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61 posters

    Venezuela crisis

    Poll

    Will usa be successful in installing it's puppet

    [ 9 ]
    Venezuela crisis - Page 12 Bar_left25%Venezuela crisis - Page 12 Bar_right [25%] 
    [ 27 ]
    Venezuela crisis - Page 12 Bar_left75%Venezuela crisis - Page 12 Bar_right [75%] 

    Total Votes: 36
    JohninMK
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    Venezuela crisis - Page 12 Empty Re: Venezuela crisis

    Post  JohninMK Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:40 am


    Rob Lee
    ‏ @RALee85
    Jan 28

    Plenty of Russian arms on display yesterday when Maduro visited Venezuela's 41st Armored Brigade, including T-72B1, BMP-3 (BMP-3M/BMP-3K/BREM-L), 2S23 Nona-SVK mortars, ZU-23, BTR-82A, BM-21 Grad MLRS, 2S19 Msta-S, FO MT-LB, and Ural-4320/43206 trucks.
    https://dambiev.livejournal.com/1468327.html

    Notably, Maduro drove around on a Chinese Norinco ZBD-05 amphibious fighting vehicle. Russia lacks an effective amphibious fighting vehicle (its NI still use BTR-82A vehicles) with sufficient amphibious capability, so it will likely continue to lose future foreign tenders.

    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:50 am

    Don't know if this is true or what it might portend.


    Anatoly Kurmanaev
    ‏Verified account @AKurmanaev
    4h4 hours ago

    Russia’s Lukoil, one of PdVSA’s main suppliers of oil products, froze its contract with Venezuela today. Moscow Corp. not prepared to risk ban from U.S. financial system for Maduro.



    Then there is this interesting history of Russian/Venezuelan relations, worth the read

    Casey Michel
    ????????
    ‏Verified account @cjcmichel
    5h5 hours ago

    'The Venezuelan opposition has warned Russia’s loans and investments could be at risk if it comes to power. In response, the Kremlin continues to support the Maduro regime. Yet its willingness to throw good money after bad appears to have run out.'


    https://www.ridl.io/en/sechin-s-folly/
    BKP
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    Post  BKP Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:54 am

    Man, too much to deal with this week to follow this thread consistently, and things are accelerating. Trying to keep us as limited time allows.

    GarryB wrote:The US has screwed up coup attempts in Venezuela in the past
    Yes they have, and I'm hoping they'll do it again here with tremendously embarrassing and self-damaging repercussions.

    GarryB wrote:I suspect the cancer that Chaves died from was cooked up in a CIA lab somewhere as revenge.
    I've seen speculations of that in various articles and commentaries over the years. I've not seen substantiation of it, but I am personally inclined to give much credibility to such suspicions.

    GarryB wrote:
    Maduro should say that he will hold elections... as soon as Spain recognises their separatists rights and released their political prisoners, the UK releases a certain political prisoner in the Equadorian embassy, France holds elections to replace Micron right now, the US lets the native Americans take control of the country, the Australians allow Aboriginal rule, etc etc  After all that is done he will hold elections for the west... otherwise he will follow the Venezuelan elections like he is supposed to...
    Even generally astute people can fall into confusing two things: the bottom-line reality of geopolitics, and the moralizing drivel they feed the masses to secure domestic consent and/or apathy through the use of false narratives.

    Maduro could do all those things you stated and it would be in  real reality admirable and righteous to do so. But, it's through the narratives constructed by the MSM that most NATO-lands dwellers form their view of reality. Accordingly, Maduro's actions would be almost completely ignored by the western MSM. To whatever small  extent they weren't ignored, they they would be sneered at and and summarily dismissed; what else is to be expected from "socialist dictators," you understand....

    The bottom line is that what the US is doing, along with the UK et. al. toadying and playing right along, is gangster shit: lying, intimidating, killing and robbing. This is why mob-themed films and TV series can often work so well as metaphors for what happens at the highest levels of power.

    BTW, deep down, most everyday dopes desperately want to believe the false narratives because they like the psychological cushioning and absolvement these false narratives provide.

    The world is a smoke-and-mirrors game. If most people in the west were really forced to face what their own governments, the ones they "elect," do in their names... it would be like that moment when you lift a large sheet of plywood off of a patch of lush grass its been sitting on for months or years and see exactly what's there underneath...


