Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #13

Vann7 wrote:

mnztr wrote:Honestly I think Russia somewhat enginneered this incident. (they are not less sneaky then the other side) The US and West were gearing up to pummel Syria if they attacked the Western funded terrorists in Idlib. So Russia had to do something to dramtcially increase the risk to them of conducting air operations. While Russia will NOT fire on western planes, they certainly will have NO PROBS with Syria firing on them with Russian supplied weapons. I suspect depending on how S300 affects Western air operations, the attack on Idlib will follow shortly after S300 deployment.

LOL what are you smoking dude.. Russia killed their own soldiers and shot down their own plane?

And is not the S-300s ,what will make a difference in Syria or any other system in the world. .
Only a major dramatic Change in Russia policy of ZERO tolerance and shoot back at any nation who
attacks Syria will make the difference..  Remember dude that Russia have S-400s in Syria , in their bases
and S-300s too.. but they are totally useless.. if they are not fired against NATO or Israel planes.. Understand this?

You can have a gun , no matter which one ,if you dont use it to protect yourself.. then anyone at any moment
can defeat you..  So Syrian security problems is not consequences of not having S-300s... Russia have them in their bases.. Hello!!!!  Syria security problems is Russia allowing US and Israel to freely attack Syria and even fly over Syria territory,. So is a Political problem.. not a technology problem what Syria have.

So is not  "what S-300s can do"... since Russia have them since 2015.. in Syria.. but only used them for their own bases that are not attacked . is more about what hostile actions from Israel , Russia government will tolerate?
If Israel is allowed to Try , and Try ,and fly over Syria airspace.. and they do it because they believe there will be no consequences for them..  So Israel and NATO will have ways to counter ANYTHING ,any system in the world of defense deployed in Syria.. as long Russia allows Americans or Israel freedom to attack without Russia firing back.. So the le creme of the creme argument is invalid .. technically speaking even Mexico could use world war 2 planes armed with a soviet missile and it can defeat S-300s if the planes allowed to fly very close to their air defenses.
Israel is only exploiting /abusing of Russia rules of combat that allows Israel to bomb and escape.. without Russia firing back at them.. also exploiting that Russia allows israel to get very close to Russian military bases.. as their last video released by the Mod.. Israel airforce was freely allowed to fly in peace just 30km away from Syria coast.

So it will be next to impossible for Russia to protect any place in Syria ,with S-300s or S-400s . if Russia Rules of conduct in Syria ,allows Americans and Israel to get very very close without shooting down their planes..Russia will need to declare new rules ,forcing Both NATO and Israel out of Syria territory and warning that will use their Airforces to shot down any hostile planes ,armed with missiles to target Syria.. Russia will supposedly declared a no fly zone over Syrian coast.. but what about Northern Syria? Will Americans and Israel ,be allowed to continue flying
over there ? just 30km away from Russia military bases? without a Solid Zero Tolerance policy ,and a full no fly zone for Israel and NATO over all Syria , and strong policy of retaliation at anyone that shoots.. then any system of air defense in Syria will be in danger.. if Russia allows the enemy to get close to it.

You really think Russia is going to get into a direct confrontation with NATO over Syria? I think its YOU who are smoking. Yes I suspect the incident was somewhat engineered by Russia. Russia will NOT shoot down Western assets to protect Syrian assets, they WILL arm their proxy to ensure they can a) differentiate from Russian and Western planes b) once they arm their proxy they cannot gurantee Syria will not use these much more dangerous missiles to defend against Western/Israeli attacks. c) Its all Israels fault for fucking up. d) Russia will do what it has to inorder to protect its brave and loyal soldiers.

You really think Russia is going to get into a direct confrontation with NATO over Syria? I think its YOU who are smoking. Yes I suspect the incident was somewhat engineered by Russia. Russia will NOT shoot down Western assets to protect Syrian assets, they WILL arm their proxy to ensure they can a) differentiate from Russian and Western planes b) once they arm their proxy they cannot gurantee Syria will not use these much more dangerous missiles to defend against Western/Israeli attacks. c) Its all Israels fault for fucking up. d) Russia will do what it has to inorder to protect its brave and loyal soldiers.

