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    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor on Tue May 28, 2013 8:54 pm

    medo wrote:http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201305280924-f47r.htm


    They use S-300 complexes, that are already in Ashuluk and didn't take their own which are on duty. So it is possible, that they use older missiles for those live firings, where crews get practical skills firing on different targets. Such unexpected exercises actually show, what is real combat value of units.

    There are different reports but according to the link I posted it seems that whole systems have been airlifted (or perhaps just PVO

    tropers).

    Anyway WEST 2013/MAKS-2013/expo in Nizhny Tagil and this huge exercise - sure is interesting year (with deliveries of weaponry gaining

    pace)
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    Post  GarryB on Wed May 29, 2013 11:27 am

    I dont understand why do Russian fire expensive missile like S-300 in exercise unless these are EOL product that any way needs to be discarded.

    You can operate simulators all day, but launching real weapons is not the same and needs to be something they can actually do.

    Ask yourself what sort of training would the missile loading crew get with a simulator?

    The missiles will be near their expiry date and need to be fired... they will have made tens of thousands of these missiles... S-300 has been in service since the late 1970s so there will be plenty reaching their expiry dates all the time.

    The best practise is to practise for real, which is why the dumb cheap missiles of TOR and Pantsir-S1 is so genius because they are cheap to make and use yet the use of sophisticated sensors and control equipment make them day night all weather capable and very effective...

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    Post  gaurav on Wed May 29, 2013 6:17 pm

    Recent S-300 exercises..?
    Re-posting from another thread
    Russia ashuluk exercises

    S-300 big launchers..
    To put it mildly missile launchers are huge.They almost look like ICBM launchers.. Shocked
    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor on Thu May 30, 2013 2:30 am

    S-300 used in exercises where modernized to Favorit standard.

    About 80-90 S-300PS/PM batteries will be modernized to Favorit standard and serve by 2020 and beyond until S-400 gather the numbers.


    C-300 hit all targets during exercises near Astrakhan


    The combat readiness of the calculations of the S-300 "Favorite" was tested frontline aircraft, simulating a simulated enemy air raid.


    MOSCOW, May 29 - RIA Novosti. Anti-aircraft missile units of troops Aerospace Defense (ASD) has successfully hit all targets during the live firing on the range "Ashuluk" near Astrakhan, said Wednesday the press service of the Russian military.

    The beginning of a new dawn raids readiness of the Russian army on Monday morning announced the chief of the General Staff, Army General Valery Gerasimov. Checking the last three days, during a military campaign, "reflect" aerospace attack. As reported, the alarm raised by 8.7 thousand people, 185 combat aircraft and 240 armored fighting vehicles. On the teachings of the calculations of S-300, in particular, will have to reflect the massive air and missile attack on Ashuluk.

    "Today, in the course of the audit readiness of troops ASD units, combat crews of anti-aircraft missile systems S-300" Favorite "on the range" Ashuluk "successfully repelled the massive missile and air attack conventional enemy," - said in a statement.

    In the first stage combat effectiveness calculations of the S-300 "Favorite" was tested frontline aircraft, simulating a simulated enemy air raid. Aircraft operated at all altitudes, attacking disguised area with a variety of courses. Calculations of complex airborne targets were promptly detected and destroyed electronic starts.

    At the second stage covers up the area was hit by six rockets target type "arquebus" that simulate high-speed maneuvering small-sized aerial targets. Characteristics of targets "arquebus" are identical to those of modern cruise missiles. All the targets were destroyed by rocket launches military S-300 "Favorite".



    LINK


    And nice video

    SOC
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    Post  SOC on Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:13 pm

    [quote="Stealthflanker"]
    Viktor wrote:

    hmm what's that dark grey missile at the front of the motto banner ?

    It's kinda similar shape as the 2nd Stage of 9M83 missile for S-300V's but kinda different with small canard perhaps at its nose.


