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    Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:02 pm

    The thing is that the Tiger could not fire while moving so if it had to open fire it would have to stop... the real problem for the Soviets was that the German tankers were very well trained and had good guns and optics and even the shitty crappy tanks could look for muzzle flashes and start firing on targets out to quite decent ranges.

    Anti tank guns are vulnerable to even machine gun fire so they are not ideal for stopping a tank charge like that except if you include anti tank mines and anti tank ditches which means bringing troops forward to clear the way.

    The visibility and communications on German tanks meant they could act as a team, while the noise and lack of communication in a Soviet tank meant they tended to drive around together but could not really coordinate their fire power as effectively and efficiently as the Germans did.

    More Tigers broke down than were destroyed early on on both main fronts of the war... the simple fact is that while they were waiting for better guns to get into service like the Su-100 tank destroyer and its 100mm gun and of course the later JS tanks it was only the tigers and panthers that were real problems, and together there were less than 8 thousand of them to worry about.

    The Tigers and Panthers really didn't get into service in numbers till Kursk so most of their operational lives they were going backwards rather than charging forwards... which made them a bit like the KV-1s during the German invasion.

    Modern missiles and air power could take care of a few super tanks at the tip of any spear attacking a position, and the situation is only going to get worse with 152mm calibre diving top attack weapons from artillery and helicopters.

    The 45mm gun rapidly became useless as an anti armour weapon but was widely used right up to the end of the war as being a useful direct fire (and therefore accurate) system to deliver HE rounds on enemy positions... with a lot more punch than a rifle or machine gun calibre weapon... in many ways an anti material rifle...


    What do you think people?

    I think it will be a bit redundant... the modern optics and communications systems as well as drones and aircraft all sharing information should mean even a T-72 commander will have an excellent view of what is in front of them and with everyone having a selection of rounds including missiles, instead of everyone firing at the same target the commander tank commander might hand off targets to other tanks to engage and therefore achieving a potential rate of fire that is enormous... a unit of four tanks that are coordinated and are destroying enemy positions and vehicle in order of the threat they present to those tanks, but not all firing on the first thing they see is a very efficient way of dealing with enemy forces.

    I would think the best solution is everyone gets the best optics and everyone gets ERA and APS and make every tank a hard nut to crack... and see how much ammo you can use and how many enemy combatants you can eliminate from their gene pool.

    And don't forget to use air power with Mi-28NM and Ka-52M helicopters hovering 5km behind you using MMW radar and new technology thermals scanning for targets for you while also launching drones to fly over the area in front of you finding enemy vehicles behind frontal cover that your artillery can deal with while being marked by those drones with a simple laser beam... higher flying drones will monitor the ground for muzzle flashes and missile launch signatures if they try to take down your lower flying drones... targets engaged but also marked on the shared map showing where the bad guys are...

    Any new conflict is not going to be very much like WWII...
    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:28 pm

    flamming_python wrote:I was reading some material about the Battle of Kursk, and it was mentioned that about 7-8% of the German tank pool consisted of Tiger tanks (with a similar number of Panthers).

    One smart thing the Germans did at the battle, was not to group their Tigers up into their own formations, but spread them around all the existing tank formations. What you ended up with was tank companies and groups consisting of multiple different types of tanks, including the Tigers. The Tigers would spearhead each assault and moving column, and would essentially act as shields for the tanks behind them.

    Everyone did the same and had heavy tanks form the first echelon in the attack. Its only obvious; you have a unit that can reliably absorb most enemy fire and emerge unscathed, but there aren't many of them compared to the lighter units that form the bulk of your combat power so you put them up as screens so the rest of your force don't die so quickly before they can do their damage.

    Of course this isn't as efficient or effective as massing them together. Of the extensive Soviet defenseive belts stretching for 300 km at the furthest, they could only manage to penetrate 20 km into the tactical depths before running out of steam, so it wasn't a good decision in hindsight, but then again they hardly had the forces needed to do it by the book as it were anyway.

    flamming_python wrote:
    This mitigated the effect and tactics of Soviet AT artillery very significantly. The Soviet 76mm AT guns could only reliably penetrate a Tiger frontally from about 300m. Thus upon sighting the presence of Tigers in an advancing formation, they could not open fire at 1-2km, but had to wait until the tanks were nearly on top of them - even if the majority of the German force otherwise consisted of Panzer IIIs and IVs. If the AT grouping were successful in concealment until then, they would usually knock out some tanks, but the position would ultimately be overrun.
    It was a similar story for the T-34s entrenched in defensive positions.
    The Soviet 45mm guns meanwhile, which made up more of the Soviet AT force than anything else - were not very effective against even German medium tanks on a good day, and stood no chance against Panthers and Tigers. Thus they were discouraged from engaging at all, and could only rely on ambush tactics.
    The end result is that barely any Soviet AT guns had survived to the end of the German offensive, and the start of the Soviet attempted counterattack.
    Sounds to me like they used the AT guns to their intended purpose. AT guns are not Napoleonic cannons you can wheel about on a field to blast infantry squares with. They are only useful if the battery crew aren't killed or suppressed. Lacking armor or the means to relocate on their own power they obviously are very vulnerable to enemy fire to include artillery and air strikes with which they have no answer for. Their only real protection is concealment.

