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    Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

    flamming_python
    flamming_python

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    Post  flamming_python Fri May 21, 2021 5:26 am

    lancelot wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:True, I guess it may be a case of him simply not giving a shit by this stage.

    Pakistan is already considered a pariah by most states in the world and their main relations are with either other Muslim nations or China.
    AFAIK they have zero relations with Israel and zero interest in having relations with Israel.
    Pakistan does not even officially recognize Israel as a nation.
    The Saudis and other Muslims actively funded the Pakistanian nuclear program so Israel wouldn't have supremacy in nuclear weapons while the Muslim world had none.
    Pakistan is basically expected to be the nuclear umbrella of the Muslim world.
    It is India, their main nemesis, which has good relations with Israel.
    So this is just par for the course. What was he going to do? Alienate Pakistan's main base of support to coddle the media?
    He is not a Western leader who has to pander to that audience. He has a different audience.

    He has to pander both to his own home audience, and to the people in the nations he is supposed to maintain good relations with.

    All the more reason for Russia to keep them at arms length

    Not because they're hostile to Israel. But because they're a Islamist hellhole by self-definition
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Fri May 21, 2021 9:49 am

    Gotta love this guy.
    Those old school Al-Qaeda types taken in by the West to use as proxies later on, forgot these guys are still around. But this is Britain after all, they'll always be around over there  cheers

    https://twitter.com/LizaRosen0000/status/1395017702201303042
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    Post  jhelb Fri May 21, 2021 10:15 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    All the more reason for Russia to keep them at arms length

    Not because they're hostile to Israel. But because they're a Islamist hellhole by self-definition
    China is an ally of Russia, India and Pakistan are not. But these two countries can create a lot of nuisance in central Asia apart from sending millions of their street shitters into Russia as illegal immigrants.

    Best case scenario for Russia is if Pakistan & India nuke each other. This is also in China's interest.

    To keep Israel at bay Russia needs to rebuild Syria and arm Iran with nukes.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Fri May 21, 2021 12:34 pm

    Totally brilliant video at this link. Mr Bean and Iron Dome.

    Another of John's 'make you smile' links Laughing

    https://twitter.com/Amazon1Amazon/status/1395484705810681858

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    ahmedfire
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    Post  ahmedfire Fri May 21, 2021 5:13 pm

    The problem with Israeli warlords they think peace and justice are different things ,the historical fact is peace and justice go hand in hand. You cannot have a sustainable Peace without Justice for all parties.

    It doesn't matter how much tech you have ,the other part who feel injustice will find his ways to make you feel unsafe , kill him and you will face another one and another generation and another nation ,the more killing you do the more violence you will face , a vicious cycle .

    people in Gaza celebrating and raising the Egyptian flag,Hamas also thanked Egypt , it's good that Egypt reacted differently on this war from day one by opening Rafah crossing ,sending all needed help ,threatining Israel of any targeting on the Egyptian ambulances and sending messages that Egypt could freeze some files with Israel ,leading discussions with US and France to put more pressure on Israel .



    The Israeli politican yinon magal

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    bitcointrader70

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    Post  bitcointrader70 Sat May 22, 2021 4:26 am

    Amusing to see so many people on this forum cheering for hamas. The same Muslim trash would be trying to start a caliphate in Russia or support Chechen terrorists.

    I’m not a fan of Israel either. But cheering for animals who use women and children as human shields is embarrassing.
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat May 22, 2021 4:43 am

    bitcointrader70 wrote:Amusing to see so many people on this forum cheering for hamas. The same Muslim trash would be trying to start a caliphate in Russia or support Chechen terrorists.

    I’m not a fan of Israel either. But cheering for animals who use women and children as human shields is embarrassing.

    Well no Hama's goal is to remove Israeli forces from areas and turn the state into an Islamic one.

    Hama's has no ties to anything you listed, but generally, anyone will cheer for whoever long as they attack someone they don't.

    Example "You attacked russia, you are terrorists filith and deserve to die" same people here "Oh you attacked a faction I don't like even tho you have a history of doing bad things to innocent people? well your okay in my book".

