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    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

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    Walther von Oldenburg

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 00:05

    ^^' if there was an American fighting for Ukraine and Spaniards fighting for Novorussia, then there should be no problem in finding several hundred volunteers from a country like Serbia... Few hundreds guys from Novorussia would go too.

    Would you imagine what a deja vu it would be for a 50 years old (Novo)Russian veteran?
    1980s - fightign jihadists in Afghanistan, 1990s - fighting jihadists in Chechnya, 2016 - fighting jihadists in Syria...
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    Monarchist

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  Monarchist on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 00:10

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:^^' if there was an American fighting for Ukraine and Spaniards fighting for Novorussia, then there should be no problem in finding several hundred volunteers from a country like Serbia... Few hundreds guys from Novorussia would go too.

    Would you imagine what a deja vu it would be for a 50 years old (Novo)Russian veteran?
    1980s - fightign jihadists in Afghanistan, 1990s - fighting jihadists in Chechnya, 2016 - fighting jihadists in Syria...
    Serbs fighting in Novorussia is because russians are slavic and orthodox, and because most serbs love russians and Russia more than most russians. No serbs would volunteer to fight for Assad and Syria, only mercenaries.
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    NationalRus

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  NationalRus on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 00:34

    Siempre_Leal wrote:can anybody ID this AK?



    Source

    looks like a chinese AKS 99%
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  Militarov on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 00:38

    Siempre_Leal wrote:can anybody ID this AK?



    Source

    Gun itself seems to be Chinese Type 56, however stock is not "standard", its "Galilised" as i would say, could have been locally made.

    ultron

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  ultron on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 01:09

    Why don't Russia give AK-74 to SAA frontline soldiers? AK-74 would give SAA a significant advantage over insurgents who only have AK-47.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  Militarov on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 01:16



    OTR-21 Tochka from a warship? Iiii dont think so. However photo seems to be fresh.




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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  Militarov on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 01:21

    ultron wrote:Why don't Russia give AK-74 to SAA frontline soldiers? AK-74 would give SAA a significant advantage over insurgents who only have AK-47.

    Significant advantage how exacly? What gamechanging performance AK74 offers over AKM/M70/Type 56, even if it did, rifle does not win the war, airstrikes and artillery do. If you havent noticed most of the fights here are in urban areas, where M43/M67 7,62x39mm shines.

    Also now seriously, stop calling it an AK47, its just an AK, number 47 was refering only to prototype. Even worse than that they barely use any original AKs, but AKM/Type 56 and Yugo M70. Original AK you will very, very rarely see in hands of SAA, NDF member is however more likely to be spotted using it.

    ultron

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  ultron on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 01:31

    Militarov wrote:
    ultron wrote:Why don't Russia give AK-74 to SAA frontline soldiers? AK-74 would give SAA a significant advantage over insurgents who only have AK-47.

    Significant advantage how exacly? What gamechanging performance AK74 offers over AKM/M70/Type 56, even if it did, rifle does not win the war, airstrikes and artillery do. If you havent noticed most of the fights here are in urban areas, where M43/M67 7,62x39mm shines.

    Also now seriously, stop calling it an AK47, its just an AK, number 47 was refering only to prototype. Even worse than that they barely use any original AKs, but AKM/Type 56 and Yugo M70. Original AK you will very, very rarely see in hands of SAA, NDF member is however more likely to be spotted using it.

    AK-74 has much higher muzzle velocity, much less recoil, much better auto fire control, much deadlier bullets. AK-74 is basically a Russian M16. AK-47 is way obsolete.

    ultron

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  ultron on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 01:32

    Russian aid to Syria is good, but not good enough. If Russia is serious about beating takfiris, Russia has to deploy bombers like Tu-95 / 160 / 22 and cruise missiles.
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    max steel

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  max steel on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 01:36

    ultron wrote:Russian aid to Syria is good, but not good enough. If Russia is serious about beating takfiris, Russia has to deploy bombers like Tu-95 / 160 / 22 and cruise missiles.

    I just noticed you haven't introduced yourself yet.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  Militarov on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 01:41

    ultron wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    ultron wrote:Why don't Russia give AK-74 to SAA frontline soldiers? AK-74 would give SAA a significant advantage over insurgents who only have AK-47.

    Significant advantage how exacly? What gamechanging performance AK74 offers over AKM/M70/Type 56, even if it did, rifle does not win the war, airstrikes and artillery do. If you havent noticed most of the fights here are in urban areas, where M43/M67 7,62x39mm shines.