    Its true that the Soviet AT weapons were particularly anemic during Kursk, but that's not really the problem. The real problem is the tactical ineptitude of the Soviet commanders during the battle. For some reason they took the Tiger meme way too seriously and focused too much on countering the dreaded German heavy tanks they forgot they are but a small fraction of the overall Panzerwaffe. One of the commanders even instructed his tankers to charge like madmen at the German tanks so they can get close enough to target the weaker flank armor. In theory this should work against the numerically inferior heavy tanks, but they are rolling in with a lot more tanks than just the Tigers and Panthers. What happened is that as soon as the Germans find the Russians rushing at them, they just calmly shot them to pieces and this being WW2 virtually none of the moving T-34's return fires could connect. This plus the mishap at the anti-tank ditch is how you end up with 300 tanks knocked out vs. 60 of the enemy's.

    flamming_python wrote:
    Anyway this got me all thinking

    What would be the feasibility of mixing up tank companies today and creating specializations within them, so that there is a counter to any tactic the enemy wants to adopt?
    AFAIK nothing like this concept is employed in either the Russian tank force or the NATO formations today.
    Specialized units typically form their own detachments and are cross attached as needed. There are arguments for why its better to have them integrated from the get go but as far as ease of training and tactics go its better to just have dedicated units.

    flamming_python wrote:
    Taking for example a T-72B3 company.
    The command tank could be equipped with an APS and the very latest reactive armour. Possibly along with it another tank could be equipped the same way as well. This would not only afford more protection to the most crucial tank in the formation, but would discourage the enemy from engaging at all, if they knew that what they had was unable to penetrate the lead tank's protection.
    Taking the concept further, another T-72B3 of the company, could instead be swapped out for a BMPT-72, and would be used to suppress AT positions, infantry in dug-outs, bunkers or buildings.
    Another tank could be fitted with a bias towards tank-launched missiles as opposed to normal rounds, and fitted with more sophisticated thermal and conventional optics sights than those found in ordinary T-72B3s. This tank's gunner would act as the marksman for the longest-range engagements, while its commander could act as a spotter for the rest of the company

    With a T-90A company, you might have a T-90M as a command tank, and also replacing another tank in the company. And then everything else would be the same as above.

    As you can see the idea mimics the idea of specialization within an infantry squad. Machine-gunner, marksman, RPG team, etc...
    Within an infantry squad, it's rather easier to co-ordinate and specialize in this way than within a tank company; where everything has to be done through radio commands and orders passed down through commanders down to crews.
    However this is where the latest generation of battlefield management systems come in, including the sort of systems that are being introduced in the latest gen tanks.

    What do you think people?
    Feasible? Has been tried already? Or would the logistics complications rule it out as not worth it?
    The command tank typically sits behind 50-100 m behind his subordinates, so in theory he should be plenty safe. It doesn't hurt to give him an extra level of protection given how critical leadership is in the unit's performance.
    In reality, I doubt the enemy would care that one tank in particular is extra resilient to their attacks. It might give them some pause but what's more likely is they'd attack some more and if it doesn't pan out just shift their attacks someplace else or something else, like the softer BMPs accompanying tanks. Compared to WW2 most non-joke militaries have a far more distributed and comprehensive anti-armor arsenal that most can actually afford to use anti-tank weaponry as prophylactic fires against likely enemy positions. That's the kind of environment that doesn't really care if one tank in particular is more protected when everybody else is vulnerable. Really the answer is universal levels of protection at least for the close in combat elements which means heavy tank protection not just for tanks but for IFVs, APCs, etc. Very expensive stuff to say the least.
    George1
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    Post  George1 Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:00 pm

    Review of the state of the tank forces of the Russian Armed Forces for 2021

    Happy Tankman's Day !!!!



    On the occasion of the holiday, I dashed off another small reviewer on the topic - the tank troops of the Russian army. Last year's review ΗΕRE



    ATTENTION !!!! ALL INFORMATION IS TAKEN FROM PUBLIC SOURCES!!!!

    As a preface.

    The main structural unit of the tank forces is the tank battalion. The battalion consists of three tank companies. Each company consists of three platoons, and each platoon has three tanks. Accordingly, the company has ten tanks (including the company commander's tank), and the battalion thirty-one tanks (including the battalion commander's tank). A number of battalions' platoon strength has been increased to four tanks. Accordingly, such battalions have a company of thirteen tanks (including the tank of the company commander), and a battalion of forty tanks (including the tank of the battalion commander).

    The tank fleet of combat units of the Russian army consists of various modifications of three main types - T-72, T-80 and T-90.

    The most numerous is the T-72B tank. In 1985-1996. the T-72B tank was produced in three versions (T-72B, T-72B1 and T-72B model 1989). Since 1998, the Uralvagonzavod enterprise has been working to significantly improve the combat capabilities of the T-72B tanks. 1998-2005 after modernization, the vehicles received the T-72BA index. In 2011-2015. the upgraded vehicles received the T-72B3 index. From 2016 to the present, the updated vehicles, although they continue to wear the T-72B3 index, are seriously different from the tanks of the previous modernization. Unofficially, tanks are indexed T-72B3 of the 2016 model or T-72B3M.

    Tanks of the T-80 family are represented in the troops by the basic versions of the T-80BV and T-80U (produced in 1983-1998). Since 2005, a number of machines have been modernized and received the T-80BVM and T-80UE-1 indexes.

