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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

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    kvs
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  kvs on Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:52 am

    higurashihougi wrote:Porkie: step by step "we" will sell Ukraine to the West just like Asswenuts has been doing pwnd pwnd

    http://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/32970.html

    President at the meeting with pupils on the Day of Children's Protection: Step by step we should build a European Ukraine silent  silent

    Okay so basically the current Ukraine is not in European continent and so Porkie is planning to use child labour to create some sort of European Ukraine... wonder which kinds of land will he take, some where in France or Germany, or UK ?

    A lot of Ukrainians, including my relatives, need to feel the full effect of their choices on their own hides before
    they wake up. This is actually the main reason Russia should not invade to "save them". They will just hate
    Russia for depriving them of their EU dream.

    higurashihougi
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  higurashihougi on Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:10 am

    Actually I support Porkie's plan building of European Ukraine... let's grab some lands of Poland, France, UK,... and create a European Ukrainie Twisted Evil the current Ukraine will be Asian Ukraine or Russian Ukraine or whatever Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

    Actually I want some Vietnamese Ukraine, too Twisted Evil my Vietnamese fellows in there need some space for them to peacefully live without the threat of White House war Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

    auslander
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  auslander on Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:16 am

    Today is the one year anniversary of the Sukhoi attack on City Administration Building in Lugansk. Here is the article my close comrade 'Juan' wrote the day after on Saker. It still holds true today, one year later. The video links have been removed, the videos are quite graphic and not for women or children.

    Russians are sub-humans in the eyes of the West
    1117 Views
    June 03, 2014
     90 Comments

    by “Juan”

    Untermenschen. That is what we are in the eyes of The West. Untermenschen. Subhumans.

    I have watched the unfolding coup d’etat in Ukraine from it’s very beginning in late November 2013 in Kiev. I have watched a steady stream of western dignitaries and politicians parade through Maidan Square in Kiev, each and every one of them publicly and vocally expressing their open support of the coup d’etat. I find it appalling that the sitting ambassador of the United States of America to the Sovereign Country of Ukraine, Geoffrey R. Pyatt, actively and publicly supported a violent coup d’etat against the sitting and legally elected government of Ukraine and to this day actively and publicly expresses open support for the illegal coup d’etat installed government in Kiev.

    On 01 December 2013 my wife and I watched the Right Sector and Svoboda Party operatives attempt to take the Presidential Administration Building on Bankhova Street in Kiev under the active and visible command of Vitaly Klitchko and Petro Poroshenko, two sitting deputats of the Ukraine Rada (parliament). After that 3 hour riot ended with Bankhova Street being finally cleared by Berkut riot police who were under orders to not go beyond the end of Bankhova Street, I told my wife President Yanukovich would lose against the coup d’etat. She told me I was crazy. 2 1/2 months later we were shoveling sand in to bags in the middle of the night at the new block post just above Belbek Aerodrome as our Self Defense Forces in Sevastopol and Krimea built and manned block posts at the Krim/Ukraine border and the 5 roads in to Sevastopol. The victors of the Maidan coup d’etat, Oleg Tyagnibok (a sitting deputat of Ukraine Rada) and Dmitro Yarush, leaders of Svoboda Party and Right Sector Party respectively, had stated, during a live interview on Channel 5 TV in Kiev on 27 February 2014, that they were going to lead their combined 5500 fighters from Miadan down to Krim and Sevastopol and ‘kill every Russian there’ combined with ‘we will put every Russian in Krim to the knife’. We took them seriously and we knew they were heavily armed with AK 47’s and RPGs, clearly seen in videos of the end and aftermath of the coup in Maidan. Those first two days and nights on the barricades we had only clubs for most of us.

    Long story short, we seized our two governments from the Kiev appointed administrators, formed new governments for Sevastopol and the Autonomous Republic of Krimea and shortly thereafter activated a treaty signed with Russia in 1993 wherein Russia guaranteed the safety of the Autonomous Republic of Krimea and the City of Sevastopol. Russia honored that treaty and 3 days later the Russian Army arrived to protect us from the coup government in Kiev. The screams from The West were heard all the way to Mars. The screams were heard in the Andromeda Galaxy when we voted to join the Russian Federation and were excepted in to the RF.

