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65 posters

    Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Thu May 20, 2021 1:16 am

    The IDF have claimed that the area that the rockets are now coming from is under Hezbohlah control, leading to this comment. Basically what might be expected, the longer it goes on the more likely that some external force might step in to stop Gaza being wantonly flattened.

    Amazon
    @Amazon1Amazon
    ·
    7h
    IsraelArmyRadio: The launching of rockets from Lebanon is planned and increases the more days of the aggression on Gaza. Nasrallah wants to deliver a message to Netanyahu that every day that passes without stopping the war on Gaza, he risks opening a second front against "israel"
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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Thu May 20, 2021 2:08 am

    JohninMK wrote:One problem that the IDF has is that many of the IAF airfields were located away from the perceived threats of 70 or so years ago and are vulnerable to today's threat, Hamas.

    Link to a post containing a Hamas video on IAF bases within their range. Don't understand it as its in Arabic.

    https://twitter.com/Amazon1Amazon/status/1395135749763239938

    Looks like a translation of the previous link

    Amazon
    @Amazon1Amazon
    ·
    9m
    The most prominent Zionist air force bases that was targeted by the Al-Qassam Brigades in the Battle of the Sword of Jerusalem:

    Palmachim base/ intended for testing and launching satellites, and it contains the 166 squadron.

    Tel Nof base / contains two squadrons of F-15 aircraft, and an air defense base.

    Hatzor Base / Contains training equipment for F-15 and F-16 aircraft, and it has 101 and 105 squadrons.

    Hatzerim base / contains 3 squadrons of F-15 and F-16 aircraft

    Nevatim Base / contains F-35 and 116 aircraft squadron

    Ramon Base / contains 3 squadrons of warplanes



    Apparently more Israeli bases were shelled last night which may have come as a surprise for the IDF with Hamas targeting six major Israeli air bases in various parts of Israel, as well as other ground military bases.
    First, on "City Targets" fired with smaller missiles to saturate Iron Dom, then the IDF attracts this system to high-value City goals and then the Air Force bases for the high-quality missiles are almost without coverage?

    Hello Israel... have a Problem
    mavaff
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    Post  mavaff Thu May 20, 2021 8:29 am

    ahmedfire wrote:[b]Posted by Tom Cooper regarding the performance of IAF .


    Interesting but I do not use Facebook. Do you know if this guy posts on Twitter or other social, too? Thanks.
    jhelb
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    Post  jhelb Thu May 20, 2021 9:38 am

    JohninMK wrote:One problem that the IDF has is that many of the IAF airfields were located away from the perceived threats of 70 or so years ago and are vulnerable to today's threat, Hamas.
    Hamas was created by israel. Why would they deliberately target high value targets inside israel?
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Thu May 20, 2021 11:26 am

    jhelb wrote:
    Hamas was created by israel. Why would they deliberately target high value targets inside israel?

    Easy. The changing of the guard. This is the new generation taking over, the 'suits both sides' cosy relationship that benefited few in Gaza is gone.

    The new guys are demonstrating that in reality, as opposed to on paper, they really are a force to be reckoned with, whilst at the same time putting some 'revenge' backbone into the generation after them.

    Besides this is them staking a claim to represent all Palestinians, not just those in Gaza. Israel has a problem all over the country now and I really don't know hoe they are going to solve it.

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    jhelb
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    Post  jhelb Thu May 20, 2021 12:53 pm

    JohninMK wrote:The new guys are demonstrating that in reality, as opposed to on paper, they really are a force to be reckoned with, whilst at the same time putting some 'revenge' backbone into the generation after them.
    They are certainly not a force to be reckoned with. They exist because Israel allows them to.

    In fact even Arab countries like Egypt that had previously fought against Israel militarily are not getting involved in any such adventure.

    Hamas doesn't have the firepower to last long. Israel OTOH gets tangible support (financial, military) from a host of advanced Western countries.

    Had Hamas really been a threat Israel would have wiped them out donkeys years ago. They don't because Hamas continues to be an Israeli puppet.
    starman
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    Post  starman Thu May 20, 2021 2:45 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    They are certainly not a force to be reckoned with. They exist because Israel allows them to.

    Because Israel is constrained to a considerable degree, by concern about world reaction. Crushing Hamas completely would jeopardize relations with Egypt, and much of the rest of the world.

    In fact even Arab countries like Egypt that had previously fought against Israel militarily are not getting involved in any such adventure.

    It's not that they don't care at all, it's just that they're currently in no shape to fight. Syria and Iraq have a long way to go to get back on their feet; even Egypt has internal issues.