    Last edited by BKP on Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:05 am; edited 1 time in total
    BKP
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    Venezuela crisis - Page 12 Empty Re: Venezuela crisis

    Post  BKP Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:03 am

    higurashihougi
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    Venezuela crisis - Page 12 Empty Re: Venezuela crisis

    Post  higurashihougi Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:05 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Don't bury him yet, he may go underground for months or years like Saddam Hussein & Bin Laden did, leading an insurgency.
    They have more $ & gold stashed elsewhere, & China, Russia & Turkey may provide more $.
    Maduro isn't a communist, but a Bolivarian socialist & a nationalist like Hồ Chí Minh of Vietnam was.
    http://www.pravdareport.com/world/americas/29-01-2019/142207-us_hegemony_venezuela-0/

    Hồ Chí Minh is a Marxist-Lenninist and that does not prevent him from being a nationalist.

    Western propaganda usually portrays nationalists and communists as different entities but in fact it is the communists who protect their countries against various foreign invaders while the self-proclaimed "nationalist" are sucking US d*** at California.

    And by the way Chavismo are not communists. The Bolivar revolution did not eradicate pro-US oppositions parties although at the moment I think they should.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:32 am

    Agreed
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:54 am

    Hồ Chí Minh is a Marxist-Lenninist and that does not prevent him from being a nationalist.
    He, Kim Il Sung & Fidel Castro were talked sweet with the Soviets & just pretended to be communists to get Soviet aid.
    OTH, there r still many Kibbutzes (communes) in Israel (created with Stalin's help to weaken the British Empire) but its by no means socialist; Zionism is nothing more than an ideology of European Jewish (Ashkenazim) nationalism.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:17 am

    Fidel asked for US help initially and was of course rejected because what they wanted to be released from was basically white man colonialism... the Koreans just wanted a reunited country that was split by the Japs.... the Vietnamese didn't fight for communism... it was Soviet and Chinese communism that delivered the weapons and support to help them kick the french and the Americans out of their country... if the Soviets had been Hindu I doubt the Vietnamese would have refused their help because of that...

    So many conflict disguised as communist expansion because the truth was it was actually revolts against european colonialism... pushed towards the communist Soviets and the communist chinese because the peace loving democratic west survived on the rich mans club that owned the land and resources in these countries...
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:21 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:He, Kim Il Sung & Fidel Castro were talked sweet with the Soviets & just pretended to be communists to get Soviet aid.

    Hồ Chí Minh is a Marxist Lenninist. But he is also a nationalist.

    Marxism and nationalism are not mutually exclusive. Western propaganda tries to make them seems so in order to divide and weaken patriotic movement against colonialism and neo-colonialism.

    The West only prefer the extremist kind of fake nationalism who drives people into meaningless conflict to weaken the small countries... so that they can enter these countries and establish their domination there.

    We have to make a clear distinction between the real patriots and the ones who pretend to be so... people like Tie Eater or Porkie who misuse the name of patriotism to wage wars and drive the whole nation into a shithole.

    At the end of the day the nation belongs to working class, i.e. the people who work to maintain it.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:19 pm

    US Prepares for Battle Over Venezuelan Oil Refiner Citgo

    5,000 US Troops to Colombia? Officials Won’t Rule It Out



    People Who Care About Democracy Don’t Plot Coups Abroad

    The Kremlin approved the readiness of Maduro to negotiate with the opposition

    Venezuelan opposition will revise the cost of arms contracts with Russia
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:39 pm

    The supreme court pretty much does not recognize this other guy. Maduro has the support of the military while this other guy does not. He is making a lot of bold statements as if he is already president but of course, he isn't. No one in the country recognizes him so his "rule" will be very, very short lived.

    Surprised Supreme court hasn't asked for his arrest yet.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:15 pm

    True, but the US will find some1 else in his stead.
    Cold shower for Trump: "Let the Russian submarines surface in the Gulf of Mexico"
    https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2562083.html
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    ATLASCUB

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    Post  ATLASCUB Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:54 pm

    Good article on the puppet.

    https://grayzoneproject.com/2019/01/29/the-making-of-juan-guaido-how-the-us-regime-change-laboratory-created-venezuelas-coup-leader/#more-1802
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    Post  ATLASCUB Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:01 pm

    Intimidating Russians and running media psy-ops about Russia losing investments trying to cause panic among the Russian elite, fear and ultimately get Russia to balk by moderating its support for Maduro or stopping it all together is a blatant cheap tactic that no one's gonna buy (hopefully no one buys it - Russians have been stupid before (Ukraine) - perhaps that's why they try). Here's to counting Putin and cabal have learned their lesson this time around and not fall for empty "deal" promises then cry in the media he was cheated by the West when he gets fucked sideways later on. Same goes for China. God have pity on the fools that make a "deal" with U.S owned traitors - who, are there, in the first place, to do America's bidding. And America's bidding and strategic interest entail controlling the Venezuelan oil and mineral reserves and booting out China and Russia off the continent.

