Isos wrote:@JohninMK The opposite is also true. If israeli manage to destroy them in one operation like the one they did against syrian AD in Lebanon ( operation ?? Kriket or something like that I don't remember the name) the system will suffer a ver bad reputation. US will still fear anyway but you will see more pro-US members trash it hardly on forums.
If the syrian operates it I think this scenario is more probable than yours.
Any system of defense can be defeated... you can always counter anything with anything else..
And overwhelming air defenses.. is a very old tactic that will always work.. if the S-300s have 30 missiles...
then firing 30+1 will do the job.. So this move of Russia will be expensive.. Because Russia will need to supply
hundreds of S-300s long range.. and will need a ring of Pantsirs and Tors to target glide bombs or small slow flying drones.. it will also need electronic warfare very well syncroniced with the air defenses..so when one is on.. the other is off.. so they are not interrupted.. Also the best thing Russia can do for the S-300s. is to mount them on rails in a mini train ,constantly moving around any well defended military base. just like Syria do with their S -200s launchers..
So can s-300s be destroyed ? of course they can and so S-400s and S-500 and Iron dome can be defeated too and any defense they have,, including arrow and patriot missiles and even Standards missiles if deployed in ground. And Syria is the worse place in the world ,to deploy S-300s on the control of the Syrian army.. For the reason that Syria is a relative small nation and have enemy military bases near their cities.. So Americans 300km artillery in eastern of Syria can target them.. And Russia military base can also be defeated its defenses too..
SO when it comes to Syria , is not so much about what This or that air defense system can do..
but more about What Russia rules of engagement will be if US and Israel start trying to target S-300s air defenses?
Will Russia shutdown Israel planes over Israel airspace if they launch cruise misiles or drones towards Syria to target Syria defenses? Will Russia bomb american base in the eastern Syrian desert..if they start using their artillery systems deployed there against Syria air defense positions?
SO the question of What S-300s can do in Syria.. is like the question of what a NATO experienced Sniper with state of the art sniper rifle can do ? and the answer is ... it depends on where he is.. If he snipe on the top of a building
against Syrian army.. from a high building in damascus.. ,then after a few shots.. his position will be revealed
and he will be ambushed... people will go after him and neutralize him.. So no matter how good is the S-300s..
if The enemy can get close.. then it can be ambushed..
If Syrian Army controlled 100% of its territory and all its borders. and had several rings of Pantsirs and TORs around their S-300s, and the S-300s in motion all the time combined with Decoys and electronic warfare.. then it will be much more difficult and complex.. for NATO/Israel to defeat the S-300. But if Russia had a policy of zero Tolerance to anyone who bomb Syria ,and return fire at anyone for attacking Syria.. then it will be a totally new
thing... Long range Air defenses like S-300 or S-400 or S-500 , like i have said before.. to really work at their 100% capabilities.. you need a territory that is ideal for it.. no mountains that the enemy can hide behind..
and be positioned in a place ,that is 200km or more away of the positions your enemy can reach safely ,because your rules allows it.. That way NATO or ISrael airforces will be limited to use obsolete subsonic cruise missiles and some easy to hack drones to target them.. So it will be very tough for Russia to defend Syria S-300s with air defenses alone.
The ideal way to operate S-300s.. will be with very strong position ,of zero tolerance for any attack...
a policy of returning the fire to the launchers of any attacking missile.. if Israel fire its missiles from Telaviv airspace.. then use the S-300s to shutdown those planes... if Israel or NATO use warships or submarines
to strike S-300s.. then send an airforce or Submarines to strike enemy naval forces attacking Syria..
So this is the major obstacle in Syria for the proper defense of its territory..Is Russia rules of engagement..
had to be setup in away for zero tolerance to any nation attack on Syria.. and return fire and sink warships/submarines or planes attacking Syria.. So S-300s is only a support weapon.. is not designed to
do it all.. when it comes to Syria , Russia will have no way to properly defend the S-300s ,unless creates a policy of zero tolerance for any israel attack on Syria.. and consider Fair targeting Israel military bases ,from where Israel attacking Airforce take off.. That ,will make a HUGE difference.. the Rules of combat.. If anyone saw the video
released by the Russian MoD... 4 israeli planes were allowed to fly ~20km away of Russian military bases in LAtakkia and Tartus.. This is a huge security threat for any nation air defense... there will be so little time for any air defenses in the world to respond .. if you allow your enemies to get very close to your base.
