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    Russian Navy: Status & News #4

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    xeno

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    Post  xeno on Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:37 am

    Judging by the photo of construction in progress, the new two 12418 will not have Pantsir. Poor ships.... MOD just do the shipyard a favor to get rid of the existing hulls.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:37 am

    Regarding the assertion that Russia would not sink a single carrier... I would reply that the US Navy has never stopped a single Granit missile let alone Onyx... which are both in service in the Russian military.

    Before the Falklands war the British were confident their Sea Dart and Sea Wolf SAMs would keep their ships safe from enemy missile attack... yet the mediocre Exocet penetrated their defences and sunk several of their ships... I say mediocre because they had that missile in their own inventory and should have known its performance capabilities and how to defend against it...

    When a US AEGIS class cruiser shot down an unarmed civilian airbus in Iranian airspace from Iranian waters there was a fault in the system that delayed the launch of the Standard SAM by 90 seconds... that was one and a half minutes where they were vulnerable to attack and could not respond... if that had been a real attack they would have been in the shit... and it is the AEGIS cruisers that defend the carriers...

    Judging by the photo of construction in progress, the new two 12418 will not have Pantsir. Poor ships.... MOD just do the shipyard a favor to get rid of the existing hulls.

    Two 30mm gatlings is plenty with modern radar and fire control systems to direct them... if the threat is too great for it to defend itself it will likely not be operating alone anyway...
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    Post  Isos on Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:56 am


    Two 30mm gatlings is plenty with modern radar and fire control systems to direct them... if the threat is too great for it to defend itself it will likely not be operating alone anyway

    It is a ship packing huge amount of cheap missile for its size supposed to go with bigger ship to launch massive attack in closed zones like black sea.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:04 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:This is how the Pr. 12418M will look like when they are completed.
    The rear guns are the newer AK-630M modernized and stealthier version with a lower profile.
    The gun on front is the newer 76mm mount (just like the Karakurt and V. Bykov classes).

    Then July's  Izvestia was wrong


    https://iz.ru/756914/nikolai-surkov-aleksei-ramm/molnii-vozvrashchaiutsia-v-stroi

    Until early 2019, the fleet will receive two modernized large missile boats (corvette) of the legendary Soviet project 1241 Molniya. They were originally intended for a foreign customer, but the contract was canceled, and the domestic Navy became interested in ready-made buildings. In the process of completing the "Lightning" will equip with modern means of navigation and communication, the latest weapons. The architecture of the ship will change, the conditions for the crew will improve. Boats will receive X-35U anti-ship missiles and Pantsir-M sea-based anti-ship missiles.


    According to experts, the updated "Lightning" will become a formidable fighting machine, which in this case will be less vulnerable to aviation and more comfortable for crews.
    [/quote]




    GarryB wrote:
    Two 30mm gatlings is plenty with modern radar and fire control systems to direct them... if the threat is too great for it to defend itself it will likely not be operating alone anyway...

    unless drone like Riper/Predator hovers on 5kms with couple of Hellfire missiles. Surely small ships alwasy have cover unless they dont.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:57 pm

    Operation Sea Shield seen as a Russian power projection
    http://www.atimes.com/article/operation-sea-shield-seen-as-a-russian-power-projection/?utm_source=The+Daily+Report&utm_campaign=dc02e29a5d-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_08_30_12_33&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1f8bca137f-dc02e29a5d-31607385

    It also demonstrates her commitment to defend Syria & shows new ships to potential buyers.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:04 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Operation Sea Shield seen as a Russian power projection
    http://www.atimes.com/article/operation-sea-shield-seen-as-a-russian-power-projection/?utm_source=The+Daily+Report&utm_campaign=dc02e29a5d-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_08_30_12_33&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1f8bca137f-dc02e29a5d-31607385

    It also demonstrates her commitment to defend Syria & shows new ships to potential buyers.



