Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Share

    Arrow
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 144
    Points : 144
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Arrow on Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:05 pm

    So soon S-400 will be able to destroy the balistic missile RV target flying at the speed about 4.8 km/s?
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16054
    Points : 16685
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:05 am

    Ahh... Sean... our own Lord of the Rings... Perhaps Sean is Elvish for Sauron?


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    SOC
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 583
    Points : 632
    Join date : 2011-09-13
    Age : 39
    Location : Indianapolis

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  SOC on Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:04 pm

    GarryB wrote:Ahh... Sean... our own Lord of the Rings... Perhaps Sean is Elvish for Sauron?

    Quiet, you. Or I'll start a campaign to get New Zealand to buy a squadron of F-35s jocolor

    Actually, I think I'll leave the 250 km rings in there, and add additional 400 km rings.
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16054
    Points : 16685
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:15 am

    Quiet, you. Or I'll start a campaign to get New Zealand to buy a squadron of F-35s

    Pretty safe there... not even the National Government could justify spending that sort of money even in good economic times... for all the money we spent on our A-4Ms we couldn't afford one F-35.

    It will be pretty impressive to the effectiveness of the system to add rings at 400km... just in terms of the maths involved. Generally when you increase the radius of a circle by 1/3rd you triple the area inside the circle, so extending the rings from 200-400km is not just doubling the range of the missiles... you are going from a 400km diameter circle to an 800km diameter circle... you would need less than a half dozen batteries to cover all of New Zealand... which is an awkwardly shaped long narrowish country.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Viktor
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5669
    Points : 6318
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Viktor on Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:57 pm

    Its numbers are begining to impact.

    07/14/12 MANEUVERS WITH ASD FIRING OF C-400 WILL BEGIN AUGUST 10
    July 14 2012 .

    RIA Novosti reported. Forces Aerospace Defense (ASD) from 10 to 16 August 2012 at the site Ashuluk (Astrakhan region) will conduct the first live-fire exercises with the anti-aircraft missile systems S-400, told RIA Novosti on Saturday, a representative of the Russian Defense Ministry troops ASD Colonel Dmitry Zenin.

    "In the period from 10 to 16 August at the site will Ashuluk first tactical exercises compounds Defense Forces ASD live-fire from anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM) and S-400 air defense missile and gun complexes" Armour-C "- a spokesman said .

    Zenin said that in these exercises will be attended by two battalions from the regiment of S-400, stationed in the suburban Dmitrov.

    According to the Defense Ministry, the organization of the upcoming exercises and combat training in the formations and units EKR discussed on Friday at the base of one of the suburban anti-aircraft missile regiments Air Defense Command PRO-members fees with the leadership of the combat training of troops under the leadership of SAI deputy commander ASD Lieutenant-General Sergei Lobov.

    "The gathering was attended by over 100 heads of departments of the Main Combat Training Center of missile warning, space exploration of the Main Center of the situation, the Chief of the test space center named Titov, connections, and missile defense, Plesetsk, arsenal and communications center SAI Troops" - explained Zenin.

    Last Wednesday, Deputy Chief of Defence Force Major-General Pavel Kurachenko reported that the Russian army will get to the end of 2012 the fifth set of the regimental air defense missile system S-400. Now the Russian army has four shelves-400, two of which are deployed in the suburbs, one - in the Baltic Fleet, and one - in the Far East.

    S-400 "Triumph" - a system of large and medium-range new generation. It is designed to defeat all current and future air and space attack - reconnaissance aircraft, aircraft of strategic and tactical operations, tactical and intermediate range ballistic missiles, hypersonic aircraft targets and radar patrol and guidance.
    http://ria.ru/

    Firebird
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Lieutenant Colonel

    Posts : 940
    Points : 972
    Join date : 2011-10-14

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Firebird on Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:11 am

    hmm,the whole topic of S-400/ 500 is mindbogglig/ perplexing.

    I wonder how it will fit into Russia's overall defence strategy.
    How will it compare to Nato's ABM system etc etc

    Its intersting to note that America thought it could get the S-500 on the cheap in around 2000. I think thats what may have caused their hissy fit in trying to set up their ABM shield in Pol and Cz.

    I think Russia has incredibly advanced skills in missile tech. So I wonder how it would withstand a huge assault.
    And also, how far will Russia want to export the S-400 etc.

    Will Russia look to defend against boost and midphase missiles too? Will laser defences appear before the long term future?
    So many unanswered questions.

