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    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

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    Rodinazombie

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    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Rodinazombie on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:32 pm

    Iver never seen john use foul language until now.

    So when he writes FFS, id take notice :p

    Hopefully that will wake him up and actually translate his posts.


    Last edited by Rodinazombie on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Rodinazombie

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Rodinazombie on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:35 pm

    Solncepek wrote:Интервью военного эксперта, постоянного автора журнала «Арсенал Отечества», специалиста в области применения Военно-космических сил Алексея Леонкова

    Алексей Петрович, Владимир Владимирович Путин назвал неспровоцированное нападение турецкого истребителя на российский самолет, возвращающийся на базу после атаки на позиции ИГИЛ, «ударом в спину». Вы согласны с этой оценкой?
    Как можно спорить с президентом? Только мне кажется, что он, кроме общеупотребительного значения этой фразы, он имел в виду дополнительный смысл. Анализ показывает, что нападение на Су-24М2 российских ВКС было заранее спланировано Турцией и ее военными партнерами. В этом случае речь идет уже об операции «Удар в спину».
    Действительно, наш самолет поджидали в засаде турецкие перехватчики, на земле располагалась диверсионно-разведывательная группа, замаскированная под местных туркоманов, были заранее завезены съемочные группы CNN и FOX…
    Это только тактическое обеспечение финала. Сама операция началась гораздо раньше. На протяжении всего периода действия российских ВКС — разведка стран НАТО не сидела сложа руки. За действиями нашей авиации велся постоянный мониторинг средствами космической, воздушной и наземной разведок. В самом нападении было задействовано несколько комплексов разведки и целеуказания — как минимум 3, а также два F-16 с новейшими ракетами AIM-9X.
    Как все происходило?
    Самолет ВВС США Boeing E-3 Sentry AWACS взлетел 24 ноября с авиабазы Превеза в Греции. Второй Е-3А ВВС Саудовской Аравии взлетел с авиабазы Riyadh. Оба самолета выполняли одну общую задачу — определение точного местоположения самолетов ВКС России. Они же и выбрали «жертву».
    Американский Е-3А должен был определять режим работы РЛС управления оружием самолета Су-24М2, проверять, находится ли она в состоянии поиска или уже выполнила захват и сопровождает цель, вырабатывая данные для стрельбы. Известно, что AWACS может управлять действиями авиации в бою и передавать БРЭО и ПНК самолетов информацию для ведения боевых действий.
    То есть определить, насколько беззащитен наш самолет?
    Получается, что да. Как известно, Су-24М2 возвращался с задания, и его ПНК работал в режиме «навигация» совместно с ГЛОНАСС, он шел на базу и не готовился к активным действиям. Е-3 все время передавали подробную информацию о Су-24М2 паре патрульных турецких F-16CJ. Этот самолет специально выпускается для Турции. Его особенностью является наличие компьютера, управляющего новым радаром AN/APG-68 и выполняющего роль второго пилота-штурмана.
    Но этой информации явно недостаточно для выхода на высокоскоростную цель. Использовалось еще что-то?
    Действительно, точность выхода истребителей F-16CJ дополнительно обеспечивали наземные комплексы ПВО Patriot США, размещенные в Турции, а точнее их многофункциональные РЛС AN/MPQ-53. ЗРК Patriot может работать с Е-3 и спутниками радиоэлектронной разведки MENTOR, не исключено, что в спутниковой группировке участвовал еще КА «Геосат».
    Траектория полета F-16CJ говорит о высокоточном выходе на цель по методу триангуляции: пара Е-3А плюс РЛС ЗРК Patriot плюс геостационарные спутники РЭР MENTOR и, возможно, КА «Геосат».

