They are attacking Odessa/Nikolayev based targets with Ch-101, for Gods sake... It is 150 km straight line ...
They seriously need a sub-500 km systems. MLRS artillery would be perfect.
Except the Kh-101 carries a 450kg payload... what sort of MLRS with a 500km range will have a 450kg payload?
Smerch already has a 150km range, but do you think firing 12 rockets will compensate for the smaller payload?
It might, but very much depends on the target.
If that is true then I guess all you need to defeat an Abrams tank is about a 10,000 5.45mm rounds, because that would weigh even more than an APFSDS round in 125mm wont it?
They do not need to weaken anything. Just look at the specs of the Grad vs the Tornado-G rockets. They put more modern high density propellant in it and replaced the steel casing with composite casing. Old 9M28F rocket has 21 kg warhead and 15 km range. New 9M51 rocket has 21 kg warhead and 40 km range.
Grad has been in service for more than 40 years, and the Smerch is not a huge amount younger, the 40km range 122mm rockets are not new and were developed in the 1990s... the old 9M521 has a 21kg warhead and a 40km range, while the 9M522 can reach 37.5km with a 25kg payload, both advertised in 2000 (over 20 years ago...)
There are plenty of things they can put new high density propellent in but I would think giving Smerch rockets more range is not a huge priority at the moment... I would say a HERMES with a better booster would be vastly more cost effective and also more likely to actually hit a target than a ballistic rocket even if it had terminal guidance.
Russia has clearly found it difficult to destroy the HIMARS launchers properly.
Well to be fair the Orcs are trying to keep them hidden.
The real point is that HIMARS is a nuisance weapon rather than an artillery system the Soviet systems are on the battlefield.
No surprise, because of the cost of the HIMARS it was never going to be an effective artillery system.
Otherwise they would not be spending precious SAMs like the ones in the Tor to intercept HIMARS missiles.
TOR was designed specifically to deal with such threats... that is its reason for being... either in the field with armoured units or with heavy SAMs protecting them from attack.
At 90 km GMLRS range the HIMARS launcher would have to be destroyed with the Smerch or Iskander.
Destroying their rocket stores is much easier... blowing up warehouses in western ukraine and stopping the grain deal will reduce the amount of ammo getting to the front line.
BTW wanting to convert an excellent tool like Smerch into a one trick white elephant for defeating a missile that is not that big a problem is classic western design screwing things up.
Smerch and Uragan and Grad are doing excellent work... as is TOS, but still you are not happy... stop production of working weapons to make the pie in the sky weapon.
Even if you could destroy every single HIMARS that is only a tiny fraction of the work these rocket launchers do for which most of the time the extra range is added cost and would actually reduce performance at closer range targets.
There are probably not enough GLONASS guided Smerch rounds available right now for whatever reason and the kill chain just isn't quick enough to work on time on most cases.
Thanks... you claim there are not enough guided rounds but you still want more bloody range...
You want to extend the range of the rockets... to what end... are you saying the Russians can detect and destroy HIMARS launchers but the only thing stopping them is lack of a weapon that reaches that far...
So lets say they make some new 400mm rockets with 300km range with a guided warhead... they already have Iskander with 500km range if there was a HIMARS they detected and wanted to hit.
The problem is not a lack of range for their Smerch rockets, HIMARS type weapons will always be a problem in a largely wide spread urban/rural area... that was the whole bloody point in mobile artillery.
You need to expend the whole rack in a Tor or Pantsir to defend against a volley of GMLRS from a single HIMARS launcher.
Against military targets they have just been jamming them and HIMARS carries 6 rockets... TOR carried 16 missiles and Pantsir carries 12.
And I can bet what is cheaper at least in terms of man hours to produce.
HIMARS rockets are costing Kiev its soul.
You need at least 2 SAMs per GMLRS round and that is if the Tor or Pantsir have the latest upgrades. Without them it is more like 4 SAMs per GMLRS round.
Hahahahaha... why not 100 missiles or 1,000? Before upgrades two missiles might be fired to assure a hit, but after upgrades only one is fired and one hits.
Like I said, GMLRS ER will have basically the same range as Smerch, when it enters production. And has much cheaper HIMARS truck launcher platforms.
And yet they are still losing.
When it enters production.
HIMARS was supposed to be a game changer that will turn the tide and the Orcs will win.