    Mindstorm
    Captain
    Captain

    Posts : 762
    Points : 943
    Join date : 2011-07-20

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Mindstorm on Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:01 pm


    Its intersting to note that America thought it could get the S-500 on the cheap in around 2000.


    Shocked Shocked Shocked

    Seriously Firebird are you sure that before conceiving amd expressing that....absurdely odd idea....you was perfectly in own of your understanding capabilities.

    S-500 ? Laughing Laughing USA would pay in bribe any amount of money to be capable TODAY to produce even something on par with advanced export versions of late S-300 family specimens (such as S-300PMU-2).

    At today, in this specific field, the technological gap between Russian and Western products is so crushing that a system like S-400 is ,and will remain for at least another decade and half, a true alien under a mere technical/performance point of view.

    The best that USA is capable to produce ,in that field, are one-task systems very often with great limits even within theirs area of specialization (like the SM-3).

    The problems posed by the planned NATO ABM system in East Europe are linked mostly to three main factors:

    1) The most important one: The geographical position of this high-end ABM system ,attentively choosen to attempt (in future with purposely optimized and modified SM-3s) , North's Pole interceptions of Topol-M class ICBM in the unique segment of vulnerability of theirs offensive pact toward North America targets (not European ones against which this ABM would be TOTALLY useless)

    2) The number of those systems, not limited by any bilateral agreement since the unilateral retreat by part of USA from the ABM Treaty in 2002 (a very risky move taken just to attempt to offset ,in some way, the fast widening technological gap in nuclear delivery systems with Russian counterparts ,highlighted by the appearance on the scene of Topol-M class ICBM and still growing in those same days).

    3) The fact that the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty -INF- is still standing (even if ,very likely, it would become very quickly waste paper if a effcient compromise between NATO and Russian federation will be not found within some years) putting all the stress of the situation on the always shrinking numbers of strategical ICBM.



    Firebird
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Lieutenant Colonel

    Posts : 940
    Points : 972
    Join date : 2011-10-14

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Firebird on Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:37 pm

    Mindstorm wrote:
    Its intersting to note that America thought it could get the S-500 on the cheap in around 2000.


    Shocked Shocked Shocked

    Seriously Firebird are you sure that before conceiving amd expressing that....absurdely odd idea....you was perfectly in own of your understanding capabilities.

    S-500 ? Laughing Laughing USA would pay in bribe any amount of money to be capable TODAY to produce even something on par with advanced export versions of late S-300 family specimens (such as S-300PMU-2).

    At today, in this specific field, the technological gap between Russian and Western products is so crushing that a system like S-400 is ,and will remain for at least another decade and half, a true alien under a mere technical/performance point of view.

    The best that USA is capable to produce ,in that field, are one-task systems very often with great limits even within theirs area of specialization (like the SM-3).





    http://www.missilethreat.com/missiledefensesystems/id.54/system_detail.asp

    Fortunately, Putin is made of sterner stuff than his predessor Yeltsin.

    I'm not saying missilethreat is a good source, but I always felt the US were getting shitty over some type of jealousy.

    Mindstorm
    Captain
    Captain

    Posts : 762
    Points : 943
    Join date : 2011-07-20

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Mindstorm on Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:04 pm


    http://www.missilethreat.com/missiledefensesystems/id.54/system_detail.asp

    Question Question


    S-500 is a Russian surface-to-air missile system that, if developed, will be able to track and destroy ballistic missiles with ranges of up to 3,500 kilometers.

    Laughing Laughing Laughing

    If even the late version of Army's S-300V family (S-300V4) are already TODAY more than capable to do that !!!
    "S-500 ,if developed will be able ", Laughing Laughing simply priceless.


    At the time, the S-400 and its upgraded version, the Antey-2500, were barely below the demarcation threshold.

    Shocked Shocked Shocked

    Simply genial !
    We now must only advice Almaz/Antey of this fact; do you know those very dumb guys of the designers of those systems at today still don't had realized what this group of Nobel prizes have brightly foreseen Razz Razz .
    Now next time Almaz/Antey will show Antey-2500 (naturally the older version of it !!!) in any international exibitions will finally assert that them have offered for years to customers the....upgraded version of the ,by far, most powerful and efficient Air Defense system now operative on the planet, present at today in limited number only in Russian Federation key sites and still banned for export .... Laughing Laughing Laughing


    What can say ? Another proof ,from the recent past, of the.... stellar performances... of the US intelligence gsthering agencies.
    And with similar level of efficiency someone is still surprised for what happend at New York just an year after those clumsy enemy's capability assessments and projections of year 2000 ?