    При этом Е-3 давали указания, где наш самолет в воздухе, определяли его эшелон, скорость, состояние управления оружием, РЛС ЗРК Patriot совместно со спутником радиоэлектронной разведки MENTOR обеспечивал телеметрию движения Су-24М2 относительно поверхности — то есть выдал точный прогнозируемый сектор появления нашего самолета относительно гористой местности.
    Получается, что турецкие истребители абсолютно точно знали, где ждать наш самолет в засаде?
    Конечно. Пара F-16CJ вышла в район пуска и с расстояния 4−6 километров, практически в упор (!) пустила ракету «воздух-воздух» AIM-9X Sidewinder в заднюю полусферу российского бомбардировщика. При этом БРЛС AN/APG-68 запустившего ракету истребителя работала в режиме «подсветка цели»: включилась в момент пуска и отключилась после того, как ракета уверенно захватила и поразила цель.
    Была ли у наших пилотов возможность спасти самолет?
    Нет. Шансы избежать поражения у экипажа Су-24М2 были равны нулю.
    Против ракеты AIM-9X с новой матричной инфракрасной головкой самонаведения, формирующей изображение цели в ИК-диапазоне и нечувствительной к тепловым ловушкам, у Су-24М2 нет систем противодействия. Его средства противодействия: БКО «Карпаты», со станцией предупреждения о радиолокационном облучении СПО-15С, теплопеленгатором ЛО-82 для обнаружения пусков ракет, станция постановки активных помех СПС-161, устройство выброса дипольных отражателей и ложных тепловых целей АПП-50 — не могут противостоять новой ракете AIM-9X.
    А если бы было сопровождение истребителей?
    Теперь оно будет. Конечно, трагедию смогла бы предотвратить пара Су-30СМ, имеющих на вооружение БКО «Хибины-У». Но никто не ждал удара в спину от союзника, тем более предупрежденного о деталях операции нашим партнером.
    Вы имеете в виду «американских партнеров», тех самых, которым принадлежат «Патриоты» и «Аваксы», а также спутники, возможно, задействованные в операции?
    Да, с большой степенью вероятности. Нет у Турции собственных возможностей для подобной кропотливой и очень точной работы. И не забывайте про второй E-3, приписанный к ВВС КСА. Весь сценарий достаточно скоротечен, счет шел на секунды.
    Неужели все прошло так уж гладко?

    Турки все же допустили ошибку, из-за которой провокация не совсем удалась. F-16CJ вышли на поражение с опозданием в 2 минуты, когда Су-24М2 уже покинул участок спорной 68-километровой территории на севере Сирии (на ее пролет ему потребовалось 1,5 минуты максимум). Команду «на поражение» F-16CJ не отменили, поэтому пуск ракет был произведен чуть дальше расчетной точки. Это подтверждает и то, что съемка падения Су-24М2 планировалась как с территории Сирии, так и с территории Турции, однако «сирийские» кадры более подробны. Похоже, что это спасло и нашего штурмана. Он смог уйти в «зеленку» и дождаться там поискового отряда.
    Беседовал эксперт Комиссии МГД по безопасности Дмитрий Ефимов
    http://regnum.ru/news/polit/2021108.html

    Im feeling charitable, so ive done it for him.

    Translation:


    Interviews military expert, constant author of the magazine "Arsenal of the Fatherland", a specialist in the use of the Military Space Forces Alexei Leonkova

    Alexei Petrovich, Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin called the unprovoked attack on a Turkish fighter Russian aircraft returns to base after the attack on the position of LIH, "stab in the back". Do you agree with this assessment?
    How can you argue with the president? But I think that he is also commonly understood meaning of this phrase, it meant an additional meaning. The analysis shows that the attack on the Su-24M2 Russian VKS was pre-planned by Turkey and its military partners. In this case, we are talking about the operation, "Backstab".
    Indeed, our plane is waiting in ambush Turkish interceptors on land located sabotage and reconnaissance groups, disguised as local Turkomans were previously imported crews CNN and FOX ...
    This is only a tactical software finals. The operation started much earlier. Throughout the period of the Russian VKS - Exploration of the NATO countries are not sitting idly by. The actions of our aviation was conducted by means of continuous monitoring of space, air and ground intelligence. In the attack he was involved in several complex reconnaissance and target - at least 3, and two F-16 with the latest missiles AIM-9X.
    How it all happened?
    US Air Force Boeing E-3 Sentry AWACS flew November 24 from an air base in Preveza in Greece. Second Air Force E-3A Saudi Arabia took off from an airbase Riyadh. Both aircraft carried out one common task - to determine the exact locations of aircraft videoconferencing Russia. They are also chosen "victim."
    American E-3A was to determine the mode of weapon control radar of the Su-24M2, to check whether it is able to search or seizure has already completed and accompanied by the goal, producing data for firing. It is known that can control the actions of AWACS aircraft in combat and transfer of avionics and aircraft information to the NCP of warfare.
    That is, to determine how helpless our plane?
    It turns out that, yes. As you know, the Su-24M2 was returning from a mission, and his NCP worked in the "navigation" in conjunction with GLONASS, he walked to the base and is not ready to take action. E-3 all the time passed details of the Su-24M2 pair patrol Turkish F-16CJ. This aircraft is specially produced for Turkey. Its feature is the presence of the computer, run the new radar AN / APG-68 and fulfill the role of co-pilot, navigator.
    But this information is not enough to enter the high-speed target. I used something else?
    Indeed, output precision fighter F-16CJ further provides ground-based US Patriot air defense, stationed in Turkey, or rather their multifunctional radar AN / MPQ-53. Patriot air defense system can work with the E-3 electronic reconnaissance satellites and MENTOR, it is possible that the satellite constellation was more SC "GEOSTAT."
    The flight path F-16CJ talking about precision output to the target by the method of triangulation: a pair of E-3A radar plus the Patriot air defense system plus RER MENTOR geostationary satellites, and possibly the SC "GEOSTAT."