    Had Hamas really been a threat Israel would have wiped them out donkeys years ago. They don't because Hamas continues to be an Israeli puppet.

    Laughing

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Thu May 20, 2021 2:57 pm

    jhelb wrote:They are certainly not a force to be reckoned with. They exist because Israel allows them to.

    In fact even Arab countries like Egypt that had previously fought against Israel militarily are not getting involved in any such adventure.

    Hamas doesn't have the firepower to last long. Israel OTOH gets tangible support (financial, military) from a host of advanced Western countries.

    Had Hamas really been a threat Israel would have wiped them out donkeys years ago. They don't because Hamas continues to be an Israeli puppet.

    That may indeed have been the case with the relationship between Abbas etc and Netanayho but that's gone now.

    Omar H. Rahman
    @omarrahman
    ·
    21h
    Indicative of much. Abbas has become irrelevant except through his grip on the structures and institutions of formal Palestinian politics, which are increasingly disconnected from the people as a result of his stewardship. In short: Abbas has made himself irrelevant.

    Nicholas A Heras
    @NicholasAHeras
    "Senior Fatah leaders have lamented that not a single Arab leader has called Mr. Abbas as the crisis spread from Jerusalem to Gaza and Israel."


    That relationship is now entering a new, more dangerous phase. This is due to the combination of the success of the Gaza military in rocking the security and confidence in Israel and the spread of 'Arab revolution' across the whole of Israel (note the general strike yesterday shutting down building sites - $45M estimated cost) verses on the other side by the aggressive moves by the Zionist settlers.

    Of course Hamas doesn't have the military strength of the IDF, it is fighting with what it has been able to cobble together. That it is still firing 60+ rockets a day into Israel after a week of IAF targetted smart munition attacks is amazing and a big minus for the IDF and its intel operations. I doubt that the view in the main IDF bunker is now "They are certainly not a force to be reckoned with".

    For Israel now or in the past to genocide the people in Gaza has never been an option. Just look at how reluctant the IDF are in actually entering Gaza, both regarding the adverse political and military impacts.

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    mavaff
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    Post  mavaff Thu May 20, 2021 3:19 pm

    I think IDF is reluctant to enter Gaza also because this might trigger Hezbollah to step in on the other front.
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    Post  elconquistador Thu May 20, 2021 5:00 pm

    Ceasefire seemed like a done deal (somewhere on Friday). Both sides seemed eager for at least a truce

    Suddenly a lot of chatter that the Israelis will continue with their military operation and move it to the next stage

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EndGameWW3/status/1395391144331186183

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/gantz-we-are-prepared-to-expand-gaza-operation-if-needed/

    Israelis now saying the (armed) drone coming from Jordan was Iranian.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/LahavHarkov/status/1395359477008846851
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Thu May 20, 2021 6:14 pm

    I think Slava Malamud here, is on the 'bargaining' stage of the denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance grief model

    His position is well argued and balanced.. for the most part.
    But it just no longer matters. I'm more and more convinced that Israel will be sold, and/or its internal contradictions plunge it into endemic instability - whichever comes first.
    I feel sorry for genuinely reasonable people, who constitute a plurality of Israelis if not quite a majority, who wanted their country to evolve somehow and make difficult steps in ensuring internal harmony and stable relations with their neighbors.

    Slava Malamud
    @SlavaMalamud
    ·
    May 17
    Here is as definitive a take on Israel/Palestine as I can offer. I promise it will be a very short thread. I also promise it will be useful to everyone. I have said these things before. I will repeat them. I am not lazy. It's for the benefit of humankind.
    Slava Malamud
    @SlavaMalamud
    ·
    May 17
    It all comes down to setting the ground rules. And they are (or should be) as follows.
    1) It's OK to criticize Israel and condemn its actions without being anti-Semitic.
    2) It's OK to hate Hamas and call them terrorists without being a colonialist imperialist neocon swine.
    Slava Malamud
    @SlavaMalamud
    ·
    May 17
    3) It's OK to bothsides it and it's OK to say one side is more at fault. Because assigning blame doesn't really matter. Let me repeat this: IT DOESN'T MATTER WHOM YOU WANT TO BLAME. The only thing that matters is what to do now. On what to do now, see below...
    Slava Malamud
    @SlavaMalamud
    ·
    May 17
    4) If you are Israeli, Jewish, a pro-Israel Gentile who thinks my people's having a country will hasten the return of that one Jew you like back from the dead - you have to accept that Palestinians will not disappear and will not willingly submit. They need a state. Period.
    Slava Malamud
    @SlavaMalamud
    ·
    May 17
    4a) No, it's not OK to keep them under occupation forever.
    4b) No, we will not holocaust them. And if you are even suggesting this, you are either a pro-Israel Gentile or a Russian Jew, and I see you, and shut the **** up.
    4c) No, I don't care about what happened in 1948. See 3.
    Slava Malamud
    @SlavaMalamud
    ·
    May 17
    5) If you are Palestinian, Muslim, a pro-Palestinian liberal who thinks Israel is a personification of everything you find icky about Western colonialism, you must accept that Israel is not going anywhere either. It will exist, and I stress this, AS A JEWISH ETHNOSTATE. Period
    Slava Malamud
    @SlavaMalamud
    Replying to
    @SlavaMalamud
    5a) Yes, you find ethnostates icky. Everyone should live in harmony in cosmopolitan, multicultural unions. I agree. Nobody gives a shit. Israel is not like others. There is a reason it was created this way. You know it. IT WILL STAY A JEWISH ETHNOSTATE. No matter what you think.
    5:07 PM · May 17, 2021·Twitter Web App
    2

