Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S

But of course it was not, when Tochka was fielded nobody even considered the potential applied to Iskander.
You probably think about Oka, yet it was not even close to Iskander. It can be redirect en route by new coordinates, and home on moving target on approach using optical head. Oka lacked both, there was no technical space for that by the time.

And there you go telling me what I think...

They found themselves with two missiles with the same warheads and same seekers... one had a longer flight range and was better at evading air defences, but both were essentially the same.

The cost and price was not radically different but the costs of having two missile systems doing essentially the same thing was something they decided they didn't need.

They decided the Tochka could be retired and the Iskander could take over the role of both missiles.

The HERMES is going to have a range of 100-200km but will be much smaller and cheaper and be able to defeat point targets including moving targets... the descriptions talk about payloads of 30kgs or 60kgs depending on the iteration... the ballistic version with a solid rocket booster that glides down to the target is supposed to have a 57kg warhead and terminal homing, but they seem to have decided that would be too easy to shoot down and that a powered version with a 30kg warhead and a propulsion system to manouver and maintain speed makes more sense yet will be a fraction of the cost of the almost 4 ton Iskander.

A ramjet assisted missile might extend effective range to 300km plus in a missile that can be mounted on a relatively light truck:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Nickel_nitride



A SAM dodging manouvering ramjet powered HERMES is going to be rather more effective at hitting point targets at 100km plus ranges than any 300mm dumb rocket with terminal guidance.

There are threads about these missiles. Just saying... 

Tochka and Iskander represent a different tiers of ballistic missiles systems.

Not different enough to matter, they had two systems essentially doing the same thing and got rid of one system and used the other in its place.

While Tochka is a replacement for Frog/Luna, Iskander represents Elbrus younger generation.
Those share perfectly nothing, and are assigned to a different operational command, to begin with.

They are out of Russian service and are not being used by the Russians.

The Iskander remains in use.

Is it a criminal offense to suggest that one system is doing the job the two used to do?

They used them in Georgia so they know their combat performance...

Tochka uses 9M123 warhead of different types/prefixes.

The export catalogue for Russias Arms lists both missiles as having a payload of 480kgs, so of course it makes sense for them to reduce any heavier payload below the 500kg export limit but why add 60kgs for the export version of Tochka?

It is ballistic missile with no homing other than inertial navigation for U version, bringing the accuracy to some 70m.

And for the Iskander there are inertial guided models too with no terminal guidance... plus a version with radar guidance and also a version with an optical seeker too.

The optical seeker itself is described as being for ballistic tactical and theatre missiles, but if only Iskander uses it why describe it as a system for ballistic missiles?

There is no point for further arguing.

Who is arguing?

You claim Russia needs its artillery rockets to do counterbattery and strike missions out to 500km and I am saying that sort of mission does not need a multiple rocket launcher and a new smaller lighter powered missile could hit such point targets much more efficiently and cheaply... even mentioned the name of the system a couple of times.

If you need to hit a target 500km away with a 500kg warhead then they already have Iskander... if the problem is western long range artillery vehicles then Hermes is all you need.

Powered versions that manouver to reach the target will ensure targets are destroyed, perhaps cheaper unpowered models could be used against enemies with weak air defences or against targets that don't have air defence.

The point I am trying to make is that Smerch and Uragan and Grad already do their job well and the requirement to have them do this from 200km plus will just make them too expensive to use most of the time.

These Chinese and Belarussian rockets don't fly further because they are super high tech... they fly further because they carry more rocket fuel and less payload and the guidance systems needed to hit point targets means they wont be that cheap anyway.

China and Belarus have long range unguided rockets because they don't have Iskander.

Many targets don't require such a missile but that is what HERMES is going to be for... and the new model for ground launch will be interesting because the powered second stage launched version from an aircraft would be rather interesting too...

Su-25TM carrying two pylons carrying four HERMES missiles each with solid rocket boosters and unpowered missiles could hit targets out to 20-30km, but with the powered missile stage they should be able to reach more than double that if lofted into the air and equipped with ramjets...

At the very least an anti radiation version with a ramjet motor and solid rocket booster would be useful for strike aircraft like the Su-34.

I'm seeing a lot of people misidentify Grad and Tornado-G so here's a pro-tip:
Look for the rocket blast deflectors on the muzzle end of the launch tubes.

They're there to protect the fragile rocket interfacing docks on each tube - the one with wires running to another box on the bottom of the launcher.
Grad doesn't have those so the launch tube doesn't have the blast deflectors either.

As to why the Tornado-G rockets need a direct datalink

News report last month that was overlooked and not posted here. https://ria.ru/20230816/armiya-1890426805.html?ysclid=lmntff89y5709541232

KUBINKA, (Moscow region), August 16 - RIA Novosti. The Russian Ministry of Defense and the Splav Research and Production Association (NPO) signed a contract at the Army-2023 forum for the supply of 300-mm shells for the Tornado-S multiple launch rocket system.
"A state contract for the manufacture and supply of 300-mm rockets for the Tornado-S multiple launch rocket system is being awarded," the announcer said.
The contract was signed by Rinat Idrisov, General Director of NPO Splav, and Head of the Main Directorate of Armaments of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation Anatoly Gulyaev.