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    Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

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    sundoesntrise


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    Post  sundoesntrise Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:44 pm

    par far wrote:There is this disturbing video of an Azerbaijani solider cutting the throat of an old Armenian, these bastards need to stop this.

    I haven't seen that video, but I did see a video of Azerbaijani soldiers hanging human skulls from the back of their Army trucks.

    Apparantly they had dug those up from an Armenian graveyard that had recently come under their control

    It's no surprise that horrible stuff happens in wars but these Azerbaijanis are really strange. Very out and about in their genocidal, maniacal ways.
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    Post  Odin of Ossetia Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:23 pm

    Regular wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    I wonder if this thread will be revived. Hopefully not. Russian peacekeepers reported that all the attacks came from Azeri side… yet they did nothing

    The job of peacekeepers is to monitor and report... in that particular situation they were not in a position to do very much, but it is up to the politicians to hold the guilty parties to account... and one side releasing videos of them breaking the agreement shows a level of stupidity that is rather impressive.

    Perhaps Russian missiles hitting their gas pipelines and refineries and other resources might bring them back in to line... they are seriously vulnerable to attack... and any promises from Turkey or the US will not save them.

    If Armenia does not want to cooperate with Russia and thinks the US can help them perhaps they should be asking the US for assistance.... or maybe approaching Iran might a solution that will shake Turkey and the US into reality...

    I agree. In perfect world Azerbaijan should get Georgian treatment for their actions. But reality is that both EU and Russia are on good terms with their country. There is no animosity. But let’s not forget that Armenian helped Russia with sanctions and they also sent peacekeepers to Kazakhstan together with Russia. They clearly changed their act. In my opinion Russia should try to stop the hostilities with all means possible.




    The treatment Georgia got:

    http://asaland.proboards.com/thread/264/georgian-losses-reports



    paratrooper


    I think Azerbaijan is sometimes forgetting that it is "sandwiched" among Armenia, Iran, and Russia.

    Not an enviable position.



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    Post  GarryB Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:01 am

    Interesting forum you have there... more so because that part is dated 2008 so it is when the conflict in Georgia happened and does not appear to have been edited to suit any narrative since.

    Normally don't allow promotion of other forums, but I think it is interesting and relevant to this thread so will not do anything about it except have a look for myself.

    Smile
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    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E


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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:12 pm

    🇷🇺Ghost of kherson🇷🇺
    @ILRUSSO1
    🗣️FLASH NEWS⚔⚔⚔Iranian TG channels report that Iranian army equipment is heading toward the Azerbaijani border⚔⚔⚔

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    limb


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    Post  limb Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:43 pm

    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:🇷🇺Ghost of kherson🇷🇺
    @ILRUSSO1
    🗣️FLASH NEWS⚔⚔⚔Iranian TG channels report that Iranian army equipment is heading toward the Azerbaijani border⚔⚔⚔


    ig iranians are more serious about protectingn their allies than russia is
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    Post  Isos Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:18 am

    Russians can now targets azeri gas production to screw EU even more.

    US are clearly doing everything they can to destroy Europe.

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    Post  flamming_python Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:33 am

    limb wrote:
    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:🇷🇺Ghost of kherson🇷🇺
    @ILRUSSO1
    🗣️FLASH NEWS⚔⚔⚔Iranian TG channels report that Iranian army equipment is heading toward the Azerbaijani border⚔⚔⚔


    ig iranians are more serious about protectingn their allies than russia is

    No you fool, the Iranians and Russians simply agreed prior to the operation that Armenia's defense will be Iran's responsibility for the duration

    As the Russian leadership correctly calculated that the West will try to isolate/overthrow it and Turkey's neutrality would be vital; so they can't make any moves against Azerbaijan themselves.
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    Post  sepheronx Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:06 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    limb wrote:
    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:🇷🇺Ghost of kherson🇷🇺
    @ILRUSSO1
    🗣️FLASH NEWS⚔⚔⚔Iranian TG channels report that Iranian army equipment is heading toward the Azerbaijani border⚔⚔⚔


    ig iranians are more serious about protectingn their allies than russia is

    No you fool, the Iranians and Russians simply agreed prior to the operation that Armenia's defense will be Iran's responsibility for the duration

    As the Russian leadership correctly calculated that the West will try to isolate/overthrow it and Turkey's neutrality would be vital; so they can't make any moves against Azerbaijan themselves.

