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61 posters

    Venezuela crisis

    Poll

    Will usa be successful in installing it's puppet

    [ 9 ]
    Venezuela crisis - Page 11 Bar_left25%Venezuela crisis - Page 11 Bar_right [25%] 
    [ 27 ]
    Venezuela crisis - Page 11 Bar_left75%Venezuela crisis - Page 11 Bar_right [75%] 

    Total Votes: 36
    miketheterrible
    miketheterrible


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    Venezuela crisis - Page 11 Empty Re: Venezuela crisis

    Post  miketheterrible Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:59 am

    Atlas is correct here.

    Only way out of this is Russia and China being more aggressive against US at every turn. Give Venezuela and option. The simple fact that Venezuelan oil still needed to be refined in US was a joke and that is something China and Russia should have fixed.

    Russia needs to be more aggressive. They need to bite back at US everywhere.
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:37 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:To comment on an earlier post: in Venezuela, I'm not sure they can grow enough food to be self sufficient in that tropical climate & on poor soils cleared from the jungle. Brazil has a similar problem & adds tons of fertilizers to do just that.  
    Of course they can! Growing season all the year long, water and light (and not everything is jungle in the tropics). Western usual land mismanagement needs huge amounts of supplies but look at how Cuba solved this problem sustainably. Difficulty of growing food is grossly overstated, especially in the tropics as far as some water is available. Let say problems are more organizational than technical.

    @ATLASCUB: good post. Every price is cheap for Russia and China compared to 300 million oil barrels financing a war against them, this is a no-brainer. They need to get every other developing power on board, like India, Iran and Turkey. And of course involve the regional allies in Latin America. Or even escalate locally in their own regions so the Empire cannot concentrate too much in Venezuela. I agree they need to be ready for escalation, we are approaching end game.
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    ATLASCUB


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    Post  ATLASCUB Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:25 pm

    Cuba has a lot of problems with farming still AFAIK. What it does have is freedom to do whatever it pleases on their land - something they took care off early in the Agrarian reform. Private ownership in Venezuela is bound to be a stumbling block in the wrong hands (obviously not in all places but in some). Venezuela is a much more stable patch of land weather wise and much more extensive so there is that. Albeit, with more mouths to feed. Still, Venezuela can put up the money for investment... which  Cuba has a great problem with.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:33 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:Chinese need to play some hand finally. They already stayed too much behind the stage in Syria.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-28/5000-troops-colombia-quell-venezuela-crisis-john-bolton-flashes-notepad-contents
    ..................


    They only risk losing 70 billion in Venezuela. They will lose orders of magnitude more if they get between USA and Venezuela. Not worth it.

    70 billion is glorified lunch money for them.




    Tsavo Lion wrote:At least Russia & China can make it a very expensive adventure for they US in Venezuela, turning it into another Vietnam.


    And how would they do that? By sending weapons?

    They already offloaded enough over the years for entire subcontinent.  

    Venezuela is far and away, especially from Russia.




    miketheterrible wrote:...........
    Only way out of this is Russia and China being more aggressive against US at every turn.  Give Venezuela and option.  The simple fact that Venezuelan oil still needed to be refined in US was a joke and that is something China and Russia should have fixed.
    ...............


    I am pretty sure that both China and especially Russia already offered Venezuela plenty of options to fix oil processing location but I guess that (as always) Reds just cant say no to that sweet sweet capitalist money that they supposedly have issues with.  Cool




    Tsavo Lion wrote:The Russians & Chinese may recruit as many, if not more, mercenaries/volunteers in Mexico, C. America, Cuba, Bolivia, & Colombia itself to help Maduro's army.
    Mexican cartels have plenty of ex-military men ready to earn $ on the side
    .


    Fighting for socialism... by paying big bucks to cartel sicarios to fight your battles....  lol1

    I would love to see this!

    Although considering ''courage'' that our local Serbian commies have displayed over the decades this doesn't come as a surprise at all.

    Some universal values are definitely shared among commies worldwide.  Razz
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    ATLASCUB


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    Post  ATLASCUB Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:48 pm

    I've yet to see a fight Papa doesn't run away from....