    Shortly after the coup d’etat in Kiev several eastern and southern oblasti (districts) in Ukraine expressed dissatisfaction with the ‘new’ illegal government installed in Kiev. Right Sector operatives immediately began to infiltrate in to those oblasti. Demonstrations turned sometimes violent and people died.

    On 02 May there was a football match in Odessa on the south coast of Ukraine. We all know what happened in Odessa with the massacre of the anti Kiev demonstrators, unarmed demonstrators, in and around the Labor Union Building in Odessa as they were beaten, shot and burned to death. What you don’t know is the true number of dead that day and evening. 297 anti Kiev demonstrators AND innocents died that day. Over 50 were in hospital. Some of those who jumped from the entrance hall stairway at the fourth and fifth floor levels were beaten to death as they lay on the ground. Others were made to crawl away, severely injured, and were kicked and beaten as they crawled to the pile of wounded.

    To this day not a single western government that I am aware of has expressed the slightest sympathy or condolences for any of the wounded or dead in Odessa. The overriding comments from what little was said about Odessa in The West was the fact that the ‘anti kiev activists and agents’ accidently set the building on fire as they were throwing molotov cocktails at the football fans around the building. Why should they care? After all, the men, women, and yes, two children, who died in the massacre are Untermenschen. WE are Untermenschen.

    In the weeks before and after the massacre in Odessa the situation came to a head in Donetsk Oblast and Lugansk Oblast. Both declared their indendence from Ukraine and set up their own governments. The West screamed bloody murder as they are wont to do with their double standard and blamed everything on Russia and Mr. Putin including the drought in Mexico and the outbreak of teenaged acne in Australia.

    The two oblasti set up self defense units as Kiev mobilized their army and formed a large ‘national guard’ unit from Right Sector fighters from Maidan and western and central Ukraine. On 9 May there was a massacre in the city of Mariupol in Donetsk Oblast, now the Donbas Peoples Republic. Over 100 unarmed citizens and Militsiya (police) were shot down, often right on live camera. Yes, many of the citizens were screaming great obscenities at the Right Sector unit that entered the city. The police where slaughtered in their headquarters for being ‘disloyal’ to Kiev Government. Some were burned alive, handcuffed, in the police headquarters as it was burned by the Right Sector unit.

    To this day not a single western government that I am aware of has expressed the slightest sympathy or expressed condolences for the murdered men and women in Mariupol. After all, the dead citizens are Untermenschen. WE are Untermenschen.

    In the following days and weeks the Ukraine Army began to bombard villages, towns and cities starting with Slavyansk in Donbas. The first ‘bombardment’ was one single 82mm mortar round. With no reaction from either The West or Russia, the next day a heavy bombardment ocurred. In the days after the first heavy bombardments the toll of wounded, dead, maimed civilians mounted as the artillery was fired at patently civilian areas, we call them ‘living areas’. Over 100 civilians have died in the last two weeks. A like number were wounded.

    To this day not a single western government that I am aware of has expressed the slightest sympathy or expressed condolences for the murdered men and women and children in Donbas nor has a single western government asked Kiev to cease the bombardments. After all, the dead citizens are Untermenschen. WE are Untermenschen.

    Yesterday, 02 June 2014, shortly after noon local time there was an attack on the Lugansk City Administration Building in the center of Lugansk by a single Ukrainian Air Force Sukhoi 25 ground attack airplane. He fired a single volley of missiles at the front of the building. Yes, the building is the titular headquarters of Donbas Republic but 95% of the offices and workers in that building are city administration workers, civilians doing their work for the citizens of Lugansk and most of whom have worked there for years. Ukraine well knew that fact and attacked. The impact of the rockets are well documented in many videos extant on the internet as is the aftermath as the area is being policed up and the fire in the one burning office on the fourth floor is extinguished.

    The first two attached videos are of the area immediately after the attack. They are graphic to an extreme and are not for those with a weak stomach. The woman in the red blouse with her dying breaths asks “Excuse me please, give me a telephone.” Those words are an exact translation, she did say ‘Excuse me please’ before she requested the phone. The young man in the park whom they start CPR on died. The old man lying face down in the street is dead. The man face up with his head on a tyre died. The four women at the base of the entrance steps, three died instantly and the fourth, the lady with the red blouse, died in moments after her request. The man screaming as he takes the video of the carnage is screaming ‘sookhie’. ‘Sookha’, singular, and ‘sookhie’, plural, is the Russian word for a female dog. Like in English, in Russian it also has the second meaning, as in bitch. Here it’s fighting words.

