Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S

"Motovilikhinskiye Zavody" significantly increased the production of MLRS
03.10.2022

"The military division of the Motovilikha Plants, due to the increased production volumes, switched to work in three shifts. The production of combat vehicles from the Tornado-G and Tornado-S multiple launch rocket systems increased several times compared to last year and reached volumes that have not been seen for the past ten years," the state corporation said.

They added that the efforts of Rostec and the Ministry of Industry and Trade are focused on maintaining the production of weapons and military equipment at the enterprise, which has been in bankruptcy since 2018. In particular, financial assistance from Rostec made it possible to fully preserve jobs at Motovilikhinskiye Zavody, the enterprise pays wages, modernizes production, and fulfills the state defense order in full.

Rostec recalled that part of the property of Motovilikhinskiye Zavody was put up for auction.

“First of all, these are non-core assets that are not involved in the main activity of the enterprise. Property involved in the execution of the state defense order and mobilization state contracts can only be transferred to investors who have the appropriate licenses, in compliance with the obligations to ensure its integrity, safety and fulfillment of the state defense order,” — explained in the corporation.

Rostec also added that the sale of the property complex of the enterprise does not affect the continuation of the production of weapons and military equipment, since the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Industry and Trade control the preservation of the designated purpose of property and the execution of contracts.

MLRS "Tornado" was created to replace the rocket systems "Grad" and "Smerch" in the Russian armed forces. "Tornado" has a more advanced fire control system and is available in versions of "Tornado-G" caliber 122 mm and "Tornado-S" caliber 300 mm.

https://ria.ru/20221003/rostekh-1821060757.html

Any word on the production of precision ammunition for these?

November 16, 08:31,
updated November 16, 09:02

The Ministry of Defense within the framework of the state defense order received a batch of MLRS "Tornado-G" and "Tornado-S"

Due to the high workload of production in some areas, employees work in three shifts


MOSCOW, 16 November. /TASS/. "Motovilikhinskiye Zavody" as part of the state defense order (GOZ) delivered a batch of multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS) "Tornado-G" and "Tornado-S" to the units of the Russian troops. This was reported on Wednesday by the press service of the state corporation Rostec.

"Contractual obligations for the shipment of modern combat vehicles "Tornado-G" and "Tornado-S" were fulfilled in full and on time. Due to the high workload of production in some areas, employees work in three shifts. At the same time, the enterprise has stepped up work to create new jobs, higher wages and technical re-equipment," Sergei Dyadkin, director general of ZAO SKB (part of Motovilikhinskiye Zavody), is quoted in the message.

Earlier, Rostec reported that the production of MLRS at PJSC Motovilikhinskiye Zavody increased many times over last year and reached volumes that have not been seen in the last 10 years.

"Tornado-G" - 122 mm multiple launch rocket system, development of the Grad MLRS. The new system can fire from unprepared positions in an automated mode, which allows you to quickly open fire, after which, directly from the cockpit, transfer the artillery part of the system to the stowed position and change location.

The long-range 300-mm MLRS "Tornado-S" is a modified version of the "Smerch" system and can fire at targets at a distance of 120 km and cover an area of ​​more than 60 hectares. The complex is capable of firing both single rockets and a full volley of 12 guides.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/16339893

Any word on the production of precision ammunition for these?

What a stupid question... rocket launchers are designed to be used against area targets or in situations where you can't precisely define pinpoint targets... wasting money on precision guided artillery rockets is a waste... it would be like insisting on making machine gun ammo to the precision and performance of sniper ammo... totally wasted effort...

These rockets will be fired with drone support and a volley of rockets does not do the job then launch a bigger volley.

How to take a brilliant and effective battlefield weapon and make it expensive and useless... get the Americans to make them.

MLRS "Tornado" was created to replace the rocket systems "Grad" and "Smerch" in the Russian armed forces. "Tornado" has a more advanced fire control system and is available in versions of "Tornado-G" caliber 122 mm and "Tornado-S" caliber 300 mm.

So if that is the case then are those 15 tube pallets we have seen on Tornado-S actually 300mm too?

We assumed they were 220mm Uragan rockets but if they say there is no Tornado in 220mm...

I think he is talking about the himars-like gps/glonass guided rockets. I believe they already have these.

GarryB wrote:

MLRS "Tornado" was created to replace the rocket systems "Grad" and "Smerch" in the Russian armed forces. "Tornado" has a more advanced fire control system and is available in versions of "Tornado-G" caliber 122 mm and "Tornado-S" caliber 300 mm.

So if that is the case then are those 15 tube pallets we have seen on Tornado-S actually 300mm too?

We assumed they were 220mm Uragan rockets but if they say there is no Tornado in 220mm...