    "Syria... who cares...ohh Russia got two bases. Well nice...that's it... who cares about the rest"
    "Ukraine... who cares....corrupt money pit.... Russia's better off"
    "Iran... who cares.... they don't buy Russian planes... they can suck it....Russia is better off"
    "Venezuela....who cares....crazy commies... Russia better cut its loses - Russia's better off"
    "Moscow....who cares.... Russia's better off that corrupt pit... always liked St.Petersburg more tbh" - Soon!
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:44 pm

    ATLASCUB wrote:I've yet to see a fight Papa doesn't run away from....

    Syria... who cares...ohh Russia got two bases. Well nice...that's it... who cares about the rest"

    They scored bases in Syria on the cheap thus making Soviets look like amateurs. Good job.

    As for rest of Syria it's dead desert. Get it if you can, if not cut it loose.

    "Ukraine... who cares....corrupt money pit.... Russia's better off"

    Ukraine is a corrupt money pit and they are better off (finally). Let ukrops eat each other and they can pick up pieces later on the cheap

    "Iran... who cares.... they don't buy Russian planes... they can suck it....Russia is better off"

    I am from Serbia so you don't really want to hear my honest opinion of Iran

    "Venezuela....who cares....crazy commies... Russia better cut its loses - Russia's better off"

    Correct. Commies. Very distant commies. And much better off (were they ever really 'with'?)

    "Moscow....who cares.... Russia's better off that corrupt pit... always liked St.Petersburg more tbh" - Soon!


    Your words, not mine.

    But if they screw up again this bad in this day and age well, Good Lord Darwin is nothing if not impartial.




    USSR is dead and gone. Good riddance.

    They are gone because they were running around planet wasting time, money and (Russian) lives on futile and pointless charity work for hordes of ungrateful backstabbing douchebags.    

    Russia is doing better because they are being smart unlike Soviets.

    They fight for themselves just as they should and just as everyone else in this world does.


    Last edited by PapaDragon on Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Tingsay


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    Post  Tingsay Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:54 pm

    Papa is correct on Venezuela. Russia really isn't "with" Venezuela.
    They never pledged deals with Chavez or Maduro, they made deals with the parliament of Venezuela. Meaning if the US invades Venezuela, Russia doesn't need to intervene militarily to protect it's assets. It will be safe after regime change.

    Maybe if Russia had a true power projecting force, yeah. But right now, Venezuela isn't that big a deal.
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    ATLASCUB


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    Post  ATLASCUB Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:14 pm

    They did?
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:46 pm


    USA just sanctioned Venezuelan state oil company

    Same one that keeps 80% of it's processing capacities in USA

    And one that generates 90% of Venezuelan export profits

    Looks like reds are 100% screwed, maybe they should have divested from USA at some point in previous 2 decades, eh?
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:04 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:USSR is dead and gone. Good riddance.

    They are gone because they were running around planet wasting time, money and (Russian) lives on futile and pointless charity work for hordes of ungrateful backstabbing douchebags.

    They are gone because the traitors right inside the USSR, for example Gorbachyov and Yakovlev, backstabbed the Party and people, and brought the whole nation into the hole.

    They are gone because the shitty opportunistic scumbags like Khruschyov topple the Stalinists, and began to wrecked havoc on everything from ideology, politics to economy, then Breznhev and the military leaders failed to curb the increasingly corruption inside the Party.

    If Stalin were still alived in 198x, Ustinov should have been executed or sent to Gulag, for authorization of three lines of tanks with largely overlapped roles yet have none interchangable parts.

    PapaDragon wrote:Russia is doing better because they are being smart unlike Soviets.

    They fight for themselves just as they should and just as everyone else in this world does.

    Backing the Chavismo here and now has many things to do with the position and winning probability of Russia itself, as many previous comments pointed out.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:14 pm

    Russia agreed with backing Maduro. So did China, India and others.

    Russia will provide assistance when asked.

    Russia now does things a tad bit more efficiently but due to being less aggressive, allowed them to end up losing a lot of territory (Ukraine).