    At the same time the E-3 was allowed to indicate where our aircraft in the air is determined by its train, speed, status of weapons control, radar air defense system Patriot conjunction with the satellite signals intelligence MENTOR provide telemetry Movement Su-24M2 to the ground - that is, gave an accurate forecast sector appearance of our the aircraft relative to the mountainous terrain.
    It turns out that Turkish fighter exactly know where our plane waiting in ambush?
    Of course. A pair of F-16CJ went to the area of ​​start-up and at a distance of 4-6 kilometers, almost at point blank range (!) Let the missile "air-to-air» AIM-9X Sidewinder in the rear hemisphere Russian bomber. This radar AN / APG-68 fighter jet launched a rocket operates on a "target illumination": Turn at start-up and shut off after the rocket firm grip and hit the target.
    I did our pilots the ability to save the plane?
    No. Chance to avoid defeat at the Su-24M2 crew were zero.
    Against missiles AIM-9X with a new matrix infrared seeker, the imaging target in the infrared range, and insensitive to heat trap, the Su-24M2 is no counter systems. His means of countering: BKO "Carpathians", the station warning radar illumination ACT-15C teplopelengator LO-82 to detect missile launches, the station posing jamming SPS-161, the device release chaff and false thermal purposes AMS-50 - can not confront new missile AIM-9X.
    And if there was support for the fighters?
    Now it will be. Of course, the tragedy could have been prevented pair of Su-30cm, have adopted BKO "Hibiny-In." But no one was waiting to strike back against an ally, especially warning about the details of the operation of our partner.
    You mean the "American partners", most of those who belong to the "Patriots" and "AWACS", as well as satellites, possibly involved in the operation?
    Yes, with a high degree of probability. No Turkey's own capacity for such meticulous and very precise work. And do not forget the second the E-3, assigned to the Air Force KSA. The whole scenario quite fleeting, the score went to second.
    Is everything went so smoothly?

    The Turks still make a mistake, because of the provocation which is not entirely successful. F-16CJ took to defeat late in 2 minutes, when the Su-24M2 has already left the station 68 km disputed territory in northern Syria (its flight it took 1.5 minutes maximum). Team "defeat» F-16CJ not canceled, so the missile launch was carried out a little further calculation point. This is confirmed by the fact that shooting the fall of the Su-24M2 was planned as from the territory of Syria, and with Turkey, but "Syrian" pictures in more detail. It seems that it saved and our navigator. He was able to go to the "Zelenka" and wait for the search party there.
    Interviewed expert of the Commission on Security MHD Dmitry Efimov
    http://regnum.ru/news/polit/2021108.html
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    fragmachine

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  fragmachine on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:43 pm

    I think that Russia should just boldly claim to NATO that any provocation coming from Turkey, anything that will endanger safe operation over Syrian airspace by RU/SAAF military, will be met with appropiate measures, including military intervention/bombing/shooting down planes. If Erdogan continues it's policy being enemy to people who fight ISIS, supporting ISIS, and will continue it's indiscriminate actions agains Syrian/Russian military, Russia WILL respond surely with all means avaible - and that is between Russia and Turkey to sort out. Basically, isolate Turkey from NATO. It surely happened with this SU-24 'incident' that NATO is now partitioned.

    Just bold out to western media that Turkey is not a NATO country that they can 'put it's money on'.

    Wait for a bait, make their F-16 cross Syrian airspace, even send them couple warnings and then unleash the S-400.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:46 pm

    Rodinazombie wrote:Iver never seen john use foul language until now.