Whatever Russia do.. they can't allow Israel to get close .. to any of Russian army positions of bases in Syria. because Israel could attack them and later say it was a "rebellious pilot" or that they didn't do anything. A new rules
of Engagement will be needed. and Russia military the MoD told will reserve the right to Respond (to shoot down Israeli planes).  If they can do that.. then that will increase dramatically ,the security in all Syria.. because will force israel to move farther .. but still they can use American controlled buffer zones to attack from behind.. So this is why im telling you  ,it will be very complicated for Russia to fully protect Syria ,without a zero tolerance policy of any hostility against Syria.. So  is not what S-300s can do or not.. the question should be but what Putin
will allow Israel to do ?   this is because if Russia had a strong zero tolerance policy and warns Israel ,that will shot down their planes if attack Again Syria ,because Russian military is deployed with Syrian army.. then only then..you will see what S-300s can do. for real .. understand this? So until Russia have a policy ,that does not trade security for "friendship" with NATO and Israel.. then any system of defense there ,whether is Russian base
or is a Syrian base... then any air defense deployed ,will be extremely vulnerable ,if Russia allows NATO or Israel to fly very close to any military base in Syria..  SO if Israel wanted to defeat Russian S-400s..and not because they are "so powerful".but because Russia is not operating their defenses correctly. they could do it..
if Russia allows israel to fly 30km close to their bases.. understand ?  So any judgement of how Russian equipment works ,,is totally pointless if they are not used properly. or not used at all ..understand?.  S-400s or S-300s that have low mobility are supposed to be used far from enemy lines and not in the frontline or close to the enemy.. with short and medium air defenses + combined with your Airforce pushing the enemy farther from the the targets they want to destroy.. Is all about of keeping the enemy at distance.. if you allow Israel to be close.. then you are not using S-300s at their maximum capabilities..and instead under a major risk.. the point of the long range of S-300s is that they can fire at the enemy far away of their missiles range.. understand? but if they are allowed to get close.. then S-300s lose their (we can shoot you and you dont) advantage.

If the same concept of evaluating the peformance of a NATO sniper rifle used by British Special forces..
If they deployed at distance ,and their position not know ,they can be lethal.. but if the sniper try to shoot from 10 meters of distance will be owned by anyone with a cheap  hand gun.. So the distance an enemy is,from the position you want to defend is extremely important.. if you allow them to position ,at combat distance ,then they can shoot at the thing you want to protect. So the future success of Israel operations in Syria.. will depend more
on Russia policies ,than in any deployment of S-300s.. because if Russia allows Israel to close the distance and position for a coordinated attack on Syria.. then they will be allowing Israel to try and try and continue trying until they get it.

This is why even terrorist in Idlib with low quality drones, can try and try and try with impunity to target Russia military base.. heck ,, Russia told they lose 2 soldiers in their military base.. consequences of terrorist artillery..
so can you see how important and critical is for a proper defense to keep enemy far from your positions?
If you can pin down an enemy far from their combat range...then they can't harm you at all ,and not even have a chance to try. and Israel is enemy of Russia. they never were friends.. the only use Russia ,and pretend to be their friends because they will like to have doors open with Russia in case the American empire collapse. But in Syria they were arming terrorist to fight Russian army. So Russia will need to push away Israel airforce as far as possible in a way that it will not look like a declaration of war..

by the way.. if Russia could deploy a forward military base in Lebanon close to israel borders.. it will be able to lock on Israel airforce and spot all the time their low flying planes ,and Syrian army launch the missiles .. significantly complicate Israel tactics ,when it comes to the Syrian coast. Also Russia can turn all LATAKIA the entire city in a military base.. and allow Syrian army to store there their missiles..that way if Israel attacks again the base ,it will be attacking Russia military base..   So it will be defacto an act of war and Russia retaliate at Israel military bases..  Russia should create also Chinese military bases ,very huge ones in Syria..  in Damascus and Aleppo. and any plane who fire missiles in their direction shotdown.. this will complicate for NATO any bombing.. because China and Russia will have a right to retaliate at their warships ,if their bases attacked.