Russia is not jamming GPS across the whole depth. This is done just over a specific area of the front. That is quite clear.
Of course, they are only jamming when and where they need to.
It is one thing to lose a D-20 or D-30, another to lose the Malva with a BAZ truck.
So D-20s and D-30s are carried in backpacks?
The Malva's vehicle is too expensive to operate at that kind of distance to the front.
It is a truck. Its operational costs will make it way cheaper than any tracked chassis like the one used for the previous example the 2S5.
Of course it is cheaper than Iskander if you can destroy the target with one 300mm rocket. Each Iskander launcher can carry 2x Iskander missiles at most, and the Polonez launcher carries 8x 300mm rockets. That is 4x more targets you can hit from one launch platform. The Polonez uses a smaller missile, and needs much less expense in rocket propellant to deliver the also smaller warhead to the target.
Iskander hits its targets... Polonez will be shot down. Iskander has a warhead five times heavier so two warheads would be the equivalent of 10 rockets.
A single 550kg warhead can do more damage to hard targets than 5 x 100kg warheads can. And for soft area targets the Iskander can use cluster munition warheads.
BTW are we talking about Polonez with a warhead of 100kgs and range of 200km or the Polonez-M with a warhead of 50kgs and a 280km range?
The Turks have the TRG-230. This is a 230mm rocket system which can either use a 70km range missile with laser guidance at the terminal stage. Ukraine has the Buran which is an upgrade of the Uragan on a Tatra launcher chassis with 65 km range.
And the Russians have 300mm Smerch rockets to hit targets 150km away so what is your problem?
Krasnopol has like 25 km range.
The GLONASS guided Krasnopol rounds reach 43km... plus it is rather unfair comparing laser guided artillery shells with laser guided rockets... the g acceleration on an artillery shell limits its range when it needs delicate optics for a laser detector, which is not an issue for a rocket.
Those amazing Turkish rockets wouldn't work against Russian forces because their drones wouldn't last long enough to lase the targets and Russian air defence will shoot down any rockets they do fire.
Can you say the same for a SMERCH volley for a HATO side?
I would say they lack a 100-300 km tier. Belarussian/Chinese Polonez fits the niche perfectly because with A300 (Typ2) missile, its minimal firing distance is more than 100 km. What you get, is 8 ps of ready to fire missiles where every single one targets a separate target in 20x20km square. It has a 120-130 TNT equivalent warhead. Or you can use a new toy - it is a Chinese M20 missile that retains the 300 km range, but with more than half a tone warhead. The missile number will be reduced to 3, still it is certainly a potent and interesting platform. Last but not least, soon there will be one more option for the system, with a new cruise missile with 500 km range. This piece is extremely versatile I would say ...
You are missing the point and confusing MLRS with guided missiles.
If you want a counter battery weapon with 100-400km range that can hit artillery vehicles when they fire with a missile that is supersonic it does not make sense to **** up your Smerch and Uragan and Grad batteries when they are already developing the HERMES in ground launched form with a booster to launch it to the vicinity of the target for it to glide down and attack point targets... currently delayed while they add propulsion so it can manouver and evade enemy air defence systems to ensure it hits its target. A bigger booster that lofts it up higher and further and a scramjet motor to really get it flying fast and it could extend its range from 100-150km to rather more quite easily.
How many targets in gato territory are even moderately defended?
The Americans are working on the same tiny short range self defence SAMs that the Russians are working on.
This conflict should be a real wake up call... you can't always expect your enemies to be this stupid... they have been lucky so far and right now they still have issues with Orc air defences... mainly the ones of Soviet origin.
There is Crotale and Aspide. But they are dated like heck and also not available in any great numbers.
And how many of them have 40 ready to fire missiles to deal with a single Grad vehicle volley, or 16 missiles for Uragan or 12 for Smerch?
About the only thing you can reliably take out with the smaller guided rockets are unhardened point targets like individual vehicles. Like, why even bother?
Which means a modified HERMES is the best solution rather than screwing up Smerch.
For counter battery fire to destroy individual enemy artillery vehicles the 30kg warhead of the HERMES would be just fine with direct hits.
I would say a combination of drones and HERMES and they really don't need to change anything at all.
New subcalibre guided HE rounds for 152mm and perhaps also 203mm guns would be very useful too.