    So when he writes FFS, id take notice :p

    Hopefully that will wake him up and actually translate his posts.
    Thanks.

    I'm 69 and when you get to my age you start to realise that being polite and diplomatic is often just a waste of time and you start saying it how it is. Its a bit like regressing to when you were very young, when you said what you actually thought, before the 'tribe rules' were drummed into you. You know, when the young child says loudly, often when it is quiet, "why does he smell so bad Mummy?".

    Life is just too short and the closer you get to the end, just like any event you enjoy during it, time goes by faster. Rules are there for a purpose, often to make things easier and quicker to act on and when you have less time it matters more.

    That's all. Grumpy Old Man over and out.


    Last edited by JohninMK on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:54 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Correct spelling mistake)
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:47 pm

    While I would like to belive what was said, this is not possible, since tresspassing the border, would have left a huge radar mark impossible to block. The missiles used were or weren't AIM9X, that's not important but the hit cannot have been bad calculation, just BVR result. The Sukhoi fell too deep into Syrian territory to have been targeted from such a short distance. This was a BVR shot with Turkish planes being indeed probably fed info though ELINT/AWACS and GC. There is no reason to get the F16s so close to the border and get a shot in the ass. And actually there's the proof the Turks laid an ambush.

    Vann7

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:49 pm

    Siempre_Leal wrote:Kurds and rebels fighting near Al-Malikiyah close to Azaz - Salameh border crossing, also allegedly Russian air strikes aiding the Kurds
    http://wikimapia.org/32572379/Malikia

    https://twitter.com/F1ea1337/status/669932293356691456

    https://www.facebook.com/LCCSy/posts/1266817813345352 (arabic)

    If true of VVS is aiding, this is a very smart move.

    2 hours ago
    @F1ea1337 @markito0171 PKK/YPG now officialy part of ASSAD/RUSSIA/IRANs coalition Shocked

    Omg.. how is turkey going to react now.. if this is true..it will be a major but legal provocation..because what Russia does is perfectly legal..since is bombing
    in Syria ISIS and ALqaeda friendly islamic extremsit groups .. but Erdopig will not like it . This could create an interesting event that if Turkey illegally start a war against Russia.. for bombing their ISIS sponsored terrorist and helping kurds to fight against them in SYRIA.. Russia could also give weapons to kurds inside Turkey.. to fight Erdogan and its army.. that will effectively create a civil war in Turkey..all the way to Ankara.. since erdogan will start a crackdown on all kurds that last i heard is like 30% of Turkey population.. really bad policies of mr Erdogan.
    really a Moron..and any Turkey idiot who support him too.. Any patriotic Turkey citizen will protest its Government and demand Erdogan to resign.. and repeat an Egypt revolution to get
    Erdogan out. for his support of terrorism and before he disband the nation for following americans and Israel policies.


    This could make the whole ISIS and Alqaeda campaign to collapse because Obama cannot allow Turkey to be disbanded..this means that Obama and Erdogan will request its Alqaeda and ISIS mercenaries to leave Syria and return to Turkey and help them fight the kurds attacking Erdogan army in Southern
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:54 pm

    Vann7:



    Kurdish Express is about to leave the gate. All aboard (Kornets, Strela's, Konkurs, Sani's bujrum). That moment when you realise you pissed off the worlds first arms exporter and the people who hate you are 30% of your country. Dowleti NovoKordestani.
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  kvs on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:00 pm

    Zivo wrote:Erdogan: We’ll continue shooting down planes violating our airspace

    https://www.rt.com/news/323548-jet-turkey-russia-relations/


    This little shit should shut his trap. His air force routinely violates Iraqi and Syrian air space. At the rate things are going his
    jets are going to be shot down over Syria and Iraq and there will be nothing he regime can do about it.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:01 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Zivo wrote:Erdogan: We’ll continue shooting down planes violating our airspace

    https://www.rt.com/news/323548-jet-turkey-russia-relations/


    This little shit should shut his trap.  His air force routinely violates Iraqi and Syrian air space.   At the rate things are going his
    jets are going to be shot down over Syria and Iraq and there will be nothing he regime can do about it.

    Iraqi Kurds might have enough and some AA systems might get lost. You know paradrops are tricky.
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  flamming_python on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:01 pm

    Rodinazombie wrote:Iver never seen john use foul language until now.

