The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

gregoire wrote:

whir wrote:quoting 5 separate articles / images

Maybe it's just my perception but lately a lot of LPR and DPR militiamen get caught. Almost like there's a mole within novorossiya.

MOSCOW, May 29. /TASS/. Russian President Vladimir Putin, in a phone conversation with French President Francois Hollande and German Chancellor Angela Merkel, expressed concern over shelling by Ukrainian servicemen of civilian facilities, the Kremlin reported Friday.

"The Russian side stressed its concern in connection with more frequent incidents of shelling by the Ukrainian army of civilian facilities that resulted in deaths of civilians," the statement said. "They exchanged opinions on possible additional measures designed to ensure strict observation of the ceasefire regime and de-escalation of tensions," it said. The Kremlin said "the crisis situation in Ukraine was discussed in the context of the necessity to implement by southeast conflict participants of all items of the Package of Measures agreed in Minsk on February 12 this year." "It was noted that rigorous implementation of the agreements on withdrawal of heavy armaments under OSCE supervision and establishment of demilitarized zones at the contact line is important," the statement said.

The Kremlin said "special attention will be paid to the activity of four working subgroups in the framework of the Contact Group." "The leaders discussed the course of implementation of the Minsk agreements, including the schedule of continuation of contacts at the expert level," presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov said. The Kremlin press service used only that wording. As for the Elysee Palace in Paris, it said the agreement has been reached that the next meeting in the Normandy format (Russia, France, Germany, Ukraine) at the level of deputy foreign ministers or political directors will be held June 10 in Paris wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:These people...when they know good and well shelling came from Ukraine armed forces....

Ukraine: Weaponry banned under Minsk used to shell Gorlovka - OSCE monitor

Werewolf wrote:Haven't seen a paycheck, but i am certainly a Putinversteher and Kremlin Bot, because it is not possible to see reality like it is it must be Putin paying people to see things how they are. There are no Coup de etats of the west only Kremlin paid trolls believe that.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Werewolf wrote:Haven't seen a paycheck, but i am certainly a Putinversteher and Kremlin Bot, because it is not possible to see reality like it is it must be Putin paying people to see things how they are. There are no Coup de etats of the west only Kremlin paid trolls believe that.

Did you forget we're on the Kremlin pay roll!!!...According to the biggest prima donna on the forum, the same guy who threw a temper tantrum and publicly declared he was 'running away from home' not once, but twice! What would we do without him!?!?

He claimed we were all paid agents of Vladimir Putin...He must be right because no one else has ever been to Russia or speaks Russian, before him or after him, he knows better...because he's Alpha and Omega, and he's ever so omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent...the Dagestani soiled diaper!

higurashihougi wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Werewolf wrote:Haven't seen a paycheck, but i am certainly a Putinversteher and Kremlin Bot, because it is not possible to see reality like it is it must be Putin paying people to see things how they are. There are no Coup de etats of the west only Kremlin paid trolls believe that.

Did you forget we're on the Kremlin pay roll!!!...According to the biggest prima donna on the forum, the same guy who threw a temper tantrum and publicly declared he was 'running away from home' not once, but twice! What would we do without him!?!?

He claimed we were all paid agents of Vladimir Putin...He must be right because no one else has ever been to Russia or speaks Russian, before him or after him, he knows better...because he's Alpha and Omega, and he's ever so omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent...the Dagestani soiled diaper!

I haven't seen any sight of money from Moskva... are they ignoring my salary ?

higurashihougi wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Werewolf wrote:Haven't seen a paycheck, but i am certainly a Putinversteher and Kremlin Bot, because it is not possible to see reality like it is it must be Putin paying people to see things how they are. There are no Coup de etats of the west only Kremlin paid trolls believe that.

Did you forget we're on the Kremlin pay roll!!!...According to the biggest prima donna on the forum, the same guy who threw a temper tantrum and publicly declared he was 'running away from home' not once, but twice! What would we do without him!?!?

He claimed we were all paid agents of Vladimir Putin...He must be right because no one else has ever been to Russia or speaks Russian, before him or after him, he knows better...because he's Alpha and Omega, and he's ever so omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent...the Dagestani soiled diaper!