Those 15 tube pallets were 220mm. It is my understanding that the Russians have not decided on the future of the 220mm system.

ALAMO wrote:There is some misinterpretation in the matter.
Russkie don't help here either, as the number of different configs and modifications of their new systems is mindblowing.
Tornado-S other name is Uragan-1M. 9A53 index.
It is a swap of Tornado and Smerch, and both calibers can be used with the same carrier. Those are replaceable pods.

They only made 8-14 of these 4-6 years ago and nothing since so status unsure.

Garry, if you think it's stupid you need to move your mentality past WW2 and into the modern world, especially when dealing with an opponent who loves fixed fortifications.

TMA1 wrote:I think he is talking about the himars-like gps/glonass guided rockets. I believe they already have these.

Yep, likely way cheaper for use vs cities in range than x-101 or kalibers.

I think he is talking about the himars-like gps/glonass guided rockets. I believe they already have these.

HIMARS doesn't make sense for Russia... HIMARS is expensive but cheaper to operate than the much more expensive M270 that the US essentially if forcing on HATO countries. M270 has a tracked chassis based on the Bradley IFV that only they use so it is another tracked chassis for its HATO allies to buy and maintain... and is not very cheap at all.

The enormous costs to buy and to use for the tracked M270 meant even the US needed a cheaper alternative... HIMARS is not cheap, but being wheeled it is cheaper than the M270.

It is not cheaper than any Russian MLRS system they have ever operated which were all truck based and cheap enough to use in the enormous numbers that make them effective.

Needless to say Russia can deal with three or four HIMARs systems launching volleys... that is only 18-24 rockets at a time.

If they were Smerch I wonder how a HATO country or the US itself would deal with 4 x 12 rockets... 48 targets incoming at once?

They couldn't deal with 18 threats at once let alone 48.

The Russians have had guided rockets for longer than the Americans have, but their actual answer to HIMARS is Hermes... six missiles per vehicle with precision guidance and 100km range for point targets... they are delaying it because the new models have powered second stages that evade interception and are therefore actually likely to hit their targets... unlike most GMLRS.

Tornado-S other name is Uragan-1M. 9A53 index.

Doesn't Uragan mean Tornado?

It is a swap of Tornado and Smerch, and both calibers can be used with the same carrier. Those are replaceable pods.

The Tornado G, is a grad and Tornado S replaces the old Tornado and the old Smerch.

The two new vehicles are fully autonomous and can roll up to a position, receive target coordinates, orient the launch tubes and fire based on its current position and then roll away.

Their upgrades of tube artillery seem to offer the same capabilities too.

They only made 8-14 of these 4-6 years ago and nothing since so status unsure.

They are getting all the experience they need and opportunity to test things right now, so hopefully they will decide which to move forward with, production wise.

Garry, if you think it's stupid you need to move your mentality past WW2 and into the modern world, especially when dealing with an opponent who loves fixed fortifications.

Fixed fortifications have not just recently been invented... and they have guided Tulip rounds for any level of fortification.

Gun rounds tend to be more use against fortifications because the stress of launching from a gun barrel tends to mean the shells are strongly built and therefore they tend to penetrate better before exploding. Exploding inside a structure is always more effective than exploding outside.

Yep, likely way cheaper for use vs cities in range than x-101 or kalibers.

Too easy to be shot down when the target is actually defended. Drones and gun artillery is going to be rather more effective...

Guided versions of Unguided rockets don't make sense, because guided HIMARS rockets just use GPS guidance so they can only hit fixed coordinates anyway.

New 152mm shells also use GLONASS guidance and could do the same, the purpose of rocket artillery remains a great way to blunt an infantry attack and with Orc and Nazi forces running out of heavy armour and having to use civilian vehicles that would be horrendously vulnerable to fragments having rocket artillery ready to cover entire fields with fragments makes more sense than trying to hit each vehicle with one rocket at a time.

For the same reasons machine guns wont get replaced with sniper rifles.

Targets inside cities will be hit with drones and guided weapons to reduce the chance of collateral damage, but there are plenty of weapon option types for the Russian forces other than guided rockets... all of which are cheaper than their western alternatives.

The same tulips that are incredibly vulnerable to drone dropped grenades of drone directed guided rounds like Excalibur and GMLRS? (See the one lost in the vicinity of Lisichansk a few months ago) Again, you need to get with the times.

Too easy to shoot down? These are the people struggling against 2 cycle motor powered drones going 100 mph.

The same tulips that are incredibly vulnerable to drone dropped grenades of drone directed guided rounds like Excalibur and GMLRS?

Yup.

But why should Tuplips be safe when nothing else is?

Three Excalibur rounds and probably the same number of GMLRS probably cost more than a Tulip.