    Tanks T-90A (2004-2010) and T-90M (produced since 2019) make up the smallest group in the army.

    It should be noted that the tanks of the new production were not supplied to the troops in 2011-2019. and only in 2020 was the first batch of new T-90M machines received.


    14th ARMY CORPS OF THE NORTHERN FLEET
    80th motorized rifle brigade has no tanks
    Separate tank battalion of the 200th motorized rifle brigade - 31 T-80BVM tanks.
    The 61st Marine Brigade has no tanks

    WESTERN MILITARY DISTRICT


    6th COMMON ARMY

    A separate tank battalion of the 138th Motorized Rifle Brigade - 40 T-72B3 tanks plus a company of T-80BV tanks in excess of the staff
    A separate tank battalion of the 76th Airborne Assault Division 31 T-72B3 tanks.
    The 25th Motorized Rifle Brigade has no tanks

    11th ARMY CORPS OF THE BALTIC FLEET
    336th Marine Brigade has no tanks
    7th Separate Motorized Rifle Regiment has no tanks

    18th Motorized Rifle Division
    - 11th tank regiment - two tank battalions - 62 T-72B3 tanks. One more tank battalion should be formed according to the state, but I do not have reliable information yet.
    - tank battalion of the 79th motorized rifle regiment - 31 T-72B3M tanks
    - tank battalions of the 275th and 280th motorized rifle regiments - I have no reliable information yet.

    1st TANK ARMY
    A separate tank battalion of the 27th motorized rifle brigade - 40 T-90A and T-90M tanks (eight T-90Ms received in 2021) . Above the state, several T-14 tanks were assigned to conduct military tests. By the end of the year, for a complete replacement of T-90A tanks, the brigade will receive the twenty first serial T-14 tanks.

    6th tank brigade - three tank battalions - 93 T-72B3M tanks. Over the staff - one training tank company on T-72B3 tanks

    2nd motorized rifle division
    - 1st tank regiment - three tank battalions - 93 T-72B3M tanks
    - Tank battalion of the 1st motorized rifle regiment - 27 T-90A tanks and 13 tanks T-72B3
    - Tank battalion of the 15th motorized rifle regiment - 21 T-72B3 tanks and 10 T-72B tanks

    4th tank division
    - 12th tank regiment three tank battalions - 93 T-80U and T-80UE-1 tanks.
    - 13th Tank Regiment, three tank battalions - 93 T-80U and T-80UE-1 tanks.
    - Tank battalion of the 423rd motorized rifle regiment - 21 T-80BVM tanks and 20 T-80BV tanks.

    20th COMMON ARMY


    144th Motorized Rifle Division
    - 59th Tank Regiment - one battalion - 31 T-72B tanks. Two more tank battalions are to be formed according to the state, but I have no reliable information yet.
    - Tank battalion of the 488th motorized rifle regiment - 31 T-72BA tanks
    - Tank battalion of the 254th motorized rifle regiment - I have no reliable information yet.

    3rd Motorized Rifle Division
    - 237th Tank Regiment - two tank battalions - 62 T-72B tanks. One more tank battalion should be formed according to the state, but I do not have reliable information yet.
    - Tank battalion of the 252nd motorized rifle regiment - 31 T-72B3 tanks.
    - Tank battalion of the 752nd motorized rifle regiment - 31 T-72B tanks.

    SOUTH MILITARY DISTRICT

    A separate tank battalion of the 102nd military base - 31 T-72B tanks.
    A separate tank battalion of the 555th air group in the Syrian Arab Republic - 40 T-90A tanks. A number of T-90A tanks were transferred to the Syrian army.

    8th COMMON ARMY
    A separate tank battalion of the 56th airborne assault brigade - 31 T-72B3 tanks. By December 1, 2021, the brigade will be folded into the 56th Airborne Assault Regiment of the 7th Airborne Assault Division. The tank battalion was transferred to the newly formed 20th motorized rifle division.

    A separate tank battalion of the 20th motorized rifle brigade - 40 T-90A tanks. The brigade was deployed in the 20th motorized rifle division in the summer of 2021 . Two more tank battalions will be formed across the state. Equipment for equipment has already arrived -The brigade exercises in June were attended by T-72B3 tanks with a new numbering, previously in service with the 56th Airborne Assault Brigade.
    150th Motorized Rifle Division 68th Tank Regiment - three tank battalions - 93 T-72B3M tanks
    163rd Tank Regiment - three tank battalions - 93 T-72B tanks.
    Tank battalion of the 103rd motorized rifle regiment - 31 T-72B3M tanks.
    Tank battalion of the 102nd Motorized Rifle Regiment - 31 T-72B3M tanks (received in 2021)


    58th COMMON ARMY

    177th Marine Regiment has no tanks
    A separate tank battalion of the 136th Motorized Rifle Brigade - 40 T-90A tanks.
    A separate tank battalion of the 4th military base - 31 T-72B3 tanks.

    42nd Motorized Rifle Division
    - Tank battalion of the 70th motorized rifle regiment - 31 T-72B3 tanks.
    - Tank battalion of the 71st motorized rifle regiment - 31 T-72B3 tanks.
    - A separate tank battalion of the division - 31 T-72B3 tanks.
    - The 291st Motorized Rifle Regiment has no tanks.