Let's organize a strike and demonsatration against Putin... because for months he hasn't paid our salary

mutantsushi wrote:
Hi gregoire, it improves the readability of the forums if you ...

wrote:Alternative reality
May 30th 2015 | MOSCOW | From the print edition

Vladimir Putin concocts a new story on Ukraine, leaving the West wondering what he is up to

IN THE original instalment of the “hybrid war” that it launched against Ukraine last year, Russia’s propaganda machine depicted its neighbour as a neo-Nazi state whose soldiers burnt villages and crucified children in the Russian-speaking east. But after the vast military parade Russia staged on May 9th, marking its victory over German (and by implication Ukrainian) fascism, a new story-line started to take shape. Ukraine is now portrayed as a failed state. It has defaulted on its debts and violated every international norm, and its Western sponsors are panicking. A new Maidan revolution could happen at any time—the smell of burnt tyres is in the air.

Western leaders, the story goes, have realised their mistake and are flocking to make amends with Vladimir Putin, the magnanimous Russian leader who tried to warn them against supporting Ukraine. First it was Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, who sought an audience with Mr Putin. Then it was John Kerry, America’s secretary of state, who flew all the way to Sochi to pay his respects. “America has realised that Ukraine is not worth spoiling its relationship with Russia,” proclaimed Channel One, Russia’s main television station. Russia’s military might and its alliance with China, the channel implied, had forced America back to the table.

The images of war which dominated Russian television for the past year have been supplanted by tales of diplomatic victories and Ukraine’s failures. If war resumes, according to Channel One, it will be launched by the desperate Ukrainians. This new narrative is not meant only for a Russian audience. No sooner had Mr Kerry left Sochi than Russia sent its emissaries to Kiev to tell Petro Poroshenko, Ukraine’s president, that America and Europe had dumped him. The other intended audience was the European Union, which on June 22nd will decide whether to prolong its sanctions on Russia. If America is willing to make amends, Moscow is asking, what is the point of spoiling good business with us?

In fact, American sources insist Mr Kerry’s visit was meant not to make amends but to ascertain Mr Putin’s thinking on several issues. Will Mr Putin work against America on Iran? Is he willing to co-operate in Syria? Will he stop meddling in Ukraine? The answer to all three questions seemed to be no. Mr Kerry also delivered a message in response to Mr Putin’s nuclear sabre-rattling: do not go too far in testing NATO’s military resolve, as it will backfire. Mr Putin spun Mr Kerry’s visit as a diplomatic triumph, but he now faces the question of what to do next. Continue reading.

New York Times wrote:Russian Military Insignia Are Reported in Ukraine
By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN MAY 29, 2015

MOSCOW — International monitors tracking cease-fire violations in eastern Ukraine reported Friday that they had encountered four people wearing military uniforms with Russian insignia in a town about 25 miles southeast of the regional capital of Donetsk, which is controlled by pro-Russian separatists.

In its daily report, the special monitoring mission of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe said a young man had reported that “an unknown armed group” had occupied the grounds of a former children’s campground in the town, Petrivske. According to the report, monitors “spoke to two women, both wearing military uniforms, with caps with Russian Federation Armed Forces insignia.”

“During the conversation with the two women, a vehicle with Russian Federation number plates stopped next to the O.S.C.E. vehicles and two armed men, similarly dressed, exited the car and ordered the women to stop the conversation,” the report stated. Behind a fence surrounding the camp, the monitors “observed one infantry fighting vehicle,” according to the report. The monitors could not enter the camp.

The report was a rare allegation by the international monitors of a possible sighting of active Russian military personnel in eastern Ukraine. The monitors, however, did not identify the women or men who were observed in uniform in Petrivske, and there was no way to independently verify the monitors’ account. Continue reading.

Yahoo wrote:Germany warns Ukraine truce turning 'very fragile'
By Oleksandr Savochenko with Dmytro Gorshkov in Pisky, Ukraine 10 hours ago

Kiev (AFP) - Germany's foreign minister warned Friday that the situation in Ukraine's separatist east was turning "very fragile" and required all sides to refocus their efforts on salvaging a three-month truce.

In February a ceasefire agreement was reached in Minsk during marathon talks between the leaders of Germany and France, Poroshenko and Russia's Vladimir Putin. It marked the sides' second attempt at halting a 13-month war that has killed 6,300 and plunged East-West relations to a post-Cold War low.

The truce succeeded in containing the fighting but failed to put an end to daily clashes around some of the most disputed hotspots.

"We can see that the ceasefire today is very fragile, and this causes some alarms," Steinmeier told reporters after talks with Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk.