    So when he writes FFS, id take notice :p

    Hopefully that will wake him up and actually translate his posts.

    Don't talk to John in that russky tongue lol!
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    BKP

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  BKP on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:08 pm

    How reliable is this news of the PKK/YPG - ASSAD/RUSSIA/IRAN link up? That would be a very big deal, and obviously highly provocative if true. Doubt it would be announced, tho. Probably keep on on the d/l?
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Militarov on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:09 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Vann7:



    Kurdish Express is about to leave the gate. All aboard (Kornets, Strela's, Konkurs, Sani's bujrum). That moment when you realise you pissed off the worlds first arms exporter and the people who hate you are 30% of your country. Dowleti NovoKordestani.

    Wrong version


    fragmachine

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  fragmachine on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:13 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Zivo wrote:Erdogan: We’ll continue shooting down planes violating our airspace

    https://www.rt.com/news/323548-jet-turkey-russia-relations/


    This little shit should shut his trap.  His air force routinely violates Iraqi and Syrian air space.   At the rate things are going his
    jets are going to be shot down over Syria and Iraq and there will be nothing he regime can do about it.

    Personally, im waiting impatiently for a set when a nice round button of S-400 is pushed all way down and Turkish planes start falling off the sky. Did I said Turkish? Turkeys falling from the sky, Christmas is coming, it is hunt time!

    Rodinazombie

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Rodinazombie on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:14 pm


    fragmachine

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  fragmachine on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:19 pm

    Rodinazombie wrote:

    That is what I meant, isolate it from the world and NATO itself, make them do something stupid and cook Turkey on gas till it boils. Buena Appettite!
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    Odin of Ossetia

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Odin of Ossetia on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:45 pm

    Zivo wrote:Shoigu confirmed, the second pilot is back at their base.  cheers

    “The [rescue] operation is successfully over. The pilot has been delivered to our base. Safe and sound,” Shoigu said during a meeting of the Defense Committee, adding that the operation was performed by Russian and Syrian special forces.

    https://www.rt.com/news/323377-russian-pilot-saved-syria/



    A Russian military helicopter was destroyed, and a Russian naval infantryman killed - according to the Russian government - all that to rescue a single airman, and they call it as successful?


    And if Russia is allegedly fighting against the "Islamic State" then why was it attacking with these jets the ethnic Turkomans who actually fight against the "Islamic State" on the ground?
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    Rmf

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Rmf on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:50 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Zivo wrote:Erdogan: We’ll continue shooting down planes violating our airspace

    https://www.rt.com/news/323548-jet-turkey-russia-relations/


    This little shit should shut his trap.  His air force routinely violates Iraqi and Syrian air space.   At the rate things are going his
    jets are going to be shot down over Syria and Iraq and there will be nothing he regime can do about it.
    no this is goood. very good.
    turdogan plz shot down russian plane ,plz try it again god damn moth**** fuc****
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Militarov on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:50 pm

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    Zivo wrote:Shoigu confirmed, the second pilot is back at their base.  cheers

    “The [rescue] operation is successfully over. The pilot has been delivered to our base. Safe and sound,” Shoigu said during a meeting of the Defense Committee, adding that the operation was performed by Russian and Syrian special forces.

    https://www.rt.com/news/323377-russian-pilot-saved-syria/



    A Russian military helicopter was destroyed, and a Russian naval infantryman killed - according to the Russian government - all that to rescue a single airman, and they call it as successful?


    And if Russia is allegedly fighting against the "Islamic State" then why was it attacking with these jets the ethnic Turkomans who actually fight against the "Islamic State" on the ground?

    Infantryman < navigator, cruel but that is how military looks at it. When its about helicopter, its just a helicopter, US lost 8 last 2 months in regular flights out of combat zones.

    Coz they also fight aganist regular Syrian Army? Maybe...

    Rodinazombie

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Rodinazombie on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:54 pm

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    Zivo wrote:Shoigu confirmed, the second pilot is back at their base.  cheers

    “The [rescue] operation is successfully over. The pilot has been delivered to our base. Safe and sound,” Shoigu said during a meeting of the Defense Committee, adding that the operation was performed by Russian and Syrian special forces.

    https://www.rt.com/news/323377-russian-pilot-saved-syria/



    A Russian military helicopter was destroyed, and a Russian naval infantryman killed - according to the Russian government - all that to rescue a single airman, and they call it as successful?


