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    Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

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    Tyloe

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Tyloe on Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:06 am

    Firebird wrote:Is that pic of an upgraded Kirov class?
    Or is it some concept art for an enlarged Leader class cruiser/similar?

    There seems to be quite a lot of changes vis a vis the current Kirovs.

    Also, I wonder if a Kirov could be "stealthified"?

    Finally, I wonder what long term plans they have for the Kirov hulls.
    Maybe ICMB or intercontinental cruise missile carrying? Maybe they could hold the huge generators for laser defence and EM guns? Maybe as a launch base for smaller satellites?

    The pictures were for marketing and a rough concept of how Zaslon's naval radar can applied in various systems. Such as being included in the modernisation program for Nakhimov and Pyotr Velikiy and other naval ship projects. No news about a contract being awarded to Zaslon for possible new radar systems for the kirovs.. yet.

    Modern phased arrays would generate a much higher quality search and targeting over what they have now, and  would drastically help with target discrimination and less susceptible to jamming if it works with other radar systems operating at different bands. Like the Poliment 5P-20K AESA on the Gorshkov-class frigate, they also have a much higher surface and air search volume, and can track many times more targets, and detect them at longer range, than Kirov's current systems. So it would make sense if the navy was looking to upgrade the electron systems to work with new missile systems as well, and companies like Zaslon, want a piece of the pie.


    As for stealth re-construction of Kirov's superstructure, it's probably unlikely since the main focus of the refit and upgrades of Nakhimov are its armament. Also funds.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  GarryB on Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:47 am

    The kirov class vessels were already considered rather stealthy in terms of RCS.

    I remember a british naval professional once said that when tracking a Kirov the radar return was much smaller than would be expected from such a large vessel and that it was the size of the wake that usually identified the vessel as being a Kirov as opposed to being a much smaller vessel.

    This was mainly due to the internal nature of all the primary weapons.


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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:28 am

    Does anyone know if there is truth to the rumour that the hull and reactor/propulsion of the Ural SSV-33 intelligence ship (a Pr 1144 hull) is being preserved rather than scrapped? "Recent" photos of the hulk show the superstructures almost completely removed, but the hull appears intact.

    Could the Russian military be mothballing the Ural with a mind to rebuilding her in the future as a Kirov Mk 2?
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:58 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:Does anyone know if there is truth to the rumour that the hull and reactor/propulsion of the Ural SSV-33 intelligence ship (a Pr 1144 hull) is being preserved rather than scrapped?  "Recent" photos of the hulk show the superstructures almost completely removed, but the hull appears intact.

    Could the Russian military be mothballing the Ural with a mind to rebuilding her in the future as a Kirov Mk 2?

    Orr nuclear sysatem-6 drones mother ship Smile More seriously building a warship on her IMHO is no good idea costs can be prohibitively high comparing to results.

    Maybe something like EW/ Railgun / Laser ship?
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    George1

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  George1 on Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:34 am

    Currently, the company "Sevmash" is undergoing renovation and modernization of heavy nuclear missile cruiser "Admiral Nakhimov", work on it is scheduled for completion in 2018. repair of the cruiser "Peter the Great" will be held in 2019.

    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=3&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160208/1371310443.html&usg=ALkJrhis_3Bbb-UmznllRfuoVCYoUzS3mA


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    zardof

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    Kirov Admiral Lazaref

    Post  zardof on Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:10 pm

    I check (https://maps.yandex.ru) and Nuclear Cruiser Admiral Lazarev left recently dry dock in Dunay for Bukhta Abrek bay after basic repair and paint.
    I wish he will go soon for overhault like Admiral Nakhimov.  Very Happy
    Not far from him is Ivan Rogov BDK A Nikolayev .... another goog candidate for overhault after Mistral collapse and BDC Ivan Green delays.
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    Isos

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Isos on Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:47 pm

    Will the upgraded kirov have still 800 people on board or less (by automatisation like they did on alpha subs)?
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    Morpheus Eberhardt

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:07 am

    Considering the sophistication of this class and the large number of sophisticated systems that it incorporates, its complement of 700-800 is already a tiny complement and is a result of extreme automation.

    Austin

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Austin on Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:20 am

    Can some one tell me what is the final weapons configuration for upgraded Nakhimov if its known officially ?

    Like number and types of SAM , SSM , CIWS , Torpedoes etc
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:37 am

    Austin wrote:Can some one tell me what is the final weapons configuration for upgraded Nakhimov if its known officially ?

    Like number and types of SAM , SSM , CIWS , Torpedoes etc

    The only thins I´ve read in ria news was 80 Calibers as ASch warfare. Unfortunately cannot find it now. I am also curious what will be after 2020 with her.
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    Isos

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Isos on Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:30 pm

    [img][/img]
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:39 pm

    Isos wrote:

    is this official? do you have source? It woudl look nice if true but why to keep obsolete TORd if you can have so many Reduts?
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    Isos

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Isos on Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:46 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Isos wrote:

    is this official? do you have source?  It woudl look nice if true but why to keep obsolete TORd if you can have so many Reduts?

    I just found this on Google image (http://z13.invisionfree.com/TheBelkanEmpire/index.php?showtopic=140&view=getnewpost). Not a reliable source but it has nice images.

    Tor isn't obsolate in its last variants. A short range missile against anti ship missiles, maybe also against shells ... So they can load all the UKSK with long range Redut/S400.


    Can someone translate what's written ?


    Last edited by Isos on Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Militarov

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Militarov on Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:54 pm

    Isos wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Isos wrote:

    is this official? do you have source?  It woudl look nice if true but why to keep obsolete TORd if you can have so many Reduts?