"There are a lot of ceasefire violations," he said through his Ukrainian translator. "Now, we have to think and find a way to turn this into a more stable situation." Continue reading.

euronews wrote:Ukraine's former resort city of Shyrokine is now a ghost town

"... near separatist held Mariupol... "

Russia Insider wrote:God damn you Poroshenko! - grandmother in tears after her grandchild was killed, May 27th Horlivka

Karl Haushofer wrote:

whir wrote:

Russia Insider wrote:God damn you Poroshenko! - grandmother in tears after her grandchild was killed, May 27th Horlivka

It is a cruel world.

If these civilians were aligned with the West the whole media would be screaming bloody murder.

But since they are aligned with Russia nobody will say a word and people in the West are secretly happy that the Donbass people - including the civilians - are dying.

The Donbass people made a mistake of aligning themselves with Russia, since Russia is so hated in the West and Russia is too weak to help them in any way.

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Ivan the Colorado wrote:

Karl Haushofer wrote:

whir wrote:

Russia Insider wrote:God damn you Poroshenko! - grandmother in tears after her grandchild was killed, May 27th Horlivka

It is a cruel world.

If these civilians were aligned with the West the whole media would be screaming bloody murder.

But since they are aligned with Russia nobody will say a word and people in the West are secretly happy that the Donbass people - including the civilians - are dying.

The Donbass people made a mistake of aligning themselves with Russia, since Russia is so hated in the West and Russia is too weak to help them in any way.

The people of Donbass are essentially Russian people on historically Russian land, they never "chose" to align themselves with Russia. Russia is not in any way weak right now. If Russia was as weak as it had been before NATO ships would be moored in Sevastopol and the rebellion in the Donbass would have been crushed brutally. The problem is that Russia cannot openly solve the conflict in Donetsk and Lugansk without hurting the Russian people. This war can no longer be solved by diplomatic means in my opinion. At the same time, the war is stuck in a hot stalemate where innocents living in Novorossiya are being killed by the Junta while Novorossiya cannot engage the Ukrop troops due to military and diplomatic consequences. Personally, I see this conflict getting worse before we see it end.

You say that Russia is not weak, but yet you say that Russia cannot help Donbass people due to outside pressure (diplomatic consequences). This makes Russia weak imo.

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Monarchist wrote:

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Ivan the Colorado wrote:

Karl Haushofer wrote:

whir wrote:

Russia Insider wrote:God damn you Poroshenko! - grandmother in tears after her grandchild was killed, May 27th Horlivka

It is a cruel world.

If these civilians were aligned with the West the whole media would be screaming bloody murder.

But since they are aligned with Russia nobody will say a word and people in the West are secretly happy that the Donbass people - including the civilians - are dying.

The Donbass people made a mistake of aligning themselves with Russia, since Russia is so hated in the West and Russia is too weak to help them in any way.

The people of Donbass are essentially Russian people on historically Russian land, they never "chose" to align themselves with Russia. Russia is not in any way weak right now. If Russia was as weak as it had been before NATO ships would be moored in Sevastopol and the rebellion in the Donbass would have been crushed brutally. The problem is that Russia cannot openly solve the conflict in Donetsk and Lugansk without hurting the Russian people. This war can no longer be solved by diplomatic means in my opinion. At the same time, the war is stuck in a hot stalemate where innocents living in Novorossiya are being killed by the Junta while Novorossiya cannot engage the Ukrop troops due to military and diplomatic consequences. Personally, I see this conflict getting worse before we see it end.

You say that Russia is not weak, but yet you say that Russia cannot help Donbass people due to outside pressure (diplomatic consequences). This makes Russia weak imo.

Russia is weak because many of those that hold the economic power are not russian neither by ethnicity nor are they orthodox so they care less if russians cease to exist as long as they keep their money.
Most of Russias economy is in off-shore banks, most of the elite in Russia hold money, estates in the west their children wrok, study, live there. They are not ready to loose this because of Donbass, or Belarus or russians living in the Baltic etc.

I'm not expert but I have read about similar things as you write.

There are two clans inside the Kremlin. The nationalists/patriots and the pro-Western oligarchs. Putin is somewhere in the middle. The nationalists would like to help and free Novorossiya, but the pro-Western/oligarchic clan is preventing this because they would lose their money and property in the West. So far Russia has not been able to decisively back Novorossiya because of this.