    19th Motorized Rifle Division
    - The Tank Battalion of the 429th Motorized Rifle Regiment - 40 T-90A tanks.
    - The tank battalion of the 503rd motorized rifle regiment is in the stage of formation, I have no reliable information yet.
    - Another tank battalion will be formed across the state.

    49TH COMMON ARMY

    34th Motorized Rifle Brigade has no tanks
    A separate tank battalion of the 205th Motorized Rifle Brigade - 31 T-72B3 tanks.
    A separate tank battalion of the 7th military base - 31 T-72B3 tanks.
    A separate tank battalion of the 7th Airborne Assault Division - 31 T-72B3 tanks.

    22nd ARMY CORPS OF THE BLACK SEA FLEET
    810th Marine Brigade has no tanks
    Separate tank battalion of 126th coastal defense brigade - 31 T-72B3M tanks (received in 2021)


    CENTRAL MILITARY DISTRICT

    Separate tank battalion of 201st military base - 31 tanks T-72A, T-72AV and T-72B. According to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation , by the end of the year it will receive 31 T-72B3M tanks for complete rearmament.
    90th Panzer Division
    - 6th Tank Regiment - 93 T-72A, T-72AV and T-72B tanks
    - 80th Tank Regiment - 93 T-72A, T-72AV and T-72B tanks
    - Tank battalion of the 228th motorized rifle regiment - 31 T-72B3M tanks.
    - a separate company - 10 T-72B3 tanks
    - 239th Tank Regiment - 62 T-72A, T-72AV and T-72B tanks and 31 T-72B3M tanks (received in 2021)

    2nd COMMON ARMY
    15th motorized rifle brigade has no tanks 30th motorized rifle brigade has no tanks
    31st airborne assault brigade has no tanks
    Two separate tank battalions of the 21st motorized rifle brigade - 40 T-72BA tanks and 40 T-72B3 tanks.

    41st COMMON ARMY
    55th motorized rifle brigade has no tanks
    Separate tank battalion of 35th motorized rifle brigade - 31 T-72B tanks
    Separate tank battalion of 74th motorized rifle brigade - 31 T-72B3 tanks


    EAST MILITARY DISTRICT.


    36th COMMON ARMY

    The 11th airborne assault brigade has no tanks.
    5th tank brigade - three tank battalions - 93 T-72B tanks.
    A separate tank battalion of the 37th motorized rifle brigade - 31 T-72B3 tanks.

    29th COMMON ARMY
    A separate tank battalion of the 36th motorized rifle brigade - 31 T-72B3 tanks.

    35th COMMON ARMY

    A separate tank battalion of the 38th motorized rifle brigade - 31 T-80BV tanks.
    A separate tank battalion of the 69th covering brigade - 31 T-80BV tanks.
    A separate tank battalion of the 64th motorized rifle brigade - 11 T-80BV tanks and 20 T-80BVM tanks (received in 2021) .

    5th COMMON ARMY
    83rd air assault brigade has no tanks
    A separate tank battalion of the 57th motorized rifle brigade - 31 T-80BV tanks.
    A separate tank battalion of the 60th motorized rifle brigade - 31 T-72B tanks.

    127th motorized rifle division
    - 218th tank regiment - one battalion - 31 T-72B tanks. Two more tank battalions are to be formed according to the state, but I have no reliable information yet.
    - Tank battalion of the 114th motorized rifle regiment - 31 T-72B tanks.
    - Tank battalion of the 394th motorized rifle regiment - 31 T-72B tanks.

    68th ARMY CORPUS

    A separate tank battalion of the 39th motorized rifle brigade - 31 T-80BV tanks.
    18th machine-gun and artillery division - two separate tank companies - 20 T-72B tanks.

    COAST PACIFIC FLEET

    A separate tank company of the 40th Marine Brigade - 10 T-80BV tanks.
    A separate tank company of the 155th Marine Brigade - 10 T-80BV tanks.

    AFTERWORD

    The total number of combat units listed above is 2609 tanks. Twelve more battalions are in the stage of formation. The total number of new and modernized tanks (produced in 2000 and later) in combat units is about 1340 units, or about 51 percent of the total. The renewal of the tank fleet continues. According to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation , more than 240 modern and modernized T-72B3M, T-80BVM and T-90M Proryv tanks will be received by the Ground Forces of the Russian Army in 2021.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4393829.html

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:03 pm

    T-90M Proryv = 8
    T-90A = 219
    T-72B3M = 465
    T-72B3 = 598
    T-80BVM = 72
    T-80U/BV = 371
    T-72B/BA = 876


    and also a number of tanks in 4 battalions that are unidentified

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    franco
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    Post  franco Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:35 pm

    The famous motorized rifle unit of the Western Military District (ZVO), stationed in the Leningrad Region, is celebrating its 80th anniversary.

    The unit is the legal successor of the 666th Rifle Regiment, which was reorganized on September 18, 1941 into the 13th Guards Rifle Regiment. At the end of the Great Patriotic War on May 9, 1945, the regiment was based in East Prussia. From April 4, 1952 to May 1956, the regiment was stationed in Lithuania, then until 1994 in Latvia and received the name Sevastopol Red Banner Regiment named after Latvian Riflemen. Since 1992, the regiment has been reorganized into a brigade.