    And if Russia is allegedly fighting against the "Islamic State" then why was it attacking with these jets the ethnic Turkomans who actually fight against the "Islamic State" on the ground?

    The aim of the mission was to rescue the navigator, he was rescued, therefore mission = success.

    Quite simple really.





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    Odin of Ossetia

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Odin of Ossetia on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:58 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    Zivo wrote:Shoigu confirmed, the second pilot is back at their base.  cheers

    “The [rescue] operation is successfully over. The pilot has been delivered to our base. Safe and sound,” Shoigu said during a meeting of the Defense Committee, adding that the operation was performed by Russian and Syrian special forces.

    https://www.rt.com/news/323377-russian-pilot-saved-syria/



    A Russian military helicopter was destroyed, and a Russian naval infantryman killed - according to the Russian government - all that to rescue a single airman, and they call it as successful?


    And if Russia is allegedly fighting against the "Islamic State" then why was it attacking with these jets the ethnic Turkomans who actually fight against the "Islamic State" on the ground?

    Infantryman < navigator, cruel but that is how military looks at it. When its about helicopter, its just a helicopter, US lost 8 last 2 months in regular flights out of combat zones.

    Coz they also fight aganist regular Syrian Army? Maybe...


    The naval infantry in Russia are considered as elite troops, perhaps not totally as elite as GRU Spietsnaz but still elite.

    If Russia is only there to fight the "Islamic State" then that is what it should do, but no fight against others who are fighting against the IS.

    There are now some allegations being made in the Western mass media that it is only the Western air forces that really fight agains the IS, while the Russians attack only the Free Syrian Army and its ethnic Turkoman allies.

    It is Russia that looks dishonest here.

    Rodinazombie

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Rodinazombie on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:59 pm

    Quite a long one, this.



    Putin: Turkey deliberately leading relations with Russia 'into a gridlock'


    Russian President Vladimir Putin has accused Turkey of intentionally bringing relations with Russia into a ‘gridlock’ following the incident with the downed Russian bomber in Syria.
    The Turkish government has made no steps towards clearing up the situation with Russia after the Tuesday incident at the Syrian-Turkish border. The country has neither offered any compensation nor expressed any apologies over the death of the Russian pilot, thus apparently deliberately dampening relations with Moscow, Putin stressed in his speech at the presentation of foreign ambassadors’ letters of credence in the Kremlin on Thursday.


    We have still not heard any comprehensible apologies from the Turkish political leaders or any offers to compensate for the damage caused or promises to punish the criminals for their crime,” Russian president said.

    “One gets the impression that the Turkish leaders are deliberately leading Russian-Turkish relations into a gridlock – and we are sorry to see this,” he added.


    Vladimir Putin also emphasized that Turkey’s air forces hitting the Russian plane contradicted “common sense and international law [as] the plane was shot down over Syrian territory” and once again called the incident “a stab in the back.”

    I have to say that we find absolutely inexplicable the treacherous stabs in our back dealt by those we thought to be our partners and allies in the anti-terrorist struggle,” he said referring to the downing of the Russian bomber by a Turkish fighter jet.


    At the same time, the Russian president expressed hope that a broad coalition could still be formed in order to counter the terrorist threat.

    “I expect a truly broad international anti-terrorist coalition to be formed that would act in a coordinated fashion, as a powerful force and would, in particular, support the actions of the Russian troops that are carrying out successful military operations against terrorist groups in Syria,” Putin said in his speech.

    Meanwhile, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said that his country would not apologize for downing the Russian bomber.

    “I think if there is a party that needs to apologize, it is not us,” he told CNN in an interview stressing that “those, who violated our airspace, are the ones who need to apologize” apparently referring to Russia.



    “Our pilots and our armed forces, they simply fulfilled their duties, which consisted of responding to ... violations of the rules of engagement. I think this is the essence,” Erdogan added emphasizing that Turkey acted in line with its sovereign right to counter the threats to its security.

    Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu also denied any possibility of an apology to Moscow during his visit to Nicosia, Cyprus.

    We don’t need to apologize on an occasion in which we are right,” he told journalists, although he claimed that Turkish authorities “said on the phone that [they] are sorry” referring to a telephone conversation with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Wednesday.
    The Turkish government has made no steps towards clearing up the situation with Russia after the Tuesday incident at the Syrian-Turkish border. The country has neither offered any compensation nor expressed any apologies over the death of the Russian pilot, thus apparently deliberately dampening relations with Moscow, Putin stressed in his speech at the presentation of foreign ambassadors’ letters of credence in the Kremlin on Thursday.