Drones are an issue that needs to be addressed the west does not lead the way in that regard... the west is even more vulnerable to drone attack than the Russians are.

When it comes to cost effectiveness Excalibr and GMLRS are ridiculously expensive compared with Russias options and are not as amazing as western claims suggest... they are only super cheap alternatives to even more expensive solutions for western countries.

Again, you need to get with the times.

No, you need to stop listening to "Western Experts".

You think Excalibr or GMLRS is better than a 240mm laser guided round that weighs 130kgs at destroying fortified positions?

I understand the unobtanium and the bullshittium they make western weapons is very powerful... but only on the internet and sales brochures.

Too easy to shoot down? These are the people struggling against 2 cycle motor powered drones going 100 mph.

You are not getting it are you.

Russia didn't deploy enormous numbers of drones at the start of the war when Orc air defences were intact... they used mostly observation drones of a relatively small size because as the Americans point out they wont provide the big capable drones because they are just sitting ducks for real air defences.

They are fantastic for use against ISIS, but not so good against Russia or what the Ukraine was 8 months ago.

The middle sized drones like that turkish thing are relatively easy to detect and shoot down if you have the right equipment... and the Russians do.

Their air defence equipment does not form an impenetrable field around the territory they are near to... there will always be gaps, but the combination of jammers and missiles and guns and even lasers now, most GMLRS and Excalibrs fired at Russian forces will get shot down and not reach their target...

Do you get the irony... the idea for guided artillery shells and guided artillery rockets is to save money... a guided artillery shell or rocket might cost 100 times what an unguided round would cost but the saving is in time... supposed to be one shot one kill, and the reduced wear and tear on the launch platform... killing 50 targets a day with one shot each and that German gun might work for a day or two before breaking down.... the problem of course is that if the target is troops in a position they wont be all huddled together in a nice tight group for one round to kill so you are going to have to launch several rounds to deal with the target presented and all of a sudden your bill for ammo has gone up 100 times.

THAT is what the western MIC love about guided shells and think they are so wonderful... the really funny thing is that they still need a drone to find the target coordinates... and Soviet and Russian artillery mostly has laser guided rounds too so when their drone is present they can lase targets for even better accuracy than sat nav can provide.

When firing at normal area targets guided rounds don't help... they just make the artillery attack vastly more expensive using much fewer rounds.

A Ukrainian offensive with 50K soldiers attacking, you want artillery... but not guided artillery.

But then Russian guns are not exploding from over use like the orc guns because they have replacement barrels and other support that the Orcs don't have... for the foreign gear the orcs don't even have spare parts.

Russia will be working hard on new air defence systems that can deal with the only problem drones which are the tiny short range ones that are slow and hard to detect and deal with... they mentioned they are introducing lasers and other equipment like jammers to deal with such things, but perhaps the solution will also be drone based...

November 21, 01:15
Military operation in Ukraine

The Rocket Forces of the Russian Armed Forces reported on the active use of the latest MLRS "Tornado" in the Northern Military District

Lieutenant General Mikhail Matveevsky noted that artillery in the special military operation "god of war"

MOSCOW, 21 November. /TASS/. During a special military operation (SVO) in Ukraine, the Russian military is actively using the latest multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS) Tornado-G and Tornado-S. This was reported to TASS by the head of the Missile Forces and Artillery of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, Lieutenant General Mikhail Matveevsky.

Answering the question whether the latest Russian MLRS are used in the NMD zone, he said: "Yes, we are actively using the Tornado-G and Tornado-S systems along with Soviet-made MLRS."

On November 19, Russia celebrated the Day of Missile Forces and Artillery. In this regard, Matveevsky stressed that "artillery is still the 'god of war' even in a special military operation."

"Tornado-G" - 122 mm MLRS, development of the Grad MLRS. The new system can fire from unprepared positions in an automated mode, which allows you to quickly open fire, after which, directly from the cockpit, transfer the artillery part of the system to the stowed position and change location. The maximum firing range is up to 40 km. In terms of combat effectiveness, it is 15 times superior to the predecessor of the Grad MLRS, the ratio of fuel mass to hull mass in the new missile has been improved 10 times. It began to enter service with the Russian army in 2012.

Long-range MLRS "Tornado-S" 300 mm is a modified version of the "Smerch" system and can fire at targets at a distance of 120 km and cover an area of ​​more than 60 hectares. The complex is capable of firing both single rockets and a full salvo. It began to enter service at the end of 2016.

The developer of these systems is the Tula JSC NPO Splav, the manufacturer is the Perm PJSC Motovilikhinskiye Zavody. TASS reported on November 16 that as part of the implementation of the state defense order, another batch of Tornado-G and Tornado-S MLRS was delivered to the units of the Russian troops.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/16381555

Ok sure Garry, whatever you say. Unguided is just better than guided. I read you loud and clear.