    Currently, the unit is equipped with the most modern weapons and military equipment, including T-72B3 tanks, BTR-82AM armored personnel carriers, Grad-M MLRS, Msta-S and Acacia howitzers, as well as armored vehicles of the Mustang and Tiger families.

    https://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12384838@egNews

    NOTE: "the Sevastopol Red Banner Regiment named after Latvian Riflemen. Since 1992, the regiment has been reorganized into a brigade" This unit is the 25th Guards Motor Rifle brigade stationed in Luga and as you will notice from today's Ministry of Defense website press release it has T-72B3. This is opposite of the report mentioned previously that stated the 25th Motor Rifle brigade of the 6th Army has no tanks. The author of that blog does great work in a challenging environment, however he is a tank tracker so unless he has actual photo's of tanks for that unit, he doesn't count them.

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:11 pm

    franco
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    Post  franco Tue Nov 02, 2021 12:23 pm

    The Army corps of the Baltic Fleet received a batch of upgraded T-72B3M tanks

    A batch of T-72B3M tanks entered service with a motorized rifle unit of the army corps of the Baltic Fleet near Kaliningrad. This is reported by the information support department of the press service of the Western Military District for the Baltic Fleet.

    "The new equipment will increase the combat capabilities of the compound due to improved maneuverability and armor protection of the crew," the report says.

    The T-72 was developed and manufactured by Uralvagonzavod in Nizhny Tagil. It is in service with several dozen countries. The deeply modernized versions of the T-72B - T-72B3 tank, especially the T-72B3M, meet the requirements of modern warfare.

    The T-72B3 is a deep modification of the T-72B tank and differs from its predecessor by improving most of the main characteristics. The tank can be equipped with sights "Sosna-U" and 1A40-4, automatic target tracking, radio station R-168-25U-2, a software and hardware AVSKU complex, a gun type 2A46M-5-01, a V-92S2F engine (1,130 hp) with systems that ensure its operation. ■

    NOTE: the motor rifle unit near Kaliningrad is the 7th Guards Motor Rifle regiment and another of the units listed in the previous thread (#199) as not having any tanks. This unit is presently being re-equipped with BMP-3's.

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/20211121357-WbZRo.html

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    Broski
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    Post  Broski Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:36 pm

    Does Russia really plan to modernize 3000 T-80's? Seems a bit excessive for the arctic regions.
    franco
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    Post  franco Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:08 pm

    Broski wrote:Does Russia really plan to modernize 3000 T-80's? Seems a bit excessive for the arctic regions.

    My understanding is 300-400. The 3,000 figure is just a figment of someone's imagination No

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    Shaun901901
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    Post  Shaun901901 Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:51 pm

    Where are some good sources to go to in order to get information like this (information as in like the number of equipment is in service for a country if that makes any sense
    franco
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    Post  franco Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:49 am

    Shaun901901 wrote:Where are some good sources to go to in order to get information like this (information as in like the number of equipment is in service for a country if that makes any sense
    Depends on whom and what you are looking for. Probably not one source that would be 100% but there is bits and pieces out there if you look hard enough. I have been studying the FSU and then Russia for 40 years, compared to most I would know a lot. But from where I stand there is so much that I don't know and probably never will.

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Wed Nov 03, 2021 2:06 am

    Shaun901901 wrote:Where are some good sources to go to in order to get information like this (information as in like the number of equipment is in service for a country if that makes any sense
    military balance (the current year)  is a good one.

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    franco
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    Post  franco Thu Mar 30, 2023 1:43 pm

    It just so happened that the first persons of our state rarely indulge us, ordinary citizens, with any specific information regarding the military-industrial complex of the country. This happened before, and now, when the special military operation in Ukraine has marked its one-year milestone, it is simply impossible to find out any specifics from official sources.

    But there are exceptions: in their recent speeches, Vladimir Putin and Dmitry Medvedev announced the total number of tanks planned for production in 2023. 1,500-1,600 units - this is how many combat vehicles of this class the industry should issue during this year. And, of course, we are talking not only about those made from scratch, but also those that have undergone re-preservation and modernization.

    In total, there will be five tank models planned for release. All of them are known, but some of them have already received their mobilization options, which are known from open sources.

    Production from scratch


    Of course, at the bases for storing armored vehicles, we still have a very impressive reserve of tanks, which are in varying degrees of condition, ranging from complete understaffing to completely live combat units. And they are indeed being returned to service, but as far as Uralvagonzavod is concerned, this process is adjacent to the tank production line from scratch.

    Here, as it is not difficult to guess, first of all, the conversation is about the T-14 on the universal tracked platform "Armata" - a tank that some have already managed to bury several times just last year, over and over again giving out "exclusive materials" that they decided to completely abandon the car due to the reorientation of production to the needs of the front.

    Nevertheless, as they write in the BMPD blog, citing sources in the Russian Ministry of Defense, production of a certain number (perhaps several dozen units) of these tanks is planned for this year. At the same time, a lot of guesses immediately appeared about how the T-14s would be used: from sending them to the special operation zone and ending with the fact that they would allegedly serve as a replacement for equipment in parts of the interior districts. However, neither one nor the other has any basis, and most likely, the "Armata" will continue to be in trial operation.

    The second tank to be produced is the T-90M. Again, according to sources from the Ministry of Defense, taking into account the T-14, they plan to produce several hundred units per year. And in principle, there are no questions about its use, since the “emki” have been fighting for a long time - they definitely won’t stay somewhere in the stash.