    This is how the "One mans terrorists is another freedom fighter" came to be
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat May 22, 2021 4:53 am


    Okay so who ran out of dakka first?

    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sat May 22, 2021 5:04 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    bitcointrader70 wrote:Amusing to see so many people on this forum cheering for hamas. The same Muslim trash would be trying to start a caliphate in Russia or support Chechen terrorists.

    I’m not a fan of Israel either. But cheering for animals who use women and children as human shields is embarrassing.

    Well no Hama's goal is to remove Israeli forces from areas and turn the state into an Islamic one.

    Hama's has no ties to anything you listed, but generally, anyone will cheer for whoever long as they attack someone they don't.

    Example "You attacked russia, you are terrorists filith and deserve to die" same people here "Oh you attacked a faction I don't like even tho you have a history of doing bad things to innocent people? well your okay in my book".

    This is how the "One mans terrorists is another freedom fighter" came to be

    The enemy of my enemy is my friend, makes the world go 'round

    Fk the world. The more I examine the Palestinian issue the more I see that they're being used. Because they can always be counted upon to fight to the end to get their homeland back. Half of them live in exile and the other half under tyranny. So I know what, I'm not much inclined to judge Hamas, or any other of their factions. They get money, get a new sponsor, and convert to the appropriate ideology - main thing is that they're armed and supported in their struggle.

    And I also know that if the Muslim world didn't have Israel, then they'd create one themselves. It just so happened that the West needed Israel first and created one anyway.

    I can't completely fault the Israelis either, despite how inhumanely the country was created and is still maintained. You can call them colonizers, settlers, but if so then they're colonizers and settlers without an original homeland to go back to, they got thrown out of most countries where they lived or just killed. In their view it's better them than me.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat May 22, 2021 8:11 am

    Hahahaha... Egypt poses a threat to Israel in the sense that law and order is a threat to every murderer and rapist in society...


    Good on you Egypt.... it would be easy to accept money and investment and nice attention from certain centres and turn a blind eye to the war crimes happening just over your border... you have probably reacted in a very similar way to Russia and Putin regarding Ukraine, but the threat from Israel to Egypt is greater than the threat of Kiev to Russia...

    Nice to see the country do the right thing.... the really sad thing is that in their evil and anger the Israelis don't realise what they are doing has no future, and while they think the US is their best friend... they are like the mother that keeps feeding the 400kg boy who can't get out of bed any more...

    Defending someone no matter what is not being a good friend... telling them when they cross a line and helping them fix the problem is what a real friend would do even if for a while they are not friends any more...

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat May 22, 2021 8:38 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Okay so who ran out of dakka first?


    Hama's
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sat May 22, 2021 9:49 am

    LOL @ all this

    https://twitter.com/FredMenachem/status/1394785977747623937

    https://twitter.com/FrimetG/status/1395022609717268485
    It is *very* lonely being a proud Jew in progressive spaces today. Antisemitic attacks in liberal cities across the world, from London to LA to NYC, and yet, crickets from the people who stood up for Black lives and Asian lives—like I did and like many of my Jewish friends did.

    https://twitter.com/LauzetaVentador/status/1395160152660013056
    It is worse than lonely. It is downright depressing. I saw a tweet that said "F*ck Israel", but when I tried to tweet "F*ck Anti-Semitism", Twitter warned me to watch my language.I have unfollowed/muted/blocked so many accts in the last few days. I will never be a Republican tho.

    https://twitter.com/JewishWonk/status/1395378453717848064
    The reactions span the gamut. A few left wing Jews who feel they can't criticize Israeli government policy without facing social ostracism. Many liberal Jews who are alarmed by their BLM friends distributing antisemitism and calling it criticism of Israel.

    https://twitter.com/Blklivesmatter/status/1394289672101064704
    Black Lives Matter stands in solidarity with Palestinians. We are a movement committed to ending settler colonialism in all forms and will continue to advocate for Palestinian liberation. ( always have. And always will be ).
    #freepalestine

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsBloke/status/1277199134601117697
    As BLM feel their position strengthens, they begin announcing their actual motives.