    There is no way the Russian naval contingent could prevent a US missile strike against Syria from reaching its target,” he said. “Nor could it have a crucial impact on the course of military operations in Idlib.” Instead, Frolov suggested that the Russian maneuvers along Syrian shores represent a PR move by the Kremlin.

    really nothing? what tghis dude was smokin? I need same stuff for the weekend
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:00 pm

    The reason I didn't quote that is because he's only partially right.
    Some targets may be hit, & the VMF will play a supporting role in operations in Idlib. It's the last rebel held enclave where many on both sides will be taken out of the gene pool soon.
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    Post  Hole on Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:10 pm

    Around 60 cruise missiles and more than 350 sea-to-air missiles couldn´t prevent a strike? This guy must be a real expert. Who pays him? NATO?
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:28 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:The reason I didn't quote that is because he's only partially right.
    Some targets may be hit, & the VMF will play a supporting role in operations in Idlib. It's the last rebel held enclave where many on both sides will be taken out of the gene pool soon.

    first of all it's for deterrence. If Russian ship get hit will be response to carrier. So guess why Popmeo asked Lavrov for meeting? CMs flying without entering Turkey or Israel can decimated, but not all destroyed. There is more on land

    This "wall " configuration trained in Caspian you think was what for?






    Hole wrote:Around 60 cruise missiles and more than 350 sea-to-air missiles couldn´t prevent a strike? This guy must be a real expert. Who pays him? NATO?

    But Kinzhal (i.e. navalized Tor) is short range. Shtil-1 and S-300Fort are here the" long arm" . 64Forts + 48 Shtils + (64 S-400 + S-300)+ PAntirs/Tors/S-200/S-125/Osas land based Smile
    Anyway we dont know anything whether there are subs with tomahawks there. Each is like 156 missiles.


    Last edited by GunshipDemocracy on Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:33 pm

    Let's wait & see how it plays out!
    It's all about oil & Israel:
    https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2472991.html
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:22 am

    Hole wrote:Around 60 cruise missiles and more than 350 sea-to-air missiles couldn´t prevent a strike? This guy must be a real expert. Who pays him? NATO?

    You all fail to understand the point, if Russia is willing to escalate things to that point with the US they could do something, but Russia isn't about to cross that line with the states over Assad.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:33 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:

    You all fail to understand the point, if Russia is willing to escalate things to that point with the US they could do something, but Russia isn't about to cross that line with the states over Assad.

    it's not over Assad. IT is about Russia. Last time Gerasimov said about shooting down missile carriers in case of danger for Russian staff.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:42 am


    Hold your​ horses everyone

    Those missiles are for Idlib

    Let's not go full whatever that last USA ops was again
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:44 am

    The Ministry of Defense told details about the exercises in the Mediterranean Sea


    MOSCOW, August 30 (Itar-Tass) - RIA Novosti. In the exercises of the Navy and VKS in the Mediterranean Sea will be attended by more than 25 ships and ships, led by the missile cruiser Marshal Ustinov and 30 aircraft, including Tu-160, the Russian Defense Ministry said.

    "As part of the group, it is planned to deploy more than 25 ships and support vessels, led by the Marshal Ustinov missile cruiser." In the international airspace, training tasks will be fulfilled by about 30 aircraft, including strategic Tu-160 missile carriers, Tu-142MK anti-submarine aircraft and Il- 38 fighters, Su-33 fighters and Su-30SM aircraft of naval aviation, "the report said.

    It is noted that, according to the plan of the exercise in the Mediterranean, the group will work out a set of tasks for anti-aircraft and anti-subversive and sabotage defense, as well as mine protection.


    РИА Новости https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20180830/1527496284.html

    its serious now.
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:57 am

    If the seppos choose to deploy SSGN Ohios in the Med, the Russians should harass them with 24-7 ASW operations. Let them know the RuN could push the button at any time and consign them to the seabed for duty as a new reef....
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:00 am

    Even worse, Us wants really big war Sad

    The Ministry of Foreign Affairs commented on possible military actions in the Persian Gulf


    "It is even frightening to assume that this can be realized." We proceed from the premise that there is an international legal framework and specialized international institutions for resolving even the most acute issues, "she said, responding to a question about Russia's position on possible military operations in the Persian the Gulf and the admissibility of the war between Saudi Arabia and Iran

    РИА Новости https://ria.ru/world/20180830/1527491978.html
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    Post  LMFS on Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:29 am

    Guys I am telling you, this time it looks serious. What the Borg does not get one way, it gets it another. See this:

    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/israeli-minister-says-iran-syria-deal-crosses-red-line-assad-to-bear-the-consquences/