    Also now seriously, stop calling it an AK47, its just an AK, number 47 was refering only to prototype. Even worse than that they barely use any original AKs, but AKM/Type 56 and Yugo M70. Original AK you will very, very rarely see in hands of SAA, NDF member is however more likely to be spotted using it.

    AK-74 has much higher muzzle velocity, much less recoil, much better auto fire control, much deadlier bullets. AK-74 is basically a Russian M16. AK-47 is way obsolete.

    How, exacly higher velocity helps you on 100-150m ranges in Syria in a city? It does not, however far heavier 7,62 is simply unmatched in city, far better penetrating power aganist brick/wooden covers and far better effect on target on medium ranges. Which means: No need to change fkn guns.

    "Much less recoil, much better auto fire control" - Yeah, coz SAA has so many expert marksmen, have you even seen them fight? Also, whoever cant control AKM in short bursts good enough to place accurate shots on 200m shouldnt be in the army in first place.

    "Much deadlier bullets" - Highly questionable statement, this depends on many things explanation would require math and its 2 AM, so ill skip today.

    No offense but you get right to talk about firearms after you actually use one for prolonged period of time.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  Militarov on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 01:43

    "Russia has helped Iran deliver weapons into Syria twice a day over the past 10 days, western intelligence sources tell Fox News. Those sources say Russian cargo planes transported the weapons. The planes were spotted earlier this month on the tarmac at the Russian air base in Latakia, Syria's primary port city. The flights are not registered, and are in breach of two United Nations Security Council resolutions which impose an arms embargo on Iran. Fox News is told the increased Russian transport of Iranian weapons is being coordinated by Qassem Soulimeini, the head of the Iranian Al-Quds force, as well as President Vladimir Putin and Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu. An Iranian civilian airline, Mahan Air, is flying military personnel into Syria several times each day from Tehran to Latakia.


    Tehran's support has been crucial to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's survival. Besides significant financial aid to Assad, Iran has acknowledged that its Revolutionary Guard officers are on the ground in Syria in an advisory role. There have been multiple Iranian officers and soldiers killed in fighting in Syria, though Tehran denies the presence of actual combat troops in the country."


    Source: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/28/exclusive-russia-flying-iranian-weapons-shipments-into-syria-sources-say/

    ultron

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  ultron on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 02:02

    Militarov wrote:"Much deadlier bullets" - Highly questionable statement, this depends on many things explanation would require math and its 2 AM, so ill skip today.

    No offense but you get right to talk about firearms after you actually use one for prolonged period of time.

    7N6 and its derivatives tumble a lot more than 7.62 39. It's almost impossible to survive such a round. We need insurgents dead, not having them get treatment in hospitals in Turkey.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  Militarov on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 02:16

    ultron wrote:
    Militarov wrote:"Much deadlier bullets" - Highly questionable statement, this depends on many things explanation would require math and its 2 AM, so ill skip today.

    No offense but you get right to talk about firearms after you actually use one for prolonged period of time.

    7N6 and its derivatives tumble a lot more than 7.62 39. It's almost impossible to survive such a round. We need insurgents dead, not having them get treatment in hospitals in Turkey.

    "The result of our preset test indicate that the AK-74 bullet acts in the manner expected of a full-metal-cased military ammunition - it does not deform or fragment when striking soft tissues". Most organs and tissue were too flexible to be severely damaged by the temporary cavity effect caused by yaw and cavitation of a projectile. With the 5.45 mm bullet, tumbling produced a temporary cavity twice, at depths of 100 mm (3.9 in) and 350 mm (13.8 in). This is similar to (but more rapid than) modern 7.62×39mm ammunition and to (non-fragmenting) 5.56 mm ammunition."

    So no, modern 7,62x39mm is capable of handling anything that SAA needs, main reason for ammunition change during Cold War was not its great performance but reduced weight of ammunition so soldier can carry more of it and reduce production costs. Trust me, wherever 7N6 hits you and kills you, M67 will do the same. Also, 80% of deaths caused by firearms are not caused by actual wound, but rather lose of blood via that wound, if he he hit, he will die, its not like doctors grow on trees for militants.
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    max steel

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  max steel on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 02:20

    Militarov wrote:"Russia has helped Iran deliver weapons into Syria twice a day over the past 10 days, western intelligence sources tell Fox News. Those sources say Russian cargo planes transported the weapons. The planes were spotted earlier this month on the tarmac at the Russian air base in Latakia, Syria's primary port city. The flights are not registered, and are in breach of two United Nations Security Council resolutions which impose an arms embargo on Iran. Fox News is told the increased Russian transport of Iranian weapons is being coordinated by Qassem Soulimeini, the head of the Iranian Al-Quds force, as well as President Vladimir Putin and Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu. An Iranian civilian airline, Mahan Air, is flying military personnel into Syria several times each day from Tehran to Latakia.


