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    Project 677: Lada/Amur(export) class Submarine

    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:48 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    runaway wrote:They are ordering a new 636.3 for BF instead of Lada, time to scrap the lada project.

    I don't think they are doing that due to any deficiencies on Lada-class

    It was recently revealed that a lot of Soviet era Kilo subs are in very bad shape and not usable which means that they need even more replacements in short amount of time hence additional Kilo orders

    My guess is that they will keep ordering Kilos and Ladas in parallel until production rate of Lada-class reaches satisfactory levels

    At that point they will discontinue Kilos

    I believe they will order some Ladas, but not as many as other projects. If they finish fixing their maturity problems they are better than kilos and allow also the use of a reduced crew, but not much better. In the meanwhile they realised that they can produce kilos at a very fast pace so if they want newly built diesel electric subs that are good enough in a short time they stick with them for the moment. The other issue for Lada is that when the last batch of kilos for the pacific fleet, and later baltic fleet as a replacement of the older generation kilos will be delivered there won't be a high need of newly built electric sub for a while...

    By the way, most probably the last three kilos for the Baltic fleet will be produced by the admiralty shipyard, however the shipyard in Nizhny Novgorod Krasnoye Sormovo announced that they will be ready to get back at building also subs and in particular expressed interest for the last batch of Kilos...
    runaway
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    Post  runaway on Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:39 am

    Very true, if they have built so many new kilos in short time the Navy dont need any new SSKs for decades to come. Not in large numbers anyway, just the one of design to move evolution forward.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:32 am

    If those kilos are replaceing kilos that needed urgent replacement then going forward they will need new SSKs so it makes sense to keep with the Lada plan.

    Very simply put the Lada offers the same or better fire power from a sub that is 500 tons lighter and with half the crew required to operate a Kilo.

    More importantly the sensors and systems are better so in almost every role it is rather better... why would you not want Lada subs?

    They make sense economically and militarily and logistically.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:23 am

    GarryB wrote:If those kilos are replaceing kilos that needed urgent replacement then going forward they will need new SSKs so it makes sense to keep with the Lada plan.

    Very simply put the Lada offers the same or better fire power from a sub that is 500 tons lighter and with half the crew required to operate a Kilo.

    More importantly the sensors and systems are better so in almost every role it is rather better... why would you not want Lada subs?

    They make sense economically and militarily and logistically.
    absolutely. The only issue is that if they replace most of the older kilos (project 877) with improved kilos (project 636.3) there will be less need for new subs for a while.

    If i am not mistaken there are about a dozen older kilo (built around 1990) still in service in the russian navy, between the pacific and the northern fleet.

    There are now 7 636.3 subs in service: 6 with the black sea
    Fleet while he pacific fleet already received 1 of their ordered 6 improved kilos, and there will be also an additional order of 3 subs for the baltic fleet.

    So, most probably after those they will start to order Lada class, but in slightly lower numbers  (e.g. 10 or 12).

    The oldest improved kilo in the black sea fleet is only 6 years old,  and we can expect it will stay in service for another 15 years at least, unless during a mid life overhaul they decide to turn it in an export version and sell it in order to be able to buy a more modern sub  for the russian navy.

    As i wrote before, my curiosity is to see if Krasnoye Sormovo shipyard will go back building subs as well.
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    Post  Austin on Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:20 pm

    As per SY press total 5 Lada class is under construction or signed for

    http://admship.ru/press/news/ao-admiralteyskie-verfi-podpisalo-kontrakt-na-stroitelstvo-dvukh-podvodnykh-lodok-proekta-677-lada/

    As part of the ARMY-2019 international military-technical forum in Moscow, a contract was signed between the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and Admiralty Shipyards JSC for the construction of two submarines of Project 677 Lada.

    The lead boat of the St. Petersburg series was transferred to the Navy in April 2010 and is currently in trial operation in the Northern Fleet. The submarine Kronstadt, the second in a series of project 677 Lada, was laid down in July 2005 and launched in September 2018. Today, the ship is completing the adjustment of systems and equipment, mooring tests have begun. The third order of the Velikiye Luki series, pledged in March 2015, is at the stage of block formation, loading and installation of large-sized equipment in regular places has begun.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:00 am

    For each Kilo they replace with a Lada class sub they will have almost half a crew spare, so making more Ladas makes sense in terms of bang for buck because extra subs improves performance too.
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    Post  Austin on Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:07 pm

    Russian Defense Ministry will receive 12 of the latest Lada submarines

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201811271715-sjxz.htm
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    Post  Austin on Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:11 pm

    Crouching hunter: why the Lada submarines are considered the best in the world

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201809271258-292n.htm


    Very good update by Vladimir Karnozov on Lada program , Interesting Lada tracked a Virginia Class SSN for many hours as the US submarine was trailing Russian Naval battle group in an exercise.