    Unfortunately this creates a dilemma for liberal zionist Jews, who until now, have supported BLM.

    Choices. Choices.

    So the liberal zionist turned on the traditional American conservative evil white man to join the black/brown/progressive/global south crowd, and at every point stressed that they're Jews, not 'white', and that white privilege doesn't apply to them.

    Only if they were expecting reciprocity then they've been surely disappointed, as that same oppressed crowd can see perfectly well who's who in the power dynamic between Israel and the Palestinians, and they don't give a damn about any liberal zionist attempts to reclassify themselves as part of the 'decolonization' struggle, as far as they're concerned the Israelis are white colonists oppressing yet another colored minority.

    And now certainly the white man must be having a bit of a laugh about all this too  pirat And I doubt he's going to be in a hurry to stand up for Israel's 'right to exist' any time soon either.

    The more serious side of things though is that this will all lead to an actual genuine upsurge in anti-Semitism and all Jews will end up feeling uncomfortable, at the very least. I'm already seeing signs of this. All this Israel-Palestine shit has gone on way too long.

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Sat May 22, 2021 11:38 am

    bitcointrader70 wrote:Amusing to see so many people on this forum cheering for hamas. The same Muslim trash would be trying to start a caliphate in Russia or support Chechen terrorists.

    I’m not a fan of Israel either. But cheering for animals who use women and children as human shields is embarrassing.
    Israeli–Palestinian conflict: - Page 16 Maxresdefault
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sat May 22, 2021 12:55 pm

    Abbas might be the leader now but the ground is shifting under him.

    The Jerusalem Post
    @Jerusalem_Post
    · 4h
    In an unprecedented move, Muslim worshipers expelled the #Palestinian Mufti of Jerusalem from al-Aqsa Mosque and prevented him from completing his sermon.

    Report by @KhaledAbuToameh | #AlAqsaMosque
    https://jpost.com/arab-israeli-c
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun May 23, 2021 1:34 am

    Amusing to see so many people on this forum cheering for hamas. The same Muslim trash would be trying to start a caliphate in Russia or support Chechen terrorists.

    I’m not a fan of Israel either. But cheering for animals who use women and children as human shields is embarrassing.

    Yeah, but the muslims actually fighting Israel are pro Iranian Shia muslims, not the nutter sunni muslims calling for caliphates and creating terrorism around the place.

    When all your people are herded into ghettos, you expect them to move out into the desert and fight like real men?

    The way the Israelis do by building walls and then evicting non jewish people from their homes so they can put more jews in them... wouldn't be tolerated anywhere else I suspect.

    The fact that it will lead to more anti semitism is sad but they bring it on themselves when anti zionist jews say nothing or do nothing when zionist jews commit these crimes.

    When the Israeli police and army come to remove arabs from their homes so those homes can be destroyed and new jewish homes built on that land what exactly can those arabs do? Call the police? They are already there.

    The only thing they can do is launch rockets or protest, either of which will get Palestinians killed.

    You claim it is OK to kill Palestinians because they use their own people as meat shields, but the Jews use Palestinians as range targets anyway so what is the difference?

    The end goal for Hamas and Hezbolla is getting these people their land back, the end goal for the Zionist jews is all non jews out of Israel... pretty clear which option the people would support... if it was the latter they would just be leaving on their own.


    Funny that these evictions took place now when netenyahoo was getting kicked out of power... probably no link there... I mean what sort of monster would start a conflict where people on both sides are going to die just to stay in office...

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sun May 23, 2021 4:17 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Funny that these evictions took place now when netenyahoo was getting kicked out of power... probably no link there... I mean what sort of monster would start a conflict where people on both sides are going to die just to stay in office...

    One which currently has diplomatic immunity against an ongoing investigation against him, of which he would be stripped of if he does leave power

    But I digress. If it wouldn't be Netanyahu, it would have been someone else, for some other reason, at some other time, which would have decided to give the Palestinians a few kicks at the mosque and the boot from their homes.