Russia and CHina can make Syria safer by creating more military bases ,big ones to shield those zones from being bombed by Israel and NATO.. then it will be impossible for NATO or ISrael to fire a missile to Syria without that missile fly above a Russia or Chinese military base.. This is to do their same games.. Americans created a base in eastern syrian desert to shield it from being bombed by Russia.. so Russia and China all they need to do is create more military bases.. big ones.. and encircle with the bases the most important Syrian cities.. If NATO attack their bases.. then they will consider fair to bomb American military bases in syria .

Some Russian ships also have S-300, & they already had CGs deployed off Syria.
Lebanon may also be supplied with them so that airspace is denied to Israel.
They can also put some S-300s in Iraq, farther away from Israel.

Vann7 wrote:

That is already happening, Neither Russia or NATO or Israel desire a direct confrontation. What Russia needs to do is deter the US and Israel from attacking Syrian, Iranian and Hezbollah troops aas they are the essential offensive ground component of the war. When the Idlib offensive goes down they want the Syrians to be able cover that battlefield and also have the IFF to not shoot down Russian planes that will be pummellig Idlib.

mnztr wrote:

auslander wrote:

mnztr wrote:Honestly I think Russia somewhat enginneered this incident. (they are not less sneaky then the other side)...................

Whatever you are smoking, be advised if you do it in my little village, you will spend the better part of the next 20 years counting trees.

You don't think Mother Russia send 15 of its men to their deaths to politically justify arming the Syrians with S300? apparently you have spent the last 20 years counting the trees, thus you are so familiar with the outcome.  

Well, my little village is Sevastopol, and Belbek is but a very few klicks north of our house. Oddly, at the memorial service for the IL crew couple days ago at Belbek, no mention was made of the possibility of Mother killing 15 of her own. Keep on smoking what you've got, makes your comments interesting.

Well that was decisive.



Can someone give us more detail on the upgrades to the Syrian Air-defense command.
What could these upgrades possibly be?

ELINT News
@ELINTNews
·
6h
#BREAKING: Sources now stating that the first S-300 systems are already in Syria. The first S-300 systems for Syrian Air Defence Forces were delivered on Sept 22nd. The S-300s were loaded on Russian Il-76 transport aircraft, which arrived at the Khmeimim Air Base -
@Defence_blog

In any case, even if the Israeli F-16s weren't there when the IL-20 was hit, it's a big mistake of not having the IFF or a working liaison with the Russians that doomed it:
https://nv.ua/opinion/goltz/budut-vrat-dalshe-novaja-teorija-o-sbitom-il-20-v-sirii-2496158.html

Now the Israelis r running out of their bag of tricks! They can forget of "Greater Israel from the Sinai to the Euphrates"!

An S-400 screenshot claimed to be just before the incident. Note the individual ID of each F-16, with one very close to the coast, wonder what that is based on? Also the position of the S-200 battery (a long way inland) must have been there as a preset input. No RuN ships shown anywhere near the shore.

Well this is interesting, especially the part I underlined. Not sure if these statements actually reflect the official position though.

BEIRUT, LEBANON (7:00 P.M.) – The Russian military has established a no-fly zone over the Latakia province of western Syria, Russian Senator and former Air Force commander Viktor Bondarev stated on Monday.

“The establishment of a no-fly zone over the Russian military base in Latakia will prevent a repeat of the IL-20 aircraft tragedy,” Bondarev told the Russian Federation’s Council this evening.

“After creating a no-fly zone in Latakia, it is necessary to announce that any unauthorized objects in the sky over Hmeimim Airport will definitely be eliminated,” he added.

The Russian senator would add that the S-300 will not only be deployed at the Hmeimim Airbase, but also, in several parts of the country.

Earlier this evening, Russian President Vladimir Putin and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke on the phone to discuss the current situation in Syria.

Reports from Moscow indicated that Putin informed Netanyahu that Russia does not accept Israel’s version of the events that took place on the night of the September 17th.

Russia expects its relations with Israel to remain the same, despite the upcoming delivery of the S-300 air defense system to Syria.

https://mobile.almasdarnews.com/article/breaking-russia-establishes-no-fly-zone-over-latakia-province-diplomat/

Ripped from GunshipDemocracty post on Il-20 thread.