    By the way, until recently, the wording “made from scratch” did not completely fit the T-90M: for the production of these tanks, a backlog of a couple of hundred units from the T-90 chassis was used. Now, completely military-style vehicles will go into operation.

    The fact that the pace of production of the T-90M will at least not decrease and remain at the same level, or even increase at all, is a generally correct decision simply because it is the most modern and, most importantly, a serial tank in the Russian army. He does not cut the electronic component in any way, as was the case with other machines, and in general, in terms of design, excluding minor improvements, he did not change.

    However, the basis of the one and a half thousand horde of tanks that Putin and Medvedev spoke about, most likely, will be taken from storage and modernized T-62M / MV, T-72B / B1 and T-80B / BV, from which T-62M / MV mod. . 2022, T-72B3 and T-80BVM.

    T-72B3, T-80BVM and their mobilization variants

    It would seem that the workhorses of the special operation in the face of the T-72B3 and T-80BVM do not need a special description - a lot has already been written and said about them for all the years of production and being in service with the RF Armed Forces. However, recently the tanks have undergone very significant changes: on the same "be-three" they have significantly increased protection due to the expanded installation of dynamic protection in the frontal and side projection, as well as the roof of the tower, and some progress on the part of the navigation systems, sort of like started.

    Changes, of course, changes, but along with the release of these tanks, their mobilization options also appeared.

    The bottom line is that the original versions of these tanks, which were produced both before the special operation and during 2022 in general, were equipped with the well-known Sosnaya-U - a contraption that is often called just a sight, but in fact is a full-fledged fire control system.

    It includes both a daytime optical channel and a thermal imaging channel. And all this is flavored with a channel for guidance of guided missiles, its own ballistic computer and automatic target tracking. In short, although there were many complaints about it, especially in terms of its location in tanks, it is the best serial system in the Russian tank forces.

    In the T-72B3, Sosna-U was adjacent to the 1A40 sighting system and was installed in place of the 1K13 night sight / missile guidance device. And in the T-80BVM it was the main day and night sight, in addition to which there was a backup television sight with individual power supply. However, recently some batches of tanks have received other equipment.

    Now, judging by photographs from open sources and having no secrecy, “Sosna-U” for parts taken from storage and upgraded tanks began to be replaced with a thermal imaging sight 1PN96MT (1PN96MT-02) with a built-in laser rangefinder channel and ballistic computer.

    Of course, it is impossible to call 1PN96MT-02 completely analogous to Sosny-U, but as a replacement, especially in the conditions of mass production of tanks for the front, it is quite. It’s already good that they didn’t leave the old Soviet “night lights” sights.

    On the mobilization version of the T-80BVM tanks produced in 2023, the sighting system was completely redesigned.

    Since the existing "teplak" 1PN96MT-02, which is installed on these machines, does not have an optical channel, it was decided to introduce the 1G46 optical sight into the fire control complex, which, not without reason, was considered one of the best products of this kind in the USSR and became an integral attribute T-80U and various modifications of T-90. However, its capabilities do not lose relevance: the guided missile guidance channel, the development of corrections for firing using a ballistic computer with a set of firing conditions sensors and the built-in laser rangefinder perform their duties properly.

    As for the T-72B / B1 tanks, which after modernization receive the T-72B3 index, things are similar with Sosna-U: 1PN96MT-02 is used again, but without 1G46 - there is still the same sighting system 1A40 with an optical sight-rangefinder TPD-K1 and a device for generating lateral lead. Can this be called a mobilization option or will the tanks get their own, at least informal index, is still a question.

    The reasons for the appearance of the mobilization variants of the T-80BVM and the upgraded T-72B (T-72B3) are clear: there will not be enough Sosna-U for everyone, especially with such a forced release. Therefore, the troops will simultaneously be able to see tanks in both standard and simplified versions. But these four will become the basis of the 1,500-strong horde planned for 2023. Here we can only hope that in the end the release of the Sosna will still be equalized with the release of military vehicles.

    T-62M/MV arr. 2022

    Completes the list of modernized T-62M tanks and its variations.

    Their overhaul and refinement is carried out by the 103rd BTRZ in Atamanovka, Trans-Baikal Territory. Although, perhaps, most of those who even occasionally glance at news channels know about these cars.

    The fact that these vehicles would be massively removed from storage and modernized became known last fall, when retired general and State Duma deputy Andrei Gurulev announced grandiose plans to produce 800 tanks in three years. However, the actual pace of production is not yet clear - at least one battalion has been released for sure, but the improved "sixty-twos" have already been sent to the front and seen in battle.

    The Soviet T-62M tanks with additional protection in the form of metal-polymer blocks, as well as the T-62MV with hinged dynamic protection "Contact" are taken as the basis for modernization. Their variations in the form of the T-62M-1 and T-62MV-1 are also sent there, the main distinguishing feature of which is the more powerful 690-horsepower V-46-5M engine instead of the standard V-55U for 620 horses.

    At the factory, they are being overhauled, equipped with lattice screens and, if we talk about the T-62M, dynamic protection in the frontal part of the hull and turret roof, and also, probably, are being finalized in terms of communication systems. However, the main innovation is the 1PN96MT thermal imaging sight already familiar to us, which is put in place of the 1K13 night sight / missile guidance device.