    Arrow
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 144
    Points : 144
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Arrow on Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:41 pm

    Now next time Almaz/Antey will show Antey-2500 (naturally the older version of it !!!) in any international exibitions will finally assert that them have offered for years to customers the....upgraded version of the ,by far, most powerful and efficient Air Defense system now operative on the planet

    So new version of Antey-2500 is more powerful and efficient than S-400?

    Mindstorm
    Captain
    Captain

    Posts : 762
    Points : 943
    Join date : 2011-07-20

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Mindstorm on Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:52 pm

    So new version of Antey-2500 is more powerful and efficient than S-400?

    Oh not, Arrow , obviously not.

    New version of Antey-2500 (that offered Almaz-Antey in the latest exibition with 350 kmof engagement range ) is a substantially downgraded export version of domestic S-300V4 at its own time substantially inferior to S-400 overall.

    Mine was clearly an ironic statement aimed at leg pull this comical assertion :

    "At the time, the S-400 and its upgraded version, the Antey-2500, were barely below the demarcation threshold."

    Laughing Laughing

    present in this article of 2000

    http://www.missilethreat.com/missiledefensesystems/id.54/system_detail.asp


    All clear now?


    Arrow
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 144
    Points : 144
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Arrow on Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:20 am

    S400V4 has similar parameter than S-400? Propably 400km engagement range and destroy ballistic missiles with ranges of up to 3,500 kilometers.
    avatar
    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5700
    Points : 5736
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  TR1 on Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:43 am

    Not disagreeing, but can you make a detailed S-400 vs S-300V4 comparison Mindstorm (or SOC, anyone else, etc) ?

    It is certainly a much more mobile system, even if the S-400 is absurdly mobile for such a large wheeled complex.
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16054
    Points : 16685
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:59 am

    Keep in mind that the S-300V is really the Armys "new" SAM, where S-300P was for the Air Force and S-300F was for the Navy.

    The end result was that S-300P and S-300F were directly related in terms of missiles and systems, but the S-300V branched off... focusing more on ATBM performance (that is anti theatre ballistic missile), so for use against weapons like Honest John and Lance and Lance II type western missiles.

    Physically the S-300V missiles are different from the S-300F and S-300P as the S-300V are two stage missiles that come in two types... large missiles on a twin TEL and smaller missiles on a quad TEL.

    In addition to a greater ABM focus they also had a different mobility focus as all the missile systems and support vehicles are based on tracked vehicles, which effects their short and long range mobility (ie tracked vehicles can move over almost any terrain, but long moves over roads are much slower than with wheeled vehicles... in other words their tactical mobility is excellent and their strategic mobility is poor by road... much like the vehicles they are protecting...)


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    SOC
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 583
    Points : 632
    Join date : 2011-09-13
    Age : 39
    Location : Indianapolis

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  SOC on Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:30 pm

    The whole thing used to be under the S-300 concept for a new medium-range SAM system. Initially you had the S-300 and S-500U (not the same as the current S-500) concepts competing. The S-500U was rejected, as it had little ability to perform the army's goal of blasting TBMs. A bit later, design and concept differences led to the S-300P/S-300V split. The S-300V initially had more ATBM capability, being conceived in part to be able to deal with Pershing, but any advantage it had largely went away with the S-300PM. The S-300F was derived from the S-300P as the navy and air force had similar ideas in mind.

    Now you've got the S-300V4 and the S-400 as the latest iterations. Both are mobile, with mobility usually referred in terms of system empalcement time. Both can erect or displace in around 5 minutes, which if you aren't aware is ridiculously fast, provided you aren't using 40V6 masts with the S-400. The V has better cross country mobility as it is tracked, while the P/400's are pretty much road-bound, which is perfectly fine for their given role.

    The S-300V uses what is basically two midifications of the same missile, with the ATBM round using a much bigger booster stage to give higher acceleration and greater footprint.

    Apart from differences that came about in regard to differing design considerations such as off-road mobility for the army, there isn't really that much these days that separates the two systems in terms of capability. They're both ridiculously capable against a wide range of targets and you wouldn't be at any real disadvantage picking one or the other. At this point it probably simply comes down to whether or not you want the added cross-country mobility that the S-300V offers.

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 6092
    Points : 6498
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Austin on Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:02 pm

    SOC wrote:being conceived in part to be able to deal with Pershing, but any advantage it had largely went away with the S-300PM.

