The Situation in the Ukraine. #28

Tai Hai Chen wrote:

Tsavo Lion wrote:Ukraine Looks for Applicable Lessons in Latest Karabakh War

That explains the 48 TB2 drones Erdogan sold to Ukraine recently. Looks like after Karabakh the next battle is Donbas. Although Ukraine may not want to fight, it is Erdogan who is the puppet master. Erdogan orders Ukraine to attack Donbas which is thus far not recognized by Russia.

lol wut

Even Erdogan has nothing to gain by going there. And a lot to lose. Russia won't pull punches when it comes to defending the Donbass. And if the Ukrs try anything the Donbass will expand to x5 its current size.

Tsavo Lion wrote:Ukraine Looks for Applicable Lessons in Latest Karabakh War

I always assumed my science teachers were correct when they told me modern humans descended from apes. Turns out they were wrong or were lying. Humans instead descended from Ukrops, and instead of "aping" the more correct term should be "Ukroping" as these fine specimens have so proudly demonstrated.

He was warned I believe for using Jamestown. Or maybe I just trashed him for using that source.

That site has been a front by anti Russian hysteria which has been spreading fake news for many years.

It was actually created specifically to target Russia.

"A draft law on the internment of Russians in Ukraine appeared in the Rada."


I pray/hope, all Russians or Russian Speaking people are leaving Ukraine, hopefully to areas controlled by the pro-Russians or to Russia.

Does anyone know how many Russians or Russian speaking people are in Ukraine?


https://www.stalkerzone.org/a-draft-law-on-the-internment-of-russians-in-ukraine-appeared-in-the-rada/














These are the assholes and the bitch pushing for this.

The lesson to be learned is that you only attack if your enemy has no integrated air defence system. Remember Idlib? After 2 days the syrians managed to bring a handful of air defence systems into the region and the drones fell from the sky like rain in an english summer. How many were shot down? 20? 30? They were totally useless.

Hole wrote:The lesson to be learned is that you only attack if your enemy has no integrated air defence system. Remember Idlib? After 2 days the syrians managed to bring a handful of air defence systems into the region and the drones fell from the sky like rain in an english summer. How many were shot down? 20? 30? They were totally useless.

Wrong thread?

I think this effort to organize death camps is part of the Kiev regime dream of retaking the Donbass. They were talking about
filtration camps back in 2014.

Remember one actually being built when they were having so much resistance in Mariupol, Odessa and Kharkov.

Well they learn fast... whether it was the Nazis putting the jews in camps in WWII or the British putting Boer women and children in "reeducation" camps... also called concentration camps during the Boer war...

If the Chinese were clever they would do everything they could to model their special camps for internal problem populations exactly the same way... that way when some git from Australia tries to bitch about Chinas human rights abuses (pot calling kettle black of course) they can say there are no objections when it is done in Europe by the Ukraine...

miketheterrible wrote:

Hole wrote:The lesson to be learned is that you only attack if your enemy has no integrated air defence system. Remember Idlib? After 2 days the syrians managed to bring a handful of air defence systems into the region and the drones fell from the sky like rain in an english summer. How many were shot down? 20? 30? They were totally useless.

Wrong thread?

Post No. 372. "Ukraine looks for lessons to be learned from NK conflict"

I suspect by the wording those camps are just for Russians - i.e. Russian citizens

Which a good proportion of the Donbass population now is as well as people in other Ukrainian regions.

Could definitely be a problem, but I suspect it's just a populist stunt and this law won't pass

If it helps open the eyes of the eastern Ukrainian population though that would be a plus, but I'm not holding out hope, nothing seems to wake them up.

flamming_python wrote:

If it helps open the eyes of the eastern Ukrainian population though that would be a plus, but I'm not holding out hope, nothing seems to wake them up.

You are totally right.

I was recently talking to the cleaning lady (a woman from Nikolaev). I told her about the shipyards in her city and she admitted that since soviet times they do  not  make anything more (as everyone in this forum knows, three of the biggest shipyards of the soviet unions were in Nikolaev). She did  not like zelenski, but she misses Poroshenko.  And she totally accepted the bullshit about the poor Tatars kicked out of Crimea and all the antirussia propaganda.

I told her that the Tatars in Crimea are not bad treated and that Russia built a new large Mosque for the Tatars in Crimea. She replies that this is just typical Russian propaganda move.