    “We have still not heard any comprehensible apologies from the Turkish political leaders or any offers to compensate for the damage caused or promises to punish the criminals for their crime,” Russian president said.

    “One gets the impression that the Turkish leaders are deliberately leading Russian-Turkish relations into a gridlock – and we are sorry to see this,” he added.


    Vladimir Putin also emphasized that Turkey’s air forces hitting the Russian plane contradicted “common sense and international law [as] the plane was shot down over Syrian territory” and once again called the incident “a stab in the back.”

    “I have to say that we find absolutely inexplicable the treacherous stabs in our back dealt by those we thought to be our partners and allies in the anti-terrorist struggle,” he said referring to the downing of the Russian bomber by a Turkish fighter jet.


    At the same time, the Russian president expressed hope that a broad coalition could still be formed in order to counter the terrorist threat.

    “I expect a truly broad international anti-terrorist coalition to be formed that would act in a coordinated fashion, as a powerful force and would, in particular, support the actions of the Russian troops that are carrying out successful military operations against terrorist groups in Syria,” Putin said in his speech.

    Meanwhile, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said that his country would not apologize for downing the Russian bomber.

    “I think if there is a party that needs to apologize, it is not us,” he told CNN in an interview stressing that “those, who violated our airspace, are the ones who need to apologize” apparently referring to Russia.


    “Our pilots and our armed forces, they simply fulfilled their duties, which consisted of responding to ... violations of the rules of engagement. I think this is the essence,” Erdogan added emphasizing that Turkey acted in line with its sovereign right to counter the threats to its security.

    Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu also denied any possibility of an apology to Moscow during his visit to Nicosia, Cyprus.

    “We don’t need to apologize on an occasion in which we are right,” he told journalists, although he claimed that Turkish authorities “said on the phone that [they] are sorry” referring to a telephone conversation with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Wednesday.

    Earlier on Thursday, Turkey’s president said his country would continue to open fire on foreign planes violating its airspace.

    “If another violation of our aerial border happens, we can respond in the same way,” he said. “The plane was shot down within the rules of engagement announced earlier.”



    In the meantime, Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, Maria Zakharova, accused Turkey of protecting the “armed thugs” that killed the Russian pilot during a news briefing.

    “These people Ankara seeks to protect at every possible way including illegal means have nothing to do with civilians. They are armed thugs that shot down Russian pilot and then desecrated his body,” Zakharova said.

    READ MORE: Hell has special place for murderers of downed pilots

    The ministry’s spokeswoman also criticized NATO for not offering its condolences to Russia over the death of the pilot as well as for its attempts to put the blame for the incident on Russia and called it a “shame.”

    She added that NATO apparently “pardoned” Turkey’s actions despite them threatening international security.

    Zakharova also stressed that Turkey “clearly” is a terrorist accomplice as it downed a plane conducting an anti-terrorist combat mission.


    “If someone hit those conducting an operation against terrorists, how can the actions of this side be described otherwise than as actions of terrorist accomplices? – Clearly, there is no other option here,” she said during the briefing.

    On Wednesday, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev also called the actions of Turkey “de facto protection of Islamic State.”

    On Tuesday, a Turkish F-16 fighter jet downed a Russian bomber conducting air strikes against terrorists in Syria. Ankara claims that the Russian Su-24M combat aircraft crossed the border and remained in Turkish airspace for 17 seconds having being previously warned not to approach 10 times.

    Russia denies any violations. It also rejects Turkey’s claims that its military repeatedly warned the pilots of the Russian jet before attacking it.


    https://www.rt.com/news/323593-turkey-russia-relations-gridlock/

    Rodinazombie

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Rodinazombie on Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:01 am

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    Zivo wrote:Shoigu confirmed, the second pilot is back at their base.  cheers

    “The [rescue] operation is successfully over. The pilot has been delivered to our base. Safe and sound,” Shoigu said during a meeting of the Defense Committee, adding that the operation was performed by Russian and Syrian special forces.

    https://www.rt.com/news/323377-russian-pilot-saved-syria/



    A Russian military helicopter was destroyed, and a Russian naval infantryman killed - according to the Russian government - all that to rescue a single airman, and they call it as successful?