    Slava Malamud
    @SlavaMalamud
    ·
    May 17
    Replying to
    @SlavaMalamud
    5b) "But Jews live on stolen land..." Shut up and see 3.
    5c) "But that's apartheid..." Shut up and see 5a.
    5d) ISRAEL WILL STAY A JEWISH ETHNOSTATE. No Israeli, no Jew will even start talking to you if you don't accept this premise. This is where you start. It's non-negotiable.
    Slava Malamud
    @SlavaMalamud
    ·
    May 17
    5e) If you don't like 5a-5d, if you think Israel should be eradicated entirely or integrated into a Jewish-Palestinian federation (in which, as you know quite well, Jews will be instantly outnumbered), you are welcome to your opinion. But it will never happen. End of discussion.
    Slava Malamud
    @SlavaMalamud
    ·
    May 17
    5f) If you want to continue to argue this point, see the dictionary for "Nukes, shitload of" and keep arguing amongst yourselves. You will be welcome at campus sit-ins and hunger strikes or whatever. You won't contribute to any meaningful solutions. Bye.
    Slava Malamud
    @SlavaMalamud
    ·
    May 17
    6) Once all of the above has been accepted by all parties concerned, negotiations on "what" and "how" can start. Not before. After.
    You can still point fingers and assign blame, but it's for your amusement only. Solutions will only come when 1-5 are accepted.
    Only this way
    Shalom
    ahmedfire
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    Post  ahmedfire Thu May 20, 2021 6:26 pm

    mavaff wrote:
    ahmedfire wrote:[b]Posted by Tom Cooper regarding the performance of IAF .


    Interesting but I do not use Facebook. Do you know if this guy posts on Twitter or other social, too? Thanks.

    He has no other social media accounts .

    It's not that they don't care at all, it's just that they're currently in no shape to fight. Syria and Iraq have a long way to go to get back on their feet; even Egypt has internal issues.

    It's all about the global situation .Israel is backed by the west ,so for sure countries like Egypt or Jordan or Iraq are not going to risk in a war against the west unless their lands being occupied .
    ahmedfire
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    Post  ahmedfire Thu May 20, 2021 6:39 pm

    Hamas fired an ATGM toward a military bus near Zikim .

    https://twitter.com/NewpressPs/status/1395379701728882688
    ...
    One of the rockets made big impact on Israeli industrial zone

    https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1395362270092435458
    ...
    Israel targets cook gas store in Khan Younes. Only miracle prevented a catastrophic massacre.

    https://twitter.com/itranslate123/status/1395372508195561474
    ....
    IAF is throwing their external fuel tanks on civilians ?

    Israeli–Palestinian conflict: - Page 15 E1ydvd10
    Israeli–Palestinian conflict: - Page 15 E100up10
    ahmedfire
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    Post  ahmedfire Thu May 20, 2021 10:06 pm

    Now
    Israeli channel 12 : as discussed with Egypt ceasefire will start friday 2am .

    Probably it's a temporary ceasefire till reaching to a stable one .

    One of the published videos by IAF showing an "achievement" where one simple UAV launching metal base that costs around 20$ being destroyed using spike NLOS missile that costs around 200k $  Razz

    Israeli–Palestinian conflict: - Page 15 18845310


    Red Alert [20/05/2021]:

    21:00:
    Nir Am, Sderot, Ibim, Mefalsim, Nir Am Shooting Range, Zru'a, Yakhini, Kfar Azza, Sa'ad, Tkuma, Gavim, Sapir College

    21:01:
    Erez, Netivot, Be'eri, Zimrat and Shuva, Kfar Maimon and Tushia, Alumim, Shokeda, Havat Shikmim, Ashkelon Southern

    Israeli–Palestinian conflict: - Page 15 E12zis10
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Thu May 20, 2021 10:08 pm

    Status-6
    @Archer83Able
    ·
    26m
    Israeli Prime Minister's Office: "The Cabinet has accepted the Egyptian ceasefire initiative, the reality on the ground will determine the continuation of the campaign."