    Target drone. It's a converted 5V27. There was a pretty good article on using these as targets in Military Parade a long time ago.
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    Post  SOC on Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:15 pm

    So to see if I've got this right as of now:

    2 batteries at Elektrostal
    2 batteries at Dedenevo

    1 battery at Kaliningrad

    1 battery at Nakhodka

    1 battery at Novorossiysk

    Are there unit designators that can be applied to each location? Did I miss a deployment anywhere?
    SOC
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    Post  SOC on Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:32 pm

    Viktor wrote:New self propelled TEL (51P6A) for S-400 system

    Weird. I thought the new TEL for the S-400 was supposed to be the 5P90S / BAZ-6909. This is an MZKT-7930 chassis, all of the Belarussian and Ukrainian TEL/tractor/trailer/etc. components were supposed to be replaced by various BAZ components. Did that plan go away and the MZKT chassis will still be employed?
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    Post  Rpg type 7v on Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:44 pm

    http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20130531/181444491/Recent-Aerospace-Defense-Drills-Satisfactory--Putin.html
    i would say dissapointing No
    only 9 out of 11 target were hit. dunno
    i would say s-300 even by trained russian crews has flopped and failed.
    we can only imagine how easy it will be for israel to obliterate it with pathetic syrian crews...
    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:59 pm

    Rpg type 7v wrote:http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20130531/181444491/Recent-Aerospace-Defense-Drills-Satisfactory--Putin.html
    i would say dissapointing No
    only 9 out of 11 target were hit. dunno
    i would say s-300 even by trained russian crews has flopped and failed.
    we can only imagine how easy it will be for israel to obliterate it with pathetic syrian crews...

    It had nothing to do with the S-300. It had to do with the piss-poor management of the comanding officers using the C&C equipment. Anyway, even in US exercises, they do not get 100%, which is understandable as it is impossible to have 100% anyway.

    Don't even know what you are ranting about.
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    Post  Rpg type 7v on Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:09 pm

    c&c ,maybe but only if they were testing something new but s-300 shouldnt have any problems with any command station or missile garison because s-300 speaks all missile languages.
    actually there was insider info that syrian crews were present at ashuluk testing range...but only as observers.
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    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:17 pm

    Rpg type 7v wrote:c&c ,maybe but only if they were testing something new but s-300 shouldnt have any problems with any command station or missile garison because s-300 speaks all missile languages.
    actually there was insider info that syrian crews were present at ashuluk testing range...but only as observers.

    C&C has a lot to do with everything. Each person simply does not fire at a target by themselves without some command structure telling them otherwise. We were not present at the tests and so we do not know if missile launched or not. There were a lot of personel and equipment, not just S-300. So to say that "it failed" is a gross simplification and you are not credible to say it is or wasn't a success. From what I heard from someone who serves, it was due to poorly trained officers.

    Point of these drills is to drill out the poorly trained and equipment that either needs tuning or replacements. They recently introduced new C&C equipment and expecting everyone to be perfect at it is a joke. And by that, not every system is a 100% perfect and the tests show on where they need to work on. 9 out of 11 targets taken down is isn't a failure. It would be a failure if it was 6 or 7 IMO.
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    Post  TR1 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:29 pm

    Rpg type 7v wrote:http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20130531/181444491/Recent-Aerospace-Defense-Drills-Satisfactory--Putin.html
    i would say dissapointing No
    only 9 out of 11 target were hit. dunno
    i would say s-300 even by trained russian crews has flopped and failed.
    we can only imagine how easy it will be for israel to obliterate it with pathetic syrian crews...

    lol, what else to expect from out village dolt!

    I imagine Israeli A2G weapons have 100% hit rate.
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    Post  SOC on Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:33 pm

    sepheronx wrote:9 out of 11 targets taken down is isn't a failure. It would be a failure if it was 6 or 7 IMO.

    It'd be interesting to know how they reacted. Did they fire the standard two missiles per target, or only one? Shoot one missile and get a miss, and you can attribute that in part to operational procedures not being followed. Which isn't necessarily anything wrong, as it'd likely be done that way to 1) conserve missile stocks and 2) save money.