    That, and Russia already has gear in the area and soldiers. So Limb is being obtuse yet again.

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:48 am

    I guess Iranians will welcome some level hard maneuvers with another style of an army they are used to fighting with for the last 40 years Laughing

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    Post  nomadski Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:15 am

    Last war between Armenia / R. Azer , Russia played a vital and pivotal role in defending Armenia territory from being overrun by Turkish backed Azeri forces , which apart from reclaiming lost territory to Armenia previously , seemed to lack applying brakes on their military / offensive and expansionist juggernaut , toward Yerevan . Iran at that time , apart from shooting down an invading Azeri jet and Israeli drone , moved artillery to border area , to protect it from the war spilling over into Iranian territory . But I doubt Iran could have done any more , like Russia , at stationing troops along Armenia border and taken direct action against Azeris . This is because of large Azeri population in Iran , and their support for " brotherly " Azeris across the border , and existing tensions in Iran , between Persian speakers and Azeri speakers . Therefore Iran's hands are tied for that reason . But Iran can indirectly help Armenia , much more by allowing Russia troops and aid to reach Armenia , through it's soil . But if Turkey will not honour international borders and is encouraging sectarian tensions and incursions into Armenian soil ( seizing a moment of weakness by Russia in Ukraine ) then two can play that game . Iran and Russia can ally with Syrian Kurds to start a separatist move against Turkey . This is much more effective by Iran and Russia to achieve , and will have far less serious repercussions internally for Iran . The Iranian and Iraqi Kurds will also support it . An initial practical move , an arms shipment to the Kurds and incursion into Turkey , however will be enough , and stop the Turks from further adventurism in central Asia .

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    Post  GarryB Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:28 am

    US are clearly doing everything they can to destroy Europe.

    The only rational explanation... those Americans really hate you Europeans... or is it that they see you as more of a rival for them with the rest of the world, so flatten your tires and drive ahead snapping up customers and trade agreements before you can.

    But if Turkey will not honour international borders and is encouraging sectarian tensions and incursions into Armenian soil ( seizing a moment of weakness by Russia in Ukraine ) then two can play that game . Iran and Russia can ally with Syrian Kurds to start a separatist move against Turkey . This is much more effective by Iran and Russia to achieve , and will have far less serious repercussions internally for Iran . The Iranian and Iraqi Kurds will also support it . An initial practical move , an arms shipment to the Kurds and incursion into Turkey , however will be enough , and stop the Turks from further adventurism in central Asia .

    Is there any evidence that Turkey is actually pushing this or is this the US pushing Azeris directly to divide Russia and the seemingly neutral Turkey (neutral regarding Ukraine).

    I would say direct strikes against gas supplies/infrastructure in Azerbaijan would force them to back down and STFU, but those attacks could come from Russia or Iran... if Iran had anything to do with attacks on Saudi oil refineries then they already have the skills and ability to do the same to the gas fields of Azerbaijan, and of course Russia has the capability too...

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    Post  nomadski Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:29 pm


    These retaliation are all possible and not exclusive . If it was the Yanks , then a reminder in Syria ! Death by a thousand ( anonymous ) drones ! Russia may have more to loose by acting against Turkey . Iran may have more to loose by acting against Azer . So you do mine , and I will do yours . Then we both do the yanks .

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    Post  Isos Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:35 pm

    The only rational explanation... those Americans really hate you Europeans... or is it that they see you as more of a rival for them with the rest of the world, so flatten your tires and drive ahead snapping up customers and trade agreements before you can.

    China is becoming too strong. You can't have 3 economical leaders in this world. Only room for 2. China produces everything that US need. Europe nothing and produces high tech stuff that directly compete against US companies and most of the time EU stuff is better (airbus vs boeing for exemple).

    So they made all that shit in Ukraine to anhilate european industries and specially german one (which is the only industrial coubtry left in europe).