MOSCOW, September 24 (Itar-Tass) - RIA Novosti.

Russia will give Syria a modern S-300 air defense complex within two weeks, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said. "It is capable of intercepting air attack means over a range of more than 250 kilometers and simultaneously hitting several air targets," he said.

According to Shoigu, the S-300 will significantly strengthen the combat capabilities of Syrian air defense. The minister recalled that Russia in 2013 suspended supplies to Damascus of the S-300 complex, but now the situation has changed, and not through Moscow's fault.

In addition, Russia will supply Syria with modern automated control systems for air defense command posts. "This will ensure the centralized management of all Syrian air defense forces and forces, monitoring of the air situation and prompt delivery of target designations.The main thing will be to ensure the identification of all Russian aircraft by Syrian air defense means," Shoigu stressed.

Russia is forced to respond to Israeli actions in Syria, Shoigu said. He also said that Russia would suppress satellite navigation, on-board radar systems and the communications of combat aircraft attacking objects on the territory of the country in the Mediterranean Sea adjacent to Syria.

The head of the Defense Ministry noted that Moscow is compelled to take adequate response measures because of Israel's actions in order to strengthen the security of the Russian military.

Shoigu expressed his confidence that the actions taken by Russia "will cool" the hotheads "and keep from rash actions." "Otherwise, we will have to respond in accordance with the current situation," the minister concluded.

The Kremlin stressed that the delivery of Syria S-300 is not directed against third countries, but is caused only by the desire to protect the Russian military in this country.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BabakTaghvaee/status/1044268835598213121

Just found a Flightradar24 track that shows a transponder on Russian Air Force 223rd Flight Unit Ilyushin Il-76MD plane flying from Russian Air Force base in Mozdok Ossetia to Humaymim Russian AFB in Latakia Syria apart from through Turkish airspace with transponder off!

Very useful shortcut if there is a lot to be shipped quickly. Good for Turkey.

It looks as if Russia is in a big hurry to get this stuff in. A possible reason is that the terrorists seem to have rejected the Idlib peace deal and are flying drones at their base again which the Russians hate. Expect the Russian attacks on Idlib to restart 15th October so a few extra S-300 systems could be very useful to deter threatened USFUK action.

There are rumours out there that six systems will be shipped. One suspects that the RuAF will try and operate them in 'training' mode to avoid giving all their secrets away.

A quote I have found @ejmalrai: If #Syria shoot down one single #US jet and gets 300 US cruise missiles in response, the Middle East will speak about Syria downing a US jet for centuries.

Isos wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/BabakTaghvaee/status/1044268835598213121

From your link, note claim that they are S-300PMU-2 and operational in just over 2 days!

Babak Taghvaee
@BabakTaghvaee
·
3h
#BREAKING: Meet #Syria|n Arab Air Defense Force's S-300PMU-2 SAM systems which have arrived #Syria to target #Israel|i fighter jets which might fly close to the #Russia|n military bases at #Latakia & #Tartus from 00:01AM Zulu on 27/09/2018.

Rumor has it S 300 is operational now.

If #Syria shoot down one single #US jet and gets 300 US cruise missiles in response, the Middle East will speak about Syria downing a US jet for centuries.

The Serbs shot down a US F-117 & the Syrians at least 1 US made Israeli F-16 already! Nothing new!

JohninMK wrote:

Isos wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/BabakTaghvaee/status/1044268835598213121

From your link, note claim that they are S-300PMU-2 and operational in just over 2 days!

Babak Taghvaee
@BabakTaghvaee
·
3h
#BREAKING: Meet #Syria|n Arab Air Defense Force's S-300PMU-2 SAM systems which have arrived #Syria to target #Israel|i fighter jets which might fly close to the #Russia|n military bases at #Latakia & #Tartus from 00:01AM Zulu on 27/09/2018.

I don't think he is a reliable source...

JohninMK wrote:An S-400 screenshot claimed to be just before the incident. Note the individual ID of each F-16, with one very close to the coast, wonder what that is based on? Also the position of the S-200 battery (a long way inland) must have been there as a preset input. No RuN ships shown anywhere near the shore.