    Furthermore, operationally the battery will fire at pretty long range. That gives it time to react against missed targets and reengage, provided the missed targets don't turn and run while their wingmen are being obliterated.
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    Post  Viktor on Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:39 pm

    SOC wrote:So to see if I've got this right as of now:

    2 batteries at Elektrostal
    2 batteries at Dedenevo

    1 battery at Kaliningrad

    1 battery at Nakhodka

    1 battery at Novorossiysk

    Are there unit designators that can be applied to each location? Did I miss a deployment anywhere?

    I think in Nakhodka and Novorossiysk you have regiments not batteries. 9 batteries all in all.

    Every year until 2015 (included) Russia will make 2 regiments of S-400 (until those two new Almaz Antej factories are finished).

    Starting from 2016 we should see about 4 regiments of S-400 (most likely modernized version) per year.

    What is interesting and most puzzling is intention to have 9 S-300V4 brigades by 2020. Thats some real long range firepower.


    Rpg type 7v wrote:http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20130531/181444491/Recent-Aerospace-Defense-Drills-Satisfactory--Putin.html
    i would say dissapointing No
    only 9 out of 11 target were hit. dunno
    i would say s-300 even by trained russian crews has flopped and failed.
    we can only imagine how easy it will be for israel to obliterate it with pathetic syrian crews...

    Nope, all targets where shoot down.

    C-300 hit all targets during exercises near Astrakhan
    LINK


    The audit will cover the combat calculations designated areas for the purpose of detecting and destroying aircraft and ballistic targets represented a real target. LINK



    "In the calculations it is usually assumed that the air to intercept a ballistic target, or at least need to use two missiles. Probability of hitting a target, one air missiles are always lower than one, so the launch, as a rule, two interceptors. In this case, the result is better than anticipated Theory of fire, which is used in the aerospace defense forces, "- said Esin.

    LINK


    but the thing you are referring to is that 9/11 ballistic targets where shoot down with one missile and 2/11 with the use of two missiles.

    Experts: Russian aerospace defense system will ensure the destruction of any air targets

    Putin wanted all target missiles to be hit with one missiles only.


    sepheronx wrote:It had nothing to do with the S-300. It had to do with the piss-poor management of the comanding officers using the C&C equipment. Anyway, even in US exercises, they do not get 100%, which is understandable as it is impossible to have 100% anyway.

    Don't even know what you are ranting about.

    They where shooting from the S-300 modernized to Favorit standard so command posts are good.

    That talk about "communication" was general talk because they are in a process of getting SAM and radar command post and all other things.





    Also what is interesting is that MIG-31 was used to shoot down real cruise missiles (Kh-555 most likely) fired from Tu-95

    The head of the Defense Ministry reported that during the exercises link the MiG-31 is the destruction of the real cruise missile launched from a strategic bomber Tu-95.

    LINK






    and at the end the conditions in which exercise where performed where far from optimal because:

    Thousands of civilian aircraft obstructed the work of the troops ASD checking


    LINK
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    Post  Rpg type 7v on Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:26 pm

    yes seprenox guy was wrong no problem with c&c nore human factor.
    and you are wrong too.
    it sayt it did hit all of aircraft targets- using electronically simulated launches. they dont want to shoot their own men and aircraft that simulated enemy attack profiles.
    true launches -live firing-were used against balistic targets and 2/11 were missed and that is bad.
    even putin said himself -satisfactory-, meaning just over the bar ,not very good or excellent...
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    Post  Rpg type 7v on Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:11 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    Rpg type 7v wrote:http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20130531/181444491/Recent-Aerospace-Defense-Drills-Satisfactory--Putin.html
    i would say dissapointing No
    only 9 out of 11 target were hit. dunno
    i would say s-300 even by trained russian crews has flopped and failed.
    we can only imagine how easy it will be for israel to obliterate it with pathetic syrian crews...

    lol, what else to expect from out village dolt!