I told her that noone in europe is interested in what Ukraine produces (actually I should have better said "used to produce") and that it is sad that noone in that country realises it.

Unfortunately there are many ukrainians from the south east that totally accepted those antirussian behaviours and propaganda...even if those people have Russian as main language and and should have nothing to do with the galician nazis...


Always having to  against Putin and Russia. For them all that Russia does is bad and when Russia does something useful and good for the people it is just a propaganda move.

Russia should stay quite away from those people, they are not recoverable unfortunately. Maybe after they utterly fail and the country really disintegrates some of the population will understand... but I still think that even in that case they will blame Russia...

Russia should stay quite away from those people, they are not recoverable unfortunately. Maybe after they utterly fail and the country really disintegrates some of the population will understand... but I still think that even in that case they will blame Russia...

But this is the real problem... many in the Donbass want to speak Russian but many of them don't see themselves as being Russian nor do they want to be part of Russia... they just don't want to learn a new language.

Imagine if in the US they decided that everyone had to speak a native american language and that english was going to become a banned language... lots of americans would fight that bullshit... but not because they love the English... because they don't want to speak any other language.

There are places in Florida where Cuban refugees have fled to where the signs are not repeated in English and the people don't speak English... I remember an interview in the 1990s on American news where they talked to a Cuban exile and he needed an english translater because after living in the US for 40 years he had never learned english.

Don't mistake the language someone speaks with their orientation... the people in Donbass are fighting Kiev, but that does not make them pro Russian or pro Putin or even anti Ukraine.

GarryB wrote:
Don't mistake the language someone speaks with their orientation... the people in Donbass are fighting Kiev, but that does not make them pro Russian or pro Putin or even anti Ukraine.

one of the reasons Russia took back Crimea (in addition to the strategic importance) is that the vast majority of the population wanted to be with Russia. In donbass  this number was probably somewhere around 50%, while in the rest of historic Novorossia (Dnipro, kherson, odessa, Nikolaev) there were people interested in going back to Russia, but much less than 50% of the population.

Much of them do not care too much who rules them as long as they can survive decently (in Italy we would say "franza o spagna purché se magna" (france or spain is the same so long we eat (but it can be interpreted also as "so long we get something from it") it was an historical phrase attributed to a florentine ambassodor in spain more then 400 years ago when the various italian princedoms where moving alliance back and forth from spain to france).

The big problem is that they were so much fed every day with anti russian lies than they started to believe them themself. And they believe that Poroshenko obtained something really good with the right for them to go in holiday in the EU (and for most of them this meant to work for a few months without any social coverage)

There was an article last week in which Pushkin claimed that only 5% of the people of Donetsk were interested in rejoining Ukraine. There also another article out of Ukraine in which there were protesters from the Donbass, who had left to stay in Ukraine, were protesting the lack of assistance they were getting from the Kiev authorities.

"Let's make hell there": Kiev is preparing for a new operation

MOSCOW, 14 Nov — RIA Novosti, Andrei Kots. To seize the initiative, to destroy critical infrastructure, provide deployment of troops in the Kherson region held exercises of special forces of the APU, which was worked out operation to return the Crimea to Ukraine. The scenario provided for attacks by sabotage groups on key objects of the 22nd army corps of the black sea fleet. According to Ukrainian media, after the maneuvers, the units participating in them remained on the border with Crimea in a state of high alert. About how Kiev is going to win back the Peninsula — in the material RIA Novosti.

To Decapitate The Crimea

The legend of the exercise is more like a blockbuster story. Several groups of special forces cross the border unnoticed and secretly go deeper into the territory of the Peninsula. Distributed among the objects, the saboteurs simultaneously paralyze the entire Russian army group: they disable the runways of airfields, destroy communication centers, headquarters and weapons depots, and eliminate commanders. The idea of the Ukrainian command, for a decapitation strike followed by the onset of major land and air forces of Ukraine and the Peninsula comes under the control of Kiev.
Recently, Ukraine has frequently conducted military exercises on the border with Crimea. So, at the end of October, in the Kherson region, they practiced countering the mythical Russian intelligence and sabotage groups that the Ukrainian authorities have been scaring the electorate with since 2014. The maneuvers continued for several days, both during daylight and at night. Their progress was observed by Western experts.
"The General theme of the exercise is to work out a set of preventive measures aimed at ensuring an appropriate level of protection of such objects from possible terrorist threats. The training takes place in conditions as close as possible to real ones, in cooperation with units of the security Service of Ukraine, the National police, the State emergency service, the National guard, the State border service of Ukraine, local authorities and local self — government," Lieutenant General Serhiy Nayev, commander of the joint forces of the armed forces of Ukraine, told reporters.
The fact that Ukraine is seriously considering a military solution to the Crimean issue is also evidenced by the statements of the Supreme command of the armed forces of Ukraine. Back in July, the commander-in-chief of the Ukrainian Navy, Admiral Alexey Neizhpapa, directly stated that Kiev wants to return Crimea and is preparing for full-scale military operations. The commander-in-chief boastfully reminded that the Ukrainians developed the Neptune missile system, which can allegedly reach Sevastopol from the mainland. Russian politicians rightly noted that the launch positions of this "miracle weapon" will immediately be destroyed by a retaliatory strike if at least one missile launches towards the Crimea.