    Probably a concerted effort with CMs from the FUKUS (they can really launch many, many more than in last "rehearsals") to activate Syrian ADs so that Israel can hunt them down. Russia must intervene, so I fully agree on Russia sending serious signals now. RuN should make a barrier in the East Mediterranean to be capable of detecting and downing as many CMs as possible before they reach the coast. As far as they do not attack the launching platforms they could get away with it as a defensive show of support for an ally and not an act of aggression against US (they would be battered in the media but we count on that regardless). US assets in South and East remain a problem, no Russian presence there and the Southeast of the country is very far from the assets in Hmeymim and Tartus. A-50s and Su-35s should also make "exercises" these days...
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    Post  LMFS on Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:39 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:You all fail to understand the point, if Russia is willing to escalate things to that point with the US they could do something, but Russia isn't about to cross that line with the states over Assad.

    It is not about Assad, it is about the capacity of Russia to defend their allies. Which is obviously crucial for attracting or even keeping any in the current conditions.

    As much as they can bend and compromise many times, it would be fool to think they don't have a limit. This is a direct challenge and inevitably at some point direct challenges need to be met.

    It is reassuring to know one of the traits of the psychos in charge of the West is that they love risk isn't it? pale
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:13 am

    LMFS wrote:

    As much as they can bend and compromise many times, it would be fool to think they don't have a limit. This is a direct challenge and inevitably at some point direct challenges need to be met.

    It is reassuring to know one of the traits of the psychos in charge of the West is that they love risk isn't it? pale

    Its about Russia. After fall of Assad is Iran then Russia. Meh no psychos in West. Just businessmen , look at tramp. OK Bolton is a psycho. bounce bounce bounce
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    Post  LMFS on Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:37 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:Its about Russia. After fall of Assad is Iran then Russia. Meh no psychos in West.  Just businessmen , look at tramp. OK  Bolton is a psycho. bounce bounce bounce

    you see, it didn't took long to come up with a nice specimen. There are some more cases that could be submitted BTW...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQwofJEQ6ng

    As to whether it is about Russia or about Russian allies, name it as you want, it makes no difference. If Russia can't defend their allies it will be isolated, weakened and ultimately defeated.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:42 am

    LMFS wrote:

    you see, it didn't took long to come up with a nice specimen. There are some more cases that could be submitted BTW...

    ok Graham second brain damaged after McCain bounce bounce bounce This military sounds reasonable here.




    As to whether it is about Russia or about Russian allies, name it as you want, it makes no difference. If Russia can't defend their allies it will be isolated, weakened and ultimately defeated.

    this is definitely a way to look on it.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:04 am

    Russia knew that it was coming when they ordered the 2 Caspian Flotilla + 2 more BSF ships to the E. Med. Sea. The PLAN could also benefit by participating in a real world ops. But they may not arrive there in time.
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    Post  LMFS on Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:22 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:ok Graham second brain damaged after McCain  bounce  bounce  bounce This military sounds reasonable here.
    Incredibly I was feeling compassion for a guy like Carter lol1 lol1 lol1
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:47 am

    It is a ship packing huge amount of cheap missile for its size supposed to go with bigger ship to launch massive attack in closed zones like black sea.

    Where would it be operating where it is beyond range of land based air support?

    America thinks Phalanx is fine for shooting down subsonic anti ship missiles... a 20mm cannon firing at half the rate of either of the two Russian 30mm cannons with a much lighter projectile than the Soviet guns... plus there is a 76mm gun on the front with presumably airburst ammo able to hit flying targets too.

    It is basically a light patrol boat that can also be used for coastal defence using some anti ship missiles... if an enemy force approaches it will likely fire its anti ship missiles and then withdraw... it should be able to pretty much take on anything in the Caspian sea...

    unless drone like Riper/Predator hovers on 5kms with couple of Hellfire missiles. Surely small ships alwasy have cover unless they dont.

    Till the airburst 76.2mm shell shatters it... it would be better trying from 12km... but then Hellfires don't reach that far do they?


    really nothing? what tghis dude was smokin? I need same stuff for the weekend

    Yes, of course... the Russian Navy have never even comprehended the idea of a threat from low flying subsonic missiles threatening their ships and would be powerless to do anything about it... change the target from a land coordinate to a ship at sea and they become anti ship missiles which would be decimated by the Russian fleet that practises against such threats all the time... but set the target with land coordinates and they are in trouble... Rolling Eyes

    The reason I didn't quote that is because he's only partially right.
    Some targets may be hit, & the VMF will play a supporting role in operations in Idlib. It's the last rebel held enclave where many on both sides will be taken out of the gene pool soon.