    Because what can they do about it? They're an easy target for any political gangster. The Palestinians don't have a state that can threaten on their behalf or press for negotiations. They can't fight for their rights in civil society, because they're under military occupation and for the most part not citizens. Israel can't afford to give too many of them citizenship. Has to keep that 80/20 ratio after all, of Jews to Arabs, otherwise their model is in trouble.
    The Palestinians can't resort to armed resistance either, because the Israeli military has overwhelming superiority. They can't launch rockets, because that's Hamas, terrorism. They can protest, but that would be public disorder, usually they'll be met with arrests and rubber bullets if they gather in larger numbers.

    All very clever really. When a system has been built against you to such an intricate degree.

    Keep in mind I'm not speaking about the situation that happened just now. Of course now countries are stepping in on the behalf of Palestinians and Israel is beset by unrest. What I'm talking about is 99% of the rest of the time.
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    Post  mavaff Sun May 23, 2021 8:22 am

    Until US politics is infiltrated by AIPAC and similar lobbies nothing will change and Israel will be permitted doing what they did in the last 30-40 years. This is the sad reality which everybody knows but just a few admit.

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sun May 23, 2021 12:04 pm

    mavaff wrote:Until US politics is infiltrated by AIPAC and similar lobbies nothing will change and Israel will be permitted doing what they did in the last 30-40 years. This is the sad reality which everybody knows but just a few admit.

    Interests are permanent. People and influential families, ultimately, are not

    In the worst case scenario, with the brown and black people at the gates of the White House - for real this time not the result of a Soros campaign - the rest of the US elite will dump Israel, along with some wealthy Jewish families who have been involved with Israel. And then scapegoat them for all the evils of the US. I don't think it will be that blatant as past anti-Semitic campaigns, but it may be some variant of that.
    But I think Israel or its current conception will be conceded considerably before that and without any attrition among the US elite.

    The key theme here is just oligarchic control of the country.
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    Post  par far Sun May 23, 2021 3:35 pm

    bitcointrader70 wrote:Amusing to see so many people on this forum cheering for hamas. The same Muslim trash would be trying to start a caliphate in Russia or support Chechen terrorists.

    I’m not a fan of Israel either. But cheering for animals who use women and children as human shields is embarrassing.




    If the western countries just left the Muslims alone, none of this would be happening.

    It was the west and western intelligence agencies that made and supported Chechen terrorists and it was/is western intelligence agencies that are responsible for the "Islamic Caliphate".

    If you see who are the most effected people(people that pay the biggest price), it is the Muslims.

    The wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Yemen has probably costed the US around $13-$15 Trillion(US dollars). Just imagine that instead of wasting $13-$15 Trillion, the US/West invested $4-$5 Trillion into these countries.

    None of this would have been, there would have been significantly less refugees coming into Europe, there would be no need to wage war and no need to waste trillions on war.

    Most of these wars are waged on behalf of Israel(the Israel lobby's control the US) the Muslims have oil and they would love sell that oil and live in peace but the west is not interested in that.

    It was not not the Muslims that waged war on in Russia/Chechen, it was the west, Mohammed bin Salman stated that after the collapse of the USSR, Wahhabism was spread at the behest of the west.


    You need to educate yourself.

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    Post  nero Sun May 23, 2021 6:18 pm

    There was no need to invest in Iraq, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan or Libya. All of these countries would have been filthy rich due to oil. The West screwed all of them by drawing up random borders that did not align with the people that lived in these countries and the Saudi's fueling a sectarian conflict due to the wishes of the United States.



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    Post  ahmedfire Sun May 23, 2021 7:13 pm

    " Hamas is using people as human shields " is an Israeli propaganda .

    Most if not all rockets coming from Gaza were launched from open areas ,Hamas don't launch it from windows or upside buildings .

    Gaza is small ,365 km² with nearly two million of population ,one of the most densely areas populated in the world. Where Hamas members should live ? it's called resistance for a reason ,it can't directly engage with the enemy who has huge firepower from multible sources ,through history the resistance was hiding ,hit and hide again and people die for their land .