Attempts of sabotage

All attempts by Kiev to throw spies into the Crimea invariably ended in failure. In April, the Russian FSB reported on the detention of a group operating under the leadership of the head of the Kherson division of the Ukrainian military intelligence, Colonel Oleg Akhmedov. The saboteurs tried to find out the details of the layout of a number of security facilities on the Peninsula. In January, a local resident was arrested in Crimea, who, on the instructions of the Ukrainian special services, created caches with explosives. In February, the FSB reported on the suppression of the preparation of terrorist attacks in two educational institutions in Kerch.
The most famous incident occurred on the night of August 7-8, 2016 near the border town of Armyansk. During the arrest, the saboteurs resisted and opened fire. A Russian serviceman was killed. Two militants were eliminated and three were arrested.
Another group was found on the border itself-at the technological dam across the siwash Bay. According to the FSB, the Ukrainians wanted to mine it. The saboteurs then opened fire, shot a soldier of the 247th guards paratrooper regiment, wounded several and left without loss. From the Ukrainian coast, their withdrawal was covered by a heavy machine gun.
FSB operatives found 20 improvised explosive devices with a total capacity of more than 40 kilograms in TNT equivalent, as well as ammunition, detonators, anti-personnel and magnetic mines, grenades and special weapons. Apparently, these two groups were going to start a small war in the Crimea. However, the Russian special services were ahead of the curve, demonstrating that the Perekop isthmus is securely guarded. No wonder Sevastopol " Berkut "in the days of the" Crimean spring " first took control of this key section of the border.

Black sea fortress

It is important to note that Kiev is indirectly being pushed by "foreign partners"to try to seize Crimea by force. NATO countries are actively arming the Ukrainian armed forces, providing Ukrainian intelligence with information, conducting joint military exercises, and even recently used the country's airspace for strategic bomber exercises. And in mid-October, Kiev signed a military agreement with Ankara, providing, among other things, for the purchase of Bayraktar TB-2 attack drones. It cannot be ruled out that the" hotheads " in the Ukrainian leadership, having seen enough of the successful actions of Turkish drones against Armenian troops in Nagorno-Karabakh, will decide on their own blitzkrieg.

However, Crimea today is one of the most protected places on Earth. The Peninsula is defended by the 22nd army corps of the black sea fleet, which mainly serves contractors. They are armed with the latest technology, have upgraded t-72B3 tanks, Tornado-G multiple launch rocket systems, Msta-S howitzers, coastal missile systems, and TOS-1A heavy flamethrower vehicles.
From the air the Crimea covers the 31st anti-aircraft division, including two battalions of s-300PS and two divisions of s-400 "Triumph". In addition, aircraft of the 27th mixed air division are on duty at Belbek, Dzhankoy and gvardeyskoye airfields: su-24M2 bombers, su-25SM attack aircraft, su-27SM3 and su-30M2 fighters, and Ka-52 helicopters. And the ships of the black sea fleet — one of the most modern and technologically advanced in the Russian Navy-are reliably protected from a blow from the sea.

The APU clearly does not have the strength and resources to win in the Crimea. And it is unlikely that Kiev's foreign patrons will decide to fit in for the wards in full and risk coming together with Moscow in an open confrontation. It is obvious that the Ukrainian authorities are again trying to play the card of external aggression in order to rally the electorate against the background of worsening economic and political problems in the country. You can continue to deliver virtual attacks on your Eastern neighbor. Moreover, Russia, as before, did not come to the war.