    Everyone sees it here except the corrupted politicians. That's crystal clear.
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    Post  GarryB Thu Sep 15, 2022 5:16 am

    You can't have 3 economical leaders in this world. Only room for 2.

    In the western scheme of things it is dog eat dog so there can only be one leader and the US is bullying everyone to make sure it remains that one leader, but what sort of future does the rest of the world have if the US is going to control them and use them and use them up just so it can have a comfortable existence?

    What is in it for the rest of the world?

    The reason the rest of the world hasn't jumped on the sanctions bandwagon with the west is that they have all had dealings with the west and they know what total censored you guys can be.

    Russia and China are not offering to take over from the US and be the number on and the bully, they are offering freedom and independence to make your own choices and decisions based on what is best for your country and your region and your culture.

    If the US wins how long before French people have to learn English... it is just easier they will say... easier for them of course.

    If Russia and China and the rest of the world wins it is not about pushing other countries down it is about everyone lifting everyone else up.

    Russia doesn't suffer because China is powerful and China doesn't suffer because Russia is powerful.

    Mongolia getting rich does not hurt them either...

    International rules and are objective and fair helps everyone and international organisations that are objective and fair is essential too.

    Never going to get that with the US in charge... they pick and choose what rules can apply to the US or Israel... and it is always clear how they apply them as to whether that country is a friend or enemy at the moment.

    So they made all that shit in Ukraine to anhilate european industries and specially german one (which is the only industrial coubtry left in europe).

    Everyone sees it here except the corrupted politicians. That's crystal clear.

    You let them do it... they talked about democracy and freedom when they sold you down the river... blaming Putin and Russia for everything along the way...

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    Post  Arrow Sun Sep 18, 2022 1:16 pm


    The US will now try to confuse Armenia and change course to the West.




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    Post  ALAMO Sun Sep 18, 2022 2:11 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    Mongolia getting rich does not hurt them either...

    That is a more brilliant example than you might think actually.
    Mongolia is a perfect case of a very weak, low-populated country spread between two mighty neighbors, who both have been suffering severely under their rule a few ages ago.
    Objectively, both Russia and China should have some issues against Mongolia, including historical hate, rage, and the need for revenge.
    And the opposite - Mongols could feel some phantom pains of empire, rage towards the Chinese because of being conquered and de facto liquidated as an independent khanate.
    Yet, nothing like that happened.
    What's more, we are talking about the things that happened 100 years ago only, as back in 1912 the Chinese constitution was considering Mongolia as an undisputed part of China.
    Imperial Russia not only recognized the newly reconstituted Mongolian statehood, while facing pressure from England to drown them in blood, but persuaded the Chinese to sign a trilateral agreement. Nobody was perfectly fine with it, but nobody was a loser either.
    As civil war tore apart Imperial Russia, some dark days came for Mongolia as well - but finally the struggle brought a Soviet Mongolia to the scene, which again shared the fate of the Soviet Union. Including the purges.
    Finally, the Soviets persuaded the Chinese again to respect Mongolian independence, and they agreed under the condition of performing a country-wide referendum.
    Chinese observers assisted in it, confirming a 100% voting for the independance, and that made them finally withdraw any territorial or political claims back in 1945...
    Since the 1920s, Mongolia is a close and trusted Soviet/Russian ally, enjoying vast Soviet and later Russian support.
    To this very day, the Mongolian railroad operator is a de facto division of the Russian RŻD, managed a rotative manner by the managers from both countries. They have fought side by side multiple times. Mongols accepted hell of orphaned children in the WW2, gathered money and volunteers, created Mongolian armed units to fight along with the Soviets, and delivered hell of supplies to them. The most important were warm clothes that saved thousands of lives in Soviet ranks.
    And again, as soon as the war ended, the Soviets paid back the friendship, starting with the mentioned referendum, and multiple industrial projects, and unconditional support till the sad end of the Soviet Union.
    To this very day, the entire elite of Mongolia speaks fluent Russian, most of them educated in Russian schools.
    Mongols are considered trusted friends and allies, and the idea of offending Russians by calling them "Mongoloids" or any other ksenophobic agenda can make them laugh only.
    Sure, the Tuvan originating Shoigu feels very offended hearing that he has the blood of Gyngis Khan, the ruler of the whole world once who established the empire bigger than Alexander the Great Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    Post  ATLASCUB Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:08 pm

    Confuse Armenian elites?  lol1 They got their man already in place.