    The west media did mention this senseless slaughter after a fashion. They said in their very few ‘articles’ yesterday refering to this slaughter that the ‘terrorists and rebels of the Donbas Army fired a Manpad that accidently hit the building’. This in spite of dozens of videos showing the missiles impacting in the park in front of the building and walking right up to the base and front facade of the building and the death and destruction in the park and in front of the building. Even the much vaunted BBC told the Manpad story.

    The third video is of the artillery bombardment of Slavyansk at dawn and shortly after today, 03 June 2014. I do not know of the extent of the civilian casualties this morning in Slavyansk but I do know one 9 story flats building was hit square on the roof and was burning as of 06:00 local time as are other structures in Slavyansk.

    Videos

    To this moment not a single western government or government official that I know of has expressed either sympathy or condolences for these dead civilians nor have any of them asked Kiev to cease these terror attacks. After all, the dead citizens are Untermenschen. WE are Untermenschen.

    I urge you all, each and every one of you, to flood your embassies, your ambassadors, your politicians, your presidents, your prime ministers, every government functionary you can find, with these videos. Perhaps their army of minions will not be able to stop all from getting through to them. Use email, use facebook, use twitter, use whatever you can. Show them WHAT THEY DID. Not that they will care. After all, we are Untermenschen.

    But one thing they should understand. We, the Untermenschen, will fight them. Ukraine died in Odessa on 02 May 2014. Any chance of negotiations about Donbas died on 09 May 2014 in Mariupol. After Lugansk yesterday it will be a fight to the death. We will win. We Untermenschen will defeat you. We have no choice. We will fight you to our last breath and die fighting before we kneel in subservience to a single one of you.

    For you politicians behind the coup d’etat in Kiev and the war against the citizens of Ukraine, you disgust me. I have only this to say to Merkel, Torchinov, Poroshenko, Holland, Cameron. Swift Boat John, Nuland and Obama, whoever the ‘president’ of poland is, each and every one of you, your minions and hangers on, the west politicians, ALL of you.

    Damn your eyes, damn your souls, damn you to Hell, back to where you came from. You are beneath contempt.

    TheArmenian
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:48 am

    Look what has appeared in this popular blob from Armenia: The Battle for Novorossiya
    Very interesting read.


    www.theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/



    higurashihougi
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  higurashihougi on Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:57 am

    Uh huh, so the civilized Western factories cannot manufacture a proper aerospace rocket engine and still use old-man Soyuz and Proton from "subhuman" Russia. Civilized Boeing still ask "subhuman" Russia to do the titanium parts for them. Civilized GM still cooperates with "subhuman" Avtomaz to produce cars and etc. Civilized France and Japan still buy steel parts from "subhuman" Russia. Civilized United States bought guns and aircrafts from "subhuman" Russia to equip its allies in the Middle East. Civilized Seawolf cannot outrun the "subhuman" Akula. Civilized LRASM can only fly at subsonic speed while "subhuman" Russian cruise missle can fly at supersonic speed and can choose cunning trajectory to avoid radar.

    All these things really tempt me to join the "subhuman" side rather than "civilized world".

    Erk
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Erk on Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:31 am


    George Soros advocates EU financial aid and military assistance to Ukraine to restore Kiev’s fighting capacity without violating the Minsk peace deal, claim anti-Kiev hackers citing leaked emails between the billionaire and Ukraine’s president.

    The hacking group CyberBerkut claims it has penetrated Ukraine’s presidential administration website and obtained correspondence between Soros and Ukraine’s President Petro Poroshenko.

    The hacktivists have published three files online, which include a draft of “A short and medium term comprehensive strategy for the new Ukraine” by Soros (dated March 12, 2015); an undated paper on military assistance to Kiev; and the billionaire’s letter to Poroshenko and Ukraine’s Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk, dated December 23, 2014.

    According to the leaked documents, Soros supports Barack Obama’s stance on Ukraine, but believes that the US should do even more.

    He is confident that the US should provide Ukraine with lethal military assistance, “with same level of sophistication in defense weapons to match the level of opposing force.”

