The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Vann.

In my list of the most rusophobic nations in Europe I put Poland on 2nd place, after Ukraine. But a war between Poland and Russia - even a limited one - is not possible. The best NATO can hope for is Polish troops in Ukraine - Polish Vietnam basically - and so far we don't have solid evidence of any significant Polish forces in Donbass.

par far wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Lukashenko has ordered the border with Ukraine strengthened. He says it is not that they fear Ukraine or that belarus has anything that Ukraine wants to attack, but to make sure that the border is secure, particulary from uncontrolled passage of arms over the border. Clearly he expects chaos soon. http://www.belta.by/president/view/lukashenko-belarusi-neobhodimo-usilivat-juzhnye-granitsy-159386-2015/

All the countries bordering Ukraine are strengthening their borders over the past little while.

Ivan the Colorado wrote:
Looked all over the web, nothing found. Be nice if the OSCE provided numbers and nationality of the observers. Speaking of which, we should get enough people here to email them about that. Really would help with their transparency as they have very little now. Small chance of it succeeding, but things like this have worked before and it could help keep them more accountable and to be fair to the people suffering in the Donbass.

Khepesh wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Look at the modernized Su27P's they're barely at 1999 level. Unless most of those were shipped in Israel or elsewhere for a total overhaul, I don't see how they're going to have better aircraft within the constraint of them being former-Soviet/WarPact. And again sources depict a very bleak picture around 2013. About 20 flyable 29's, 18 27's, 15-20 Su-25's. About 15 Su-24's. less than 50 Mil Mi 24's (with about 12 in UN livery).

All those old and under-maintained, with relatively little value against heavy airspace interdiction assets. This means that "Northern Wind" can pretty much lock and load all of the Donbass without even leaving that certain country.

I hardly meant they will have better equipment per se, but they will, I am sure, be better prepared for war. If VSN had an airforce I am sure they would use it, anybody would, so I am sure that ukrops will use theirs in some capacity. If a need arises to hit a VSN tank column fast, will ukrops say that they cannot possibly use their ground attack air assets because they might get shot down, as on that basis nobody leaves barracks for war as they might get shot.

Dforce wrote:

Ivan the Colorado wrote:
Looked all over the web, nothing found. Be nice if the OSCE provided numbers and nationality of the observers. Speaking of which, we should get enough people here to email them about that. Really would help with their transparency as they have very little now. Small chance of it succeeding, but things like this have worked before and it could help keep them more accountable and to be fair to the people suffering in the Donbass.

I guess the state censorship is weaker here in the evil West, because I found what you are looking for:

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/177251?download=true

26 Russians!

Vann7 wrote:

--- snip --- 

So for example..

the National Endowed for Democracy or (NED) ..here is the website..

http://www.ned.org

IF you read their own website.. they claim to operate in more than 90 countries in the world.
to defend "Democracy" and freedom" . How is that? does the US government really believe
in "democracy" and "freedom" and a "better future" as they did in Lybia or the organization is a fraud?

Interestingly they do not operate or very little activity in NATO countries.. they operate fully only in Nations Not aligned with US imperialism.  So there is no NED in Israel for example.. or NED In Turkey or in Poland. or Kuwait.. No NED offices in Repressive states that are loyal to American IMperialism.  

The American Terrorist NGO organization (NED) ,hides behind a peaceful humanitarian cover ,funded Directly by US congress , can call for a 50,000 protest in Venezuela.. coordinated with the CIA..  and they tell them.. that the protest have to be peaceful.. ( to make sure the agency dont get blamed later for the terror attacks) ,so thousands of peaceful civilians are fooled into a trap.

That organization is behind the Coup in Ukraine and the COup in Georgia too. the one in Egypt too that put Morsi in power .and helped to organize the violence and civil war in Lybia, organize the initial violence in Syria. And behind the violence in venezuela and Brazil too. and behind the protest in Russia too.. is simply US congress money ,used to provoke violence in nations they perceive as a threat to American IMperialism. they failed a revolution in IRAN.. you can read more about US Congress color revolutions ,and the many tentacles (NED) have ,that is nothing but a CIA Front.. that provide the information for their criminal activities.

here a French Journalist explain you how NED American terrorist organization operates..

http://www.voltairenet.org/article160764.html

Is an American CIA front.. that collect information of potential terrorist recruits for the agency..
Later another american NGO or the CIA hire criminals to shoot at the peaceful they told to organize and protest. So essentially all this peaceful protesters with good intentions of a better future were mislead and used to stage for other purposes ,to stage a major violent event ,where the government will be blamed and they not told about it..that criminals also will be hired to Shoot at them.. im sure even the most crazy fanatic ,American Fanboy on this forums..,will ever attend a protest if they were told snipers will be firing at them for a "Greater cause" of removing from Power the government in Russia. That they will be used as Involuntary martyrs . So idiots like Navalny ,PussyRiots or Nemetsov (oh wait already killed) who are more useful death than alive ,,risk their lives for being popular ,and opposing  PUTIN.. This is how the lovely Freedom America operates.. IF any opposition activist to RussianGovernment is popular ,but stand not a chance in politics ,they are a likely candidate for being used as martyrs without them being told.
the criminals could be given Police Uniforms too...to make it more real... that the "Government is killing" them..