    And if Russia is allegedly fighting against the "Islamic State" then why was it attacking with these jets the ethnic Turkomans who actually fight against the "Islamic State" on the ground?

    Infantryman < navigator, cruel but that is how military looks at it. When its about helicopter, its just a helicopter, US lost 8 last 2 months in regular flights out of combat zones.

    Coz they also fight aganist regular Syrian Army? Maybe...


    The naval infantry in Russia are considered as elite troops, perhaps not totally as elite as GRU Spietsnaz but still elite.

    If Russia is only there to fight the "Islamic State" then that is what it should do, but no fight against others who are fighting against the IS.

    There are now some allegations being made in the Western mass media that it is only the Western air forces that really fight agains the IS, while the Russians attack only the Free Syrian Army and its ethnic Turkoman allies.

    It is Russia that looks dishonest here.

    Maybe you should read these threads from the beginning and educate yourself instead of reading western media.



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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:05 am

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    Zivo wrote:Shoigu confirmed, the second pilot is back at their base.  cheers

    “The [rescue] operation is successfully over. The pilot has been delivered to our base. Safe and sound,” Shoigu said during a meeting of the Defense Committee, adding that the operation was performed by Russian and Syrian special forces.

    https://www.rt.com/news/323377-russian-pilot-saved-syria/



    A Russian military helicopter was destroyed, and a Russian naval infantryman killed - according to the Russian government - all that to rescue a single airman, and they call it as successful?


    And if Russia is allegedly fighting against the "Islamic State" then why was it attacking with these jets the ethnic Turkomans who actually fight against the "Islamic State" on the ground?

    Infantryman < navigator, cruel but that is how military looks at it. When its about helicopter, its just a helicopter, US lost 8 last 2 months in regular flights out of combat zones.

    Coz they also fight aganist regular Syrian Army? Maybe...


    The naval infantry in Russia are considered as elite troops, perhaps not totally as elite as GRU Spietsnaz but still elite.

    If Russia is only there to fight the "Islamic State" then that is what it should do, but no fight against others who are fighting against the IS.

    There are now some allegations being made in the Western mass media that it is only the Western air forces that really fight agains the IS, while the Russians attack only the Free Syrian Army and its ethnic Turkoman allies.

    It is Russia that looks dishonest here.
    Sorry but you seem to be deluded.

    At what point did Russia say that it was in Syria to fight only the Islamic State?

    Russia is currently doing exactly what it said it would do, assist the Government of Syria.
    avatar
    Odin of Ossetia

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  Odin of Ossetia on Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:17 am

    Rodinazombie wrote:
    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    Zivo wrote:Shoigu confirmed, the second pilot is back at their base.  cheers

    “The [rescue] operation is successfully over. The pilot has been delivered to our base. Safe and sound,” Shoigu said during a meeting of the Defense Committee, adding that the operation was performed by Russian and Syrian special forces.

    https://www.rt.com/news/323377-russian-pilot-saved-syria/



    A Russian military helicopter was destroyed, and a Russian naval infantryman killed - according to the Russian government - all that to rescue a single airman, and they call it as successful?


    And if Russia is allegedly fighting against the "Islamic State" then why was it attacking with these jets the ethnic Turkomans who actually fight against the "Islamic State" on the ground?

    Infantryman < navigator, cruel but that is how military looks at it. When its about helicopter, its just a helicopter, US lost 8 last 2 months in regular flights out of combat zones.

    Coz they also fight aganist regular Syrian Army? Maybe...


    The naval infantry in Russia are considered as elite troops, perhaps not totally as elite as GRU Spietsnaz but still elite.

    If Russia is only there to fight the "Islamic State" then that is what it should do, but no fight against others who are fighting against the IS.

    There are now some allegations being made in the Western mass media that it is only the Western air forces that really fight agains the IS, while the Russians attack only the Free Syrian Army and its ethnic Turkoman allies.

    It is Russia that looks dishonest here.

    Maybe you should read these threads from the beginning and educate yourself instead of reading western media.





    I have seen coverage of events in Poland by the Russia Today, and have to say that the RT has a very poor grasp on what is going on in this country.

    I think the RT is more informative about what is going on in the U.S.A., but for Poland their coverage is of very poor quality.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

    Post  KiloGolf on Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:20 am

    ahrar al derka derka claims to have shelled Hmeimim air base...
    I wonder if it's true..


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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

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