    “In poker terms, the US will ‘meet, but not raise,” the 84-year-old businessman explained, supposedly signing one of the letters as “a self-appointed advocate of the new Ukraine.”

    http://rt.com/news/264037-soros-ukraine-poroshenko-leak/

    I am surprised he made it to age 84 with some of the things he does.


    Last edited by Erk on Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:44 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : fix typo in URL)

    whir
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  whir on Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:49 am

    BBC wrote:Georgia ex-leader Saakashvili gives up citizenship for Ukraine
    1 June 2015 Europe

    Georgian ex-President Mikheil Saakashvili says he is giving up Georgian citizenship as he becomes governor of Ukraine's Odessa region.

    Mr Saakashvili told the BBC a Georgian passport meant "guaranteed imprisonment" there as the authorities pursued criminal charges against him.

    The ex-leader was appointed unexpectedly by Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko on Saturday.

    He is credited with radical reforms in Georgia but accused of abuse of power.

    Mr Saakashvili left Georgia after his term as president ended in 2013. He denies the charges against him, which he says are politically motivated.

    The former president, who has been granted Ukrainian citizenship, speaks basic Ukrainian and was recently said to have sung the national anthem with a group of Odessa schoolchildren. Continue reading.

    TASS wrote:Saakashvili as governor of Ukraine’s Odessa region may put fuse to Dniester powder keg
    June 01, 17:59 UTC+3

    MOSCOW, June 1. /TASS/. Kiev’s decision to appoint former Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili as governor of the Odessa Region was surely a US-approved move and may have a variety of far-reaching implications, both internal and external ones. For one, it may cause the smoldering conflict in Transdniestria to flare up with renewed force, Russian experts believe.

    Last Saturday Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko declared he had made Mikheil Saakashvili the new governor of the Odessa Region.
    Saakashvili fled Georgia after his successor, Georgy Margvelashvili, took office in November 2013. The Georgian Prosecutor’s Office charged him in absentia under several articles of the Criminal Code, embezzlement of five million dollars of government money being one of the accusations. Later, he was put on Georgia’s wanted list.

    The deputy dean of the world economy and world politics department, Andrey Suzdaltsev, points to several factors behind Saakashvili’s appointment.

    "The region’s governor from the clan of disfavoured big business tycoon Igor Kolomoisky had to be replaced fast, but no suitable substitute was at hand at the moment. Good managers are many, but each belongs to this or that clan. In the meantime, Poroshenko is forming a clan of his own," Suzdaltsev told TASS. Continue reading.

    TASS wrote:Militia claim Ukrainian soldiers laying mines near Stanitsa Luganskaya
    June 01, 21:00 UTC+3

    It's being done to prevent people from leaving or entering the village using bypass routes

    MOSCOW, June 1. /TASS/. Ukrainian servicemen are reinforcing the blockade of the self-proclaimed Luhansk People’s Republic (LPR), laying minefields near the Kiev-controlled Stanitsa Luganskaya locality and along the Seversky Donets River, which has already claimed lives, a spokesman for the LPR People’s Militia said Monday.

    "After [head of the military-civil administration of the Luhansk Region Gennady] Moskal closed for two months the checkpoint to Stanitsa [Luganskaya], people have been trying to leave the locality or enter it using bypass routes. To prevent that, Ukrainian soldiers have started actively laying mines at all available entrances to Stanitsa," LuganskInformCenter quoted the spokesman as saying.

    "At some sections," according to People’s Militia data, "the servicemen are mounting barbed wire for people to be unable to leave the inhabited locality."
    "Three people, according to our information, were blown up on a tripwire on the outskirts of Stanitsa, near the Seversky Donets River, last Sunday. Two of them died," the spokesman said. Continue reading.

    KomissarBojanchev
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:41 am

    Why is this BS that it was a Su25 that only couldve shot down mh17 being peddled? With this crap the prodonbass narrative is shooting itself in the foot. Why isnt it cl
    aimed that i was mig29 or su27, which are far more likely to have done it? The ukrops had them,they used them, and could hide themselves from foreign radar if necessary.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:01 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Why is this BS that it was a Su25 that only couldve shot down mh17 being peddled? With this crap the prodonbass narrative is shooting itself in the foot. Why isnt it cl
    aimed that i was mig29 or su27, which are far more likely to have done it? The ukrops had them,they used them,  and could hide themselves from foreign radar if necessary.