--- snip ---

Dforce wrote:

sektor wrote:

Dforce wrote:

Neutrality wrote:Look Dforce, if your sole intention is to piss off Russian posters by your "epic trole mate xDDDD eeksdeee!!" attitude then I suggest you just stay away. You obviously know people support Donbass here so why bother? I remember you clearly from MP.net and your unconditional support of Kiev. I'll never forget you and your friends like Asheren, kalerab, CourageAboveAllValues and the other batshit insane people from that place.

I honestly do not think I am the topic here, and if you can show me where I have been trolling you are welcome. Besides, I do not think it okay to call other posters "batshit insane".

Seriously man  you are not welcomed here. Go back to cesspool called themess.

Somehow I doubt you are in charge of the member admission department on this site, so if you just want to complain more about me you are welcome to do so via the internal message system. Let us discuss Ukraine here and not me, shal we?

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Once again, notice how that very logic, taking off=death or near death kept the UA AF at bay during most of the war. Ukraine can't afford to lose any aircraft. Given that CAS would be regarded as a serious escalation by that certain neighbour, this also means that every flying object that flies around the AO under 10K is going the way of the Mohicans. Needless to explain you why that's problematic for a standing army like the UA armed forces. So basically I stand by my opinion, there's no real threat added by the flying assets of Ukraine. Would it be more painful for any NAF effort to deal with that supplemental theat? Off course. Would it really change the course of war, we've seen that it doesn't, courtesy of a helpful neighbour.

Khepesh wrote:When this war starts it will probably be existential to Kiev junta, so for what reason will they not use their air arm, what will they hold it back for, to protect Borispol when the rats run?

franco wrote:Vostok training exercises and NO that is not a T-72B3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0oYznENnYg

Khepesh wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Once again, notice how that very logic, taking off=death or near death kept the UA AF at bay during most of the war. Ukraine can't afford to lose any aircraft. Given that CAS would be regarded as a serious escalation by that certain neighbour, this also means that every flying object that flies around the AO under 10K is going the way of the Mohicans. Needless to explain you why that's problematic for a standing army like the UA armed forces. So basically I stand by my opinion, there's no real threat added by the flying assets of Ukraine. Would it be more painful for any NAF effort to deal with that supplemental theat? Off course. Would it really change the course of war, we've seen that it doesn't, courtesy of a helpful neighbour.

When this war starts it will probably be existential to Kiev junta, so for what reason will they not use their air arm, what will they hold it back for, to protect Borispol when the rats run? In Spring last year everybody was saying categorically that use of Grad on a city would be seen as "serious escalation" by the certain neighbor, seems not.

Godric wrote:

franco wrote:Vostok training exercises and NO that is not a T-72B3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0oYznENnYg

clearly B1s tracks are the old style as well from the 1980s

a lot of people are getting confused with the T-72BM and the T-72B3 the biggest difference is in the tracks

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Dforce wrote:

Ivan the Colorado wrote:
Looked all over the web, nothing found. Be nice if the OSCE provided numbers and nationality of the observers. Speaking of which, we should get enough people here to email them about that. Really would help with their transparency as they have very little now. Small chance of it succeeding, but things like this have worked before and it could help keep them more accountable and to be fair to the people suffering in the Donbass.

I guess the state censorship is weaker here in the evil West, because I found what you are looking for:

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/177251?download=true

26 Russians!

On over 800 "observers"...

JohninMK wrote:More 'you can't keep glossing over this OSCE' comments and data from Moscow. Then we have Poro summoned to Berlin.

MOSCOW, August 18. /TASS/. Russia has informed observers of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) that the Ukrainian army is building up weaponry with a caliber of over 100 millimeters along the disengagement line, Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said on Tuesday.

"Russian representatives in the Joint Control and Coordination Center informed employees of the OSCE’s Special Monitoring Mission of the buildup of weapons with a caliber of over 100 mm by the Ukrainian Armed Forces along the disengagement line between the sides," the spokeswoman said in a video commentary. "In particular, it was established that six self-propelled artillery systems and three tanks were mounted in Novotroitskoye, 11 Grad [multiple launch rocket] systems arrived in Krasnogorovka, nine self-propelled artillery systems, two Pion artillery guns and four Grad systems were deployed near Tarasovka and Vodyanoye," her comment said.

"Two Grad systems were deployed in Mirnoye, two D-30 howitzers of the 152-mm caliber were placed in Talakovka, 10 D-30 howitzers were deployed in Starognatovka and Novognatovka. Besides, the personnel of a private military firm has arrived in Starognatovka, and the movement of a Ukrainian convoy of three towed D-30 howitzers of the 122-mm caliber has been registered near Mayorsk," Zakharova said.

She said "relevant information, including photo and video materials on the mentioned violations, has been handed to the OSCE SMM."



PARIS, August 18. /TASS/. German Chancellor Angela Merkel, French President Francois Hollande and Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko will hold a meeting in Berlin on Monday to discuss deterioration of the situation in east Ukraine, French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said Tuesday.

"I hope the meeting on Monday will make it possible for us to move forward on both points [withdrawal of armaments and ceasefire]. We hope the decision is found in December at the latest," he was quoted by media as saying.

OminousSpudd wrote:

After a little calculation from Dforce's link, 427/525 members are from Russophobic/NATO member countries. 50 from the US alone, while smaller nations such as Poland get in with 27 members. Makes the 26 Russians look pretty sad really eh?

Try again Dforce.