    Pelosi's visit is more than just a "normal" trip. This is a well calculated play by the man (and entourage) that the Kremlin and its allies in Armenia have failed to overthrow for god knows how long. It can't be a louder message to the Kremlin.

    This is playing out extremely well for the U.S.

    You have the U.S offering security assurances to Armenia. You also have protests in Yerevan seeking a pull out by Armenia from the CSTO (manufacturing mass support by using a complex national crisis to rally support), while Azerbaijan and the Turks play their role of the dog on a leash. Russia is sandwiched in-between and neutralized from making any moves by trying to balance all sides. It's a masterful chess move in motion, even if it doesn't devolve into anything of serious concrete importance. At the very least these moves put the ball moving, and you never know, Armenia is a few obstacles away from flipping like Georgia.... with mainly military elites and a few older chaps holding the line. If by some chance they flip or get pushed out of the board... it's toast for the Kremlin boys. Thus, because of this, you see the U.S and its vultures make the move....you proactively shake the board cause you never know what may fall out of it.

    Pelosi's visit is not by chance, it's by invitation and with high up political approval. Where is Putin? Definitely not in Armenia, but Pelosi (and America) is. Optics 101.

    Overall it's like pulling the rug under the house of cards built by the Kremlin boys.  The U.S/UK going hard at the CSTO, Eurasian Economic Union.....throwing a big massive fvck you wrench to the designs of the Union State by blowing up Ukraine etc etc. They won't stop until it's all crumbling in ashes. As they should btw, you keep your dominant position in no small part by destroying your rival designs and work. The earlier the better. After all, the Kremlin too is pushing for the end of the unipolar world order, and that hits home with the anglo, and global elites - sort of gets personal you see. Challenge met with challenge. Zero sum.

    It's the job of the Kremlin boys to meet the challenge and surpass their rivals. Fail? Well, some consequences are known, some you won't even dream of.
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    Post  GarryB Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:37 am

    What is the US going to deliver?

    Leaving the CSTO would do lots of damage to the country... how is the US going to compensate them for that?

    Promises of joining HATO or the EU or both... how will Turkey feel about Armenia just jumping into the EU ahead of them?

    The US did diddly squat to help Georgia, will they do anything to help Armenia?

    This is just the same as in the Ukraine... if Armenians want to turn west at a time when the west is pushing Russia and China away then that is OK... I am guessing the US thinks there is lithium or some other valuable resource there they want to steal...

    The amusing thing is that Russia has almost stayed neutral, while the US has jumped in with both feet and declared it has picked its side... the current peace agreement does not include US participation, nor does it include European participation, so despite all the BS and cameras, I am not sure what the US expects to achieve.

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    Post  TMA1 Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:40 pm

    So vann7 is an outright natoshill now, eh? Isnt even pretending to deny it.
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    Post  sundoesntrise Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:05 am

    ATLASCUB wrote:Confuse Armenian elites?  lol1 They got their man already in place.

    Pelosi's visit is more than just a "normal" trip. This is a well calculated play by the man (and entourage) that the Kremlin and its allies in Armenia have failed to overthrow for god knows how long. It can't be a louder message to the Kremlin.

    This is playing out extremely well for the U.S.

    You have the U.S offering security assurances to Armenia. You also have protests in Yerevan seeking a pull out by Armenia from the CSTO (manufacturing mass support by using a complex national crisis to rally support), while Azerbaijan and the Turks play their role of the dog on a leash. Russia is sandwiched in-between and neutralized from making any moves by trying to balance all sides. It's a masterful chess move in motion, even if it doesn't devolve into anything of serious concrete importance. At the very least these moves put the ball moving, and you never know, Armenia is a few obstacles away from flipping like Georgia.... with mainly military elites and a few older chaps holding the line. If by some chance they flip or get pushed out of the board... it's toast for the Kremlin boys. Thus, because of this, you see the U.S and its vultures make the move....you proactively shake the board cause you never know what may fall out of it.