    What propaganda nonsense have you consumed to believe the Su-25 can not shoot down aircrafts? It can fly up to 12km altitude with minimal load (gun ammunition+ATAM+fuel).


    higurashihougi
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  higurashihougi on Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:02 am

    @whir: Some of my friends went in a full LOL after reading this.

    In a BBC interview, Mr Saakashvili said he could not currently go back home. "The reality is for me today that the Georgian passport means guaranteed imprisonment for me in Georgia," he said.

    ===========
    ===========

    George Soros advocates EU financial aid and military assistance to Ukraine to restore Kiev’s fighting capacity without violating the Minsk peace deal, claim anti-Kiev hackers citing leaked emails between the billionaire and Ukraine’s president.

    "without violating the Minsk peace deal" ? How ? The Kyiv facist has already violated it many times.

    zepia
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  zepia on Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:21 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Why is this BS that it was a Su25 that only couldve shot down mh17 being peddled? With this crap the prodonbass narrative is shooting itself in the foot. Why isnt it claimed that i was mig29 or su27, which are far more likely to have done it? The ukrops had them,they used them,  and could hide themselves from foreign radar if necessary.


    @15.23
    "The instructions say 7,000m is maximum altitude due to crew conditions.
    It's the only military plane without sealed cabin.
    But the plane itself can fly at 10, 11 or even 12 km."

    Erk
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Erk on Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:22 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Why is this BS that it was a Su25 that only couldve shot down mh17 being peddled? With this crap the prodonbass narrative is shooting itself in the foot. Why isnt it cl
    aimed that i was mig29 or su27, which are far more likely to have done it? The ukrops had them,they used them,  and could hide themselves from foreign radar if necessary.
    Rostov radar said they saw what they believed to be Su 25 signatures tailing MH17. The public then assumed that the fighters shot down MH17 however the radar couldn't tell that, Rostov noted that MH17 broke up in the air. It could have easily have been a SAM, just because fighters were following the flight doesn't automatically make them the cause. Residents on a BBC interview confirmed seeing jet fighters in the area shortly after the MH17 crash. Until weapon fragments are identified it's all a guessing game, even then for political reasons we may not get a truthful report from the investigation, I say this because of the non-disclosure agreements the countries participating in the investigation had to sign, that is very suspicious. At any rate they said about 12mths for the report so that's not too far off. We have waited almost 11mths.



    KoTeMoRe
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:03 pm

    kvs wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    Viktor wrote:Nazi junta does what it knows best - 10% GDP decline for 2015  thumbsup

    The IMF downgraded the forecast decline in GDP of Ukraine


    These forecasts are ludicrous.   Ukraine's official GDP shrank by 17.6% in the first quarter of 2015.  The
    decline has accelerated from late last year.   In order for it to only fall by 10% it must actually grow in the second
    half of this year.   Does anyone here believe that there will be any growth in Ukraine in 2015?   Seriously, these
    forecasts are politically motivate trash.

    No, it shrank 17.6% year-on-year in the first quarter.

    Basically that means, that if it has another 3 quarters like that - then it would have shrunk by 17.6% this year.

    In absolute terms it's only a 17.6/4 = 4.4% GDP decline in Q1.

    You are sadly mistaken.   There was a 17.6% year on year GDP decline.   GDP growth or decline is compared
    against the same quarter of the previous year and your example is not correct.  


    There is still plenty of time to arrest it. But that would require, you know, a couple dozen billion dollars from the West maybe - and that's just to start with.
    10% is a highly optimistic forecast, but it's quite possible - if theoretically the rate of GDP decline drastically slows over the next 2-3 quarters.

    No, there is not going to be any escape from that hole this year.   There will be a decline in the rate of decline as we approach
    the 4th quarter since the 4th quarter of 2014 was already down.   But the net GDP drop for 2015 will be over 20%.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/ukraines-gdp-falls-176-in-first-quarter-of-2015-2015-5

    There is no division by 4 for year on year comparisons.   It is a straight comparison of the GDP curve with the same period
    of the previous year.  

    http://useconomy.about.com/od/glossary/g/year_over_year.htm

    That 17.6 fall indeed is quarterly and it doesn't mean anything until the nominal numbers are out. Don't forget this is in UAH, so the reality is even worse. UAH/USD value having halved YoY, this is entirely normal. What is required first and foremost is to choke the UA's options to wage war. Refuse payment reschedule, refuse private debt default and make sure UA's cost of living skyrockets. I feel dirty advocating this, but enough is enough, these guys want to play ball, Russia should take them literally.