    IAF targeted many buildings in Gaza claiming it contain Hamas offices ,on the other side Israeli army is renting civilian officies inside cities specially Tel-Aviv ,so according to the Israeli's logic it should be legal targets to Hamas rockets but unfortunatly Hamas has no smart accurate bombs so the better solution is to lift that blockade on Gaza ,let Hamas get smart bombs and missiles so that they can accurately target the Israeli valuable targets nit the civilians . Wink

    Targeting Hamas houses is not legal too ,there is no relation between the guy's family ,house and his activities with Hamas . As example one of those houses was destroyed while the whole family of pregnant woman and four childrens were inside ,being all killed ,so Hamas has the right to target any house of any member in Israeli army .

    IAF targeted a bank saying it was involved to deal with Hamas but all banks inside Israel is dealing with the army there ,legal targets too for Hamas ?!

    And ofcourse coronavirus clinics is used by Hamas  Smile

    Israeli strike puts Gaza’s only COVID-19 lab out of action: Health ministry

    The Palestinian enclave of Gaza’s only Covid-19 laboratory is no longer able to carry out testing due to an Israeli airstrike Monday on the clinic housing it, local authorities said.

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    Post  ahmedfire Sun May 23, 2021 7:32 pm

    Rafah crossing between Gaza and Egypt .

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    Post  elconquistador Sun May 23, 2021 7:52 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    mavaff wrote:Until US politics is infiltrated by AIPAC and similar lobbies nothing will change and Israel will be permitted doing what they did in the last 30-40 years. This is the sad reality which everybody knows but just a few admit.

    Interests are permanent. People and influential families, ultimately, are not


    Mavaff is right, he has a proper understanding of the political dynamics in the USA.

    Premise number 1. The US is a Jewish oligarchy which implies a certain tribal allegiance. Premise number 2. US foreign policy in the Middle East is for a large part run by a foreign, Mossad infiltrated entity called AIPAC

    Going off on a tangent, the Mossad (and by extension AIPAC) runs large blackmailing campaigns in the US. Earlier in this thread I mentioned the mandatory two week trip every freshman Congress(wo) man has to take. Jeffrey Eppstein most likely was connected to the Mossad too, running pedo-Island from a blackmailing perspective. This starts making sense when you know that Ghislaine Maxwell's father was a known Mossad operative.

    In the worst case scenario, with the brown and black people at the gates of the White House - for real this time not the result of a Soros campaign


    You can't be serious when you say that the current race relations and the advent of organisations like BLM are organic and grassroots.

    Or that 'black and brown people' hold any political power. These are nothing but pawns.

    BLM, for instance, is a Deep State project where known shady actors like convicted terrorist Susan Rosenberg had a very heavy hand in its inception.

    About their funding, Project Veritas has written about the role Soros has played in funding, organising and propagandising BLM at length. Many Fortune 500 companies/ billionaires are equally guilty (people like Steyer, Buffett). During the 2020 BLM riots the organisation turned into a racket and many of the donations flowed (through shady constructions) to the Dem Party

    the rest of the US elite will dump Israel, along with some wealthy Jewish families who have been involved with Israel. And then scapegoat them for all the evils of the US. I don't think it will be that blatant as past anti-Semitic campaigns, but it may be some variant of that.
    But I think Israel or its current conception will be conceded considerably before that and without any attrition among the US elite.

    The key theme here is just oligarchic control of the country.


    None of this will happen.

    What will happen instead is this.

    1. Loose canons like AOC and the rest of The Squad  will be reigned in (they will be given the choice to either play the game or find a new job).

    This has already happened bytheway as AOC has drastically changed her tune in the past couple of days

    2. The issue of 'anti-semitism' will be deflected by whipping up an artifical race crisis (ie anti-Whitey rhetoric).

    This will be the main point of focus in the US. The DC establishment did seem genuinely scared and surprised about the amount of convergence between Jewish Dem policy makers and their WOKE constituency

    In other words in one month time this whole episode will be forgotten and replaced with some new BS fake crisis.

    What it will be I don't know, but I can already tell you that it will have to do with 'White supremacy'.