    Unknown to US submarine Lada class was keeping a tail on Russian Surface Ship Exercise and tracked Virginia class too.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:19 pm


    Submarine "St. Petersburg" (Lada-class lead ship) of the Northern Fleet is heading for modernization in Kronstadt

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/8180225
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:24 am

    Austin wrote:Russian Defense Ministry will receive 12 of the latest Lada submarines

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201811271715-sjxz.htm

    This article is dated 2018 scratch
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    Post  Austin on Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:36 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Austin wrote:Russian Defense Ministry will receive 12 of the latest Lada submarines

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201811271715-sjxz.htm

    This article is dated 2018 scratch

    The information is upto date on Lada Class and details which is perhaps the best available in opensource.

    Lada is quite a sucessful program compared to what your average Western publication would lead you believe
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    Post  Austin on Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:39 am

    https://www.vayuaerospace.in/Issue/vayu-issue-Vayu-Issue-VI-Nov-Dec-2016.pdf

    Another nugget from same author while writing in an Indian Journal this is some where in late 2016 when Lada was under going trials and initial deployment.

    Project 677

    “Even though the Kilo-class has proved
    its merits, this design no longer represents
    our current vision of what a truly modern
    non-nuclear submarine should look like.
    Scientific and technical progress has come
    a long way since Project 877’s entry into
    service, stimulating further development
    of warships and other means of naval
    warfare.” Some time ago, Rubin’s team
    was challenged again, this time to develop a
    conventional boat of the fourth generation.
    It should differ from the previous generation
    in having a smaller displacement and yet
    higher combat efficiency. Such a ship has
    been developed, and is referred to as the
    Project 677 Lada.

    The lead ship of the class, designated
    Sankt Peterburg, was commissioned in 2010.
    It passed testing and is now completing
    operational trials with the Russian navy.
    Kormilitsin spoke about the current state
    of these trials:
    “After testing and initial operations in
    the Baltic, she made a successful ferry to the
    Arctic, and now operates with the Northern
    Fleet. A series of tests performed in Arctic
    waters last year proved our claim that the
    newer submarine’s noise level is several
    times less than that of previous generation
    boats. No one can detect her presence close
    by, while she can sense previous generation
    boats with ease. The Lada has a much more
    powerful sonar system than the Kilo-class.
    This sonar has no equal; so far no other
    country managed to produce anything
    that would compete with our sonar. This
    new sonar can sense diesel-electric boats
    of previous generation at a distance of
    several kilometres, and nuclear-powered
    boats, including those of foreign make, at a
    distance of several dozen kilometres.”

    “The lead ship of the Project 677
    Lada is about to complete operational
    trials with the Russian Navy. Sadly –
    and this happens quite often during
    development of advanced machinery – new
    technology does not receive proper and
    timely recognition. In the meantime, our
    new ship has been performing well and
    proving her merits every time she goes to
    sea. This design deserves mass production,
    so as to equip the Russian Navy, and the
    navies of our allies and friendly countries.
    My opinion is this: if a navy needs a potent
    hunter-killer, the Lada is the best candidate
    to fill such a role.”
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:46 am

    Stereotypes at play... westerners are conditioned to believe advertising slogans and image is everything, so when you call a submarine a Lada they immediately associate it with the type of Car because submarines and cars are totally the same thing.

    The lada car had a reputation for being simple and cheap... not amazingly reliable but from that era nothing was really reliable... even the expensive stylish stuff from Italy like Lambo and Ferrari...

    Westerners who don't know any better will assume a Lada sub is like a Lada car, which is absurd... the Lada sub is a huge improvement over a Kilo class which is already a rather good class of submarine... smaller and lighter with the same fire power or better fire power with vertical launch tubes added, and a 50% reduction in crew makes it an excellent submarine.
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    Post  Austin on Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:53 am

    There are no VLS added to Lada yet but option provided to its export variant Amur 1650

    Interesting US now concedes East coast of US and Atlantic will be contested waters

    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32087/admiral-warns-americas-east-coast-is-no-longer-a-safe-haven-thanks-to-russian-subs

    Sponsored content

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