    Flagship Victory
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Flagship Victory on Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:10 pm

    Maidan seals off Novorossiya

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/zik-lutsenko-says-rebel-held-territories-in-donbas-to-be-sealed-off-390051.html

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Khepesh on Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:22 pm

    Apparently Kiev has moved forces to the border with Transnistria. These are forces deployed into the field, not simply barracks near the border, and they do not even seem to offer as explanation the weak excuse used a few days back of "anti-terror" training.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Ghoster on Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:39 pm

    censor.net.ua wrote:01/06/15 21:41
    In Talakovke 3 Ukrainian military killed a man, arranging a lynching, - the head of Donetsk AMIA Abroskin

    Three Ukrainian military who have committed murder resident of Sartan on May 8 in the village Talakovka Donetsk region, decided to make lynching.

    This was stated by the head of the Interior Ministry of Ukraine in Donetsk region Vyacheslav Abroskin transmits censor.NET , referring to the publication of "0629".

    "They decided that they in one court and performers," - said Abroskin.

    Note that local residents reported that a man had killed the pro-Russian political views.

    Who is guilty of the military arrested, police opened criminal proceedings under Part 2 of Article 121 "Premeditated grievous bodily harm committed by a group of persons, as well as the one that caused the victim's death" of the Criminal Code of Ukraine. This article provides for a sentence of 10 years in prison.

    sepheronx
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:41 pm

    Khepesh wrote:Apparently Kiev has moved forces to the border with Transnistria. These are forces deployed into the field, not simply barracks near the border, and they do not even seem to offer as explanation the weak excuse used a few days back of "anti-terror" training.

    Hopefully that location will be Kievs grave.

    At least Russia has men and equipment there.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:42 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Why is this BS that it was a Su25 that only couldve shot down mh17 being peddled? With this crap the prodonbass narrative is shooting itself in the foot. Why isnt it cl
    aimed that i was mig29 or su27, which are far more likely to have done it? The ukrops had them,they used them,  and could hide themselves from foreign radar if necessary.

    Because it's all just wild arm-flailing contradictory BS and flooding of the info-space with crackpot theories and disinformation - in order to divert and confuse public attention from what is the most-likely explanation and always has been - that MH17 was shot-down by a rebel Buk system which thought that it was shooting down yet another Ukrainian transport aircraft.
    Everything after that has just been various forms of damage control.

    I'm sorry but it's the most likely explanation in light of everything we've seen so far.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  onwiththewar on Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:39 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Why is this BS that it was a Su25 that only couldve shot down mh17 being peddled? With this crap the prodonbass narrative is shooting itself in the foot. Why isnt it cl
    aimed that i was mig29 or su27, which are far more likely to have done it? The ukrops had them,they used them,  and could hide themselves from foreign radar if necessary.

    Because it's all just wild arm-flailing contradictory BS and flooding of the info-space with crackpot theories and disinformation - in order to divert and confuse public attention from what is the most-likely explanation and always has been - that MH17 was shot-down by a rebel Buk system which thought that it was shooting down yet another Ukrainian transport aircraft.
    Everything after that has just been various forms of damage control.

    I'm sorry but it's the most likely explanation in light of everything we've seen so far.

    Another Ukrainian transport aircraft? Ukrainian transports were downed by Strelas when they were low near airfields taking off or landing.



    High attitude flying Ukrainian aircrafts were never shot down. There was a Su-27 flying low for the attack run and it was shot down. Then on the next day, other Su-27s flew higher and they were ok.

    The rebels never demonstrated they had anything close to Buk's. The first thing Strelkov said was their weapons can't reach that attitude.

    True we know the rebels were towing away a Ukrainian Buk vehicle as a trophy. But it was smashed from the inside by Ukies before their retreat and the rebels were trying to fix it. Yes we can say they somehow pressed the wrong button and fired it by mistake, but the Buk is a complicated piece of machinery, and it won't hit the target without a radar vehicle next to it let alone being seriously damaged. Of course we can further speculate the rebels had some super expert they short the right circuit and, fixed the whole thing in a matter of days, fired the missile without the radar vehicle and the missile by chance, using its own guidance, hit MF17. We are reaching fantasy land here.