    Status-6
    @Archer83Able
    ·
    37m
    #UPDATE: Hamas official confirms a 'mutual and simultaneous' truce with Israel will begin at 2am local on Friday.

    (Reuters)

    A senior Israeli official says the principle of a ceasefire is "quiet for quiet." Other Gaza-related issues to be discussed later on.

    Status-6
    @Archer83Able
    ·
    39m
    Israeli officials deny Hamas claim that agreements on Sheikh Jarrah neighbourhood and Al-Aqsa mosque are included in the upcoming ceasefire.



    Last edited by JohninMK on Thu May 20, 2021 10:51 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Last post added)

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Thu May 20, 2021 10:48 pm

    The IDF stopped saying how many the shot down.

    Emanuel (Mannie) Fabian
    @manniefabian
    ·
    3h
    IDF: As of 19:00, since the beginning of operation "Guardian of the Walls", approximately 4340 rockets have been fired from the Gaza Strip at Israeli territory, of which approximately 640 failed launches fell in the Gaza Strip.


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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Thu May 20, 2021 11:32 pm

    Israeli–Palestinian conflict: - Page 15 E10ao410

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Fri May 21, 2021 3:48 am

    LOL @ this amateur

    https://twitter.com/noa_landau/status/1395470791626698754

    And this guy is supposed to be the Pakistani FM? Dug himself a trap and then fell right into it.

    Anyway, with the implementation of the ceasefire two hours ago, there are now celebrations and fireworks all across Palestine now; the Gaza strip, East Jerusalem, the West Bank, and also in Arab-majority Israeli cities

    I'd say that's probably the most significant victory the Palestinians have had.. well since ever. Because until now they've only been on a downward trend, losing more and more with each Arab-Israeli war, each internal conflict in a neighbouring country, each intifada, and each shootout with Israel which didn't achieve anything for them while incurring horrible civilian loses

    Now they've achieved:
    - surviving with less casualties than ever, partially because of more 'humanitarian' Israeli warfighting capabilities and partially because of world pressure
    - a complete propaganda victory, the marginalization of pro-Israeli propagandists and the mobilization of their internationale around the globe which is the largest of any world cause
    - the demoralization of Israeli society and social cohesion there
    - most significantly, uniting all their people behind one struggle again, even the ones who've been living in Israeli territory since 1948. Mahmud Abbas won't be in power for long now and a political unification of Hamas & Fatah is coming shortly

    Now watch what will happen in Israel in the coming weeks. The same blame game as characterized Armenia after the war in Karabakh was lost, destabilization of the internal political scene, an attempt by the US to reassert control there and Israeli legitimacy with faux liberal reforms.

    As for the West Bank, the situation in Israeli Arab cities - that's still up in the air. A process to calm hot heads will likely begin, along with targeted repressions. Hard to say what will happen.
    However, the time would be ripe for Iran and Syria to attempt to play on sentiments in Jordan and Lebanon and try to destabilize pro-Israeli and pragmatic elements there.
    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Fri May 21, 2021 4:55 am

    That CNN reporter basically confirmed the Pakistani FM's point of view by pushing back against him.
    She herself is both a journalist and a Jew. As if that wasn't enough confirmation of the Pakistani FM's remark that Jews control media.
    She is also married to a former Obama staffer.


    Last edited by lancelot on Fri May 21, 2021 5:01 am; edited 1 time in total
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Fri May 21, 2021 4:59 am

    lancelot wrote:That CNN reporter basically confirmed the Pakistani FM's point of view by pushing back against him.
    She herself is both a journalist and a Jew. As if that wasn't enough confirmation.

    Yes yes she's your typical ex-soviet hyperzio and a paid shill. Like most such people she's also all over Navalny, Svetlana Tikhonovskaya and all the rest of the Soros projects if you take a look at her twitter.

    It's still an incredibly amateurish mistake for the foreign minister of any country to make; to provide an opening for such an accusation. Just shows him and the Pakistani diplomatic corps to be a bunch of unprofessionals. If they can't handle a simple interview, then how can they handle diplomacy and negotiations with the leaders of other states?