    Anyway, they can do things more efficiently by allowing lets say a few ships off of Venezuela to show solidarity with the nation, and then the rest can be mercenaries. I know they dont officially have mercenaries but I dont doubt their existence. Except the only source is a well known mad man who is just there for media attention. But there is some form of truth cause I imagine they get paid by oil companies to provide protection.
    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:19 pm

    Tingsay wrote:Papa is correct on Venezuela. Russia really isn't "with" Venezuela.
    They never pledged deals with Chavez or Maduro, they made deals with the parliament of Venezuela. Meaning if the US invades Venezuela, Russia doesn't need to intervene militarily to protect it's assets. It will be safe after regime change.

    Maybe if Russia had a true power projecting force, yeah. But right now, Venezuela isn't that big a deal.

    How so? Venezuela parliament is America backed since 2017. Guaido would never make any business deals with Russia.
    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:21 pm

    The way I see it. Venezuela civil war will happen between America backed Guaido and Russia backed Maduro. Russia will veto UNSC resolution so it'll be like Syria and Ukraine and not like Libya. Venezuela will be broken up into pieces and partitioned into a pro Russia part and a pro America part in a frozen conflict. Maduro will retain the Caracas area and lose the rest of the country to pro America Guaido. Guaido army will quickly take the southern areas bordering Brazil and Columbia but unable to take the northern Caracas area due to this area being pro Maduro. Russia will have yet another frozen conflict to worry about. Geesus.

    Whenever a country is pro Russia, for example Iran, America tries to start a civil war there and force Russia to make another frozen conflict. America's strategy is to make hundreds of frozen conflicts to wear out Russia.


    Last edited by ultimatewarrior on Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:30 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Russia now does things a tad bit more efficiently but due to being less aggressive, allowed them to end up losing a lot of territory (Ukraine).

    I think I agreed with PapaDragon on Ukraina issues, Ukraina it is a lost cause.

    Too many people in Ukraina were poisoned by Western shits and it was beyond Russia ability to rescue the who nation. The only choice was to rescue whatever parts can be and have to be (Crimea, Donbass) and waited until Ukrainian people realize that they are in deep shit... and actually they are realizing it.

    miketheterrible wrote:Anyway, they can do things more efficiently by allowing lets say a few ships off of Venezuela to show solidarity with the nation, and then the rest can be mercenaries.  I know they dont officially have mercenaries but I dont doubt their existence.  Except the only source is a well known mad man who is just there for media attention.  But there is some form of truth cause I imagine they get paid by oil companies to provide protection.

    Personally I don't really think Russia or China need to do the military method in the case of Venezuela.

    What the western propaganda does not show people here are the massive parades of Maduro-supporters.

    The Chavismo have provide 2.5 millions of free houses for poor people and at the moment this policy finally shows its effects. The common people understand well that although Chavismo haven't fixed all the problems but the opposition won't do any good things for them.

    And most importantly, asides from several traitors, the military supports Chavismo.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:37 pm

    If not military, then at least sign big ticket deals with Maduro. For instance, offer to invest in building refineries that are capable of refining the oil from Venezuela, rather than relying on the refineries in Texas. As well, offer to invest in its agricultural industry and other industries like rubber and what not.

    Doing so, will show that Russia is on their side. Loans are useless. Instead, it has to be practical.
    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:40 pm

    The way I see it. Venezuela civil war will happen between America backed Guaido and Russia backed Maduro. Russia will veto UNSC resolution so it'll be like Syria and Ukraine and not like Libya. Venezuela will be broken up into pieces and partitioned into a pro Russia part and a pro America part in a frozen conflict. Maduro will retain the Caracas area and lose the rest of the country to pro America Guaido. Guaido army will quickly take the southern areas bordering Brazil and Columbia but unable to take the northern Caracas area due to this area being pro Maduro. Russia will have yet another frozen conflict to worry about. Geesus.

    Whenever a country is pro Russia, for example Iran, America tries to start a civil war there and force Russia to make another frozen conflict. America's strategy is to make hundreds of frozen conflicts to wear out Russia.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:40 pm

    And how would they do that? By sending weapons?

