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    Ukrainian Aviation Industry: Discussion

    Russian_Patriot_
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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:07 pm

    The condition of the An-178-100R prototype. The Ukrainians promise that it will begin test flights before the end of the year
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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:10 pm

    I hope they don't test it above my head... pale

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:55 pm

    These foaming at the mouth clowns have done basically nothing after 2014. That prototype is a relic.

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    owais.usmani


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    Post  owais.usmani Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:15 am

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Dec 24, 2021 3:50 pm



    Ukria has totally failed in delivering a single An-178 to Peru and Peru is imposing fines on Ukraine for breach of contract.

    The An-178 is a defective design that required modifications that Ukria could not handle.   So the fact that Antonov was
    move to Ukria from Russia did not actually give Ukria the capability to manufacture aircraft as we have seen over the last
    30 years.

    The wing span and area was changed to compensate for inadequate performance which caused a fail in the load distribution
    requiring 1.32 tons of weight to be placed behind the crew cabin. So the aircraft cannot be tweaked and needs to be
    redesigned and built basically from scratch.

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Dec 24, 2021 3:55 pm

    Was a monkey in charge of procurment contracts in Peru ? Who right in his mind orders planes from Ukraine ?

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Dec 24, 2021 5:19 pm

    Isos wrote:Was a monkey in charge of procurment contracts in Peru ? Who right in his mind orders planes from Ukraine ?

    There's always a sucker

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    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Dec 24, 2021 6:41 pm

    https://focus.ua/voennye-novosti/501634-antonov-predstavit-samolet-an-178-100r-s-rossiyskim-dvigatelem-foto
    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Fri Dec 24, 2021 6:48 pm

    They would be better off ordering the Brazilian C-390 I think.

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    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Dec 24, 2021 8:24 pm


    In February 2012 Peru expressed interest in the C-390.
    At $50M, perhaps Peru couldn't afford it.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 25, 2021 8:14 am

    There's always a sucker

    Plenty of suckers out there thinking they can get something cheaper by shopping around... Ukraine was a new US ally and it isn't the first plane they have made... actually it this plane along with the An-70 are the first few planes they haven't made...

    Most of the planes they were making they were making with Russia so while they remained partners with Russia there was a good chance these planes would be developed and enter into service...

    But then the Ukraine listened to the promises of the west and their greed cost them everything.

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    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:38 am

    Perhaps the An-70 could get a new lease on life if/after the Antonov plant starts working again.
    "Demilitarization of Ukraine" doesn't mean that heavy cargo planes can't be produced there for Russia.
    https://www.flyingmag.com/new-video-claims-to-confirm-an-225-destruction/

    IMO, what's left of it could be used to finish the 2nd plane that was sitting in the hangar for years.
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:50 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Perhaps the An-70 could get a new lease on life if/after the Antonov plant starts working again.
    "Demilitarization of Ukraine" doesn't mean that heavy cargo planes can't be produced there for Russia.
    https://www.flyingmag.com/new-video-claims-to-confirm-an-225-destruction/

    IMO, what's left of it could be used to finish the 2nd plane that was sitting in the hangar for years.

    Hi Tsavo, actually the An-70 is the only worthy Antonov airplane whose development continued after the dissolution of Soviet Union (An-124 was completed before that).  I like the airplane and I believe as well it would have potential and it was a victim of political plays from the Ukrainian leaders (even before 2013).

    I do not know if the plants in Kiev and Kharkov are recoverable, or which will be the status of Kiev and Kharkov after the war (e.g. inside a "neutral" Ukraine?, or maybe the two of them in separate but friendly states (e.g. Malorossia and Novorossia)
    The decision on it can be done only after we know the outcome of it.

    I would also consider initially maybe only producing some aircraft parts in those two plants and only later think about full assembly of aircraft. And even in the case of restarting production of the An-70 there I would have at least a second assembly of it in Russia (as it was for the An-124) and a redundant supply chain (e.g the parts produced in Kiev and Kharkov should also be produced somewhere else in Russia (e.g in Samara).

    Furthermore as I have already posted in the russian transport aircraft fleet (VTA) thread, there should not be any cooperation whatsoever with a totally independent Antonov.


    Rodion_Romanovic wrote: (...) An-70 (including digitalizing the design, if this has not been done yet and possibly modernising its internal systems). Hopefully the Ukrainians did not destroy in the meanwhile all the technical paperwork for the An-70 (I do not know if Russia has copy of those , but at least for the An-124 Russia has everything it needs to produce the aircraft (except the engines)).

    Antonov must not be a rival, it must be a Russian company registered in Russia and part of UAC


    Anyway Antonov does not need to stay in Kiev.
    The main factory in Kiev can be separated from Antonov and renamed back Aviant or even Kiev aviation plant. The main technical office (and the official company registration) can be moved back in Russia, e.g. in Moscow or in Ulyanovsk.

    Antonov airlines (or what remains of it) could be incorporated in Volga Dnepr (anyway Dnepr was always part of its name).

    In Kiev, in the office of Antonov design bureau they can organized a separate branch of the russian UAC and give some part of some projects (as European and American aeronautical and engine companies have technical branches in India or in Singapore...actually even Boeing has a technical branch in Moscow and those guys were the people responsible for the last cargo modification of the Boeing 747 (the 747-8f, with frontal doors).

    As specified before, even with a design branch in kiev, the design authority and IP right of all projects must be kept (or moved for existing projects like An-70 and An-124) in Moscow

    (...)

    On the other topic (engines) I believe the status of tooling and machinery in motor sich is not that bad, even if outdated (unless the Ukrainians destroyed them in the last couple of years), so they could restart production at least of the existing engine projects (D18t, d436, elicopter engines) and later move to produce parts or even new PD engines for UEC (as I said before, now all the western engines or components in new productions of SSJ100 and MC21 must be replaced)
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:11 am

    If the orcs shelled the AN-225 then they likely destroyed documents and equipment too... Antonov might become a museum of lost history, but that is about all.

    The An-70 is a dead project too, I can't see them spending money in a country that at best will be neutral.

    If it was in the other republics or Crimea, then sure, but... it all comes down to what they end up doing.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:45 am

    GarryB wrote:If the orcs shelled the AN-225 then they likely destroyed documents and equipment too... Antonov might become a museum of lost history, but that is about all.

    The An-70 is a dead project too, I can't see them spending money in a country that at best will be neutral.

    If it was in the other republics or Crimea, then sure, but... it all comes down to what they end up doing.

    Who cares about this plane ? It was build for soviet space programs that doesn't exist anymore.

    What would be good is an-124 because it is already used by the russian air force. If they take some that will increase their power.

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