never did develop the 227 mm caliber further. Its basically a larger Grad at this point. Probably doesn't help that there are Grad rockets being developed with the Uragan's range, or that it just has more ammunition types available. Uragan only has the HEF, and cassette, smoke and illumination. They didn't even give it the self-guided anti-tank submunitions that Grad and Smerch have.

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    Post  GarryB Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:26 am

    Totally agree, though it is interesting that the Uragan rockets at 220mm are the same calibre as the TOS rockets... with all the modularity and unification of design and other bollocks to reduce costs and make things easier etc etc, I can understand them having only two vehicles, that does make sense but there is not reason for the small light vehicle that is Grad with fixed tubes could not be complimented by the heavier vehicle with the ability to carry two pallets which might be 300mm (6 rockets per pallet) or 220mm (15 rockets per pallet.. astounding...) or 122mm ( say 25-30 rockets per pallet) would give you a useful choice.

    Keep in mind when used on soft ground there is no reason why it couldn't just operate with one pallet present to keep the weight down and improve mobility...

    More importantly that same larger vehicle could carry two Uragan pallets or two TOS pallets perhaps, but equally with a view to light artillery bombardment, remember that light truck vehicle model... imagine a version based on the Typhoon armoured truck designed to carry one pallet... it could be a universal rocket launcher able to carry one 122mm rocket pallet (25-30 rockets), or 220mm rocket pallet (15 rockets) or 300mm rocket pallets (6 rockets), but it could also carry the 220mm rocket pallet (15 rockets) filled with TOS instead of Uragan, or as a frontline assault vehicle you could put a 122mm or 80mm or 57mm aircraft rocket pod pallet on it, with maybe 50 x 122mm rocket tubes, 90-100 x 80mm rocket tubes, or 100-120 x 57mm rocket tubes for use against ground targets as a cheap simple attack vehicle.

    The upgrades on the artillery vehicles means everything is automated... the crew remain in the cabin... find a location to stop... receive target data, which calculates everything for them... the missiles are pointed and elevated and on command fired and then they can raise their stability jacks and drive away... with local command the local commander might decide he is getting too much sniper fire from a building and call in artillery vehicle support... they might be 5km away, or they might be 35km away... a support vehicle with suitable on board ammo might respond so he gives them the coordinates and might even get a few forward vehicles with eyes on the target building to get ready to lase specific areas of the building to be hit... a nearby rocket vehicle might fire 4 or 5 rockets... they might be laser homing 80mm rockets with a solid rocket booster that extends their ballistic range to 25km, or they might just be firing them from 4km away, or they might be 122mm Grad rockets with Glonass guidance.

    They might want specific warheads to be used so they might need 5 rockets from 4 different vehicles all located at different distances, with their launches synchronised based on rocket speed and their distance from the target and the number of laser target markers they have available at the time on the ground and in the air...
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    Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S

    Post  Podlodka77 Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:33 am

    November 30, 10:47
    Military operation in Ukraine

    Shoigu: "Tornado-S" and "Malka" can effectively hit foreign systems in Ukraine

    The head of the RF Ministry of Defense added that "counter-battery combat is being improved as one of the main tasks of fire destruction of the enemy"

    MOSCOW, 30 November. /TASS/. The use of multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS) "Tornado-S" and self-propelled artillery mounts (SAU) "Malka" for the purposes of counter-battery combat during a special operation in Ukraine allows you to effectively hit foreign rocket and artillery systems. This was stated on Wednesday by the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation, General of the Army Sergei Shoigu, at the board of the military department.

    "Counter-battery combat is being improved as one of the main tasks of fire destruction of the enemy. Long-range rocket artillery systems "Tornado-S" and high-powered artillery systems "Malka" are involved in its implementation. This makes it possible to effectively hit foreign rocket and artillery systems," he said.

    Self-propelled gun 2S7M "Malka" is considered one of the most powerful and long-range in the world. This is a modernized version of the 2S7 Pion self-propelled gun, developed in the 1980s. The main purpose of the self-propelled guns is to defeat important enemy targets and objects in the tactical depth of defense behind the front line. The rate of fire of the gun is up to 2.5 rounds per minute, the range is about 50 km. The Russian Defense Ministry has repeatedly distributed footage from the special operation zone, in which Malka destroys American M777 howitzers.

    The long-range 300-mm MLRS "Tornado-S" is a modified version of the "Smerch" system and can fire at targets at a distance of 120 km and cover an area of ​​more than 60 hectares. The complex is capable of firing both single rockets and a full volley of 12 guides.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/16461347

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