    The peculiar pride of the T-62M series tanks and its variants - the Volna fire control system - thanks to which the vehicles significantly improved their combat characteristics, is now missing.

    Due to the fact that the tank is deprived of laser rangefinders KTD-1-1 (KTD-2) above the gun, instead of which they put plugs, it is no longer possible to fire with semi-automatic correction through a standard optical sight. All this replaces 1PN96MT with its own ballistic computer and rangefinder.

    In general, the “sixty-twos” from the Atamanovsky plant, although they do not claim the rank of modern ones and will not be able to stand on the same rank with any “Abrams” or “Leopards 2”, but the modernization turned out to be solid. Not without questions, of course, but quite tolerable - much better than in the original form of the Soviet model.

    How many of them will be able to release this year is a question. But, given the speeding up of the pace of production in accordance with presidential decrees, battalions 5–7 will still be sent out of the gates of the plant. For now though, this is just speculation.

    Conclusions

    Much can be said as conclusions, but the main thing here is that we really need a lot of equipment, especially tanks. In conditions when the West plans to deliver to Ukraine this year at least about half a thousand combat units of this class alone, not including other vehicles, forced production is simply necessary in the near future.

    Yes, for the most part, this mass of our equipment will consist of reactivated and upgraded tanks, but one should not expect anything else in this situation - the same Uralvagonzavod plows literally in emergency mode, repairing and upgrading up to two or three battalions of tanks per month , including cars arriving from the front. And while maintaining the production of T-90M.

    Of course, there are questions about the tanks being upgraded, both in terms of security and electronics, but it just so happened that now we are not in the situation to give full priority to quality and high cost to the detriment of mass production. Yes, and there is hope that with the production of Sosny-U and, for example, a deeper refinement of the security of the T-62, things will somehow settle down, and measures will be taken.

    As will be further - we'll see.

    https://topwar-ru.translate.goog/213815-poltory-tysjachi-tankov-za-god-chto-budut-vypuskat-nashi-zavody-dlja-frontov-specoperacii.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

    NOTE: I would not be surprised that BMPT production may also be included in these totals.

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    Post  limb Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:03 pm

    Why cant T-54s and T-55s be converted to BTR-T heavy APCs, carrying 2A72 or AGS-40s?
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    Post  GarryB Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:33 am

    I suspect conversion into a BMP makes it an expensive BMP, whereas converting it into a tank makes it a cheap tank.

    When operating BMPs you should be using them like they are fragile, so tactics will keep them relatively safe... what happens when your BMP has similar armour to your tanks... do you start with mounted charges?

    Problem for them to work out.

    Lots of new stuff to absorb and deal with... knee jerk reaction to one or two incidents can lead to developing dangerous tactics that could fail badly... more than a few actions need to be looked at to work out what went well and why and what went bad and why and then work out how tactics can be evolved to maximise the good and minimise the bad.
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    Post  lyle6 Sat Apr 08, 2023 4:44 pm

    Because for the longest time most armies thought very little of their infantry. Armor, artillery and air power would decide the fate of battles, infantry would do the dying. No sense in wasting precious armored chassis and fuel delivering conscripted meat when you can get more of tanks and howitzers instead.

    What changed is increasing professionalization of armies and scarcity in bodies. With professional troops you also get a much higher chance of producing high quality troops like Wagner. Such troops can deliver even the most fortified positions where firepower alone can't suffice.

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    Post  franco Sun Apr 09, 2023 1:01 am

    Also:

    - lack of secrecy due to satellites and UAV's
    - accuracy and firepower of manportable weapons
    - accuracy and mobility of artillery
    - kamikaze UAV's

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    Post  franco Mon Jul 17, 2023 1:14 pm


    Does the tank have a future?

    From the very first letter, I want to say: dear fans of the tank classics, I recommend closing this page and not wringing your nerves, because you will witness the Coming of the Tank Antichrist, who will speak heresy and bring confusion into your minds and souls. In general - I warned. And there - as you wish.

    What I would like to say as a prelude is that the SVO in all its glory showed the following: the tank, as a performer of mobile strike operations, has no future. Despite the fact that the tank is a very necessary combat unit on the battlefield.

    Difficult? Okay, I'll translate.

    In modern combat, without a tank, it is impossible to solve the majority of combat missions. But a modern tank is completely unsuitable for solving these very tasks.

    And, as always, while everyone is thinking whether to sprinkle the screen on their own, or call a specialist, I suggest, as usual, go down in history .

    FULL ARTICLE: https://topwar-ru.translate.goog/221664-est-li-buduschee-u-tanka.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

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    Post  T-47 Mon Jul 17, 2023 8:01 pm

    franco wrote:
    FULL ARTICLE: https://topwar-ru.translate.goog/221664-est-li-buduschee-u-tanka.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

    Another topwar garbage LMAO Laughing
    Tanks have been outdated, obsolete, unsuitable, about to die, has no future since literally WW1 (yes WW1 not 2)

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    Post  sepheronx Mon Jul 17, 2023 9:38 pm

    Top war has been garbage since years.

    I remember them talking about how T-90's were useless against leopards and other tanks years ago and how Armata is useless. They bitched about lack of jets then went on about jets are obsolete anyway.

    I don't know if it's just independent writers but their takes have been terrible for a long time.