    I think S-300V/VM and perhaps by its extension S-300V4 will still retain its edge over any S-300P system by its sheer amount of energy specially the Big Missile , iirc the Big Missile has a top speed of Mach 7 and Average Speed of Mach 3.5 which is quite high for any SAM ......the S-300P series has some what lower top speed and average speed, The small missile of S-300V matches the PM in energy.

    I think even the top 3 missile in S-400 series do not have those kind of energy as the big missile of V series has , that might change with 40N6 about which we know so little.
    avatar
    medo
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3145
    Points : 3235
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  medo on Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:36 pm

    What is most important here, is the fact, that both domestic S-400 and S-300V4 will be more capable than any export S-300 type or S-400.
    avatar
    SOC
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 583
    Points : 632
    Join date : 2011-09-13
    Age : 39
    Location : Indianapolis

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  SOC on Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:22 pm

    Austin wrote:I think S-300V/VM and perhaps by its extension S-300V4 will still retain its edge over any S-300P system by its sheer amount of energy specially the Big Missile , iirc the Big Missile has a top speed of Mach 7 and Average Speed of Mach 3.5 which is quite high for any SAM ......the S-300P series has some what lower top speed and average speed, The small missile of S-300V matches the PM in energy.

    I think even the top 3 missile in S-400 series do not have those kind of energy as the big missile of V series has , that might change with 40N6 about which we know so little.

    It does have a few advantages, namely the dedicated sector-search ATBM radar, but the velocity isn't as big a deal as you might think it is. What the higher velocity does is primarily enable the 9M82 to have a larger ATBM footprint than a 48N6 as it can convert speed to range. Plus, the average speed figures look a bit low for how they actually work. The whole point of the huge booster for the 9M82 is to get it up to velocity as fast as possible. Velocity will fall off at the tail end of the trajectory, and once it falls below a certain point you've lost controllability. But for most of its flight profile within the engagement envelope it isn't going to be slowing down too much, thanks to the fact that it's got a sustainer motor in the second stage. One reason they keep screwing with the S-300V series is because it's got a lot of untapped kinematic potential in the missile, hence the continued range increases with successive variants. In this case the engagement limits, particularly those of early models, had a lot to do with radar and guidance system limitations.

    The 48N6DM in the S-400 can engage a target at 4800 m/s, while the original 9M82 could hit targets moving at 3200 m/s. That's with no increase in missile velocity for the 48N6DM over the earlier 48N6 or 48N6D; an increase wasn't required given the more advanced guidance system compared to the S-300PM. Now, what improvements have gone into the 9M82 variant for the S-300V4, I don't know. It likely engages higher-velocity targets, given that the Antey-2500 had an expanded envelope to targets at 4500 m/s. Much beyond those figures though, and you're moving into actual ABM territory, which requires different things. So the S-400 and S-300V4 likely share the capability to engage the same class of TBM targets. The only real advantage in performance terms at this point is the 9M82's bigger ATBM footprint.

    With an accurate guidance system and a directional warhead in the 48N6, it's perfectly capable of hitting a TBM. Both Fakel (the 48N6) and Almaz (the system) did a lot of research in ATBM capability after watching the Patriot fall all over itself during 1991. Although in its defense Patriot was only operating with minimal ATBM changes at that point, so it's actually impressive that it managed to track and hit TBMs at all.

    medo wrote:What is most important here, is the fact, that both domestic S-400 and S-300V4 will be more capable than any export S-300 type or S-400.

    Yes, but not to the degree that is often implied. You've got the same motor and same propellant, so you'll get the same kinematic performance. The differences lie in the radar operating modes and frequencies, ECCM systems, etc. Also, you can impose a range-limit on a customer by only offering certain missile types. Don't give them access to the 40N6 and you've basically sold them an upgraded S-300PM instead of an S-400.

    Arrow
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 144
    Points : 144
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Arrow on Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:05 pm

    he 48N6DM in the S-400 can engage a target at 4800 m/s,

    Mayby the 40N6 can engage a target faster then 4800m/s.
    avatar
    SOC
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 583
    Points : 632
    Join date : 2011-09-13
    Age : 39
    Location : Indianapolis

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  SOC on Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:17 pm

    Arrow wrote:
    he 48N6DM in the S-400 can engage a target at 4800 m/s,

    Mayby the 40N6 can engage a target faster then 4800m/s.