    Pelosi's visit is not by chance, it's by invitation and with high up political approval. Where is Putin? Definitely not in Armenia, but Pelosi (and America) is. Optics 101.

    Overall it's like pulling the rug under the house of cards built by the Kremlin boys.  The U.S/UK going hard at the CSTO, Eurasian Economic Union.....throwing a big massive fvck you wrench to the designs of the Union State by blowing up Ukraine etc etc. They won't stop until it's all crumbling in ashes. As they should btw, you keep your dominant position in no small part by destroying your rival designs and work. The earlier the better. After all, the Kremlin too is pushing for the end of the unipolar world order, and that hits home with the anglo, and global elites - sort of gets personal you see. Challenge met with challenge. Zero sum.

    It's the job of the Kremlin boys to meet the challenge and surpass their rivals. Fail? Well, some consequences are known, some you won't even dream of.

    Your assessment of Russia's moves is correct - in that they are mostly ineffective or even counterproductive.

    However imo stating that Erdo&Aliyev are on a US leash is a bridge too far. They are loose guns and at this point all the indicators point at them having a go at establishing that land corridor through Armenian territory. In fact they've already started it as during the Sept. 13-14 fighting they have taken up much more advantegous positions inside Armenian territory. Reminder that at its narrowest point the corridor is only 40-45 km, and that a full on invasion will likely be from two sides.

    The timing would be perfect. Russia has been exposed as weak and is distracted elsewhere, the EU has just agreed on extensive new gas contracts with Azerbaijan (which they really need), the US is far away and equally occupied in Ukraine, and Armenia itself seems paralyzed by deep internal divisions and a traitorous prime Minister at the helm.

    Only question mark is Iran. Based on recent history they are all bark and no bite, having their wings clipped by the (military) sanctions and sitting on a volcano themselves. Imagine Iran getting involved in the conflict. People in Tel Aviv would be absolutely creaming over the thought.

    Also shout out to the peeps who during the Artsakh 2020 War were beyond adamant that Azerbaijan attacking Armenia proper would never ever happen because powerful Russia blablabla..
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    Post  Krepost Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:13 am

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    Post  TMA1 Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:37 am

    sundoesntrise wrote:
    ATLASCUB wrote:Confuse Armenian elites?  lol1 They got their man already in place.

    Pelosi's visit is more than just a "normal" trip. This is a well calculated play by the man (and entourage) that the Kremlin and its allies in Armenia have failed to overthrow for god knows how long. It can't be a louder message to the Kremlin.

    This is playing out extremely well for the U.S.

    You have the U.S offering security assurances to Armenia. You also have protests in Yerevan seeking a pull out by Armenia from the CSTO (manufacturing mass support by using a complex national crisis to rally support), while Azerbaijan and the Turks play their role of the dog on a leash. Russia is sandwiched in-between and neutralized from making any moves by trying to balance all sides. It's a masterful chess move in motion, even if it doesn't devolve into anything of serious concrete importance. At the very least these moves put the ball moving, and you never know, Armenia is a few obstacles away from flipping like Georgia.... with mainly military elites and a few older chaps holding the line. If by some chance they flip or get pushed out of the board... it's toast for the Kremlin boys. Thus, because of this, you see the U.S and its vultures make the move....you proactively shake the board cause you never know what may fall out of it.

    Pelosi's visit is not by chance, it's by invitation and with high up political approval. Where is Putin? Definitely not in Armenia, but Pelosi (and America) is. Optics 101.

    Overall it's like pulling the rug under the house of cards built by the Kremlin boys.  The U.S/UK going hard at the CSTO, Eurasian Economic Union.....throwing a big massive fvck you wrench to the designs of the Union State by blowing up Ukraine etc etc. They won't stop until it's all crumbling in ashes. As they should btw, you keep your dominant position in no small part by destroying your rival designs and work. The earlier the better. After all, the Kremlin too is pushing for the end of the unipolar world order, and that hits home with the anglo, and global elites - sort of gets personal you see. Challenge met with challenge. Zero sum.

    It's the job of the Kremlin boys to meet the challenge and surpass their rivals. Fail? Well, some consequences are known, some you won't even dream of.