    Edit: I should add that I don't think there is a single good site about military stuff, especially towards Russian stuff. This conflict threw all these "specialists" upside down as the poor performance of western gear against Russian made all their narratives obsolete

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    Post  franco Tue Jul 18, 2023 4:03 pm

    Posted the article to give you all a heads up before the updates arrived for Call of Duty or whatever war game you play Very Happy Twisted Evil russia

    Seriously however the article doesn't say tanks are obsolete, just that it's role and tactics will change... After every major war tactics change and technology evolves to counter any successful weapons or tactics from the previous one. Today the Russian Forces are having to adjust to the new battlefield.
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    Post  lyle6 Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:10 pm

    With a sole exception, all MBTs can be traced back to models designed in the 70s - before digital architectures and network centric warfare concepts had even made it to the reading lists of the military planners of the day. Over the years there were attempts to modernize these obsolescent platforms with new technologies to keep pace with the requirements of modern combat but these were largely unsuccessful. Most tanks went un-upgraded since the end of the cold war.

    No shit they would struggle in today's battlefield.

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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 19, 2023 3:41 am

    Actually I think the Russian coordination of tanks with drones overhead to find targets and correct fire is a fantastic move forward, and of course no real surprise... the T-14 is supposed to have a tethered drone for that very purpose so hidden targets can be found and engaged and also threats can be engaged at max range and also indirect fire can be used effectively.

    It was also seen that as tanks advance having Terminators providing overwatch to engage infantry and other threats to the tanks makes the tanks safer and more effective while not being as fragile as a BMP might providing the same support.

    Mines, artillery, drones, ATGMS have all proven very capable on the battlefield... but no one has stopped using tanks... in fact tanks have proven to be necessary.

    Or should I say Mines, Artillery, Suicide Drones, ATGMs, Cruise and other air launched missiles, have proven to be very decisive weapons on the battlefield, and drones have proven critical as recon and target detection systems, and also for monitoring attacks and determining if follow up attacks are needed.

    But also the critical requirement to have an effective and functioning air defence network...


    This is an excellent polygon for Russia

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    Post  lancelot Tue Dec 19, 2023 10:18 pm

    Since Russia is resorting to extreme measures to put more old tanks into service I am surprised they haven't started a program to use the T-64s they have in stock. They supposedly inherited 4000 T-64 tanks from the Soviet Union and should still have at least half of that in reserves.

    One good example of something they could do to upgrade these tanks is Uzbekistan's T-64MV program:
    https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/uzbekistan-begins-upgrading-its-t-64-mbts

    They changed the engine, from the five cylinder 700hp engine it came with, to a 840hp V-84 engine from a T-72.


    IIRC the T-64 gun and autoloader are similar to the T-80's so it should also be possible to do something with it.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Dec 20, 2023 9:10 am

    For some roles a T-90 or upgraded T-72 is probably too much tank anyway, so I could understand getting T-54s and T-62s out of storage and in to use.... they probably have greater numbers of those two types than any other type so even if they are using them as remote controlled bombs that they drive up to enemy positions and detonate, it would make sense to use the older tanks first.

    Older tanks are also simpler and cheaper and available in larger numbers.

    Regarding the T-64s in storage there are probably a lot of upgrades applied to their T-80s that could could also apply to their T-64s which might massively improve their potential and also make them rather more useful on the battlefield.

    I suspect they want to use the oldest vehicles that they have the most of first.

    Regarding whether tanks are obsolete... I would say Air Defence efforts are obsolete and need to be upgraded to take into account the effect small drones are having on the battlefield.

    I suspect lasers will play a key role in terms of detecting drones of all sizes (LIDAR) and also of dealing with them (either damaging control and lifting surfaces or blinding or damaging optics used to attack ground vehicles. Airburst cannon shells would also be useful for engaging such targets with 23mm and 30mm and 57mm calibre airburst cannon round known to be available now. Something like Terminator with better drone detection equipment has two dual feed 30mm cannon which would be ideal in the sense that you could use standard HEI-T rounds on one belt for both guns so when firing at ground targets in the normal ground suppression role you could have both guns firing HEI-T rounds.... or you could have a mix of HEIT and APIT rounds which are ballistically matched and would hit the same point of aim with rounds that explode and burn or penetrate and burn. The second belt for each gun for one gun you could have a dedicated APFSDS round for the 30mm gun which would have much better penetration against armour than the APIT, but being much lighter and much higher velocity it wouldn't hit anywhere near the HEIT or APIT so could not be loaded onto the same belt. For the other gun the second belt could be airburst 30mm cannon shells to be fired at air targets or targets behind frontal cover you can't penetrate with other rounds.

    For use against tiny targets like drones you use the airburst shells to scatter enormous numbers of fragments to compensate for low rate of fire to hit small targets.

    Or that new BTR turret with the two 23mm cannon from the Shilka could be used on a Tigr or other light platform to operate with convoys deep behind lines, or an armoured vehicle with a lot more ammo for operations on the front lines.

    5-4 round bursts with the shells all passing the target and detonating as they approach would scatter enormous amounts of fragments around any flying target and make survival rather unlikely. Using radar or LIDAR to track the target and the outgoing shells would allow perfect timing for remote detonation of shells... and complex calculations done in real time in a decent sized computer on the vehicle that is not inside the round and therefore destroyed with every shot.

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