    Tehran's support has been crucial to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's survival. Besides significant financial aid to Assad, Iran has acknowledged that its Revolutionary Guard officers are on the ground in Syria in an advisory role. There have been multiple Iranian officers and soldiers killed in fighting in Syria, though Tehran denies the presence of actual combat troops in the country."





    Source: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/28/exclusive-russia-flying-iranian-weapons-shipments-into-syria-sources-say/



    Oh fox! Dont talk aboit Rules because when it comes to US they violate it . Sarting from Iraq invasion , Libya Invasion. By those same principles you and your shoeboys are not even supposed to be there.

    cracker

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  cracker on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 05:00

    Siempre_Leal wrote:can anybody ID this AK?




    56-2 with DIY scope mount. 56-2 is the most common type exported since 20 years... The stock is stereotypical. Anyone with a bit of interest in guns knows this model...

    not the worst looking AK, but certainly one of the shittiest. In good hands it will still kill anyone inside 200m with one shot.

    Example of a good brave moderate cannibal cut-throat holding it as it should: the monkey way.


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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  cracker on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 05:02

    anyone can give me the number of total sorties and strikes since 30 sept up to 28 oct?
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  Militarov on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 13:24

    cracker wrote:


    It is Type 56, but its not original bakelite stock from v2.

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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 15:47

    Militarov wrote:
    cracker wrote:


    It is Type 56, but its not original bakelite stock from v2.


    Actually it is the original bayonet stock. It's just the Plastic/Bakelite (depending when it was made) that has been taken out as it can be irritating or hurt you if they get loose. The funny part is that this has to be an 80's type 56 since it most probably has the Soviet Style universal optical mount.

    http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif

    You can see fix points at 1:19 in the reel.

    http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif

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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  Militarov on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 16:26

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    cracker wrote:


    It is Type 56, but its not original bakelite stock from v2.


    Actually it is the original bayonet stock. It's just the Plastic/Bakelite (depending when it was made) that has been taken out as it can be irritating or hurt you if they get loose. The funny part is that this has to be an 80's type 56 since it most probably has the Soviet Style universal optical mount.

    http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif

    You can see fix points at 1:19 in the reel.

    http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif


    I have never seen it this way, weird. I could swear its "Galilised Type 56.



    But ya i guess its possible they just chopped out that bakalite thing, i would find it annoying myself too...

    ult

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  ult on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 16:27

    Su-30SM with ofabs. Very Happy



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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 16:59

    Militarov wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    cracker wrote:


    It is Type 56, but its not original bakelite stock from v2.


    Actually it is the original bayonet stock. It's just the Plastic/Bakelite (depending when it was made) that has been taken out as it can be irritating or hurt you if they get loose. The funny part is that this has to be an 80's type 56 since it most probably has the Soviet Style universal optical mount.

    http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif

    You can see fix points at 1:19 in the reel.

    http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif


    I have never seen it this way, weird. I could swear its "Galilised Type 56.



    But ya i guess its possible they just chopped out that bakalite thing, i would find it annoying myself too...

    You can see the open skeleton stock is rounded like a wire with a sheet of metal pressed around the butt and fixed by two rivets, while the bayonet stock is a sheet of metal pressed and shaped. There is also a strip that takes the front screw of the bayonet stock, while the skeleton stock has only a welded support to stiffen it.

    BTW Albania produced its own variant Type 56/2 at Poliçan, called Automatiku 78-3 with...no bayonet handle because...we couldn't afford the material. Good times. thumbsup
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  Militarov on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 17:14



    You can see the open skeleton stock is rounded like a wire with a sheet of metal pressed around the butt and fixed by two rivets, while the bayonet stock is a sheet of metal pressed and shaped. There is also a strip that takes the front screw of the bayonet stock, while the skeleton stock has only a welded support to stiffen it.

    BTW Albania produced its own variant Type 56/2 at Poliçan, called Automatiku 78-3 with...no bayonet handle because...we couldn't afford the material. Good times. thumbsup  

    Ye i am aware of differences, just thought it might be some locally made variant, stock is not really rocket science, also you never know with Chinese, i bought two flashlights that are supposed to be same, they had at least 10 different parts.