    I imagine Israeli A2G weapons have 100% hit rate.
    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1 - Page 26 L
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    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:03 pm

    Rpg type 7v wrote:yes seprenox guy was wrong no problem with c&c nore human factor.
    and you are wrong too.
    it sayt it did hit all of aircraft targets- using electronically simulated launches. they dont want to shoot their own men and aircraft that simulated enemy attack profiles.
    true launches -live firing-were used against balistic targets and 2/11 were missed and that is bad.
    even putin said himself -satisfactory-, meaning just over the bar ,not very good or excellent...

    If we are wrong, would you please post a link? At least the fellow above did so, and you failed to do so.

    http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20130531/181444491/Recent-Aerospace-Defense-Drills-Satisfactory--Putin.html

    "You already reported to me during our work that the most vulnerable area, as we discussed recently with the commanders at the meetings in Sochi, is the command and communications system. Please pay particular attention to this area," the president said.

    You are quick to your judgements yet you have nothing to stand on. Either my guess is you are just trolling or you are an idiot. One of the two.
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    Post  Rpg type 7v on Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:32 pm

    Putin was talking about new systems to be integrated, they werent used in exercises !
    Read victors post above me...It will take time to get more info from ashuluk but s-300 missed 2/11.
    About nakhodka and s-400, that is in far east correct , just east of Vladivostok , im sure it covers whole sakhalin ,but what about kuril islands?
    There is no need for insults ....
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    Post  medo on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:16 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Rpg type 7v wrote:http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20130531/181444491/Recent-Aerospace-Defense-Drills-Satisfactory--Putin.html
    i would say dissapointing No
    only 9 out of 11 target were hit. dunno
    i would say s-300 even by trained russian crews has flopped and failed.
    we can only imagine how easy it will be for israel to obliterate it with pathetic syrian crews...

    It had nothing to do with the S-300. It had to do with the piss-poor management of the comanding officers using the C&C equipment. Anyway, even in US exercises, they do not get 100%, which is understandable as it is impossible to have 100% anyway.

    Don't even know what you are ranting about.

    I know those problems with C & C. C4I complexes in IADS are also dependent on their crews skills. Those command posts are responsible on target delivery to their subordinate units. When they are not very familiar with new equipment, they often deliver targets too late and the target is missed or missile is not launched.
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    Post  SOC on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:42 pm

    Rpg type 7v wrote:About nakhodka and s-400, that is in far east correct , just east of Vladivostok , im sure it covers whole sakhalin ,but what about kuril islands?

    Doesn't cover either of those. Both of them are too far away, even for the 400 km 40N6.
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    Post  Arrow on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:48 pm

    What about 40N6 missile?
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    Post  Viktor on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:55 pm

    Arrow wrote:What about 40N6 missile?

    Perhaps they may release some info on MAKS 2013. So far we know nothing about 40N6 and 9M96 line. All of them are according to last

    reports still on testing.
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    Post  SOC on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:57 pm

    Arrow wrote:What about 40N6 missile?

    What about it? Draw a 400 km circle around the Nakhodka battery in Google Earth and you'll see that it's lacking the range and is out of position anyway to defend either Sakhalin or the Kuriles. Plus the distances involved mean one battery isn't covering everything anyway.

    Viktor wrote:So far we know nothing about 40N6 and 9M96 line. All of them are according to last reports still on testing.

    40N6 supposedly completed testing in mid-2012.
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    Post  Viktor on Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:18 pm

    SOC wrote:
    Viktor wrote:So far we know nothing about 40N6 and 9M96 line. All of them are according to last reports still on testing.

    40N6 supposedly completed testing in mid-2012.

    Most likely being tested by Russian PVO now. I think we would have known by now if 40N6 had entered service within S-400 system.

    Almaz-Antej did not mentioned 40N6 it in its 2012 report (which is good) but it did mentioned working on modernized S-400.
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    Post  SOC on Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:28 pm

    Last news bit I saw said the 40N6 was done with all trials in 2012, with production cleared to begin and service entry theorized for some point in 2013.

    http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20120628/174293966.html

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