    I just found this on Google image (http://z13.invisionfree.com/TheBelkanEmpire/index.php?showtopic=140&view=getnewpost).

    Tor isn't obsolate in its last variants. A short range missile against anti ship missiles, maybe also against shells ... So they can load all the UKSK with long range Redut/S400.


    Can someone translate what's written ?

    Translation:

    One modernisation variant of missile cruiser Project. 1144.2

    Heavy nuclear missile cruiser project 144.3
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:37 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Isos wrote:

    I just found this on Google image (http://z13.invisionfree.com/TheBelkanEmpire/index.php?showtopic=140&view=getnewpost).


    This varians is real but I am afraid only for Belkan Empire not Russian one Razz

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    Isos

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Isos on Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:48 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Isos wrote:

    I just found this on Google image (http://z13.invisionfree.com/TheBelkanEmpire/index.php?showtopic=140&view=getnewpost).


    This varians is real but I am afraid only for Belkan Empire not Russian one  Razz


    ^^ Well we can imagine russia's one will be similar to this one.

    Shocked 144 Oniks/kalibr = 144 Million $ (if one of them is 1 Million $) It's the cost of a Steregoushchi. It has more anti ship missile than a normal navy has Anti air missiles Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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    Boban

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Boban on Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:14 pm

    The price tag for the ship including all those missiles is insane.

    chicken

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  chicken on Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:05 am

    Nakhimov gets S-300FM (like Peter the Great) and Paket-NK, no Redut.
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1124199.html
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:40 am

    chicken wrote:Nakhimov gets S-300FM (like Peter the Great) and Paket-NK, no Redut.
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1124199.html

    Holy, that sounds like quite the system really. Vertical launchers for Klub and S-300FM? Hopefully something more modern though for S-300FM.
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    Naval Fan

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Naval Fan on Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:30 am

    GarryB wrote:Regarding Zircon it is the replacement missile for Onyx and will be designed to fit in the standard UKSK vertical launch system... so presumably when it is ready for service every new Russian vessel and vessel upgraded with UKSK tubes will be able to carry and use it... from corvette to carrier...

    I would assume in addition to replacing Onyx with a hypersonic missile they will also likely upgrade Kalibr with a longer ranged model too.

    According to state television news (broadcast of 11.10.2015),[15] launch of production took place in 2012. Details of this version[16] - the maximum speed of Mach 3, the range of 4,000 km, basing in the air, on land, on water and under water (shows launch from water depth). The missile can make in-flight maneuvers 147 times or more (in any direction), the minimum height of 10 meters, an average of 20 – 50 meters (up to 1000), it will automatically follow terrain, the missile can be controlled in flight.

    Copied from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M-54_Klub

    Could this be the new long ranged Cruise missile?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:52 am

    As seen from the link, this is a description of Klub, though the 4,000km range and mach three speed are unlikely especially at that altitude... such features are incompatible... it might be a 2.5 ton turbojet powered missile with a range of 4,000km as the air launched Kh-101/102 can reportedly manage 5,500km range but at subsonic speed. Alternatively the mach 3 speed at low altitude would require a powerful ramjet or scramjet engine which would use a lot of fuel at low altitudes and therefore have no where near that range with that speed.

    There is one model of Klub that could actually fit that description... the supersonic anti ship model with a turbojet for most of the flight and a rocket for the last stage could manage that sort of performance... of course for the vast majority of the flight it would cruise at medium altitude at subsonic speed well outside the range of enemy radar... and then when it got to perhaps within 500km of the target area it could drop down to low altitude to hide behind the radar horizon. when it got to the radar horizon of the target the main rocket would fire and the missile would cover the last 40-50kms at high speed and very low level under rocket propulsion.

    An upgraded model with a scramjet for the final phase to extend that period of high speed at very low level would be interesting...

    This could be an upgrade of the supersonic Klub... a supersonic model with a scramjet motor for the final phase of flight... ie subsonic medium altitude flight for 3-4,000km, and then jettison the main body and large wings and turbojet engine and start up a scramjet engine to accelerate the now much lighter missile to very high speeds for the last 1,000km of the route would be interesting...

    Of course Zircon probably is more like Onyx or Moskit and climbs and accelerates to high altitude and high speed immediately to reduce attack time and enemy reaction time assuming it will be detected at long range anyway.


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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:44 pm


    Honestly, this thing is just scary... affraid russia





    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1793944.html

    Tyloe

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  Tyloe on Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:45 am

    Glad to see MR-800 and MR-710 are going to be replaced with better sensors. Probably adding fixed arrays or a stronger dual-faced AESA radar on the mast. Anyway superior quality targeting and volume search over his previous systems.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:47 am

    Newer systems will have better performance and also be cheaper to maintain and lighter and likely smaller in terms of components and racks, though antennas might be bigger.

    Regarding artillery support in Syria, the Kirovs only had 130mm guns, so its ability to provide fire support would be very limited. It would need to remain offshore several kms to prevent the local nutters lining her up with conventional land artillery and ATGMs, so its reach inshore would be pathetic.

    An Su-25 on the other hand can accurately deliver much heavier HE payloads to where ever it is needed using guided and unguided rockets and bombs and would be much more flexible.

    With a proper self defence suite it should be safe from MANPADS and as long as it flys above small arms fire it should be able to pick and hit targets at will.

    No need for keeping a small towns worth of Russian Navy personnel offshore for long periods.


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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:45 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Honestly, this thing is just scary... affraid  russia





    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1793944.html

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