    Are you kidding?

    A US strike on Syria wont be to help the forces in Idlib... they are already screwed... a US led cruise missile attack on Syria will focus on trying to take down the air defence forces of Syria... followed by waves of missiles to try to kill assad and his government structure...

    first of all it's for deterrence. If Russian ship get hit will be response to carrier. So guess why Popmeo asked Lavrov for meeting? CMs flying without entering Turkey or Israel can decimated, but not all destroyed. There is more on land

    A group of Russian ships in the Med also pushes back potentially safe launch positions for the cruise missile carriers... to avoid the risk they might be targeted...

    So not only does it introduce a layer of defence against low flying subsonic cruise missiles... it greatly extends the flight time of the missiles because they will have to fly low... which uses up more fuel and makes them slower... it adds to the areas where they can be intercepted on the way to their targets, and it increases the warning time for forces in Syria to prepare for the attack.

    Even klintok (naval OSA) is very capable of shooting down low flying cruise missiles, let alone larger SAMs on Russian ships...

    The added factor is that those ships also carry anti ship and land attack missiles that could also be used to target the launch platforms of any missile strike... something NATO is not familiar... a target that can hit back.

    You all fail to understand the point, if Russia is willing to escalate things to that point with the US they could do something, but Russia isn't about to cross that line with the states over Assad.

    Assad is a figurehead... even if a cruise missile managed to kill him... the regime would remain and anyone who replaced him in office is hardly going to be pro west and Americas best friend in the region...

    And it is the US that is crossing lines, Russia is just reacting... any of those cruise missiles pass close to Russian ships they might consider it a threat and retaliate on the source of the threat... nothing the US Navy would not do...

    Hold your​ horses everyone

    Those missiles are for Idlib

    Let's not go full whatever that last USA ops was again

    The US has made it clear it will hold Assad personally responsible for any chemical weapon attack... we know they don't have any requirement for evidence... they just need footage on social media showing men in a hospital washing children with fire hoses... they wont fire a single missile at Idlib... this is going to be a heavy strike and it is going to target the Assad regime with the goal of decapitation of the Syrian government....



    Its about Russia. After fall of Assad is Iran then Russia. Meh no psychos in West.

    It is about Russias future... lets face it if Assad was in americas pocket he could murder any one he liked... he would be a bastard, but he would be our bastard.... just check out bus killing Saudis... they execute gays and human rights activists but they are OK because they bought 400 billion dollars worth of US weapons....

    Lets face it... no matter who Russia deals with... the west will class them as tyrants and murderers and dictators... even elected people like Hugo Chaves...

    At the end of the day when the US pushes the Russians are going to have to start pushing back... the cold war ended and the warsaw pact and part of the former soviet union jumped ship like the rats they are... actually probably a good deal for Russia and a bad deal for NATO, but it was a significant loss of market.

    Russia needs to find new trading partners... it doens't matter if they are poor... both trade partners can develop and grow with mutually beneficial trade.

    The rich powerful west are going to do all they can to stop this of course because they want to contain the Russians and keep the rest of the world under their thumb.

    It is why in 10-15 years Russia will need a powerful navy including carriers so when this sort of shit happens off the coast of south africa or south america that Russia will be able to respond with sufficient force to make the west back down.

    If Russia can't defend their allies it will be isolated, weakened and ultimately defeated.

    And importantly right now when dick head Trump is stupid enough to be a bully in public (the US was allways a bully but doing it in public is a good lesson for the average people of the world who don't normally see their governments getting hot crumpet from behind by the US ambassador and being told what they should be doing if they don't want the Gaddafi treatment).

    Now is a time to get allies and new trade partners... countries that would previously never have considered Russia as a partner, but realise what sort of relationship they have with the west is bad for them... of course if russia backs down or does nothing and Syria gets its regime killed then they are no longer a viable alternative to the west...

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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:30 am

    So not only does it introduce a layer of defence against low flying subsonic cruise missiles... it greatly extends the flight time of the missiles because they will have to fly low... which uses up more fuel and makes them slower...
    Why can't CMs be programmed to fly high & low over water & low over land? Those launched from a ship & the B-1B in the Arabian Gulf won't even fly over the Med. Sea.

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