    In any civil war, arms get damaged, destroyed, captured or lost, + ammo. is used up quickly. They can supply them to Colombian rebels too- the recent bombing of the police academy showed that not all of them gave up the fight for too long, & new recruits may be created with this intervention.
    Tingsay wrote:..Meaning if the US invades Venezuela, Russia doesn't need to intervene militarily to protect it's assets. It will be safe after regime change. ..
    That's naive! It will defeat the purpose, as it's precisely why they want to oust Maduro so Russia & China lose those assets & contracts. They could care less about those agreements. Venezuela under total US control will seize to be a source of income for both.
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:58 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    And how would they do that? By sending weapons?

    In any civil war, arms get damaged, destroyed, captured or lost, + ammo. is used up quickly. They can supply them to Colombian rebels too- the recent bombing of the police academy showed that not all of them gave up the fight for too long, & new recruits may be created with this intervention.
    Tingsay wrote:..Meaning if the US invades Venezuela, Russia doesn't need to intervene militarily to protect it's assets. It will be safe after regime change. ..
    That's naive! It will defeat the purpose, as it's precisely why they want to oust Maduro so Russia & China lose those assets & contracts. They could care less about those agreements. Venezuela under total US control will seize to be a source of income for both.

    In case you have not noticed, Venezuela is a dieing country. Any asset there is worthless anyways. Maduro is at his end.

    The british national bank blocks the venezuela gold reserves and the french national bank also hold 30 tons of gold and denies Maduro to get to it.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:10 pm

    Don't bury him yet, he may go underground for months or years like Saddam Hussein & Bin Laden did, leading an insurgency.
    They have more $ & gold stashed elsewhere, & China, Russia & Turkey may provide more $.
    Maduro isn't a communist, but a Bolivarian socialist & a nationalist like Hồ Chí Minh of Vietnam was.
    http://www.pravdareport.com/world/americas/29-01-2019/142207-us_hegemony_venezuela-0/


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:34 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Don't bury him yet, he may go underground for months or years like Saddam Hussein & Bin Laden did, leading an insurgency.
    They have other gold stashed elsewhere, & China may provide more $.

    You talk about...the bus driver. He smahsed his country at the wall.

    I disagree with Castro but respect him. But Maduro? Just disgust.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:22 pm

    Sending American troops to Colombia or trying to force a weakened Venezuela to let ExxonMobil produce its petroleum, as Bolton wants, is a policy that benefits only a few billionaires and which has an extremely short timeline for success. Even if the US could seize Venezuela’s petroleum, or, as Trump keeps advocating, Iraq’s, it would matter very long. Most petroleum is burned as fuel for internal combustion engines in automobiles, trucks and other vehicles.
    It just won’t be needed very much longer, and if angry old men like Bolton were replaced by persons younger and on the ball, we’d use tax breaks more effectively to promote electric vehicles instead of saber-rattling at Caracas.

    https://www.juancole.com/2019/01/bolton-gerontocrats-venezuela.html

    The Iran connection:
    https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2561205.html


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:09 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:41 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Don't bury him yet, he may go underground for months or years like Saddam Hussein & Bin Laden did, leading an insurgency............

    https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DownerEnding
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:44 pm

    Some interesting links:

    https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/01/sanctions-are-wars-against-people.html#more
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/why-would-the-us-want-venezuelas-oil-when-it-already-buys-41-of-its-total-exports/5666577
    https://www.greenleft.org.au/content/venezuela-president-maduro-illegitimate-10-facts-counter-lies
    https://twitter.com/jcamora/status/1090055843318509568
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:38 pm

    Not a bad move from Maduro.

    ELINT News
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    29m
    #UPDATE: Deputy of the National Assembly Jose Guerra, citing "workers" inside Venezuela’s Central Bank, says that the regime is trying to smuggle some 20 tonnes of gold out of the Bank's vaults aboard a plane "that came from Moscow
    George1
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    Post  George1 Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:24 pm

    Kremlin slams US sanctions against PDVSA as meddling in Venezuela's affairs

    More:
    http://tass.com/politics/1042240

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