    But as for confirmation of Zionist Jews controlling all media; well not that's clearly not the case. The US elite is clearly intertwined with Zionism; it's all royal marriages between different oligarchial families, Jewish and non-Jewish, etc... the Trump family was a case in point. Since Israel is such a close ally of the US, the former backs it up via media resources and censorship.
    However it's not like CNN and other Western-intelligence policed media are the only media in town anymore, in fact they haven't been for nearly 20 years now. RT, Al-Jazeera, Press TV, etc... all offer plenty of voice to the Palestinian side or exclusively the Palestinian side.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Fri May 21, 2021 5:04 am; edited 1 time in total
    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Fri May 21, 2021 5:03 am

    flamming_python wrote:Yes yes she's your typical ex-soviet hyperzio and a paid shill. Like most such people she's also all over Navalny, Svetlana Tikhonovskaya and all the rest of the Soros projects if you take a look at her twitter.

    It's still an incredibly amateurish mistake for the foreign minister of any country to make; any such accusation really. Just shows him and the Pakistani diplomatic corps to be a bunch of unprofessionals. If they can't handle a simple interview, then how can they handle diplomacy and negotiations with the leaders of other states?

    Except politicians are not supposed to be around to soothe journalists in interviews. They are there to make their point heard.
    That is the only reason politicians go on the news.
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    Post  flamming_python Fri May 21, 2021 5:06 am

    lancelot wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Yes yes she's your typical ex-soviet hyperzio and a paid shill. Like most such people she's also all over Navalny, Svetlana Tikhonovskaya and all the rest of the Soros projects if you take a look at her twitter.

    It's still an incredibly amateurish mistake for the foreign minister of any country to make; any such accusation really. Just shows him and the Pakistani diplomatic corps to be a bunch of unprofessionals. If they can't handle a simple interview, then how can they handle diplomacy and negotiations with the leaders of other states?

    Except politicians are not supposed to be around to soothe journalists in interviews. They are there to make their point heard.
    That is the only reason politicians go on the news.

    He's a foreign minister. The chief diplomat of a nuclear power.
    I'm sorry but this reflects very poorly on his competence.
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    Post  lancelot Fri May 21, 2021 5:08 am

    flamming_python wrote:He's a foreign minister. The chief diplomat of a nuclear power.
    I'm sorry but this reflects very poorly on his competence.

    He is supposed to be diplomatic towards other foreign powers not journalists.
    He is also the Foreign Minister of one of the largest Muslim nations in the world.
    Did you want him to coddle the Jews in this situation?
    When they attacked one of their main holy sites. You do know some Muslims turn to Jerusalem instead of Mecca when praying right?
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    Post  flamming_python Fri May 21, 2021 5:10 am

    lancelot wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:He's a foreign minister. The chief diplomat of a nuclear power.
    I'm sorry but this reflects very poorly on his competence.

    He is supposed to be diplomatic towards other foreign powers not journalists.
    He is also the Foreign Minister of one of the largest Muslim nations in the world.
    Did you want him to coddle the Jews in this situation?
    When they attacked one of their main holy sites. You do know some Muslims turn to Jerusalem instead of Mecca when praying right?

    True, I guess it may be a case of him simply not giving a shit by this stage.
    lancelot
    lancelot

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    Post  lancelot Fri May 21, 2021 5:19 am

    flamming_python wrote:True, I guess it may be a case of him simply not giving a shit by this stage.

    Pakistan is already considered a pariah by most states in the world and their main relations are with either other Muslim nations or China.
    AFAIK they have zero relations with Israel and zero interest in having relations with Israel.
    Pakistan does not even officially recognize Israel as a nation.
    The Saudis and other Muslims actively funded the Pakistanian nuclear program so Israel wouldn't have supremacy in nuclear weapons while the Muslim world had none.
    Pakistan is basically expected to be the nuclear umbrella of the Muslim world.
    It is India, their main nemesis, which has good relations with Israel.
    So this is just par for the course. What was he going to do? Alienate Pakistan's main base of support to coddle the media?
    He is not a Western leader who has to pander to that audience. He has a different audience.

    He has to pander both to his own home audience, and to the people in the nations he is supposed to maintain good relations with.
    This includes Muslim nations on one hand, and China on another hand. Most Muslim nations only pay lip service to having relations with Israel to get something out of it.
    Israel has long lost any use it had to China even if a lot of Chinese have an exuberant regard for Jews in particular.
    The US keeps trying to push Pakistan to recognize Israel but they have resisted all this time.
    Pakistan itself is a hotbed of Islamic fundamentalism. Coddling the Jews would be political suicide for him and his government.


    Last edited by lancelot on Fri May 21, 2021 5:29 am; edited 1 time in total

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