Whole sequence of the radar tracking here

https://mobile.twitter.com/miladvisor/status/1044297635539095553

https://mobile.twitter.com/Syrian_SR/status/1044225103637221378

They say thise are the first images of s-300 delivries by a an-124

S-300 is not new for the Syrian Armed Forces. Neither for their servicemen. And Russian instructors will do their job on the ground.

This situation only means that Syria is openly and fastly increasing their number of S-300 over the previous basis.

The most interesting side of this new is not emerging.

auslander wrote:

mnztr wrote:

auslander wrote:

mnztr wrote:Honestly I think Russia somewhat enginneered this incident. (they are not less sneaky then the other side)...................

Whatever you are smoking, be advised if you do it in my little village, you will spend the better part of the next 20 years counting trees.

You don't think Mother Russia send 15 of its men to their deaths to politically justify arming the Syrians with S300? apparently you have spent the last 20 years counting the trees, thus you are so familiar with the outcome.  

Well, my little village is Sevastopol, and Belbek is but a very few klicks north of our house. Oddly, at the memorial service for the IL crew couple days ago at Belbek, no mention was made of the possibility of Mother killing 15 of her own. Keep on smoking what you've got, makes your comments interesting.

Ah so you are very close to the issue and emotional about it. I understand. Just like all those American mothers who lost sons in Iraq and want to believe it was for some good. In this case it might be. This manuvering, if successful, will save Russian and Syrian lives.

Radioelectronic shield: Defense Ministry deploys EW assets in Syria

New complexes have already been delivered to the air base of Khmeimim


The Ministry of Defense of Russia began to dramatically strengthen the grouping of electronic warfare (EW) weapons in Syria. The first electronic warfare complexes on Monday were delivered by IL-76 aircraft to the air base of Khmeimim

The task of the Russian means of electronic warfare will be the suppression of airborne radars, communication systems and control of aircraft that will attack the territory of Syria. Also Russian REB systems will be engaged in suppression of satellite navigation systems. In addition to the SAR itself, the EW faction will affect targets in the surrounding areas over the Mediterranean Sea.

According to the editor-in-chief of the Internet project MilitaryRussia Dmitry Kornev, most likely, the systems "Krasuha-4" and R-330ZH "Resident" were transferred to Syria. But it is possible that in the SAR will also be the newest mobile complex REB "Divnomorie". Russian means of REB can create an impenetrable radioelectronic dome over the Syrian coast and the adjacent water area of ​​the Mediterranean Sea within a radius of several hundred kilometers.

As Izvestia was told by several sources close to the military department, Damascus will be given a regimental set of the S-300PMU-2 "Favoryt" anti-aircraft missile system, the delivery will be carried out from the reserves of the Russian army.

Standard regimental kits are two anti-aircraft missile battalions. In each 12 launchers (PU) with four anti-aircraft guided missiles. In addition to the PU, the set includes a radar station - the all-high-altitude detector 64H6E2. The radar detects targets at any altitude within a radius of several hundred kilometers. Data is transmitted in real time to the control point and to launchers using built-in secure communication channels

More:
https://iz.ru/792721/aleksei-ramm-bogdan-stepovoi-aleksei-kozachenko/radioelektronnyi-shchit-minoborony-razvorachivaet-v-sirii-sredstva-reb

Way more serious than i though, This means business

This means 96 ready to launch missiles right?

Boy did Israelis royally screwed the pooch here or what...

They spent nearly a decade keeping S-300 away from SAA and not only were they successfull at it but they also got free pass from Russia to strike at will all over Syria.

But instead of apologizing and eating tiny slice of humble pie after this s**tstorm they went to Moscow and gave MoD some BS story while Russians​ were probably looking at their own data and said: "You fooking kidding me here dude???"

So now they are stuck in way worse situation than SAA just having S-300 because in addition to having S-300, that same S-300 is plugged​ directly into VKS sensor network and pretty much remotely operated with full deniability by Russian troops.

So now 555th can blow whatever they want out of the sky and then choose if they want to sign off on it or let SAA take the credit/fall.

All the while Russian EW systems are roasting the wildlife above West Syria 24/7.

Bravo Israelis, you just flushed decades of effort down the toilet and got stuck with worst case scenario because you let your ego do the thinking. Poetic...