    Of course if you can't tell what's the difference between a Buk and a Strela, or between An-26 and Boeing-777. I'm wasting my time here.

    Why the old Su-25 service ceiling topic again? Upgraded Su-25, 4 x Su-25M1 or 1 x Su-25UBM1 Ukies have had no issues reaching 10,000 and stay there.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  whir on Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:34 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Because it's all just wild arm-flailing contradictory BS and flooding of the info-space with crackpot theories and disinformation - in order to divert and confuse public attention from what is the most-likely explanation and always has been - that MH17 was shot-down by a rebel Buk system which thought that it was shooting down yet another Ukrainian transport aircraft.
    Everything after that has just been various forms of damage control.

    I'm sorry but it's the most likely explanation in light of everything we've seen so far.
    Claiming rebel responsibility is not necessarily the most likely explanation but the most convenient because that way all other questions have not to be answered.

    Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 being downed African style by locking SAMs to civilians airliners for practice has practically being forgotten. Avakov's daily claims about VVS bombing runs and downing inside Ukraine followed by BUK deployment against VVS sure helped to create a dangerous paranoia environment that was defused hastily only after the downing.

    And for eccentric claims what about Bundestag claiming AWACS over Romania registered S-125 activity while no BUK signal was detected?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  auslander on Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:10 pm

    Khepesh wrote:Apparently Kiev has moved forces to the border with Transnistria. These are forces deployed into the field, not simply barracks near the border, and they do not even seem to offer as explanation the weak excuse used a few days back of "anti-terror" training.

    That may well explain the rather intense activity in this berg.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Neutrality on Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:17 pm

    I say let them do it so their own sympathizers can see the true intentions of this regime. Except this time Moscow will bomb them into oblivion if they see any sign or attempt at invading Transnistria and debate about who was right and wrong later.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Khepesh on Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:46 pm

    Just some stuff that is circulating that I would like to be true, but know it is unlikely, some very unlikely.
    1 - What remains of the Ukranian navy may not respond to orders from Kiev in the event of military action in Odessa or anywhere in Odessa oblast.
    2 - Elements of UA in and around Odessa city may also not respond to orders from Kiev to engage in military action against either Transnistria or Russian forces. This includes the S-300 batteries remaining silent if ordered to fire on VVS.
    4 - There will be an uprising in Odessa if it is clear that at least some elements of Ukranian forces in and around the city will, if not actively support them, will not act against them.
    5 - If no major fighting has taken place before the MH17 report is published, then it is likely to happen shortly before publication. This is predicated on the report blaming Kiev. If Kiev is responsible, then a major leak of the report before publication could trigger major military action, more as a distraction than anything else, and the west will also need a distraction from any unfavorable report.
    6 - It may be necessary to allow an extreme provocation in Transnistria to happen, and this means a real provocation by Kiev/Washington, not some subterfuge.

    Very likely all nonsense, but it does no harm to think about any possibility so that we can be prepared for any surprises.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  auslander on Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:57 pm

    Neutrality wrote:I say let them do it so their own sympathizers can see the true intentions of this regime. Except this time Moscow will bomb them into oblivion if they see any sign or attempt at invading Transnistria and debate about who was right and wrong later.

    Well, at this time things are still quite active here abouts. I for one hope cooler heads prevail in Orcland but methinks my hopes are misplaced. If they do get stupud it's war.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Khepesh on Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:08 pm

    About MH17. I assume everybody has seen this report from the manufacturers, Almaz-Antey, that if MH17 was shot down by BUK, then it could only be by BUK-M1 that Russian does not have. http://rt.com/news/264205-buk-manufacturer-mh17-ukraine/
    Also, many posters here from mp net, so you remember the posts by MSD about the ukrops BUK battery soldier posting location updates on VK as his unit moved from Kharkov to somewhere SE of Ilovaisk by 16 July? Also that the photo of the alleged captured ukrops BUK at metallist was two years old and that not a single photo of this BUK has ever been shown, and why? because it was a wreck and VSN simply wanted ukrops to think they had a working BUK, but that plan has backfired..... Yet even so, nobody seems to remember that even Avakov had publicly stated that the unit at metallist had evacuated before the base was captured and that one unserviceable BUK had been left behind, wrecked.

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