    3. Israel will continue what it has been doing for decades with the full support of the USA
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    Post  elconquistador Sun May 23, 2021 8:41 pm

    par far wrote:

    If the western countries just left the Muslims alone, none of this would be happening.


    Right, after all we have 1400 years of Islamic peaceful intentions, a religious doctrine based on co-existence and tolerance and plentiful contemporary events as proof of this

    By the words of Arabist and Islamicist Snouck Hurgronje, 'The only way to negotiate with the Muslim is to have your boot on his throat for if not, his hatred of the infidel will overcome you'.

    Written during the Aceh War in the late 19th century.

    It was the west and western intelligence agencies that made and supported Chechen terrorists and it was/is western intelligence agencies that are responsible for the "Islamic Caliphate".

    Dude, Islamic caliphates have existed for quite a long time before that.

    In fact IS stands in a direct Mohamedan tradition, (mostly working on the Sahih Bukhari and the works of Ibn Taymiyah) something which is acknowledged by many Islamic scholars.

    If you see who are the most effected people(people that pay the biggest price), it is the Muslims.


    And?

    Every movement starts with internal fighting, because without a strong rear any outward expansion is doomed to fail. The fact that Temujin had to unite the Mongol tribes through harsh and exceptionally cruel measures doesn't mean that 'Mongols suffered the most from Mongol violence, just look at what he did to them'

    That's non-sensical logic.

    The wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Yemen has probably costed the US around $13-$15 Trillion(US dollars). Just imagine that instead of wasting $13-$15 Trillion, the US/West invested $4-$5 Trillion into these countries.


    Not sure where you have these numbers from. The cost of the Afghanistan invasion is usually estimated at 1 trillion (2020 study by Brown University). The overal cost for US interventions in the Mid-East is probably around 3-4 trillion.

    None of this would have been, there would have been significantly less refugees coming into Europe, there would be no need to wage war and no need to waste trillions on war.

    The lot of these people crossed about 12+ borders to get to their preferred country of destination. At that point (according to all treaties) none of them are refugees anymore, they are illegal immigrants.

    The 'refugee' crisis, bytheway, was another artificial crisis that happened years into the Syrian Civil War - which leaves the whole 'they came because of the war' argument a bit wobbly. Let's be clear here, they came because they were promised free money and this was promised because TPTB take us from one artificial crises to another.

    Dare I add that at no point was the actual number of Syrians in these centers higher than 20-30 percent - instead there were Albanians, Bangladeshis, Pakistani, Moroccans, Turks and whatnot pretending to be Syrians.
    The propaganda was relentless

    Most of these wars are waged on behalf of Israel(the Israel lobby's control the US) the Muslims have oil and they would love sell that oil and live in peace but the west is not interested in that.


    The whole concept of peace is a bit different in Islam.

    You can ask any Christian minority about it. That includes more tolerant countries like Syria bytheway


    It was not not the Muslims that waged war on in Russia/Chechen, it was the west, Mohammed bin Salman stated that after the collapse of the USSR, Wahhabism was spread at the behest of the west.


    Poor Chechen terrorists and poor MBS, victims of Western interference!



    You need to educate yourself.

    That's a line only haughty Trotskyists use .[/quote]
    [/quote]
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

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    Israeli–Palestinian conflict: - Page 16 Empty Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

    Post  PapaDragon Sun May 23, 2021 9:26 pm

    elconquistador wrote:You can't be serious when you say that the current race relations and the advent of organisations like BLM are organic and grassroots. ...

    They didn't start that way but they are now

    Hilary sent out the Red Mob in the streets to put her in power after Orange Boy won but as it's customary with Red Mobs they forgot why they were sent outside and who is supposed to be running the show

    It became grassroots in the process



    elconquistador wrote:2. The issue of 'anti-semitism' will be deflected by whipping up an artifical race crisis (ie anti-Whitey rhetoric)....

    I see zero problems with this

    More pain on the whites in USA the less influence they will have to fućk around with their 19th/20th century crusades in the Old Country

    Everyone wins  thumbsup


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