    I was holding ASH-82 some years ago, taken from "tomato sellers" in Preševo near local market after their tractor flipped over, police stopped and called towing service and medics, and saw rifle laying partially covered with tomatoes. I think its destroyed by now together with rest of the weapons of such origin.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 17:31

    Militarov wrote:


    You can see the open skeleton stock is rounded like a wire with a sheet of metal pressed around the butt and fixed by two rivets, while the bayonet stock is a sheet of metal pressed and shaped. There is also a strip that takes the front screw of the bayonet stock, while the skeleton stock has only a welded support to stiffen it.

    BTW Albania produced its own variant Type 56/2 at Poliçan, called Automatiku 78-3 with...no bayonet handle because...we couldn't afford the material. Good times. thumbsup  

    Ye i am aware of differences, just thought it might be some locally made variant, stock is not really rocket science, also you never know with Chinese, i bought two flashlights that are supposed to be same, they had at least 10 different parts.

    I was holding ASH-82 some years ago, taken from "tomato sellers" in Preševo near local market after their tractor flipped over, police stopped and called towing service and medics, and saw rifle laying partially covered with tomatoes. I think its destroyed by now together with rest of the weapons of such origin.

    Typical talk back in the day when they retired the AKM's from conscripts and replaced them with Vietnam surplus Type 56's.

    Kinez është?
    Jo është mut.
    Epo kinez qënka.

    Is it Chinese?
    Nope, it's shit.
    Well Chinese it is.

    Good times. I failed my first marksman certification, put only 3 rounds out of 20 on the 125 m target. Which was as good as any in my company. Then the sergent (toger) can't belive his eyes. He grabs the old mausers from Yugoslavia, and hands them over. Whole company hits at least 7/10 with those. Sights were completey unreliable, barrels were loose worn or badly cleaned. Then during system termination, a day my youngest brother shows me a m70 he had bought from Macedonia along with a couple of Poliçan models (1992 best year of my life  clown ). We spent half a day in the mountain just shooting. i think I have never seen such a performance difference between to supposedly similar systems. Night and day. Like five hours after we had started shooting, a dozen of herders come by all riled up screaming we're scaring the goats and the sheep, all armed like rambos with RPD's and what not. I shed tears twice about those years. Once because it became a tragedy, twice because life somehow was happier.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #4

    Post  Militarov on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 17:42

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Militarov wrote:


    You can see the open skeleton stock is rounded like a wire with a sheet of metal pressed around the butt and fixed by two rivets, while the bayonet stock is a sheet of metal pressed and shaped. There is also a strip that takes the front screw of the bayonet stock, while the skeleton stock has only a welded support to stiffen it.

    BTW Albania produced its own variant Type 56/2 at Poliçan, called Automatiku 78-3 with...no bayonet handle because...we couldn't afford the material. Good times. thumbsup  

    Ye i am aware of differences, just thought it might be some locally made variant, stock is not really rocket science, also you never know with Chinese, i bought two flashlights that are supposed to be same, they had at least 10 different parts.

    I was holding ASH-82 some years ago, taken from "tomato sellers" in Preševo near local market after their tractor flipped over, police stopped and called towing service and medics, and saw rifle laying partially covered with tomatoes. I think its destroyed by now together with rest of the weapons of such origin.

    Typical talk back in the day when they retired the AKM's from conscripts and replaced them with Vietnam surplus Type 56's.

    Kinez është?
    Jo është mut.
    Epo kinez qënka.

    Is it Chinese?
    Nope, it's shit.
    Well Chinese it is.

    Good times. I failed my first marksman certification, put only 3 rounds out of 20 on the 125 m target. Which was as good as any in my company. Then the sergent (toger) can't belive his eyes. He grabs the old mausers from Yugoslavia, and hands them over. Whole company hits at least 7/10 with those. Sights were completey unreliable, barrels were loose worn or badly cleaned. Then during system termination, a day my youngest brother shows me a m70 he had bought from Macedonia along with a couple of Poliçan models (1992 best year of my life  clown ). We spent half a day in the mountain just shooting. i think I have never seen such a performance difference between to supposedly similar systems. Night and day. Like five hours after we had started shooting, a dozen of herders come by all riled up screaming we're scaring the goats and the sheep, all armed like rambos with RPD's and what not. I shed tears twice about those years. Once because it became a tragedy, twice because life somehow was happier.

    M70 as long as you take care for rust is one hell of a weapon. I served with very short version of it dubbed M92 as i wasnt frontline personel, but whole actual infantry training i had with M70AB2, some had luck getting 70s production of M70 which was already quite used so follding stocks were abit "woobly", however guns itself were working like day 1.

    Once we were clearing some army depots from captured and decomissioned weapons that were to be scrapped, i was taking 1 piece of each "unique" to be checked by guy from Military museum if there is some piece they do not have and i remember finding StG44, it ended up being melted Smile

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