    Entirely possible. Not really all that likely that it has a much higher target speed limit, though. Get too much higher and you're now an ABM, and that means you're also encroaching on the S-500's territory. I doubt they'd jack up the 40N6 to ABM levels with the S-500 coming in the near term. Plus the S-400 lacks the system infrastructure to support an actual ABM role anyway.

    Arrow
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 144
    Points : 144
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Arrow on Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:28 pm

    I think the 40N6 missile will also be use in S-500 system with other new missile. Is there any information on a new missile for S-500 ?
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16054
    Points : 16685
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:57 am

    It is hard to say.

    I have read different things ranging from it will be based on S-400 missiles, though it might have been "existing missiles" because to be honest if I was developing a missile that can operate in space having a two stage large missile of the S-300V would be a better starting point in my opinion, through to a brand new from scratch new design.

    In terms of the latter I have read mention that it will be smaller than the large S-400 missile.

    Now this is critical because if it is the same size or smaller than the large S-400 missile then there is the opportunity to "add" a few S-500 missiles to an S-400 battery so it can defend itself from long range attack from threats outside the atmosphere without needing a whole separate S-500 battery to operate with it.

    The sensors used to track targets for the S-500 would not need to be located with the S-400 battery... though talk of AESA radar antenna for S-400 with a range of 2,500km suggests it might already be equipped for the job anyway.

    At sea it would also mean that the new Redut vertical launch SAM system would be able to carry ABM missiles as well as SAMs, and with the datalink information sharing stuff they are implementing now you could have a tiny Frigate with a Redut launcher in the middle of the ocean receiving data from satellites above to engage BMs as they pass over the vessel.

    The core of the advantage is that it is compatible with existing standard launchers then its limit in terms of performance is how fast you can produce them because the launchers are already in large scale service.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 6092
    Points : 6498
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Austin on Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:28 am

    SOC wrote:
    It does have a few advantages, namely the dedicated sector-search ATBM radar, but the velocity isn't as big a deal as you might think it is. What the higher velocity does is primarily enable the 9M82 to have a larger ATBM footprint than a 48N6 as it can convert speed to range.

    Agreed you can trade off energy into range or you can also use the same energy to reach an intercept point faster then you would say with less energy , which translates to intercepting at higher altitude or getting a chance to have one more go at the target if the first one misses.

    Do you have figures for Hit Probability by a Single 9M82 and 48N6 missile against a typical BM target ?

    Also do you know of the size of target it can track with its long range radar ?


    I have came across figures from Indian scientist of AAD/PAD ABM when used in tandem ensures a hit probability of 99.8 % and the modified Green Pine can track a target of 0.1 m2 out to a range of 1000 km link


    Plus, the average speed figures look a bit low for how they actually work. The whole point of the huge booster for the 9M82 is to get it up to velocity as fast as possible. Velocity will fall off at the tail end of the trajectory, and once it falls below a certain point you've lost controllability.


    I got those average figures and top speed for the Big Missile of S-300VM from Carlo Kopp website.

    I think the average speed of M 3.5 refers to the maximum effective intercept range of the SAM , the top Speed would most likely be when the booster kicks in and cuts off that would be the time when the missile is at its top speed , the sustainer when kicks in eventually slow it down over a period of time and would give it a constant Mach 3.5 speed till eventually the sustainer cuts off then the 2nd stage is essentially coasting with no power of its own ..eventually it will reach a point where it will loose controllability as you have described

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 6092
    Points : 6498
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Austin on Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:37 am

    Hello SOC have a question here.

    S-500 was described as a ABM system capable of dealing with ICBM and LEO satellite targets by V Popvokin in an interview.

    Now ICBM has a reentry speed of 7.2 Km/sec iirc and orbital velocity is 7.8 km/sec

    LEO orbit is decribed any where between 200 to 2,000 km.

    So does that mean S-500 Missile or its kill vehical will need an orbital velocity of ~ 7.8 km/sec or greater to kill a satellite in orbit ?

    How would intercepting of LEO satellite work , lets say if one satellite is at 200 km and the other at 1800 km ?
    avatar
    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5700
    Points : 5736
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  TR1 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:07 am

    So, any news on Russia actually using the smaller 9m96 tubes on existing/future S-300/S-400 batteries, or are they simply going to leave self defense role to Pantsir, and medium range to Vityaz?

    I think I would be in favor of the masses of army/AF air defense complexes being slightly reduced for more aircraft for the RuAF. If planned numbers are any indicator, there is going to be an utter mass of tiered AD complexes by 2020, while the AF will shrink considerably...

    Sponsored content

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:23 pm