    So all this chattering about cutting deals with the agents of this power - their chief international rival...... are you fucking stupid or what?

    Simple rationale tells you that the guy who's already in power, who already has pledged to fulfill his promises, is more than likely to get you what you want than a bunch of traitors financed by the U.S throwing intimidation threats to "back off or else" (risk losing the investments and not honoring debts). These rats are not even in power, yet are bluffing a big game while hiding in their vulture nests.

    So many bluffs and psy-ops targeted at everyone. Even the Cubans are getting targeted to back off. Their online media sites have been hit with astroturfers peddling the opp line. Usually their articles are deserted wastelands when it comes to comment base.

    If none of these allies of Venezuela had the power to tilt the balance, (or at the very least pose a formidable opposition to the coup), together, to help the government of Venezuela successfully stop this charade they wouldn't be resorting to such tactics. But they fear a united front. For they thrive on disunity... textbook divide and conquer. It's actually very telling that they fear this unity. For this fear must be based, not in the least, on scenarios they have probably run that show certain actions derailing their plans.

    Their assets in Russia have been very active around this issue lately. Not surprised about that. Kinda surprised however at the sort of NGO's Russia still allows to operate behind the scenes.


    Last edited by ATLASCUB on Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:25 pm; edited 3 times in total
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:04 pm

    For some reason Russia's NGO laws are absolutely fucking stupid. They banned only a handful of NGO's yet thousands of them still work. Hundress been put on foreign owned list but that does jack shit anyway.

    I would just ban every foreign based NGO, period.
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    Post  nomadski Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:21 am

    How do I try and understand society ? During human history and before , humans have waged war . Killed and murdered . Taken others land or food or property . This has happened during many historical epoch . The cause then can not be ideology or race or religion or nationality . These are all variable . Yet war always existed . So what is the constant ? It is that , humans wage war on the weak . If they are strong . If they are in a potential situation of superior force , then they will destroy . Who is weak and who is strong ? Those increasing in number are strong and those decreasing  in number are weak . So in order to stop war , we must protect the weak from the strong . Or face a world where one group ultimately vanquishes and replaces the rest .

    I think if natural law allowed for survival of the strongest ( read : most destructive and brutal ) then ultimately only one species would survive . And we would not see the great diversity in the world . But there is great diversity . This means natural law allows for greatest collective coexistence . And diversity . Most beneficial relationships .
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:57 am

    Russia Vows To Defend Its Venezuelan Oil Assets

    People Who Care About Democracy Don’t Plot Coups Abroad


    "People just have nothing to eat."


    After Venezuela, they plan to deal with Cuba, Nicaragua, & Bolivia, "to finish the job". Version: the return of Cuba was and remains a strategic goal of the United States
    https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2563751.html

    Out of Control: The Story of the Reagan Administration's Secret War in Nicaragua, the Illegal Arms Pipeline, and the Contra Drug Connection


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:15 pm; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : add link)
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    Post  ATLASCUB Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:58 pm

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-push-to-oust-venezuelas-maduro-marks-first-shot-in-plan-to-reshape-latin-america-11548888252

    U.S. Push to Oust Venezuela’s Maduro Marks First Shot in Plan to Reshape Latin America. The Trump administration’s broader aim is to gain leverage over Cuba and curb recent inroads in the region by Russia, Iran and China

    https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/01/venezuela-coup-attempt-part-of-a-larger-project-military-intervention-likely-to-fail.html#more
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:03 am

    But looking at their track record... Libya and Iraq and Syria... the results have been Libya is in chaos leading to mass movement of people from Africa to Europe, the Libyan groups seem to be looking to Russia to help rather than the west, Iran has much more influence in Iraq and Syria than it has had for decades, Russia now has Assads full support and loyalty... because without Russia and Iran he would be dead...