That is not the case at all.

Multiple rocket artillery systems are machine guns for use against mass attacks or targets you can't spot individually (ie like in a forest).

The small arm equivalent is a Machine gun... but a machine gun uses cheap ammo in great volumes which means pathetic profit margin for profit driven western MICs whose brilliant idea to upgrade the machine gun into the 21st century is to but a sniper scope on the machine gun and guided rounds... of course that means each shot cost about the same as a brand new car so you only have a 6 shot magazine now instead of a 200 round belt.

Now dicks like you are telling the rest of the world how backward the rest of the world is to continue using normal machine guns when these sniper machine guns are where it is at.

Now for a police operation against a gang of 5 or 6 criminals such a weapon might be fantastic, but when the Orcs suddenly start moving forward and batteries of Smerch and Grad don't have enough rockets to deal with the incoming targets how the hell is your pussy little HIMARS going to cope?

Moving to HIMARS means you completely lose any capacity for suppressive fire.

Not to say HIMARS is useless, the Russians are developing HERMES which has terminal guidance and in the new model a manouvering terminal stage so it is almost impossible to shoot down, but pretending HIMARS is anything other than US MIC corruption is just fooling yourself.

When the US introduced the M270 they called it amazing... it was the first time I had heard the phrase Grid Square remover being coined... but its costs caught up with it... lots of countries that adopted it withdrew their gun tube artillery... well why would they need both?

But even the US can't afford it so they developed the HIMARS... how can you claim that to be a success?

Were any smerch being produced serially between 2010 and feb.24 2022, other than 15 tornado S?

Russia did not want to build any weapons system which had a Belarussian vehicle as a base.
After what happened with Ukraine who knew if Belarus would be next.
The failure of the Russian heavy tractor vehicle program (Platforma-O) meant they have to use Belarussian vehicles after all.

https://en.topwar.ru/178767-jelektrohod-platforma-o-glavnyj-proval-rossijskogo-voennogo-avtomobilestroenija.html

Why did the russian truck fail?

So its literally because of the Belarussian truck that russia produced no smerch launchers and only 15 tornado S launchers between 2010 and 2022?

Why didn't they just mass produce kamaz based smerch or tornado S with 6 rockets? This vehicle was demonstrated in 2007? Why wait for the platform 0?

Its easy as everything is late in Russia...it's simple, huge corruption, taking state money for some projects that no one wants, and the project bureaus try in every way to push them through, on which years and money are spent, as well as crazy demands from the state for them. So it's almost impossible to avoid all of that, and even if it's all there, it takes time and then it's overcome and needs to be refined. Often the army does not ask anything, so new systems are introduced through political connections. AK12 is that system, when they have the insane requirement of a two-shot burst, Shoygu demand that because some of moronic generals tell him that this is good for soldiers...they will reduce the consumption of ammunition in two shot burst...instead they work on problems this rifle has it...

I think they should just make a system with the BAZ-6909 vehicle as a base. It is already in production for the S-400.
That should have enough performance to serve as a base for a Tornado-S.

So was the platform-O program canceled or just re-designed? Because of NATzO's ever expanding war of aggression against Russia, the development and immediate deployment of these units are crucial for Russia's armed forces

If you read the article I posted the link to, Platform-O was "approved", but then basically not used for anything important.

Because they assigned the task of designing this to a company without experience in making heavy vehicles of that size, the company decided to use electric drive in order to not design complex heavy duty hydropneumatic systems they had no experience in designing. But the drive train turned out way heavier than expected and the electric drive has loads of issues with crossing water. So, this does not have anywhere near the hauling performance it was supposed to have. Probably also really expensive since it seems to have used one electric engine per wheel. Supposedly it is now being redesigned to use one electric engine per axle.

Anyway, just like I said, the Russian government can fix this problem for Tornado-S by designing a new vehicle using the BAZ-6909 tractor. But for the larger theater systems like Iskander or Bal, or strategic systems like Yars, still need to find a replacement to Platform-O. It remains to be seen what the Russian government will do on this matter.

Its easy as everything is late in Russia...it's simple, huge corruption, taking state money for some projects that no one wants,

When you say huge corruption, I think you mean huge bureaucracy... a 61 billion US per year on defence Russia has very little corruption in its MIC.

Upgrading older vehicles with new modern equipment is as good as building new vehicles... the target on the receiving end wont know if they are getting shot at by old or new vehicles.

The new long range systems are the Coalition and the new model MRLS, Tornado-S and Tornado-G.

They have lots of other similar truck based systems like the new TOS and of course armoured vehicles that carry around cruise and ballistic missiles like Iskander and soon no doubt even bigger longer ranged missiles too.