    Your assessment of Russia's moves is correct - in that they are mostly ineffective or even counterproductive.

    However imo stating that Erdo&Aliyev are on a US leash is a bridge too far. They are loose guns and at this point all the indicators point at them having a go at establishing that land corridor through Armenian territory. In fact they've already started it as during the Sept. 13-14 fighting they have taken up much more advantegous positions inside Armenian territory. Reminder that at its narrowest point the corridor is only 40-45 km, and that a full on invasion will likely be from two sides.

    The timing would be perfect. Russia has been exposed as weak and is distracted elsewhere, the EU has just agreed on extensive new gas contracts with Azerbaijan (which they really need), the US is far away and equally occupied in Ukraine, and Armenia itself seems paralyzed by deep internal divisions and a traitorous prime Minister at the helm.

    Only question mark is Iran. Based on recent history they are all bark and no bite, having their wings clipped by the (military) sanctions and sitting on a volcano themselves. Imagine Iran getting involved in the conflict. People in Tel Aviv would be absolutely creaming over the thought.

    Also shout out to the peeps who during the Artsakh 2020 War were beyond adamant that Azerbaijan attacking Armenia proper would never ever happen because powerful Russia blablabla..

    You post with a lot of snark, homie. These are very strange times and over a year ago things were obviously different. I think you hold people here to very unrealistic standards.

    Btw I was one that was sure that this stuff in the Caucasus would chill for at least a little while. I didnt expect the current Ukrainian conflict either. I didnt see a lot of things the right way so I guess I failed your expectations as well. To me tho I dont see these errors as particularly egregious as the geopolitical realities are very complex and dirty (tho western msm and forums/subreddits filled with neocon bootlickers would pretend it isnt).

    I have a question for you. A serious one. Are you posting in good faith? Another question. Do you support Ukraine? Please be honest as I wont judge you harshly it will just give me an idea of the motivations for some of your posts as they come off a little strange and schizophrenic.
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    sundoesntrise


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    Post  sundoesntrise Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:50 am

    TMA1 wrote:Incoherent rambling


    It is quite obvious that the Russian advance-in-reverse is leading to some dented egos and exploding heads. From ascending global power to crumbling sphere of influence/ junior partnership with the Chinese in less than 7 months.

    Don't be mad. You ain't even Russian, and have probably never been there nor speak the language. A deranged Trumpista turned Putinista, and 4channer to boot. The Trifecta of the Dissident Right's Western retardedness.

    Good that you've come clean about your complete lack of understanding of the geopolitical realities in this world. As they say, the first step towards improvement is recognizing that you were wrong (and lied to) in the first place. Now extrapolate those insights onto the present/ future and keep your breather shut when the adults are speaking - with the add on that your continuous low effort, low quality provocations (looking to get people banned/suspended?) have been noted. Annoying as the membership here is, there are actually some high quality posters who have a decent understanding of things. You ain't part of that club.

    As for the rest of your incoherent mumbo-jumbo, stop projecting your own insecurities on me. Take a good hard look in the mirror and try not to burst out in laughter doing it.
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    sundoesntrise


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    Post  sundoesntrise Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:20 am

    Krepost wrote:

    Weak spin.

    If the US were interested in exposing CSTO as a worthless organization, and/or extending Russia's theater of operations to the Caucasus Pelosi wouldn't have flown to Yerevan, but to Baku.

    And she would have told Aliyev and Erdo that all lights are on green.

    Narratives, narratives, narratives. None of Berletic's (where did this guy suddenly come from?!) reasoning makes sense, but hey the narratives need to get shaped and underpinned.

    There are different dynamics at play here, the main one being Russia's deterrent/power projection weakening and Erdo/Aliyev having somewhat of an independent foreign policy. Hence the Erdo-Aliyev tandem (2) is acting on (1). Same in Kazakhstan, same in Tajikistan-Kyrgyzstan.

    There is nothing worse for a state(sman) than losing military prestige. Russia better start pulling rabbits out of their hat. The clock is ticking.


    Last edited by sundoesntrise on Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:24 am; edited 1 time in total
    TMA1
    TMA1


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    Post  TMA1 Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:23 am

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