So to properly defend the S-300 and defend Syria in general..including Russia military base.. Russia will have to dramatically change their rules of combat ,their rules of engament.. if Russia wants 100% security , it will have to
have 0% tolerance to Israel attacks on Syria.. and return the fire to any plane or warship or submarine or military base.. But that will mean a half step closer to a full scale war with NATO and Israel.. will Russia do that?
But if Russia wants still to have more flexibility and a more balanced policy ,that will not close the doors for
relations with NATO and Israel.. (because it will be hard ,to have any dialogue ,if Russia bomb an Israel /American military base) , Then What Russia can do.. is after deploying S-300 , provide the Syrian airforce. with 20-30 Mig-29Sm2,, to push away Israel airforce and or shoot down their planes when launch missiles.. This will force Israel to load less bombs in their planes ,and use many air to air missiles..and will force them to launch attacks from far away positions..and their supposed "precision" of their missiles ,will be zero..and will miss all the time if forced to launch missiles 200km away of their targets.glide bombs not even work at such distances.... Air defenses are not supposed to work alone.. Syria and Russia airforces ,will need to block NATO and Israel planes from positioning towards an attack to Syria.. and have combat rules ,that allows the destruction of any plane who fires missiles into Syria.. Thats.. what will provide Security to Russia and Syria.. a zero tolerance policy to israel attacks on Syria.
and if Russia dont want NATO to bomb Syria with cruise missile , then also will need to not allow NATO position in place for an attack.. and use their navy to threaten to sink their warships and do it if attack again..
In summary 99% of the things Israel have achieved in Syria in bombing.. are only possible ,Because Russia allows Israel to get close and position for their attacks.. if you create a no fly zone for israel planes ,that extend 200km-300km beyond Syrian borders then their planes will not have a way to attack.. but creating such a zone ,will violate Israel own territorial airspace.. so defacto a declaration of war.. This is why i was saying territory is even more important than your Air defenses.. If SYria was located in Hawaii.. for example that is surrounded with water.. then over there Russia could create a no fly zone of 400km around Syria..and it will not violate the territory oof any nation.. So where you place the S-300s , is very important.. how far is from the positions the enemy is allowed to reach ,and what kind of Rules of Combat you allow. and if airforce will be used to interrupt the enemy and not allow them to even try an attack.. thats how Air defenses are supposed to be used.. With zero tolerance for any nation trying to attack them..and using every military equipment you have ,to push away the enemy from your borders and their combat range.
if Russia was at war with Israel.. then Russia could deploy enough S-300s and S-400s near israel border and used to declare a no fly zone over Israel.. and RUssian airforce will be bombing Israel military bases.and their air defenses... but eventually such actions will go into a nuclear interchange in no time.. one that Israel will horribly lose..
But as long there is no war between Russia and Israel+US.. both.... Israel and Americans can abuse of Russia rules of engagement ..They can for example wait NATO to launch 100 cruise missiles at Syria and then when the missiles stops firing , Israel can send drones to target Syrian military bases reloading missiles.. wait they did this already...
Israel can also use Americans no fly zones in kurdish regions...and from there attack Syria or even Russia military base,, launching missiles just 30km away of Russia military bases..
So this is why the question of what S-300s can do or not ,could be meaningless ,if Russia allow Americans and Israel to play games , to fire at Syria without a response.. and worse to freely fly over Syrian airspace..
and US coalition can do in the eastern part of Syria and in the northern part too.. Russia will have a near impossible mission to defend any place in Syria , that NATO choose to attack..because Russia policies allows them to get very close .IF Russia close the mediterranean waters to Israel near Syria.. they can attack from eastern Syria desert.. using the American military base controlled zone.. just ~50km away from Damascus.. or attack from North Aleppo/idlib that Russia dont control , just ~30km from Russia base.. So is an near impossible mission to properly defend any zone in Syria for Russia no matter which technology they move ,without a zero tolerance policy.. that kicks Israel and Americans from any safe zone in Syria and fire back at them ,if attack Syria..
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