    So what benefit did the US get for all this bullshit and carnage?

    Russia got to test its new weapons and to practise a foreign intervention and test its equipment and tactics... and they seem to be both pretty solid...

    Regarding the Ukraine.... Russia did a lot of trade with the Ukraine and relied on the Ukraine for a lot of parts and components, even more so than Russia was relying on the EU trade for food and other things... but the US coup in the Ukraine that led to where we are today means the Russians have had major ties with both the Ukraine and the EU cut... which was painful and hard, but in the end it made Russia more self sufficient and will mean in future when Russia sells products they will be all Russian, which makes things a lot easier.

    Russia lost a lot of trade with the EU, but the sanctions and attitude from the EU and US has turned Russia to the East and trade with China is now getting to the point where it is replacing the former trade with the EU.

    Personally I hope the Russians work with China on trains rather than Germany...

    But at the end of the day it was ultimately moves by the US that created this situation, but the EU only has itself to blame for blindly doing as Washington tells it to do.

    Will this US attempt at removing Maduro succeed... based on their track record... I doubt it... unless they can murder him... but lets face it... who thinks Chaves died of natural causes?
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:06 am

    GarryB wrote:So what benefit did the US get for all this bullshit and carnage?

    To increase oil price... so that the US "social elite" will have more money at the expense of the whole US economy ? Question
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    Post  GarryB Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:49 am

    The US doesn't want high oil prices... their economy relies on oil... even for central heating of homes and businesses...

    They don't want high oil prices... they want all oil producers producing to more than meet demand so the price of oil goes down.

    Were you not amused when the Americans went cap in hand to Moscow to ask the Russians to increase oil production to compensate for the reduction in oil production they were causing in Iran with all their sanctions and bullshit?
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    Venezuela crisis - Page 12 Empty What do you see here? I see something similar to Pres. Assad in Syria. Support by the military

    Post  Russophile Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:10 am

    https://twitter.com/NicolasMaduro/status/1091429637501186048
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:57 am

    After loosing (or at least not winning) in Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria, "the empire strikes back" in Venezuela, drawing a line in the jungle. They want to contol the world's oil prices & destroy the status quo i.e. the present por-Cuban/Russian regime to build something new on its ruins. If self-sustaining Venezulela is allowed to prosper, other L. American nations will follow suit in making their own
    decisions on how to develop- inviting China, Russia, Korea, Japan, India, Turkey, Iran, the EU, & Canada to invest & trade, at the US expence. The US doesn't need another Africa in its "backyard."
    Venezuela is the new theater for major powers’ rivalry

    U.S. Push to Oust Venezuela’s Maduro Marks First Shot in Plan to Reshape Latin America

    Maduro loosens private sector, currency red tape-sources

    Guaido says police visited his home

    Over 3,000 more US troops headed to southern border

    Should a civil war/refugee crisis start in Northern S. America, more US troops will be needed on the Mexican border. The USCG will be busy too.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:52 am

    Americans better be careful... they might start something that can't be finished by them... Maduro called it a Vietnam... but with Vietnam it was easy enough for the US to run away and cut their losses... if they attack Venezuela there might be blowback in a number of central and south american states for the US reducing to chaos another country just because the leadership of that country does not suit their interests...

    And they have screwed up an invasion of Cuba before... would not trust them to get it right this time either... last time they thought the Cuban people were with them and they would just have to arrive and they would be welcomed as liberators... didn't really work out that way of course...
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    Post  LMFS Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:34 pm

    GarryB wrote:Americans better be careful... they might start something that can't be finished by them...  Maduro called it a Vietnam... but with Vietnam it was easy enough for the US to run away and cut their losses... if they attack Venezuela there might be blowback in a number of central and south american states for the US reducing to chaos another country just because the leadership of that country does not suit their interests...

    And they have screwed up an invasion of Cuba before... would not trust them to get it right this time either... last time they thought the Cuban people were with them and they would just have to arrive and they would be welcomed as liberators... didn't really work out that way of course...
    This is true in particular for Colombia, which is the most strategically placed country in Latin America and where guerrillas still have their fingers at the trigger. With the help of Venezuela (in the more than probable case that Colombia is used as a launching pad for intervention) they could do much more than just staying in the jungle. And of course US losing grip over Colombia and opening a gap for Russia and China to access South America from the Pacific would be a disaster for them.

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